American Politics

[M3J]

When have successful executives with college degrees, retirement funds, homeowners, tvs and timeshares ever been in low brain powered jobs like Mickey D's, these folks would be more likely to be managers or district offices for other companies.The lowest on the ladder I can see them is like general manager at a superstore.

Your situation sounds more fictional and extreme.

No, my situation is not fictional at all. Unlike you, I have experienced real life and know and know of people in such situation. It's a reality.

In high school I worked at a fast food restaurant to appreciate the value of earning ones own money. From my two years there I can assure you that there was no brain power used at the job as everything was follow the books, over the burger stands there is diagrams telling you how to assemble the sandwich, timers go off telling you went fries are done or when the burgers need to be flipped and more. People are just mindless drones there as everything is basically done for them, they just need a person there to actually do the food assembly and burger flipping and such. It also isnt hard or difficult to count money, hand it to people, and put food on a tray and say have a great day. Anyone believing the fiction that working in fast food is hard or difficult is clearly being deluded by the lazy.

The well educated and hard working people who made it up beyond low levels front end drone based jobs deserve more and deserve being paid more. Getting mad at Wall Street executives, who, by the way, help our glorious country run well, are needed and not evil like Sanders keeps wanting to say. Perhaps they are evil if one is from a state in which there is just forest and wilderness and some fishing which provide little to nothing economically for other states.

Whats wrong with going after the lazy, it would help get them from being lazy.

Pretty sure you're lying, and that you never worked in fast food. Even if you did, you probably did anything with cooking.

How do they make our country run well? Many Wall Street executives are part of why our country is economically troubled, especially when they have done horrible things with finances. You seem to have no issues with liars and fraudsters unless you don't like them. I bet you support Bernie Madoff and the way he ruined the lives of so many Americans with the Ponzi scheme. Wall Street executives who commit crimes must pay, and it's good of Sanders to tackle that issue instead of lettin them steal and hurt the country even more. You're a horrible, hypocritical person who enjoys double standards, and it scares me to know there are more people like you that are even worse, whether uneducated and ignorant or clever and ignorant. You also seem to be low brain powered, as indicated by your comments on refugee and rape. Maybe you work in fast food and are angry, so you criticize the fast food workers? That would explain why you have not revealed your job despite me asking many times.

Any proof of this? Calling people who do labor jobs lazy is generally inaccurate and stupid, but that's understandable as you do not know anything about real life or have experience. The more you post, the more I can see why non-Americans dislike Americans.

That doesnt make sense, punishing the hard working and successful is against the core of being American and the American dream. If pay for the lazy goes up then pay for the hard working ought to go way up too. Its only fair.


No, they should instead search for a different job after getting more trained and a good education. You shouldnt be trying to save a retirement fund, pay your kids college tuition fund, and have a Ford Focus, while working at Mickey D's or Walmart. Instead they should be going to school and working to better themselves.

Anyway your point also suggests that people in low pay jobs arent hard working. They are lazy. If the pay is low why would they do a good job? Well the answer is right there. Maybe if they were doing a good job they would be happy with their pay and they would get a quarter raise every now and then?



It doesn't seem like democrats are doing something for people, if they were, then legistlation like the anti-gay/trans laws wouldnt have passed or been on the table.

I don't understand how it's punishing the "hardworking and successful" when they still make enough money to afford whatever they want. No, what you're saying goes against the core of being American and the American Dream - people who work hard, whether in fast food, retail, as a manager, or whatnot, should see their pay go up and should be promoted. There's no such thing as lazy, other than your idiotic perception of it.

once again, you're proving you know nothing about real life. I would say experience real life first before you even think about havin an opinion on people who work labor jobs, because obviously you don't know shit.

Yes, there are people who aren't hardworking and lazy, but that goes for "high brain powered" jobs too. There are many Wall Street executives who are lazy but are benefiting from being wealthy or having good connections. Or, what if people worked hard and went out of their way to deliver great service, but their pay stayed the same and they got ignored, so they started not caring? In real life, people don't always get rewarded for working hard, not as much as people with connections no matter how incompetent they are.

