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M3J

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This line of thinking has always been rather illogical. Radical Islamists don't need an excuse to go about their business, terrorist attacks didn't stop when Obama was elected either, and he's at times outright refused to mentioned "Terrorism" and "Islam" in the same sentence. So it makes no difference IMO.
But having a president who is against Muslims would make it easier for the terrorist groups to recruit Muslims as pawns though. Isn't that one of the reasons why ISIS attacked Paris with fake Syrian passports? They want to turn the entire world against Muslims to make it easier to recruit more Muslims to carry out suicidal attacks.
 

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But having a president who is against Muslims would make it easier for the terrorist groups to recruit Muslims as pawns though. Isn't that one of the reasons why ISIS attacked Paris with fake Syrian passports? They want to turn the entire world against Muslims to make it easier to recruit more Muslims to carry out suicidal attacks.
Like I said, they're already doing this while Obama is in office, they don't need an excuse. Maybe the leaders think it'll be beneficial to their recruiting if Trump is elected, but it may also invite more interventionist policies to combat them as well.
 

M3J

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I'm 100% sure the leaders will think Trump as a president is beneficial to their recruiting. I'm not saying Trump will be the sole reason for terrorist attacks, I'm saying he'll help increase the chances of terrorist groups recruiting more people, if not causing more Muslims to hate America based on the way they're seen and treated. Obama is defending Muslims, but Trump is saying he wants to ban them. What if the US society under Trump becomes even more hostile towards Muslims or even brown people in general?
 

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People make the argument that he did because they have the benefit of hindsight, I guess. The fact is he had the legacy, he had the experience in being an administrator, but he also had the benefit of Gore not being a strong candidate either.
I am not exactly sure of what your point is. He did what?
 

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I'm 100% sure the leaders will think Trump as a president is beneficial to their recruiting. I'm not saying Trump will be the sole reason for terrorist attacks, I'm saying he'll help increase the chances of terrorist groups recruiting more people, if not causing more Muslims to hate America based on the way they're seen and treated. Obama is defending Muslims, but Trump is saying he wants to ban them. What if the US society under Trump becomes even more hostile towards Muslims or even brown people in general?
Doubtful, because he'D hurt himself by that.
He will make some reforms about being able to throw people out and not let them in which are near noneffective but please the guys who voted for him.
Then he will say that the remaining muslims are fine because he was so tough on them.
Since there is almost no muslim violence in the US; he will not have to deal with a lot of questioning for that.

He only has 5 years. He can always say that his reforms are working already and just needs some time.
If he actually strengtens the US border against mexicans, it will take at least two years until it is finished, and by that point, he could just play on time.

If he however still says mexicans are evil and muslims too, he will get into trouble, because it means he was too weak to handle the problem.
He wouldnt do that.
Naturally he will downplay any mexican crime or muslim terror threats because it makes him look better the less he has to deal with it.
 

M3J

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Doubtful, because he'D hurt himself by that.
He will make some reforms about being able to throw people out and not let them in which are near noneffective but please the guys who voted for him.
Then he will say that the remaining muslims are fine because he was so tough on them.
Since there is almost no muslim violence in the US; he will not have to deal with a lot of questioning for that.

He only has 5 years. He can always say that his reforms are working already and just needs some time.
If he actually strengtens the US border against mexicans, it will take at least two years until it is finished, and by that point, he could just play on time.

If he however still says mexicans are evil and muslims too, he will get into trouble, because it means he was too weak to handle the problem.
He wouldnt do that.
Naturally he will downplay any mexican crime or muslim terror threats because it makes him look better the less he has to deal with it.
Doubt it, and either way, a known Muslim opposer being voted as president would be enough to make the Muslims be disenfranchised. If Trump or American citizens do unsavory things, it could very well push more Muslims into the hands of terrorist groups if they promise revenge upon the evil people.

