American Politics

[xi0]

Hmm, maybe he thinks the democrats are just pandering and don't care about the blacks while Trump is openly "against" the blacks. I'd still prefer the pandering though.

What? Just saying, since I've heard that multiple poll locations somehow didn't let people select Trump. Though, he won because of electoral, not because of popular.

Both sides pander, it's how they court uninformed voters. And I sort of fail to see how Trump is "openly against blacks" either. He had no real answer for whatever BLM was asking of him, but that doesn't automatically make a person racist.

I was explaining why I found it ironic... Yeah, and the electoral college is in the constitution, and people have won despite losing the popular vote in the past as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/world/europe/trump-campaign-russia.html?_r=0
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ection-president-vladimir-putin-a7408866.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...fb82fa-a73d-11e6-9bd6-184ab22d218e_story.html
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/1/13487322/donald-trump-russia-agent-hack

It seems like potential propaganda to me honestly. Of course, it was in Russia's interest to see Clinton lose. But I wouldn't put it past them to sew seeds of "treason" or whatever to create more unrest among the population. In any case, there's no real way to validate this from what I can see. They say this, Trump's campaign denies it. He said, she said.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2016 ---

Sort of shocking to see someone like Matthews take Democrats to task over something. While he's not the most left-leaning personality on cable news, he's usually a strong defender of the left. And to see someone on MSNBC other than Scarborough talk honestly about Clinton and her campaign is a somewhat crazy thing to see.

 

[M3J]

Both sides pander, it's how they court uninformed voters. And I sort of fail to see how Trump is "openly against blacks" either. He had no real answer for whatever BLM was asking of him, but that doesn't automatically make a person racist.

I was explaining why I found it ironic... Yeah, and the electoral college is in the constitution, and people have won despite losing the popular vote in the past as well.


It seems like potential propaganda to me honestly. Of course, it was in Russia's interest to see Clinton lose. But I wouldn't put it past them to sew seeds of "treason" or whatever to create more unrest among the population. In any case, there's no real way to validate this from what I can see. They say this, Trump's campaign denies it. He said, she said.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2016 ---

Sort of shocking to see someone like Matthews take Democrats to task over something. While he's not the most left-leaning personality on cable news, he's usually a strong defender of the left. And to see someone on MSNBC other than Scarborough talk honestly about Clinton and her campaign is a somewhat crazy thing to see.

His "solutions" to help the blacks and curb inner-city violence, like stop-and-frisk. And he did promise to punch the BLM protesters if they protested at his rallies.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2016 ---

Sort of shocking to see someone like Matthews take Democrats to task over something. While he's not the most left-leaning personality on cable news, he's usually a strong defender of the left. And to see someone on MSNBC other than Scarborough talk honestly about Clinton and her campaign is a somewhat crazy thing to see.

Well, he's not wrong. Even if it was Matthews, to think someone from MSNBC would say this...

 

[xi0]

His "solutions" to help the blacks and curb inner-city violence, like stop-and-frisk. And he did promise to punch the BLM protesters if they protested at his rallies.

His answer wasn't something BLM was hoping to hear. It was all about enforcing the "rule of law" or some vague lip-service. He endorsed stop-and-frisk because he asserted that it did in fact reduce crime. Someone thinking this doesn't make them racist. If he's incorrect about stop-and-frisk then that makes him ignorant of the issue itself...which is a surprise to who exactly? No one.

He said that about a specific protester, yeah. He however didn't say that about all protesters as a threat. He reacted brashly towards people interrupting his appearances, yes. But does anyone think he's dropping the mic and running people down WWE-style? Give me a break (that would have been hilarious though...). The same shit happens to anyone else who interrupts public speakers that have a security detail, they're manhandled and escorted out. And I don't know why one would think skin color has anything to do with how Trump would treat someone taking away his "moment to shine" at the circuses that were his rallies.

Well, he's not wrong. Even if it was Matthews, to think someone from MSNBC would say this...

It's just indicative of the failure that her campaign was. I think I heard somewhere that if you look at the proportion of voters, the number of people who voted for Trump was about on-par with those who voted for McCain and Romney (both lost obviously), but if you combine the previous two cycles to this election, the Democrats lost around 10 million votes since Obama's first win in 2008 (Obama himself lost around 3 million votes in 2012).

 

[shionoro]

You don't have a good track record with your predictions, so I say it won't happen because you expect it.
I even remember you talking how the us election can't be compared to brexit and how different they are..

I have a pretty damn amazing track record with the things I say.
Even before trump got elected i said that he would draw back from foreign involvemen which is pretty dangerous.
First thing he did was assuring israel that their settlement policy was A-ok while obama always called them out on it.