Oh, and don't forget Bill Clinton cutting welfare/reducing it! And if I recall, aren't republicans against same sex marriage and are tryin to get the bill reversed? Do you even care about other homosexuals and transgenders? You made it clear you don't give a shit about anything that doesn't affect you, and that you support Wall Street executives and wealthy people who are criminals. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if you have stolen money or cheated people that you thought/think are poor.

I think there are questions about whether that idea is even legal in the first place. Plus, how do we do that when Trump also wants to deport every illegal immigrant? Not all illegal immigrants are Mexican anyway...and a huge portion of them don't even get here by crossing that border. The Wall isn't going to stop illegals from being inside our borders.

I don't support the wall, and I think it's a stupid ass idea from Trump. I also think anyone who supports it is a dumbfuck. But the main reason we get immigrants, legal or illegal, is because they want to make money for their family, and many of them send that money back home.

 

[SharkBait]

Pretty sure you're lying, and that you never worked in fast food. Even if you did, you probably did anything with cooking.

I served guests and made fries and sometimes did the drive thru.

Maybe you work in fast food and are angry, so you criticize the fast food workers? That would explain why you have not revealed your job despite me asking many times.

Im an Allergy Scientist.

I don't understand how it's punishing the "hardworking and successful" when they still make enough money to afford whatever they want.

They can afford more and buy more, more pay = more purchasing power.

There are many Wall Street executives who are lazy but are benefiting from being wealthy or having good connections. Or, what if people worked hard and went out of their way to deliver great service, but their pay stayed the same and they got ignored, so they started not caring? I

People in the financial sector are hardworking, I don't understand how you get that they are lazy http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rs-fed-up-with-90-hour-weeks-move-to-startups .

Again if people are changing like that due to their job then they need to look at themselves and see tha because they stopped caring they deserve the low pay they are getting.

 

[Dragoon]

... allergy scientist? Use an official title pls. That sounds sooooo much like you just used whatever name came up to you on the spot

 

[M3J]

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-bankers-financial-sector-dishonest-behaviour
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cheating-bankers-20141119-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cheating-bankers-20141119-story.html
https://www.rt.com/business/207175-banking-cheating-financial-gain/

According to these links, many people in the financial sector aren't hardworking, and they prefer to be dishonest, at least when reminded that they're bankers. So, one could conclude they're lazy as they choose to be dishonest.

Pretty sure you're lying about working in fast food, given your comments in this thread. Or you could just be ignorant and blind, given how you defend the financial sector yet accuse the laborers of being lazy or makin bad life decision even though the financial sector's bad decisions have hurt our economy.

Um, you do realize that they can already afford a lot of stuff and have high purchasing power, right? And same can be said about increasing the minimum wage, allows people to afford more stuff and have higher purchasing power, which is good for the economy. Plus, it also helps the children because it means their parents can afford more meals and items like backpacks, school supplies, and whatnot!

To be honest, if I had to deal with people like you at work all day long, I'd stop caring or putting any effort.

 

[SharkBait]

Um, you do realize that they can already afford a lot of stuff and have high purchasing power, right? And same can be said about increasing the minimum wage, allows people to afford more stuff and have higher purchasing power, which is good for the economy. Plus, it also helps the children because it means their parents can afford more meals and items like backpacks, school supplies, and whatnot!

If you have a minimum wage job then I dont think having children was a smart decision. I would also hope a family having children would be in a situation and with a job where they can start a college fund early. You know if we lived i na country in which people actually made good life decisions, minimum wage wouldnt be an issue because there would be so few people opting to check out of the good job market and check into the lazy jobs just to have an easy life.

To be honest, if I had to deal with people like you at work all day long, I'd stop caring or putting any effort.