Not sure if he'll get away with that, but then again Trump supporters haven't really shown intelligence or ability to see things clearly. They claim Hillary is a lying, untrustworthy shit when Trump University is under investigation, and Trump lied about Muslims in NYC/NJ area celebrating 9/11. They complain about the protesters' violence even though that's due to the supporters' violence against minorities and Trump encouraging it. They say Trump is the best choice because he's a businessman (a fucking failure of a businessman) and not a politician, which makes no goddamn sense!

There is some Muslim violence, and I think mainly the Sikhs are also the targets because people think they're Muslims due to the religious head wear.

Five years?

Or he could say they're too strong, and that "we" must unite and stand together to beat these dopey people.
 

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Doubt it, and either way, a known Muslim opposer being voted as president would be enough to make the Muslims be disenfranchised. If Trump or American citizens do unsavory things, it could very well push more Muslims into the hands of terrorist groups if they promise revenge upon the evil people.

Not sure if he'll get away with that, but then again Trump supporters haven't really shown intelligence or ability to see things clearly. They claim Hillary is a lying, untrustworthy shit when Trump University is under investigation, and Trump lied about Muslims in NYC/NJ area celebrating 9/11. They complain about the protesters' violence even though that's due to the supporters' violence against minorities and Trump encouraging it. They say Trump is the best choice because he's a businessman (a fucking failure of a businessman) and not a politician, which makes no goddamn sense!

There is some Muslim violence, and I think mainly the Sikhs are also the targets because people think they're Muslims due to the religious head wear.

Five years?

Or he could say they're too strong, and that "we" must unite and stand together to beat these dopey people.
Oh sorry, ya, in my country it's 5 years, it is 4 years in the US of course.

The thing is, i dont think it is actually that important for the power of terrorist recruiters which tone the president takes in the US, because the US is a whole other playing field than europe.
The US has a rather low muslim inhabitant percentage, and the muslims you have are either african americans or very well educated and well situated.
That means the muslims are usually either rooted in the black community (and those are less likely to be affiliated with some arab terrorist groups
or they are not in the usual risk groups because they are there to work in the US or have well situated parents.
The former group is not known to be into arab terror, the second group tends to rather leave the US when things get hostile instead of joining terrorist groups.
The situation in europe is very different with muslims occupying the lower financial and social groups and yet not having a powerful other identity like the black community has.

What trump would change would be more arguments for anti americanism, but on the other hand, anti americans would be anti US no matter who is in charge.
Obama gets blamed for the lybia invention even tho it were europeans and the frigging ARAB LEAGUE pestering him into doing it.
It's like with antisemitism: It's not like that's a rational thing.
Domestic US terrorism is unlikely to rise. I dont think there will ever be a point in time in which Islamic terrorism ever catches up to the mass shootings you already got over there.
The only US islamic terror attack that was really devastating was 9/11, and that one happened when the world was far more US friendly and the jihadi scene was much smaller.
 

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Oh sorry, ya, in my country it's 5 years, it is 4 years in the US of course.

The thing is, i dont think it is actually that important for the power of terrorist recruiters which tone the president takes in the US, because the US is a whole other playing field than europe.
The US has a rather low muslim inhabitant percentage, and the muslims you have are either african americans or very well educated and well situated.
That means the muslims are usually either rooted in the black community (and those are less likely to be affiliated with some arab terrorist groups
or they are not in the usual risk groups because they are there to work in the US or have well situated parents.
The former group is not known to be into arab terror, the second group tends to rather leave the US when things get hostile instead of joining terrorist groups.
The situation in europe is very different with muslims occupying the lower financial and social groups and yet not having a powerful other identity like the black community has.

