American Politics

[kkck]

Well to be honest trump shouldnt be focusing too much in foreign policies when there are other stuff he needs done internally right now, he should honestly let putin deal with ISIS right now and focus on the constitutional rights being followed, taking out obamacare and focusing on the new trade agreements and deportations of ilegal criminals, military wise he shouldnt get so focused right now on syria because it's gonna be a waste of more money and he needs to gather a lot of intel about a lot of stuff there before making any new movements last thing trump would want is make a mistake there and stop his good relations with russia, the US military generals have been acting a bit too edgy recently, they need some serious stand by time (and some need to seriously be replaced, like the idiot that was threatning to beat the crap out of russia and thus starting nuclear ww3

The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Any president can and should focus on both things, not one or the other. The absolute worst case scenario should be to delegate to someone. That said, trump did hint that he could delegate both thing (he did say to kasich that he would let him handle domestic and foreign affairs).

New intel? US intelligence has been working there for years, he is gonna get there and have at his disposal way more information that he can plausibly handle.

And again, at this point his good relations with russia would come at the expense of US allies... The US should not buy into something as asinine as that. All russia is looking for is the US letting them do as they please. If russia cared at all about peace and good relations they could have done that years ago and simply engage in regular trade with europe and the US. And yet, in decades they made no such honest attempt at that.

 

[shionoro]

US don't need to get involved in every conflict. They have enough problems of their own. Other countries should try to take care of their problems.

If Trump doesn't interfere in middle east politics then I'm happier with him then I'd be with Clinton. Leave a power vacuum. Let things take their course. Stay out of it as long as possible. Because US involvement haven't made ME stable in last 50 years. Instead it made a lot of them to hate US. Time to change the policy.

But I do not think that's what Trump would do. I think he might be exact opposite of what you're saying. And chose the military solution at the slightest hostility

The US needs to get into the most important conflicts of our time. Not interfering means a dangerous power vacuum.
You will probably see the middle east and east europe conflicts to get more problematic.
Same goes for the tensions between china and its neighbours. And that is not good.

The US involvement has made a lot of regions more stable. Unstable does not mean less stable than without involvement.
We talk when the tensions between israel and the Iran flare up again because everyone gets more trigger happy without the US.
Then it will be the EU's duty to handle that, and let's see how that will go.

 

[Aonori]

I would have accepted it if a possible president sanders would have said 'i will concentrate my efforts domestically'.
I would not have liked that but okay.
But trump is going to wreck things domestically if he does anything close to his planned tax cut, soo....

And thing is: Putin does not deal with Isis. It is not happening. it means the US let's down its kurdish allies to fight against them and let's Russia have a field day in ukraine and the middle east. That is very bad.

It is also very bad that he will shut down obamacare, but that is something any rep woulda done (sadly).

He dealt a fair good amount of damage to ISIS on the region already, granted some of it at the very least did involve some colateral damage to civilians, and some pretentions against the syrian freedom fighters, but at this point, there arent many ways to get the region under control without might makes right tactics, russia needs to protect their interests in the region and they very near it´s territory, it´s more dangerous to them, than what it will be to the US, of course this can change depending on how much more ISIS fighters infiltrate america along the refugees among, many other issues, but for russia ISIS is a more dangerous neighbour to them than to the US, also one of the reasons why the US and Russia have so far reached stalemates about what to do in the regions, their positions and interests are just too divergent.

A good part of Ukraine is quite pissed at the West to be honest, regarding assassination attempts and other dirty things done in the region (watched two vids regarding that so far), the citizens there seem to be wanting to become part of Russia at least to a extent, thanks to "energy reasons", but regardless, I doubt the Ukraine issues will be fixed so soon, it´s divided and it will keep divided for a long time, unless trump and putin start making some other business deals in the region, I do hope that doesnt happen soon, but it might happen after a while if Trump sees something to gain from that, there are also some stuff he´d rather have Russia on his side to do as well, but I hope Putin doesnt abuse, this too much, with Obama they just entered a new Cold War, and with Hillary we all could´ve had WWIII so yeah, not a good thing to do anything to raise anymore tension after that, for a good while.