Why do you always make me seem like a bad person who does unreasonable things. If a person in a retail job is doing a bad job to me then of course they deserve to get no tips or even a thanks or anything in return for their bad performance. They should be glad that I even took the time to come to their place of employment and contribute money to the company that continues to employ them.

Today I went to a local restaurant and ordered a lemonade. The server brought me a water, and forty minutes later had to be reminded that I had ordered a lemonade that she completely forgot about. Whats the point of writing orders down but forgetting drinks and then never asking me if everything was alright or if I had everything? This was just yet another example of why we dont need to pay these people 15$ an hour. If they cant do a simple job like this why should we pay them more?

 

[xi0]

This was just yet another example of why we dont need to pay these people 15$ an hour. If they cant do a simple job like this why should we pay them more?

Why are you using such a broad brush here? What about all of the times you never mention where your service is adequate or excellent? Do those people not deserve a fair wage either?

What about the other people in your field of employment? Do all of them deserve the living they earn? And if they don't, why is there no debate over what they should earn?

 

[SharkBait]

Why are you using such a broad brush here? What about all of the times you never mention where your service is adequate or excellent? Do those people not deserve a fair wage either?

What about the other people in your field of employment? Do all of them deserve the living they earn? And if they don't, why is there no debate over what they should earn?

Yes we all in my field deserve our living as we've gone through the school and earned PhD's to get to where we are. We deserve our pay.

I cant think of a time where fast food or restaurant service has been excellent as there is always something they do wrong, like not refilling drinks on time, leaving bacon off my sandwich, giving lukewarm fries, not saying how am I doing or thanking me for coming or even saying have a good day as I leave the restaurant, the list goes on.

 

[M3J]

If you have a minimum wage job then I dont think having children was a smart decision. I would also hope a family having children would be in a situation and with a job where they can start a college fund early. You know if we lived i na country in which people actually made good life decisions, minimum wage wouldnt be an issue because there would be so few people opting to check out of the good job market and check into the lazy jobs just to have an easy life.

You do realize that there is such thing as life not going as planned? And if you actually got out of your pampered bubble, you'd know that there are people who used to have a good position with a company but got laid off so they have to work in fast food or retail to make ends meet and support their family. There's no such thing as lazy jobs, otherwise a lot of jobs in financial sector can be considered lazy as many people are or prefer to be dishonest, yet you defend these horrible people.

You don't even know what a good or bad life decision is, so it would be better if you did not accuse others of making bad life decision. You really should start living in reality instead of this ignorant bubble you created, and then maybe you'll get a better idea of what middle class and lower actually face. the things you have consistently said in here shows you know absolutely nothing and believe whatever bullshit any republican/conservative-biased sources will tell you. Not only that, but you seem to have so many double standards and are such a hypocrite it's disgusting. You claim fetuses have lives and deserve to live, but you couldn't care less about a child or refugee child who need money or safe asylum for survival.

Given what I have read and heard from others, the likes of baristas and fast food workers are forced to stay in their current role instead of getting better jobs because no matter how many applications they send out, no company will hire them. And as I have mentioned, people who were previously successful in their roles were laid off and either can't get a similar job at all or at the moment, so they're forced to work in labor jobs to make ends meet. There's no such thing as lazy jobs.

Why do you always make me seem like a bad person who does unreasonable things. If a person in a retail job is doing a bad job to me then of course they deserve to get no tips or even a thanks or anything in return for their bad performance. They should be glad that I even took the time to come to their place of employment and contribute money to the company that continues to employ them.

Today I went to a local restaurant and ordered a lemonade. The server brought me a water, and forty minutes later had to be reminded that I had ordered a lemonade that she completely forgot about. Whats the point of writing orders down but forgetting drinks and then never asking me if everything was alright or if I had everything? This was just yet another example of why we dont need to pay these people 15$ an hour. If they cant do a simple job like this why should we pay them more?