What trump would change would be more arguments for anti americanism, but on the other hand, anti americans would be anti US no matter who is in charge.
Obama gets blamed for the lybia invention even tho it were europeans and the frigging ARAB LEAGUE pestering him into doing it.
It's like with antisemitism: It's not like that's a rational thing.
Domestic US terrorism is unlikely to rise. I dont think there will ever be a point in time in which Islamic terrorism ever catches up to the mass shootings you already got over there.
The only US islamic terror attack that was really devastating was 9/11, and that one happened when the world was far more US friendly and the jihadi scene was much smaller.
I think M3J is talking about ISIS recruitment tactics as a whole. The obama administration at least has taken some care in regards to the tone it takes towards islam and avoids using terms or speaking in ways which could be interpreted as there being a war between the west and Islam itself. It's the root of the whole "islamic terrorism" debate at the US. And it is worth noting that Isis does use things said by US politicians to boost their propaganda. In context this should be a "don't feed the troll" situation except that the troll is a bloodthirsty terrorist group.
 
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M3J

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Oh sorry, ya, in my country it's 5 years, it is 4 years in the US of course.

The thing is, i dont think it is actually that important for the power of terrorist recruiters which tone the president takes in the US, because the US is a whole other playing field than europe.
The US has a rather low muslim inhabitant percentage, and the muslims you have are either african americans or very well educated and well situated.
That means the muslims are usually either rooted in the black community (and those are less likely to be affiliated with some arab terrorist groups
or they are not in the usual risk groups because they are there to work in the US or have well situated parents.
The former group is not known to be into arab terror, the second group tends to rather leave the US when things get hostile instead of joining terrorist groups.
The situation in europe is very different with muslims occupying the lower financial and social groups and yet not having a powerful other identity like the black community has.

What trump would change would be more arguments for anti americanism, but on the other hand, anti americans would be anti US no matter who is in charge.
Obama gets blamed for the lybia invention even tho it were europeans and the frigging ARAB LEAGUE pestering him into doing it.
It's like with antisemitism: It's not like that's a rational thing.
Domestic US terrorism is unlikely to rise. I dont think there will ever be a point in time in which Islamic terrorism ever catches up to the mass shootings you already got over there.
The only US islamic terror attack that was really devastating was 9/11, and that one happened when the world was far more US friendly and the jihadi scene was much smaller.
It is very important because again, if the president takes an anti-Muslim stance, then Muslims abroad will think USA is hostile and won't grant them safe asylum. Same with any country, and I'm sure the Brexit thing has pissed off a lot of Muslims and immigrants. I think in one recruiting video, an ISIS used Trump's speech to tell Muslims that it's the West against the Muslimsj, and that the West hate the Muslims.

Muslims even in the US are at risk of being recruited. Though, I think almost anyone is at risk, as I've read girls from countries like France willingly joined ISIS.

No, what Trump would do is make more Muslims convinced/believe that the US is against them.

Domestic US terrorism is foiled by the authorities, if the news are any reliable. A terrorist or two attempted to bomb Times Square years ago, but the vehicle was suspicious and thus, checked out. Didn't a subway train get attacked as well?

Likely so, but Americans don't give a shit. They think Muslims are more dangerous and want to ban and eradicate Islam while supporting gun rights, which have taken more American lives than terrorism. We've seen more violence from American citizens, white people, and right wingers, but it's the Muslims who get ostracized as terrorists while brown people are lumped in with them.

I think M3J is talking about ISIS recruitment tactics as a whole. The obama administration at least has taken some care in regards to the tone it takes towards islam and avoids using terms or speaking in ways which could be interpreted as there being a war between the west and Islam itself. It's the root of the whole "islamic terrorism" debate at the US. And it is worth noting that Isis does use things said by US politicians to boost their propaganda. In context this should be a "don't feed the troll" situation except that the troll is a bloodthirsty terrorist group.
Example is using Trump's speech to let Muslims know the West/US was against them.
 

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@kkck @M3J

I know they use it, but i dont think the effect is a very big oneIn today's time, you can use every single statement to make propaganda for anything.

I have seen people succesfully painting merkel as a left wing extremist, obama as a mad warmongerer, Putin as an Icon of peace and so on.

The people who let themselves be recruited by ISI are first and foremost usually stupid or very naive. It's not like they factcheck whether some Us politician has actually said something or in which context.If its not trump, they take anyone else.
They just dig out the iraq war or say obama killed people in lybia, yemen and pakistan, and they run by it.