And it is true what i said: This election could not be compared to brexit, it was completely different and the polls were somewhat accurate.
The fivethirtyeight poll gave trump a 30% chance of winning, and the unexspected things he won mostly had a 60-40 chance of clinton winning.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---

If the dems keep rioting there will be violence from the pro trump supporters, America will be divided into two and there will be violence to the immigrants and all other supporters, involved in all of this thats a given also this whole riots are gonna trigger Trump´s endorsements first to be violent at some point if they keep this up, just saying, those are some serious pro-trump guys, they wont respect most of the stuff said by the dems against Trump.

Also one thing, I´m finding alarming here, is how communists are getting inside of these protests, which makes most of them highly susceptible to be turned violent, thank god America isnt a communist country!

Protesting is not rioting. We saw the same thing after Obama got elected from the reps.
The narrative 'democrats dont accept the outcome' is blatantly false, and america is a divided country since a long time.

There IS violence to immigrants and so on. Like after the brexit too.
And after the brexit there were no such demonstration from anti brexit folks.

One thing is clear: No, democrats protesting are not responsible for violence against immigrants.

And...communists? What?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016 ---

What's the source there? I mean, this was implied from really early on during the campaign. Wikileaks being backed by Russian interests isn't surprising either, but I'm uncertain of the legality on Trump's part there.

Well, russian officials now said they got ties, s th trump always denied.

 

[GrySun]

Damn

 

[Aonori]

I have a pretty damn amazing track record with the things I say.
Even before trump got elected i said that he would draw back from foreign involvemen which is pretty dangerous.
First thing he did was assuring israel that their settlement policy was A-ok while obama always called them out on it.

And it is true what i said: This election could not be compared to brexit, it was completely different and the polls were somewhat accurate.
The fivethirtyeight poll gave trump a 30% chance of winning, and the unexspected things he won mostly had a 60-40 chance of clinton winning.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---

Protesting is not rioting. We saw the same thing after Obama got elected from the reps.
The narrative 'democrats dont accept the outcome' is blatantly false, and america is a divided country since a long time.

There IS violence to immigrants and so on. Like after the brexit too.
And after the brexit there were no such demonstration from anti brexit folks.

One thing is clear: No, democrats protesting are not responsible for violence against immigrants.

And...communists? What?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016 ---

Well, russian officials now said they got ties, s th trump always denied.

First, I didnt say Protesting=Rioting, what I said was that there would be consequences if the dems were to keep rioting and we are already seeing signs of that, granted not all of them are rioting and neither are communist parties inside those protests and riots 100% of the time, just saying that there will be consequences for the dems to keep on doing agressive riots and if they are violent against pro-trump supporters they will get strong responses too.

Not sure about what happened after Obama was elected, but were there comunists being inside protests and riots? Case if so, it´s frightening.

Just like most of what the Mainstream Media says to bash trump is false and taken out of context and yet there are still people that believe that, when they are asked in their own protests.
Why would democrats protesting be responsible for violence against immigrants? Unless they find out some immigrants voted for trump, then it´s free game.

Yes, there are some disturbing cases of communists inside of those protests, it´s not even funny, sickle and hammer red flags, there also some covering their faces with scarfs during protests and dems there dont do anything about it.

 

[shionoro]

Damn

Now they can help each other to bring down anything worthwhile in the west together.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---

First, I didnt say Protesting=Rioting, what I said was that there would be consequences if the dems were to keep rioting and we are already seeing signs of that, granted not all of them are rioting and neither are communist parties inside those protests and riots 100% of the time, just saying that there will be consequences for the dems to keep on doing agressive riots and if they are violent against pro-trump supporters they will get strong responses too.

Not sure about what happened after Obama was elected, but were there comunists being inside protests and riots? Case if so, it´s frightening.

Just like most of what the Mainstream Media says to bash trump is false and taken out of context and yet there are still people that believe that, when they are asked in their own protests.
Why would democrats protesting be responsible for violence against immigrants? Unless they find out some immigrants voted for trump, then it´s free game.

Yes, there are some disturbing cases of communists inside of those protests, it´s not even funny, sickle and hammer red flags, there also some covering their faces with scarfs during protests and dems there dont do anything about it.

Which communists are you even talking about?
And no, but there were lots of right extremists back in obama's time, as they were on trump rallys before. That said: You are absolutely overexaggerating these protests.

And no: Most of what the mainstream media say about trump is absolutely true. What would be false here? I hear that myth a lot, but most of the mainstream media didnt lie when talking about trump.

 

[GrySun]

Now they can help each other to bring down anything worthwhile in the west together.

At what point do you consider that other people have other viewpoints than you I wonder..?

 

[shionoro]

At what point do you consider that other people have other viewpoints than you I wonder..?

Viewpoints are different from lying to people for personal benefits, as both trump and farage have done nonstop.
And with lies i mean clear lies about their agendas, not the typical political appeasement talk.