Based on what you say in this thread, you seem to be a bad person who supports, does, and would do unreasonable things so you can get wealthier and benefit more. You defending Wall Street executives and people in financial sectors of cheating and embezzling people help prove that, especially when you complained that people in labor jobs made mistakes and didn't deserve pay raise. What if they're having an off day because of someone like you who made fun of them and called them names just because they were doing their job or because the customers were disrespectful? People make mistakes, and unless they're doing it on purpose or constantly make mistakes that cost you money, there's no reason not to tip them. But I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy that a horrible customer came to their place of employment, I know I'm rarely ever happy.

I'm sure you're lying, or you were rude so they "accidentally" forgot to bring you lemonade. Or, what if they were busy or something happened that required immediate attention, and they forgot about it? Did you bother to ask why? It helps to understand another person's point of view. If I'm in a busy restaurant, and they forget my drink, I'm not gonna act like a baby and get mad at them for it. People make mistakes, and at least they got you your lemonade. Have the victims of dishonest financial sector employees ever been compensated? What about the victims of the Ponzi scheme who lost all their live savings?

One person does not equal they.

 

[xi0]

Yes we all in my field deserve our living as we've gone through the school and earned PhD's to get to where we are. We deserve our pay.

So then because someone has a PhD they all deserve the wage they have? How good someone is at his/her job makes no difference? So then why don't you apply that same logic to minimum wage jobs? An investment of time/money into having a college degree can't be the sole determining factor in whether someone deserves the wage they get. Plenty of college graduates get fired for being shit at their jobs.

 

[SharkBait]

So then because someone has a PhD they all deserve the wage they have? How good someone is at his/her job makes no difference? So then why don't you apply that same logic to minimum wage jobs? An investment of time/money into having a college degree can't be the sole determining factor in whether someone deserves the wage they get. Plenty of college graduates get fired for being shit at their jobs.

I dont understand that logic. Why should the lower brain powered jobs or rather the lesser trained and lesser specialized jobs get higher wage than they are getting? More training and specialization ought to be why we are paid more. Pay is assessed on the difficulty of work, minimum wage jobs have little to no difficulty, meanwhile you higher brain powered jobs are heavily difficult. You cant just take a cashier at Mickey Ds or a waiter at a local mom & pop restaurant and put them into a research scientist position at Astrazeneca and expect them to craft a goal and carry out the mission of this company in their lab. It takes years and years of training to do that, meanwhile the training to work as a waiter or a job at Mickey D's takes what two or three hours at most.

I think education and training as well as to some extent necessity of that job and its usefulness to society ought to be the determining factors of the wage of the job.

 

[xi0]

It takes years and years of training to do that, meanwhile the training to work as a waiter or a job at Mickey D's takes what two or three hours at most.

You've missed my point. On the one hand, you say fast food workers don't deserve to make more money because of your supposed bad experiences. While you also say that you or any of your peers deserve to be paid more solely based on the fact they have a degree, not whether they're good at their job or not. You apparently don't give a shit about the hard workers in the service industry solely because you've had bad service, but you think anyone who graduates college has a right to a certain amount of pay, irrespective of their performance. When you couple this line of thinking as well as calling anyone who works in the service industry "lazy" you're being nothing but an elitist and display a strong lack of empathy.

As an example, if someone at McDonald's was forced to pay people a higher wage, maybe they'd care more about who they hire and their training rather than just getting warm bodies to put in uniforms. Higher pay also has strong correlation to employee happiness, which almost always results in increased productivity. It's common sense.

 

[kkck]

A minimum wage in the end is merely a baseline for poverty.... It's not like making the minimum wage of 12 or 15 dollars and hour will make people at those jobs suddenly not be poor or take away their motivation to look for greater opportunities. The people making those wages will still be poor. They will be less poor, but poor still. If anything a greater wage would give people the chance to actually do the stuff sharkbait says people should be doing as correct life decisions such as getting more skills and education (lets be realistic, even on 15/hour it would difficult to pay for an education at the US).

