American Politics

[Zehahaha]

Perhaps lie is not the best word to describe trump in that regard. He technically is being honest about it. But there is an element of dishonesty here since trump did in fact try to get establishment support and was shunned.

I get what you mean about people who supported brexit or trump. In the end the reality here is very complex. I think the bigger issue is that the world simply continues to change and the number of people who got left behind is larger than people realized. But that becomes murky when you see the sort of people they are. I don't believe the media was inaccurate when it portrayed trump supporters or brexit supporters as ignorant and xenophobic white trash. It's hard to look at how the brexit and trump campaigns develop and not see that they were fueled by xenophobia. But what was missed was what fueled that xenophobia. Which in this case would appear to be declining quality of life in general, which is what you allude to. At the US you have had companies making historically high amounts of money for years and working class people from red states do not enjoy the benefits of that. Jobs left to china and even if they are returning(read the whole thing to see what I mean) they won't return in the same amount nor and considering the amount of automation they won't be accessible to an uneducated middle aged man. In the end the issue here is that legitimate frustration has been channeled to actual xenophobia.

Agree, however I simply do not like the treatment these voters receive in traditional media/social media outlets, a simple quick look at Twitter and you can see fairly disgusting things there coming from some anti-Trump people (not that I am pro-Trump by any means), that's just making matters worst actually

An example: People being worried of immigration is a fairly normal thing, yet some media outlet do no hesitate for one second to label anyone even having issues with that as racist/bigot etc instead of trying to understand the reasons why

Will Trump succeed ? Really doubt it, pretty sure a lot of the promises he said won't happen (that Mexico wall is just impossible, at least Mexico won't pay for that shit), however I do hope to some extent that the US will mind their business a bit in the MENA region, can't say Obama did a good job there (although the Iran deal is a success imo). Clinton's economical program was more realistic and logical than Trump but obviously people don't give a shit.

 

[Styx]

Agree, however I simply do not like the treatment these voters receive in traditional media/social media outlets, a simple quick look at Twitter and you can see fairly disgusting things there coming from some anti-Trump people (not that I am pro-Trump by any means), that's just making matters worst actually

An example: People being worried of immigration is a fairly normal thing, yet some media outlet do no hesitate for one second to label anyone even having issues with that as racist/bigot etc instead of trying to understand the reasons why

Will Trump succeed ? Really doubt it, pretty sure a lot of the promises he said won't happen (that Mexico wall is just impossible, at least Mexico won't pay for that shit), however I do hope to some extent that the US will mind their business a bit in the MENA region, can't say Obama did a good job there (although the Iran deal is a success imo). Clinton's economical program was more realistic and logical than Trump but obviously people don't give a shit.

Get out of here with your unbiased understanding. We don't need you nor want you!1!!

 

[Aonori]

Agree, however I simply do not like the treatment these voters receive in traditional media/social media outlets, a simple quick look at Twitter and you can see fairly disgusting things there coming from some anti-Trump people (not that I am pro-Trump by any means), that's just making matters worst actually

An example: People being worried of immigration is a fairly normal thing, yet some media outlet do no hesitate for one second to label anyone even having issues with that as racist/bigot etc instead of trying to understand the reasons why

Will Trump succeed ? Really doubt it, pretty sure a lot of the promises he said won't happen (that Mexico wall is just impossible, at least Mexico won't pay for that shit), however I do hope to some extent that the US will mind their business a bit in the MENA region, can't say Obama did a good job there (although the Iran deal is a success imo). Clinton's economical program was more realistic and logical than Trump but obviously people don't give a shit.

We know the Wall is a impossible promise to stop Ilegal immigration, why? Because ilegal immigrants have ways to bypass the Wall on airplanes, so yeah, about getting Snowden punished for his crimes, I seriously doubt, Trump will have any time as president to process any option regarding that, without sending the Clintons and other rotten people to jail with Trey as Attorney General, also the idea of Putin giving Snowden to the US seems unlikely unless the relations between the two countries get really good, which Trump needs to make amends for.

As for the other promises Trump can try to set up the process to get them started, but I doubt he will finish most of them, in just 4 years, though I can see Obamacare being taken out in time record thanks to their premium raise BS, as one of the easier ones to get dealt with, for now.

 

[Zehahaha]

Get out of here with your unbiased understanding. We don't need you nor want you!1!!

Ay ay ma'am lmao

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2016 ---

We know the Wall is a impossible promise to stop Ilegal immigration, why? Because ilegal immigrants have ways to bypass the Wall on airplanes, so yeah, about getting Snowden punished for his crimes, I seriously doubt, Trump will have any time as president to process any option regarding that, without sending the Clintons and other rotten people to jail with Trey as Attorney General, also the idea of Putin giving Snowden to the US seems unlikely unless the relations between the two countries get really good, which Trump needs to make amends for.

