American Politics

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Why would that be? Coming from your logic, that would be fine since they are much less in number than the animals we eat, and dead is dead.
Right?
What do you mean? We are tasked with being stewards of the earth so we must take care of Earth and the inhabitants of the Earth. We also have to take care of ourselves, so we eat animals for sustenance. We also breed animals, take care for them, improve their health, and enable them to prosper. We don't completely eat out domesticated animals to extinction and we also keep many for proliferation and some in the wild. Having an animal that has no purpose does not mean we can put animals to fight each other as that is unethical, it has no feasible benefit beyond just hurting the animals. At least in recreational activities like hunting game, the game is eventually ate, and oftentimes it is a result of too many of such an animal in an environment threatening to throw the habitat out of balance so it is a control mechanism as well to make sure animals don't go extinct.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
There's nothing outrageous about preventing abusers from getting their hands on guns. There have been plenty of homicides by guns between couples or former couples. Abusers have proven they cannot be trusted with a weapon designed to kill people, and it's disturbing that you think otherwise.
People can change and be reformed. I also dont see any numbers that suggest that repeat domestic violence abusers repeat it continuously after being convicted, reformed, and released.
 

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What do you mean? We are tasked with being stewards of the earth so we must take care of Earth and the inhabitants of the Earth. We also have to take care of ourselves, so we eat animals for sustenance. We also breed animals, take care for them, improve their health, and enable them to prosper. We don't completely eat out domesticated animals to extinction and we also keep many for proliferation and some in the wild. Having an animal that has no purpose does not mean we can put animals to fight each other as that is unethical, it has no feasible benefit beyond just hurting the animals. At least in recreational activities like hunting game, the game is eventually ate, and oftentimes it is a result of too many of such an animal in an environment threatening to throw the habitat out of balance so it is a control mechanism as well to make sure animals don't go extinct.
we eat animals for our own pleasure, in a world where we would not Need to. To do that, we use a lot of natural ressources we could use elsewhere.
So why not let them fight? It is not more or less unethical.

YOu said reasons dont matter and intentions dont matter and only deaht numbers do.

Either u accept animal fights now or back down from your Claim that car death numbers can be equivalenced with weapon death numbers.
 

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we eat animals for our own pleasure, in a world where we would not Need to. To do that, we use a lot of natural ressources we could use elsewhere.
So why not let them fight? It is not more or less unethical.

YOu said reasons dont matter and intentions dont matter and only deaht numbers do.

Either u accept animal fights nor or back down from your Claim that car death numbers can be equivalenced with weapon death numbers.
I dont need to accept animal fights as we dont live in an Binary (yes or no) type of situation. Practicing moderation enables us to comfortably accept the eating of animals within reason and the use of animals within reason without having to accept the uncomfortable morally questionable aspect of allowing animal fights.

We use a lot of natural resources as there is plenty of it and we can freely use it. We use trees but we also replace trees, we use land for farming but we also let land rest and use other land. We adequetely only use what we need. In the case of resources such as fuel, we adequetely use renewable or longer lasting resources which helps to offset non or slowly renewable resources.

I do not need to back down from the moving vehicle deaths by people under the influence or distracted, by passengers, txting,or music.
 

xi0

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Preventing them from being able to contribute to the betterment of the American economy by purchasing recreational devices and the supplies for them, and disallowing them to participate in some of the oldest pastimes of our great country is simply outrageous.
Putting restrictions on violent criminals owning a firearm and whatever consequences result from that is what economists would call an "acceptable risk". It's hard to argue that someone who argues against such measures actually has society's best interests in mind.
 

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Putting restrictions on violent criminals owning a firearm and whatever consequences result from that is what economists would call an "acceptable risk". It's hard to argue that someone who argues against such measures actually has society's best interests in mind.
I do have society's best interest in mind. In a world where people are rewarded for making good life decisions, there would be so few violent criminals that there wouldnt need to be any restrictions on firearm usage. Sadly the politicians of today and their supports are against rewarding the successful.
 

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I do have society's best interest in mind. In a world where people are rewarded for making good life decisions, there would be so few violent criminals that there wouldnt need to be any restrictions on firearm usage. Sadly the politicians of today and their supports are against rewarding the successful.
Yeah, this is what is referred to as "utopia" and it doesn't exist and never will. Admitting that, maybe you'll see that viewing issues through an overly idealistic lens instead of a pragmatic one is a pointless exercise.