 

[shionoro]

He dealt a fair good amount of damage to ISIS on the region already, granted some of it at the very least did involve some colateral damage to civilians, and some pretentions against the syrian freedom fighters, but at this point, there arent many ways to get the region under control without might makes right tactics, russia needs to protect their interests in the region and they very near it´s territory, it´s more dangerous to them, than what it will be to the US, of course this can change depending on how much more ISIS fighters infiltrate america along the refugees among, many other issues, but for russia ISIS is a more dangerous neighbour to them than to the US, also one of the reasons why the US and Russia have so far reached stalemates about what to do in the regions, their positions and interests are just too divergent.

Ukraine is quite pissed at the West to be honest, regarding assassination attempts and dirty things done in the region, the citizens there seem to be wanting to become part of Russia at least to a extent, thanks to "energy reasons", but regardless, I doubt the Ukraine issues will be fixed so soon, it´s divided and it will keep divided for a long time, unless trump and putin start making some other business deals in the region, I do hope that doesnt happen soon, but it might happen after a while if Trump sees something to gain from that, there are also some stuff he´d rather have Russia on his side to do as well, but I hope Putin doesnt abuse.

He didnt. which damage would that be?
Russia does not fight Isis, nor does Assad. Isis is not bothered by russia. They fight other rebel groups, which actually fight Assad.

And....really? What makes u think that ukraine wants to become a part of russia?
The two things you said here seem like from a bizarro world.
Most of east europe is freaked out by the russian aggressions, the ukraine being no exception.
They got russian minorities which are fed RT propaganda, sure, but that does not change the general view.

 

[Aonori]

He didnt. which damage would that be?
Russia does not fight Isis, nor does Assad. Isis is not bothered by russia. They fight other rebel groups, which actually fight Assad.

And....really? What makes u think that ukraine wants to become a part of russia?
The two things you said here seem like from a bizarro world.
Most of east europe is freaked out by the russian aggressions, the ukraine being no exception.
They got russian minorities which are fed RT propaganda, sure, but that does not change the general view.

Yes, and vacuum power created by other rebel groups out of syria, was very good for ISIS, the problem for putin is that the US is arming a group of people and supplying them very well to do their work, but after it´s done, the said group of people isnt put under any type of control whatsoever and is easily radicalized afterwards..

All that matters in Ukraine is the natural gas


by 3:28, it shows you the special "gas discount" Russia was giving Ukraine before some people decided to stage a coup, that looks like a good reason to join up with Russia.

There´s also this version of the conflict tying more on past historic connections with Russia, but addressing the gas issue very poorly:

Just to show the whole Ukraine deal is quite complex, and has multiple POV(s) regarding it´s problem(s) (and even more vids regarding it) I honestly feel more biased towards the vid explaining the gas as a part of the escalation of the crisis, because it feels very similar to the case of the middle east, regarding the energy aspect.

And the russians are amazed at how most European countries deal with the refugee crisis, and not in a good way.

 

[shionoro]

Yes, and vacuum power created by other rebel groups out of syria, was very good for ISIS, the problem for putin is that the US is arming a group of people and supplying them very well to do their work, but after it´s done, the said group of people isnt put under any type of control whatsoever and is easily radicalized afterwards..

All that matters in Ukraine is the natural gas

No. the US does not do that anymore and their support for the rebels was marginal. It was much too small if you ask me, and now they have no control over any rebel group whatsoever.
The rebels did not create a vacuum of power. the protests against assad started out absolutely rightfully. It were assad's actions radicalizing people, and syria had not been stable since a very long time.
Fact is that Russia couldnt care less about isis or a divide of syria as long as their stuff is safe.
The only peopel fighting isis are the kurdish and shia militia and partially the US military, so let's don't delude ourself in thinking Putin would do anything about them.

by 3:28, it shows you the special "gas discount" Russia was giving Ukraine before some people decided to stage a coup, that looks like a good reason to join up with Russia.