 

[SharkBait]

You've missed my point. On the one hand, you say fast food workers don't deserve to make more money because of your supposed bad experiences. While you also say that you or any of your peers deserve to be paid more solely based on the fact they have a degree, not whether they're good at their job or not. You apparently don't give a shit about the hard workers in the service industry solely because you've had bad service, but you think anyone who graduates college has a right to a certain amount of pay, irrespective of their performance. When you couple this line of thinking as well as calling anyone who works in the service industry "lazy" you're being nothing but an elitist and display a strong lack of empathy.

If the bad experiences could be eliminated from the minimum wage jobs then I think I would be willing to support legislature that would allow increased wages. Should it be as high as $15 with no degree? Im not ready to go that far as that would imply these people at this minimum wage jobs are giving constant and consistent outstanding service. It is hard to imagine that is ever the case.

I dont understand your elistist line, isnt it realistic that people who have degrees deserve more pay? It also isnt like fresh out of college hires are going to have as good as performance as people whove been employed for years.

It's not like making the minimum wage of 12 or 15 dollars and hour will make people at those jobs suddenly not be poor or take away their motivation to look for greater opportunities.

Thats doubtful, people already work at minimum wage jobs upwards of 10, 20, even 30 years. Even if pay was increased they will just keep at these jobs and never move on.

-

Increasing minimum wage would only be acceptable, outside of the case I described, if everyone across the board experienced the same percentage of increased wage. Its only fair. If an $8 an hour job became a $15 an hour job, then I would expect $75*, or $150 an hour jobs to get the same multiplyer to their jobs (1.875) so $75 -> $140 an hour, $150 -> $281.

*75$ an hour job is a salary of around $150K.

 

[kkck]

Thats doubtful, people already work at minimum wage jobs upwards of 10, 20, even 30 years. Even if pay was increased they will just keep at these jobs and never move on.


Increasing minimum wage would only be acceptable, outside of the case I described, if everyone across the board experienced the same percentage of increased wage. Its only fair. If an $8 an hour job became a $15 an hour job, then I would expect $75*, or $150 an hour jobs to get the same multiplyer to their jobs (1.875) so $75 -> $140 an hour, $150 -> $281.

*75$ an hour job is a salary of around $150K.

Even if that was correct (which it isn't), that is not a bad thing. Society needs people to do minimum wage jobs, the US literally can't do without them. We know crushing poverty only breeds poverty, giving people a living wage would only help people be in the competition to improve their lives.

As for your second paragraph, that is just plain and objectively moronic.

 

[M3J]

Yes we all in my field deserve our living as we've gone through the school and earned PhD's to get to where we are. We deserve our pay.

I cant think of a time where fast food or restaurant service has been excellent as there is always something they do wrong, like not refilling drinks on time, leaving bacon off my sandwich, giving lukewarm fries, not saying how am I doing or thanking me for coming or even saying have a good day as I leave the restaurant, the list goes on.

Do you really deserve your pay if you haven't made any new discovery or found anything new? If you haven't discovered anything new or anything, that would make you lazy and not deserving high pay. Goin through school doesn't mean you deserve high pay, otherwise you agree that a person with PhD who works in fast food deserves high pay. And yes, such case does exist, but I don't expect a person living in a bubble to understand that.

You must go to the wrong place or cause somethin that results in you getting poor service. At least 90% of the time I've received good service from fast food or restaurant, stemming from speed, going out of the way to help me efficiently, or whatever else. Maybe they have a "bad customer" radar that goes off and don't want to please you because they anticipate you will talk shit about them even if they go way out of their way to provide excellent service.If you're not lying about receiving bad service all the time, there's something wrong with your choice or with you. Or maybe your state is just full of incompetent people, who knows?

A minimum wage in the end is merely a baseline for poverty.... It's not like making the minimum wage of 12 or 15 dollars and hour will make people at those jobs suddenly not be poor or take away their motivation to look for greater opportunities. The people making those wages will still be poor. They will be less poor, but poor still. If anything a greater wage would give people the chance to actually do the stuff sharkbait says people should be doing as correct life decisions such as getting more skills and education (lets be realistic, even on 15/hour it would difficult to pay for an education at the US).