Recidivism among domestic abusers is anywhere from 30-50%, depending on the source. If you want to tackle reducing domestic abuse and or violent crime in general, no one is stopping you. But said people having zero restrictions on their ability to own a lethal weapon does nothing to tackle this problem, and is the opposite of common sense.
 

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People can change and be reformed. I also dont see any numbers that suggest that repeat domestic violence abusers repeat it continuously after being convicted, reformed, and released.
Isn't it established by now that you only see what you want to see, and not the truth or stats that are out there? I'm pretty sure domestic abusers more often than not continue their abusive ways and rarely reform. You guys complain about terrorism, but you also have no problem with potential terrorists buying guns. You claim this and that all the time, but all signs point to you not giving a shit about lives or people who aren't wealthy.

You seem to want and support everything that is wrong for society and US. I also highly doubt you support same sex marriage as it goes against traditional family values and the Bible, as well as conservative views.
I do have society's best interest in mind. In a world where people are rewarded for making good life decisions, there would be so few violent criminals that there wouldnt need to be any restrictions on firearm usage. Sadly the politicians of today and their supports are against rewarding the successful.
You do realize good life decision doesn't mean success or anything, right?

Why should they reward the successful when the successful are already rewarded? Hell, they commit crimes and don't even get in trouble while a poor person who is caught with weed gets jailed for a long time, or a fast food worker who makes a simple mistake gets yelled at by a bad person.
 

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You claim this and that all the time, but all signs point to you not giving a shit about lives or people who aren't wealthy.
What? All my statements support giving people the chance to experience a prosperous successful life. I support giving people the opportunity to have a great education so they can have a high brain powered job, money to have savings and own a home, and also the chance to buy whatever they want to buy. If someone decides not to do this then why should I care. Im not a bad person for not wanting to give lazy people handouts or free rides. Im a good person for wanting to see others who are successful like me succeed. Sharing is caring.
Why should they reward the successful when the successful are already rewarded? Hell, they commit crimes and don't even get in trouble while a poor person who is caught with weed gets jailed for a long time, or a fast food worker who makes a simple mistake gets yelled at by a bad person.
Have you ever been rewarded? If youre rewarded then youre more likely to keep doing whatever it was that got you rewarded. So if one is successful, then they are more likely to continue to be successful if youre rewarded. If youre not successful, then you shouldnt be rewarded.

Weed is an illegal substance so they should be punished for it. Why should they not be punished for doing something clearly against the law?

Why shouldnt a bad worker be corrected for their mistake at one of the easiest jobs on the planet. Even a little kid knows how to read a receipt.
Recidivism among domestic abusers is anywhere from 30-50%, depending on the source. If you want to tackle reducing domestic abuse and or violent crime in general, no one is stopping you. But said people having zero restrictions on their ability to own a lethal weapon does nothing to tackle this problem, and is the opposite of common sense.
50% is high, I didnt know the numbers were that high. I still think they should have the chance for a weapon, after they have counseling.
 

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50% is high, I didnt know the numbers were that high. I still think they should have the chance for a weapon.
No one is saying they don't ever get a chance to own a weapon. Like criminals who are disenfranchised, it can depend on the state the person is convicted in and/or the discretion of the ATF. Are you now going to say that this issue shouldn't be left up to the states either? For example, in Minnesota there is no waiting period for a felon who is released from prison, but someone from Louisiana must wait 10 years after they're released in order to legally own a gun.
 

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No one is saying they don't ever get a chance to own a weapon. Like criminals who are disenfranchised, it can depend on the state the person is convicted in and/or the discretion of the ATF. Are you now going to say that this issue shouldn't be left up to the states either? For example, in Minnesota there is no waiting period for a felon who is released from prison, but someone from Louisiana must wait 10 years after they're released in order to legally own a gun.
I prefer states to decide that just like they decide their own laws. States deserve power.
 

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What? All my statements support giving people the chance to experience a prosperous successful life. I support giving people the opportunity to have a great education so they can have a high brain powered job, money to have savings and own a home, and also the chance to buy whatever they want to buy. If someone decides not to do this then why should I care. Im not a bad person for not wanting to give lazy people handouts or free rides. Im a good person for wanting to see others who are successful like me succeed. Sharing is caring.

Have you ever been rewarded? If youre rewarded then youre more likely to keep doing whatever it was that got you rewarded. So if one is successful, then they are more likely to continue to be successful if youre rewarded. If youre not successful, then you shouldnt be rewarded.

Weed is an illegal substance so they should be punished for it. Why should they not be punished for doing something clearly against the law?