It is not exactly a secret russia was bvlackmailing ukraine with oil. What is your point?
There was not a staged coup. That's one of the comspiracy myths i was talking about before.
There was a rightwing sector which unfortunately got a hold of the revolution, but the people on maidan were mostly legit protestors and the division of ukraine into pro EU and pro Russia is also well documented.
In western ukraine, the EU is the clear favourite, why do you doubt that protests in Kiev can erupt?

Just to show the whole Ukraine deal is quite complex, and has multiple POV(s) regarding it´s problem(s) (and even more vids regarding it) I honestly feel more biased towards the vid explaining the gas as a part of the escalation of the crisis, because it feels very similar to the case of the middle east, regarding the energy aspect.

And the russians are amazed at how most European countries deal with the refugee crisis, and not in a good way.

Russia has blackmailed Ukraine with all kinds of different shit over the years, gas being one of them.
The gas discount was a way to make ukraine more dependend.
When Ukraine decided they wanted to join the european association treaty, russia put so much pressure onto janukowitsch that when the treaty was completely handled out (to which NOONE ever forced him), he suddenly said he won't sign.
After that protests erupted in an already rather unstable nation. You can't just 'stage' a coup. There were legit protests over a long time and an immediet reason for it.
And after it happened, russia decided to destabilize the nation further and take a chunk of it with their soldiers and propaganda.
Why defend that and act like 'someone staged a coup' when the only one who staged anything was russia?

And russia didnt stop there. They try that shit with a lot of eastern european nations, exspecially moldova, romania but also baltic states.
The only ones who can manage to put up a good opposition are the polish.

 

[SharkBait]

Im so glad for some parts of Trump being our commander in chief. Well finally have someone serious about protecting our homelands security from anti christian zealots and he, hopefully, will bomb the expletive out of them overseas.

And this also means military spending wont be cut ! America can retaim its status as the most powerful country.

 

[GrySun]

Weren't you a Hillary voter though sharkbait?

 

[shionoro]

Im so glad for some parts of Trump being our commander in chief. Well finally have someone serious about protecting our homelands security from anti christian zealots and he, hopefully, will bomb the expletive out of them overseas.

Sadly, you don't have someone serious.

 

[GrySun]

There's a lot of hate in you shionoro.
It feels like even if Trump brought world peace and cured cancer you'd still despise him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[shionoro]

There's a lot of hate in you shionoro.
It feels like even if Trump brought world peace and cured cancer you'd still despise him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No. There is no hate in me.
There is rational thinking in me. Some people mistake one for the other.
I am sorry that i judge a politican by his proposed policy plans which are already deemed to be very threatening to the US while it seems fine when people say due to the word 'pizza' that clinton led a child prostitute ring or s th.

Fact is that virtually any plan trump proposed is at best negative, at worst disastrous. First and foremost (because it is most likely that he goes through with that) his tax plans.

Trump just also said that he is super fine with israel's settlement policy.
Where are all those people debating with me in the israel thread that the US was too nice to Israel?
Fact is obama wasnt, he called out the settlement policy several times, while trump won't care.
He won't care about the whole middle east, and that will leave a very dangerous situation.

But that's cool right because then some people can tell themselves that the US is not at fault-

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Im so glad for some parts of Trump being our commander in chief. Well finally have someone serious about protecting our homelands security from anti christian zealots and he, hopefully, will bomb the expletive out of them overseas.

And this also means military spending wont be cut ! America can retaim its status as the most powerful country.

Because the name "ISIS" has killed more than gun violence in the United States.
Yes, let's continue bombing the shit out of them so that we can piss more people off and create even more extremists organizations. It seems to be working quite well.

Which means you don't mind your Tax Dollars going to more weapons and more unnecessary bloodshed. Looks like we know the National Debt won't go down for a while if this keeps up...

 

[Aonori]

And it looks like someone might be on the road to a promotion:

Spoiler

 

[xi0]

I would take Gowdy 100x over Giuliani. I might not agree with the guy politically, but he knows the law and isn't a blubbering idiot like what Giuliani has become.

 

[SharkBait]

Weren't you a Hillary voter though sharkbait?

The time is now for party unity. Were stronger when were united so I ought to support Trump policies.