As for the other promises Trump can try to set up the processes to get them started, but I doubt he will finish most of them, though I can see Obamacare being taken out in time record thanks to their premium raise BS, as one of the easier ones to get dealt with, for now.

I can easily see Obamacare being taken yes, because they have control over senate/house of representatives, I do not see a major shift in their foreign policy tho despite Trump's words and what not

I think there will be more impact on domestic policy rather than foreign

 

[Aonori]

Ay ay ma'am lmao

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2016 ---

I can easily see Obamacare being taken yes, because they have control over senate/house of representatives, I do not see a major shift in their foreign policy tho despite Trump's words and what not

I think there will be more impact on domestic policy rather than foreign

Not sure about that, it will depend heavily on how China/US relations will go with Trump as president, along with México, which seem to be Trump´s main concerns right now and he did told the Mexican president that he wanted a "2 way highway" in business deals involving the US and said they might have to change certain agreements, but either or not he brings that up sooner or later in his presidency is debatable.

 

[Doraku]

The world is going to be very interesting at least in the next four years , as a neutral I'm glad that this constant crap hurling from the Left and Right finally ended with a bang. This is going to be quite a spectacle, who's going to be the AG? Rudy Giulani? and ofc that one vacant Supreme Court seat which potentially undo some cause célèbre.

As for the candidate themselves, Clinton and her campaign team being overconfident didn't help. She's pretty much the symbol of the Establishment that a huge percentage of Americans hate so much right now, maybe. When she gets the backing of all the money that she can get in the world plus running against a rabid orangutan and yet still losing, it's pretty much a sign that she's a totally charmless politician.

For Trump, it's immensely fun what is he going to do during his first 100 days of presidency. Abolish EPA and PP? Since Senate and House are also in Republicans' control, it's going to be a breeze for him to act as he wants. Maybe USA's influence in determining who gets the thrones in the Middle East countries are going to be weakened now.

Oh gosh I really wish there are some live footages from Kremlin right now - since pretty much their economic sanction is going to be lifted. The money being tunneled into Wikileaks by Putin yield some amazing results. That man is insanely cunning.

 

[Aonori]

This is one of the things that irk me: trump as anti establishment. Trump as an anti establishment candidate is a lie. We know for a fact that trump begged the establishment for support. And yet they didn't give it to him. Not in the form of mainstream republicans, not in the form of corporate money.... He just ran with the whole anti establishment thing (if he even did that) because after begging for support he was turned down. Like a petulant child who asks his parents for something and when denied says he didn't want it anyways....

It´s their fault for not giving him the Money, also a card he could use against Hillary.
What was funny with this election was that the poor attempts people did to bring down trump, only served to give him a underdog eff and cause other people to be triggered to vote for him due so. I think this was more of a case where the establishment turned a problem into a 8 headed monster problem due to their actions in this election, since they could´ve prevented Trump for winning a few times, by now.

 

[kkck]

Agree, however I simply do not like the treatment these voters receive in traditional media/social media outlets, a simple quick look at Twitter and you can see fairly disgusting things there coming from some anti-Trump people (not that I am pro-Trump by any means), that's just making matters worst actually

An example: People being worried of immigration is a fairly normal thing, yet some media outlet do no hesitate for one second to label anyone even having issues with that as racist/bigot etc instead of trying to understand the reasons why

Will Trump succeed ? Really doubt it, pretty sure a lot of the promises he said won't happen (that Mexico wall is just impossible, at least Mexico won't pay for that shit), however I do hope to some extent that the US will mind their business a bit in the MENA region, can't say Obama did a good job there (although the Iran deal is a success imo). Clinton's economical program was more realistic and logical than Trump but obviously people don't give a shit.

Well, lets look at how this plays out. First we have people whose jobs leave to china. Then while at china technology changes and the jobs go on to straight up disappear. Then people have to compete with migrants over the jobs that remain. Then jobs return but they are fewer and inaccessible to uneducated folk. And people continue to blame immigrants and whatnot. How do you explain to someone who was screwed by this, which literally no one could have prevented because even if the job didn't move to china it would be gone now to automation, that his anger in misplaced and it's not really anyones fault that his job disappeared? The absolute worst case scenario here would be that he had to compete for a job with an illegal immigrant and couldn't compete with that person. How do you explain to him that the economy and productivity are up and a bit of that is fueled exactly by the fact that his labor wasn't needed? Even if you do explain any of this, you are going to sound like a condescending asshole. The people screwed by this won't care.