The guys they recruit are usually the same type of guy who commits mass shootings in the us.

The thing is, as i said, that the muslims in the US are less suspectible to it. The whole structure of the islamic community in the US is different than in europe.
French muslims have very little in common with muslims in the US.
For example, there are (to my knowledge) no muslim ghettos in the US, however, those are the areas where most of the recruitees come from (molenbeek in belgium, the french banlieus, malmö in sweden and some parts of the netherlands, also the worse areas of london and other british metropolis).
Thing like that simply are not there to that extend in the US.

And for those people outside the US, this is a major factor. Which propaganda u feed them and how true it is is much elss important.

The only area where trump would have partially negative consequences is the muslim world, but i would doubt the extent is very high for the suspectible groups. They hate the US anyway.

The reason why ISIS was afraid of europe taking refugees was less that people suddenly like the west, but more that people were fleeing from their reign.

isis financed itself with robbing people, and the more people fled from their areas and the areas they could potentially occupy, the less money they could press out of them.

The people who are too smart to be lied at about the evil US and who would only actually condemn the US if trump was president are usually not the people who'd join isis in the first place. I think the threat of trump bringing them significantly more recruits is not very big.
Obama (and rest) probably actually did the bigger mistake here by not stabilizing lybia enough after the invention.
We may also not forget the, in the beginning, ISIS got a lot of their arsenal from the iraqi military (by stealing it).
It is very irrelevant what the US does in inner politics, the important question is the status of the middle east , and this one will be pretty horrible no matter who is the next president.
 

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I am not so sure trump is really guaranteed a 45% of the vote. Of course a lot can change in the following months but looking at the state of his campaign right now it simply does not look good for him. Trump is a candidate that his actual party hates. Trump's base in an incredibly small percentage of general election voters. The 14 mil people who win him the primary are simply not even remotely enough to win him the election. And now you have all 3 bushes abstaining from voting, romney is basically campaigning against him, lindsey graham also makes the point that he cannot in good conscience vote for trump... And you even have a few republican figures who have said they are voting for freaking clinton.
http://time.com/4317643/republican-party-donald-trump-ted-cruz-hillary-clinton-indiana/
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/richard-armitage-endorses-clinton-224431
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/richard-armitage-endorses-clinton-224431
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/05/03/3775104/never-trump-has-failed-republican-party/

If anything it kinda seems like trump would be better of abandoning his base and pandering to regular reublicans. Of course, the whole thing has been unpredictable the entire time. It is possible those guys change their minds. It is possible hillary gets indicted. It is plausible a terrorist attack gives trump a boost (though his words about the orlando shooting backfired...) It is plausible donald trump wins. But at least going by the information we have right now, it is overwhelmingly clear his actual party does not in any form or context stand with him. It is overwhelmingly clear general election voters straight up hate him.
Yes, the odds are against it, but of course Trump can win in November. Let's set the stage with the observation that both candidates start with about 45% support. Like it or not, that's where we are right now. Republicans could nominate Donald Duck and he'd start off with 45% support. Ditto for Democrats. Toss in Trump getting a little smarter and then a few things going his way equals Trump winning here.

I am not saying populism does not work of course, I am more than well aware of that. I think a bigger issue during the brexit vote was apathy, the notion that voting doesn't matter or count... Look at younger voters, scotland.... The places that were overtly anti brexit had the lowest turnout. Young voters were overwhelmingly anti brexit and also showed up less to vote. I am not sure how much of a thing "breget", it is way too early to say... But had people who actually wanted UK to stay in EU showed up as much as those who did not want to stay then the election IMO could have been very different. At least this should be a wake up call for dumbasses who think their vote does not matter (ask brexiters who did and didn't vote at the elections, it sure as hell did).... Or who think not voting makes in any form or context a statement. Even though "not voting" is literally doing absolutely nothing....
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Could have; should have; would have; nobody cares about what younger voters want precisely because they didn't show up. What matters is the end-result and the end-result is that a slim majority of voters wanted Brexit. Why? Cultural grievances driven by the influx of immigrants over the last several years. Perhaps another referendum is put up in an attempt to overturn Brexit, but I wouldn't count on it. People have to muster up the will to put the referendum on the ballot and then encourage people, especially young people, to get out and vote. That is going to be increasingly difficult as political opinion on Brexit hardens with the EU's response of "Drop dead!" to the UK.
 