Why shouldnt a bad worker be corrected for their mistake at one of the easiest jobs on the planet. Even a little kid knows how to read a receipt.

50% is high, I didnt know the numbers were that high. I still think they should have the chance for a weapon, after they have counseling.
No, you seem to be against giving people a chance to experience a successful life. You're against welfare, increasing minimum wage, and whatever else it takes to help these people out. I'm not sure if you're against free college education, but you probably are as well.

No, you are a bad person for generalizing everyone as lazy and assuming they decide not to do this when they don't have the advantage or resources to do it like a wealthy person would. Trump is wealthy not because he worked hard, but because he got money from his dad. thanks to that, if he committed a crime, he could use money or connection to get out of the sentence or get less severe sentence. Thanks to money, Trump could get great education and despite doing poorly or having bad attitude, his dad's connections could ensure he gets a diploma. I don't get why you want others who are successful to succeed; aren't they already succeeding when they're successful? Given what you said, you either don't know what "sharing is caring" means, or your definition of it is wrong.

That is a very bad view. Even if a successful person is not rewarded at all, he will continue to be successful because it means more money. This logic is dumb and horrible. If you're not successful, you should offered the tools to become successful. there is no need for successful people to be even; more rewarded, especially when money and connections will give them far more freedom.

Because weed is not a bad drug. why shouldn't bankers and financial industry employees be punished for cheating and embezzling people, especially when their actions can affect thousands or millions of people? Another reward for successful people - they can commit crime and get away with it.

"easiest job." sure.

You didn't know the numbers were that high. Enough proof that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to these things, but I'm sure if conservatives knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be right wing anymore. Your way of thinking is wrong. People with a history of violence or hurting others should not own a gun or any tool that allows them to kill people easily.

The decisions with homosexual marriage, abortions, and guns were correct and steps further towards freedom and rights for all. What baffles me the most is that despite claiming to support same sex marriage, you're actually against the Court legalizing it.



it's sad that people support Trump and believe his bullshit. I still want an explanation how people think a businessman who declared bankruptcy few times could ever make a good president, especially when he has no experience. Hillary would be the better choice because she at least has experience and isn't a horrible person.
 

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No, you seem to be against giving people a chance to experience a successful life. You're against welfare, increasing minimum wage, and whatever else it takes to help these people out. I'm not sure if you're against free college education, but you probably are as well.
Colleges and Universities must make money some way, so I am against free college education. How else would we support the 4726 colleges & universities here without changing the entire college infrastructure as a whole? Also by making people pay we ensure that they actually are truly dedicated or not for higher education. Why should lazy people get offered a chance to free higher education when they will fail to study and drop out. Thats a waste of taxpayer money and a waste of a spot for an actually deserving student.
I don't get why you want others who are successful to succeed; aren't they already succeeding when they're successful?
Because successful people help keep the world moving? Did you complain in school when kids would repeatedly receive rewards for making the honor roll every semester, every year?

No, you are a bad person for generalizing everyone as lazy and assuming they decide not to do this when they don't have the advantage or resources to do it like a wealthy person would.
Even with every resource available, if someone is lazy they wont do it. So if they arent going to do whatever it is, then they are, for all intents and purposes lazy. Example, people in science programs can get PhD's at virtually no cost to them, however graduation rates for PhD programs are not all 100%, meaning people who didnt make it were lazy.

Even if a successful person is not rewarded at all, he will continue to be successful because it means more money.
I disagree, without rewards someone will lose the motivation to continue to be successful, they will feel burnt out and give up the race. They will check out early, retire at 40 instead of retire at 80, for example.They will leave jobs every five years, instead of remaining loyal to the same company for 40 yrs. Instead of striving to be the best selling technological representative in the region, they will be happy with being the best selling technological representative in the city.

Because weed is not a bad drug. why shouldn't bankers and financial industry employees be punished for cheating and embezzling people, especially when their actions can affect thousands or millions of people? Another reward for successful people - they can commit crime and get away with it.
Drugs are illegal and can harm kids causing them to stray on the bad path, it deserves to be more punished simply taking out a few dollars from the bank account here and there.
 

xi0

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Hillary would be the better choice because she at least has experience and isn't a horrible person.
Based on what? Her actual experience is lackluster, and is filled out by her hobnobbing with elites, not her actual accomplishments.

And here being a "not horrible person" is definitely debatable as well.
 

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Based on what? Her actual experience is lackluster, and is filled out by her hobnobbing with elites, not her actual accomplishments.

And here being a "not horrible person" is definitely debatable as well.
Her husband was a president, and isn't Hillary a politician? She should have experience enough there.