Well, I wouldn't rule out the wall. If he gets out of nafta then he could certainly impose tariffs on mexico. of course, this would screw up the economy of both countries. As far as obama's foreign policy, it didn't play out perfectly but reading up on it it at least made sense. Drone strikes instead of taking an army overseas is coherent with the information around at least. Actually taking an army to fight ISIS would in turn have more dire consequences. Hopefully he wont go there. Clinton at least had a plan when it comes to the economy. Trump seems to still be winging it.

 

[Doraku]

Well, I wouldn't rule out the wall.

Still curious from where he'd get approximately the US$25 billions that he'd need to build it. 50-50 split agreement with the Mexican govts, maybe? Not sure if eventually The Wall is still going to be the major policy though there are more things that Republicans' need to focus on, at least during the early years of presidency e.g., repelling Obamacare, overturning Roe v. Wade etc.

 

[kkck]

It´s their fault for not giving him the Money, also a card he could use against Hillary.
What was funny with this election was that the poor attempts people did to bring down trump, only served to give him a underdog eff and cause other people to be triggered to vote for him due so. I think this was more of a case where the establishment turned a problem into a 8 headed monster problem due to their actions in this election, since they could´ve prevented Trump for winning a few times, by now.

Yeah, looking at how people tried take down trump is.... It makes it seem like trump was inevitable. Even in hindsight, what else could have been done? People attacked him with what he said on a daily basis and pointed out his flaws on the spot. Honestly, the only conclusion I can draw is that hillary was just that bad a candidate.

 

[Aonori]

Well, lets look at how this plays out. First we have people whose jobs leave to china. Then while at china technology changes and the jobs go on to straight up disappear. Then people have to compete with migrants over the jobs that remain. Then jobs return but they are fewer and inaccessible to uneducated folk. And people continue to blame immigrants and whatnot. How do you explain to someone who was screwed by this, which literally no one could have prevented because even if the job didn't move to china it would be gone now to automation, that his anger in misplaced and it's not really anyones fault that his job disappeared? The absolute worst case scenario here would be that he had to compete for a job with an illegal immigrant and couldn't compete with that person. How do you explain to him that the economy and productivity are up and a bit of that is fueled exactly by the fact that his labor wasn't needed? Even if you do explain any of this, you are going to sound like a condescending asshole. The people screwed by this won't care.

Well, I wouldn't rule out the wall. If he gets out of nafta then he could certainly impose tariffs on mexico. of course, this would screw up the economy of both countries. As far as obama's foreign policy, it didn't play out perfectly but reading up on it it at least made sense. Drone strikes instead of taking an army overseas is coherent with the information around at least. Actually taking an army to fight ISIS would in turn have more dire consequences. Hopefully he wont go there. Clinton at least had a plan when it comes to the economy. Trump seems to still be winging it.

All Trump needs to do, is make sure the drone strikes actually hit ISIS in the region, the russians can take care of the rest.

 

[kkck]

Still curious from where he'd get approximately the US$25 billions that he'd need to build it. 50-50 split agreement with the Mexican govts, maybe? Not sure if eventually The Wall is still going to be the major policy though there are more things that Republicans' need to focus on, at least during the early years of presidency e.g., repelling Obamacare, overturning Roe v. Wade etc.

I think there are a number of ways he could do it. Mexico obviously won't send a check to build the wall but he could impose tariffs to mexican imports and use that as funding. He has a congress majority which means he can send the bill to them and all congress has to do is approve it. As for where the 25 billion would come from, remember that the US gets to print dollars. Really, its not difficult now that trump is the most powerful man in the world.

 

[Aonori]

Yeah, looking at how people tried take down trump is.... It makes it seem like trump was inevitable. Even in hindsight, what else could have been done? People attacked him with what he said on a daily basis and pointed out his flaws on the spot. Honestly, the only conclusion I can draw is that hillary was just that bad a candidate.

Yup, and the whole: "vote Hillary, just so trump doesnt win", seemed quite desperate as well, how can we know, that most of the people that voted for Hillary werent just doing so because of that argument? And while it can be a good argument to prevent someone some people wont like voted to be president, especially with proper substantial back-up to the candidate´s policies (which Clinton had heavily in donations and media), it couldnt do the job as whole, globalism also failed to give good motivation to support Hillary when americans see what happened to Europe with heavy globalist based immigration policies, and hear Hillary say she wants more refugees in America, most people are bound to go against it, just case other cases of the same policy had devastating effs in other countries.