 

[M3J]

All those sad pathetic little dems protesting and whining. At what point do they accept the results I wonder.

It'll soon be time for everyone to unite behind president Trump. They better sort out their petty little grievance by then so they don't stand in the way of America's future developments.

Um, they did accept the results even though Hillary won the popular vote. They're protesting and rioting because they don't want a hate monger in office and are fearful that Trump supporters will attack minorities, LGBTQ, immigrants, and women. there are some incidents out there where that has actually happened.

The results are the results - Due to the wonderful craziness of the American system, Trump can win the presidency even though he lost the popular vote.
But just because they didn't get their desired candidate, doesn't mean that they should just roll over and take it like a bitch.

In fact, now is the exact time when they shouldn't just accept their fate.

Whining may not be so useful/productive, but protesting is a cornerstone of a healthy democracy.

If you don't protest injustice (in whatever form you see it) when it rears its ugly head, then it is likely that you will see more of it - as the people in power (Trump/Republicans/whoever) will see that they can get away with more and more.

If you care about your country, you have to be willing to protest what you don't believe in - passively accepting losses doesn't help you/your country/democracy/freedom/patriotic-American-music-combined-with-exaggerated-flag-waving.

Has nothing to do with getting desired candidate, otherwise there'd have been riots when Bernie lost the primaries. People just don't want someone who lies and spreads hate in the office.

Funny thing is, most of these Trump supporters whining about the rioters said they'd riot and become violent if Hillary won. They have no right to complain about this.


That aside, I hope the anti-Trump brigadoons stop destroying stuff and attacking Trump supporters.

Im so glad for some parts of Trump being our commander in chief. Well finally have someone serious about protecting our homelands security from anti christian zealots and he, hopefully, will bomb the expletive out of them overseas.

And this also means military spending wont be cut ! America can retaim its status as the most powerful country.

So, what about protecting our homeland's security from Christians and right wings? We're in more danger from them than we are from "anti-Christian zealots." And if you're talking about ISIS, they've killed more Muslims than any other group, so they're not anti-Christian. Get your facts straight.

 

[z.5]

Has nothing to do with getting desired candidate, otherwise there'd have been riots when Bernie lost the primaries. People just don't want someone who lies and spreads hate in the office.

Well, it kinda does - seeing as they believe that trump (the candidate they didn't desire) is likely to 'lie' and 'spread hate'.

Unfortunately, I doubt that many of the people protesting now would have also been out in force had Hillary won - there would be protests, sure, but they would be a different set of people.

Also, I am not sure if you thought I was against the protests... I am not.
If anything, I think people should protest more - not only directly after an election/decision.

It is a sorry state of affairs that the only time people really have an interest in the running of their country is directly around election times...
Following that, people happily go back to their lives and forget about it all, until the next time that there is an election/war

 

[GrySun]

Um, they did accept the results even though Hillary won the popular vote. They're protesting and rioting because they don't want a hate monger in office and are fearful that Trump supporters will attack minorities, LGBTQ, immigrants, and women. there are some incidents out there where that has actually happened.

I don't really understand. They fear Trump supporters who won? I mean if Trump lost I'm sure there'd be some ugly sights from Trump supporters, but now?
What do some incidents prove exactly? There are some incidents of unhappy democrats harassing and attacking Trump voters too you know. And I've seen plenty of fake "incidents" of Trump supporter violence.

 

[shionoro]

I don't really understand. They fear Trump supporters who won? I mean if Trump lost I'm sure there'd be some ugly sights from Trump supporters, but now?
What do some incidents prove exactly? There are some incidents of unhappy democrats harassing and attacking Trump voters too you know. And I've seen plenty of fake "incidents" of Trump supporter violence.

It is a fact that after the brexit, violent crime against immigrants rose.
Why would it not happen in the US after such an election?

 

[g01]

Protesting trump doesn't mean that people voted against him do not accept his win(yeah some people do not accept it i know, which it is pointless). By protesting him, people show that they are displeased with his policy and US is not all about his voters. Nothing bad can come out of protesting unless it somehow involves violence.