Well, I was comparing her to Trump. I still don't think she's even remotely a good person based on what I've heard, but I'd rather have her over Trump. Trump is an idiot, and he'll irreversibly damage America if his past "accomplishments" are anything to go by.

I was gonna say he's dividing the country, but so is Hillary (although that's probably the supporters), but Trump dividing the country is due to racism and stupidity.
 

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I dont need to accept animal fights as we dont live in an Binary (yes or no) type of situation. Practicing moderation enables us to comfortably accept the eating of animals within reason and the use of animals within reason without having to accept the uncomfortable morally questionable aspect of allowing animal fights.

We use a lot of natural resources as there is plenty of it and we can freely use it. We use trees but we also replace trees, we use land for farming but we also let land rest and use other land. We adequetely only use what we need. In the case of resources such as fuel, we adequetely use renewable or longer lasting resources which helps to offset non or slowly renewable resources.

I do not need to back down from the moving vehicle deaths by people under the influence or distracted, by passengers, txting,or music.
Oh moral integrity is quite binary. Either your proposed morals are or they are not.
If you, at one point, find it sufficient to reason with numbers of death to look at two things, you cannot neglect that reasoning in another case.

Naturally, if you think intention is irrelevant in the one case because only numbers of death counts, you cannot suddenly say in another case that is another thing.
That would be hypocritical.

Fact is: You said that alcohol should be forbidden before guns because it causes more deaths in drunk driving incidents, even tho those are accidents and not focussed shootings (or should i say terror attacks? because mass shootings often are, with or without muslims involved).
By that you neglect the intention and the further psychological effects on society of such actions and say only the numbers count.
Either you find better reasons why you think that way, or, by integrity, you would have to accept that point when it comes to animal fighting.
 

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Alcohol forbidden before guns?!?

You may have a case to make if there were more cases of children accidentally killing their parents/siblings with alcohol.
If there were numerous stories of kids going to school with the aim of murdering their classmates with bottles of whisky.
If there was a tendency for people to flip out, grab a shot of tequila, and murder someone with it.

It's hard to rob a bank with a WKD.
It's significantly harder to fatally injure yourself (or other people) demonstrating the safety features of a pint.

If the only way to stop a bad drunkard with a beer, was a good drunkard with a beer...

Should alcohol be regulated?
Yes... and it is.

In fact, in most places, you have to be older to buy a beer than a firearm.
 
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xi0

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In fact, in most places, you have to be older to buy a beer than a firearm.
Not only that, plenty of people under 21 are trained to kill other human beings by their government before they can legally imbibe...makes sense <_>
 

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Colleges and Universities must make money some way, so I am against free college education. How else would we support the 4726 colleges & universities here without changing the entire college infrastructure as a whole? Also by making people pay we ensure that they actually are truly dedicated or not for higher education. Why should lazy people get offered a chance to free higher education when they will fail to study and drop out. Thats a waste of taxpayer money and a waste of a spot for an actually deserving student.
So basically, you're against giving people a chance to become successful. Colleges should be free, and I'm pretty sure the government can help make it free by cutting the spending on defense and putting it towards more relevant stuff. Hell, certain colleges can be free.

You do realize many people who can afford colleges are same as well, right? I've read of few wealthy kids who didn't do jackshit but party at college, whereas poor kids who were intelligent and more deserving were not able to get into said colleges because they were not wealthy enough or had proper connection. Making people pay doesn't guarantee anything, and thinking otherwise further proves that you have not experienced real life or don't know many people. I know plenty who paid for college and did poorly or dropped out.

Because successful people help keep the world moving? Did you complain in school when kids would repeatedly receive rewards for making the honor roll every semester, every year?
That's a bad comparison because successful people don't need any reward, they're wealthy and successful. THat's all the reward they need. Not to mention, most have the money and connections to get a lot or break the rules and get away with it.

Kids don't get rewards for making the honor roll, they only get recognition. Their reward though is more likely to be successful as good grades mean better school, and better school means better company with better pay.


Even with every resource available, if someone is lazy they wont do it. So if they arent going to do whatever it is, then they are, for all intents and purposes lazy. Example, people in science programs can get PhD's at virtually no cost to them, however graduation rates for PhD programs are not all 100%, meaning people who didnt make it were lazy.
This is a view that only ignorant people or people who do not know about real life have. I hope one day you will come out of your fantasy world and face reality. I'm sure once you face the real world, your opinions will change.