That sort of common sense does not exist amongst republicans/conservatives. It's pretty obvious higher wage would give people more utility to make better life choices and help the economy out, yet he prefers not to do so, and he prefers criminals in financial sector get more money. I don't think Sharkbait has replied to my links proving that people who work in the financial sector are/can be dishonest and cause more damage than fast food workers who don't refill people's cups or something.

Given what the links say about the financial sector workers, it would be safe to assume they're lazy by Sharkbait's logic, yet Sharkbait will likely give them a pass.

If the bad experiences could be eliminated from the minimum wage jobs then I think I would be willing to support legislature that would allow increased wages. Should it be as high as $15 with no degree? Im not ready to go that far as that would imply these people at this minimum wage jobs are giving constant and consistent outstanding service. It is hard to imagine that is ever the case.

I dont understand your elistist line, isnt it realistic that people who have degrees deserve more pay? It also isnt like fresh out of college hires are going to have as good as performance as people whove been employed for years.

People who have degrees don't deserve more pay. People who work hard at their job deserve more pay. If kkck puts in 120% effort at his fast food job and is efficient despite not having a degree, he deserves more money than you in the same position, regardless of your PhD degree, when you put in 25% effort and constantly screw up. This is an example. Hell, your pay at your current position seems too high for you, given you don't know what refugee means, and you claim birth control can prevent pregnancy after rapes.

Thats doubtful, people already work at minimum wage jobs upwards of 10, 20, even 30 years. Even if pay was increased they will just keep at these jobs and never move on.

According to? Tons of people would quickly move on to a better job in their field if they could, even if minimum wage jobs paid more. Majority are not happy working minimum wage jobs, but they have no choice.

But you seem to have little to no sources for most things you say. You still haven't provided any proof that refugee children are security liability. And apparently, the French government said that the Syrian passports were fake, that the terrorists didn't come from Syria.



Also, unrelated to current discussions but on topic


Dunno how true this is, but if it is 100% true, it just makes Bernie a better choice.

 

[SharkBait]

Sanders lies and is not to be trusted. Earlier this week he called Hillary Clinton unqualified, now just mere days later he is back to calling her qualified. Can he stick to one story please.

 

[xi0]

I understand that supposedly no president has apologized for slavery, but what's the point of it if there aren't any reparations? Nice gesture, but seems like a waste of time.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2016 ---

I dont understand your elistist line, isnt it realistic that people who have degrees deserve more pay? It also isnt like fresh out of college hires are going to have as good as performance as people whove been employed for years.

No one who is shit at their job deserves to be paid, regardless of what qualifications they have or how much time and money they've spent earning those qualifications. Perhaps someone being paid a fair wage could change that for some minimum wage workers, but if keeping corporate greed sated is more important to you than finding out just because someone forgot your lemonade, looked at you the wrong way, or you didn't like their tone, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[M3J]

Sanders lies and is not to be trusted. Earlier this week he called Hillary Clinton unqualified, now just mere days later he is back to calling her qualified. Can he stick to one story please.

That's not lying, that's backtracking. Hillary, Cruz, Trump, and so many other politicians lie and backtrack, but Bernie hasn't lied as far as I know. Why not point out Trump and Rubio doin the same thing, at least back when Rubio was running? Hillary backtracked many times, and it's all thanks to the support Bernie got for being a good human being. She's copying Bernie, it seems.


But Hillary is unqualified, I don't get why Bernie backtracked. Or why he said he will apologize as a president for the country's slave past. That's just unnecessary pandering. if he wants to apologize, then help create better opportunities and safety for blacks who live in bad neighborhoods.

 

[xi0]

But Hillary is unqualified

According to what standard honestly?

 

[M3J]

... good point. We do have plenty of presidents who backtracked, lied, and flip flopped all the time.