 

[Doraku]

Yeah, looking at how people tried take down trump is.... It makes it seem like trump was inevitable. Even in hindsight, what else could have been done? People attacked him with what he said on a daily basis and pointed out his flaws on the spot. Honestly, the only conclusion I can draw is that hillary was just that bad a candidate.

DNC got what they sowed by 'rigging' the Primary. If Bernie were the Democrats' candidate, chance the race is going to be more unpredictable, maybe.

All Trump needs to do, is make sure the drone strikes actually hit ISIS in the region, the russians can take care of the rest.

No way the drone is not hitting at least a handful of civilians. Even its mere presence is a great disturbance for many people.

 

[shionoro]

People voted for Trump like they voted Brexit. When people are fed up they will go for change even if the change is for worse

As i said: People bring it upon themselves, now let them have their 'change'.
It rarely feels as good as right now to be german.

Oh I can't wait to hear from @shionoro after all those super cocky posts about Hillary winning with ease every post in the last half year or more. Didn't he even bet to do anything if Trump won because it's just that much unlikely? Hah

I was not cocky. I did not run for election. I trusted.
I trusted the american people to be able to tell apart a normal politician they might dislike from an absolutely incompetent man who is going to drag down their country and divide their society.
This trust was in vain, yes. (that said, noone took my bet up).

Quite honestly? I am really disappointed. I had a higher opinion of the US than that.
Whenever the anti americanists crawled out of their basements, i usually defended even the bush era to an extent and the american voters who brought it upon the US:
I don't feel like i can do that now anymore.

The self imagined and partially real leadership of the US over the west ended with this election.
Trump is not going to destroy the world or anything like that. He will embarass the US, he will mostly let advisors run the show from behind the scenes and just clwon arround some time.
It will be horrible years for the US, it will be nice years for the adversaries of the US.
But it won't be back to normal. This election proves that the biggest democracy that formally dserved its name can be brought down by lies and russia today propaganda tactics.
And before there is a lot effort done to prevent something like that from happening again, this won't stop.

This leaves Merkel and Trudeau as one of the last rational worldleaders left (and parts of the EU), and that is horrible.
Maybe add Renzi, maybe add May? Hollande is gone soon, anyway. In any case, not many people are left.
So far Europe could lean onto the US whenever it got into a crisis.
These times are over now.

 

[Doraku]

I think there are a number of ways he could do it. Mexico obviously won't send a check to build the wall but he could impose tariffs to mexican imports and use that as funding. He has a congress majority which means he can send the bill to them and all congress has to do is approve it. As for where the 25 billion would come from, remember that the US gets to print dollars. Really, its not difficult now that trump is the most powerful man in the world.

Unless he's idiotic enough to be unaware that printing more money might increase the volatility of USD, I doubt it. Though in Trump's case, never say never.

 

[shionoro]

DNC got what they sowed by 'rigging' the Primary. If Bernie were the Democrats' candidate, chance the race is going to be more unpredictable, maybe.

Vice versa. The people who voted for trump are now going to get what all the hatemongerers have sowed.
Sadly that also includes the people who did not vote him.

Let's see when the jobs are coming.

 

[Aonori]

DNC got what they sowed by 'rigging' the Primary. If Bernie were the Democrats' candidate, chance the race is going to be more unpredictable, maybe.



No way the drone is not hitting at least a handful of civilians. Even its mere presence is a great disturbance for many people.

I´d be more concerned about it hitting pro-assad/russian troops first, but I think Russia and the US doing joint operation effs in the region without one side doing things at the other´s back first, would be a good development to stop ISIS, and it also most be taken into consideration the radicalization formed on those áreas to begin with, either the drones are used or not, and the colateral damage to the civilians is gonna be a huge issue to adress between all parties involved there, so it can go both ways, but I could see highly radicalized ISIS áreas being targetted by US drones if Assad+Russia are ok with that.

 

[kkck]

All Trump needs to do, is make sure the drone strikes actually hit ISIS in the region, the russians can take care of the rest.

Well, the US and rusia have stood at opposite ends of the syria conflict there. I am not sure russia has been that much help against isis itself. And there is very little that suggests the drone strikes have not actually hit isis in general. In context what the US could do in regards to russia is actually switch sides, support asad and then move on to ISIS with the help of russia and asad.

 

[Aonori]

Vice versa. The people who voted for trump are now going to get what all the hatemongerers have sowed.
Sadly that also includes the people who did not vote him.

Let's see when the jobs are coming.

Might want to start investing in insurance companies, once Obamacare is done and served.