Laziness has nothing to do with it. Someone could study eight hours a day and still fail. Or, they may not want to continue with PhD for one reason or another. I"m also pretty sure it does cost money to get PhD. A quick Google search shows that it does cost money to get PhD, so I don't know what you mean by no cost.

And I'd like proof that people who didn't make it were lazy, or that laziness will be why they won't do it even with every resource available. Do you know what lazy means? From how you have continuously used lazy in this thread, you have no idea what it means. But then again, you do not know what refugee means and why it's important to distinguish it from immigrant. Sad!

I disagree, without rewards someone will lose the motivation to continue to be successful, they will feel burnt out and give up the race. They will check out early, retire at 40 instead of retire at 80, for example.They will leave jobs every five years, instead of remaining loyal to the same company for 40 yrs. Instead of striving to be the best selling technological representative in the region, they will be happy with being the best selling technological representative in the city.


Drugs are illegal and can harm kids causing them to stray on the bad path, it deserves to be more punished simply taking out a few dollars from the bank account here and there.
Well, given how you have continuously showed lack of knowledge when it comes to real life, I don't really care much if you disagree. Your logic makes no sense - why would anyone lose the motivation to continue making tons of money just because they're not rewarded? They don't need any kind of reward, their success is enough. It is weird that you would lose motivation to continue to be successful just because you're not getting free handouts that you don't need, that just shows your elitism and desire to get things you don't deserve. A successful person's rewards for being successful is having money, they need nothing else. With money they can afford many things, flaunt rules and laws and get away with it, create connections that allow them unfair advantage over competition, and whatnot. Successful people in Wall Street have committed crimes and cheated people, but they're still wealthy and free. They don't need any more reward.

Or, with rewards someone will retire at 40 because they don't need to work to make more money when they're taking in plenty or received plenty of money. With rewards people will leave jobs every two years for a company that offers better rewards instead of remaining loyal to the same company for even five years. With rewards, the company won't care about being the best selling technological representative - why bother when they're getting rewards and making tons of money as result for nothing? Your logic is horrible. Without reward, someone will keep getting the motivation to do better and keep working hard to become successful, they'll retire at 60-70, even. Rewards don't make as much of a difference if people will job hop. But without rewards, a company will strive to be the best selling technological representative in the region, if not the nation, because they want to keep making more money and become a leading company of that field; the only reward that would help them is paying less taxes.


Not really. Weed isn't that harmful. But let's not pretend you care about kids, it seems conservatives use people they don't care about as agendas. They bring up homosexuals as a way to call Muslims terrorists or point out mental health issues needing more attention when gun violence comes into play. However, we know the truth is that they would rather send homosexuals to an isolated island and watch them burn, and after the furor over gun violence dies down, they ignore mental health issues and sweep the conversation under the rug. I'm sure democrats are guilty too, but conservatives are way worse.


Oh, and I love how Donald Trump can openly lie, but people will believe him and point out how Hillary is untrustworthy.
 

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Oh moral integrity is quite binary. Either your proposed morals are or they are not.
Since when is it binary? Why do levels of punishment vary even when offenders are accused of the same offense? Im curious in what situation is moral integrity binary. Even in the case of animals, we use animals for science testing however we dont use them for cosmetic testing, even in that situation both are used for industrial science but only one is seen as good and the other is seen as questionable.

You said that alcohol should be forbidden before guns because it causes more deaths in drunk driving incidents, even tho those are accidents and not focussed shootings (or should i say terror attacks? because mass shootings often are, with or without muslims involved).
By that you neglect the intention and the further psychological effects on society of such actions and say only the numbers count.
Either you find better reasons why you think that way, or, by integrity, you would have to accept that point when it comes to animal fighting.
I didnt say that alcohol ought to be forbidden. What should be forbidden is using cars to kill people while distracted. Why are people who are having bouts with alcohol getting behind the wheel and killing people. Surely, in a world with people making claims for more strict gun control, it seems likely that they ought to focus efforts on reducing the number of drunk driving incidents. At least you can see a shooter and have a chance to get away, at 2am in the morning while driving you have no idea if the person on the interstate is intoxicated or not until they are hurtling towards your car. In the day time you have no idea if the person behind you or even crossing the intersection is txting and not seeing you make a legal turn or not, you can't avoid it until its too late. Thus is, it seems moe control of what goes on with cars needs to be pursued instead of trying to control the activities of owners of recreational devices.

Should alcohol be regulated?
But is drunk driving regulated? "On average, every 39 minutes a drunk driver claims a victim in the United States." 1
 
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