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Bad decisions all around for the Supreme Court today and Im saddened Hilary Rodham Obama is praising expanded access for people to murder their babies. Additionally the gun decision is unnecessary and not good either. I cant wait for the Trump presidency to help put the highest court of the land back on track to making the right decisions to guide our country.
 

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Bad decisions all around for the Supreme Court today and Im saddened Hilary Rodham Obama is praising expanded access for people to murder their babies. Additionally the gun decision is unnecessary and not good either. I cant wait for the Trump presidency to help put the highest court of the land back on track to making the right decisions to guide our country.
Trump being able to put another conservative on the court wouldn't have changed either ruling, since the abortion case was 5-3 and the gun case was 6-2. I don't understand how one could argue that people guilty of domestic violence should have zero restrictions on their right to own a gun.

It certainly is rich how some are perfectly fine stomping all over someone's reproductive rights and their right to privacy, but is perfectly fine with dangerous and abusive people owning a firearm no questions asked.
 

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I don't understand how one could argue that people guilty of domestic violence should have zero restrictions on their right to own a gun.

It certainly is rich how some are perfectly fine stomping all over someone's reproductive rights and their right to privacy, but is perfectly fine with dangerous and abusive people owning a firearm no questions asked.
People deserve a second chance to own a recreational device. People guilty of killing people while under the influence even get their licenses back after a few years.
 

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People deserve a second chance to own a recreational device. People guilty of killing people while under the influence even get their licenses back after a few years.
Why are you equating vehicular manslaughter with domestic violence? There's a breadth of difference there as far as maliciousness and intent goes, so I don't know why you're comparing the two.

And why? Convicted criminals lose their right to vote in many states and in some states they can earn it back, but them earning that right back doesn't come with the risk of injury or death.
 

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And why? Convicted criminals lose their right to vote in many states and in some states they can earn it back, but them earning that right back doesn't come with the risk of injury or death.
Are you one who believes that "once a criminal always a criminal"? Just because someone had a run in with domestic violence doesnt mean they will be domestic violence doers for the rest of their life. Im sure many have reformed, and had healthy relationships after receiving help and assistance. I dont see hoards of forever alone domestic violence doers out there. Preventing them from being able to contribute to the betterment of the American economy by purchasing recreational devices and the supplies for them, and disallowing them to participate in some of the oldest pastimes of our great country is simply outrageous.

Why are you equating vehicular manslaughter with domestic violence? There's a breadth of difference there as far as maliciousness and intent goes, so I don't know why you're comparing the two.
Both can end in death so they might as well be put on the same wavelength.
 

M3J

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There's nothing outrageous about preventing abusers from getting their hands on guns. There have been plenty of homicides by guns between couples or former couples. Abusers have proven they cannot be trusted with a weapon designed to kill people, and it's disturbing that you think otherwise.

WHY DO GUN DEFENDERS COMPARE A TOOL FOR TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO A TOOL FOR ENDING LIVES? wtf is wrong with gun defenders?
 

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@SharkBait so why is it not outragous to ban cockfighting or dogfighting? It is even older than guns
 

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@SharkBait so why is it not outragous to ban cockfighting or dogfighting? It is even older than guns
Putting animal to fight animal for the sake of nothing else seems unethical.
 

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Putting animal to fight animal for the sake of nothing else seems unethical.
Why would that be? Coming from your logic, that would be fine since they are much less in number than the animals we eat, and dead is dead.
Right?
 
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