Rallying people for the brexit and running away after it was decided and then denying to ever have promised most of the stuff people voted the brexit for is one of these things.
Trump's plans to 'build a wall and let mexico pay for it' to 'lock clinton up' or to 'smash isis' are similarly nonsense. They are not viewpoints, they are lies for personal gain which will never be installed anyway.
Same goes for the tax policy of him. Don't get me wrong, this WILL unfortunately probably be installed. It just won't help anyone of the guys who voted for it.
And it is not like Trump does not know that.

So please don#t tell me something about viewpoints when you dig people who lie to you about their agendas.

 

[Aonori]

Now they can help each other to bring down anything worthwhile in the west together.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---

Which communists are you even talking about?
And no, but there were lots of right extremists back in obama's time, as they were on trump rallys before. That said: You are absolutely overexaggerating these protests.

And no: Most of what the mainstream media say about trump is absolutely true. What would be false here? I hear that myth a lot, but most of the mainstream media didnt lie when talking about trump.

Trump made a joke out of one of them, the KKK seems obcessed into trying to get Senpai trump to notice them though, I will give you that.

Depends on what most are we talking about here: his lockeroom talk, definitely, his supposed affairs coming up around the time of Bill Clinton´s rape accusations attacks by trump, controversial, his positions regarding the war on the middle east, lacked some further investigations, unlike his lockeroom talk, the way he got away with paying taxes, a rich guy´s classics, definitely believe that as true, and other many cases, will also be true or false, but some of the mainstream media talks on trump are to be taken with a grain of salt, until they show proper investigation on the subject, most dont which is I dont believe too much in mainstream media anymore.

Yesterday for instance, I open the internet and on my "news feed" I receive the following: "Trump plans to change some of campaign promises regarding Obamacare and getting Hillary a special prossecutor to see forward to the investigation of her email scandal", because of his talk with Obama, I go out to Google and Youtube searching about that and it turns out some of trump´s campaign promises are already being set in motion before he even gets into office, like the TPP thing and Trey Gowdy stating that Obama wont be in Office for very long to protect Hillary Clinton from the law.

So yeah, thats just one of the reasons why I take as controversial most of the things said about Donald Trump, when they arent backed up with proper research, just like I would take as controversial most of things said about anyother politicians, when they are based on taken out of context stuff, that lead to controversial statements.

 

[shionoro]

Trump made a joke out of one of them, the KKK seems obcessed into trying to get Senpai trump to notice them though.

Trump also made lots of remarks which the KK found politically inspiring. Let's dont forget that.

Depends on what most are we talking about here: his lockeroom talk, definitely, his supposed affairs coming up around the time of Bill Clinton´s rape accusations attacks by trump, controversial, his positions regarding the war on the middle east, lacked some further investigations, unlike his lockeroom talk, the way he got away with paying taxes, a rich guy´s classics, definitely believe that as true, and other many cases, will also be true or false, but some of the mainstream media talks on trump are to be taken with a grain of salt, until they show proper investigation on the subject, most dont which is I dont believe too much in mainstream media anymore.

Give me one popular claim which went through the media on trump which was blatantly false. Reporting that a claim exists is not saying it is true, and the claims about trump have some shred of credibility at least.
You said the mainstream media say wrong things about him, so which thing. One concrete thing they said is true.

Yesterday for instance, I open the internet and on my "news feed" I receive the following: "Trump plans to change some of campaign promises regarding Obamacare and getting Hillary a special prossecutor to see foward to the investigation of her email scandal", because of his talk with Obama, I go out to Google and Youtube searching about that and it turns out some of trump´s campaign promises are already being set in motion before he even gets into office, like the TPP thing.

TPP will not see the light of the day unless trump decides he wants it. The TP motion is dead for now, with or without trump. US senate didnt want it, the EU's national parliaments seem to want it even less.
And yes, it is true: Trump is already going back on some of his promises.

 

[Aonori]

Trump also made lots of remarks which the KK found politically inspiring. Let's dont forget that.


Give me one popular claim which went through the media on trump which was blatantly false. Reporting that a claim exists is not saying it is true, and the claims about trump have some shred of credibility at least.
You said the mainstream media say wrong things about him, so which thing. One concrete thing they said is true.




TPP will not see the light of the day unless trump decides he wants it. The TP motion is dead for now, with or without trump. US senate didnt want it, the EU's national parliaments seem to want it even less.
And yes, it is true: Trump is already going back on some of his promises.

If the KKK, believe trump can build the Wall they most be delusional, just like other race supremacists groups are.

More than one, in fact.

You really believe he will leave Obamacare intact? He wants a competitive america, but I do take that Obamacare might take a huge while to take out, maybe Trump will just reform for now, but consideering him keeping obamacare comes from CNN

Spoiler

I will keep na eye out just in case something happens.

That said there´s also CBS:

Spoiler

(look at their credibility levels in the comment section below)

 

[shionoro]

f the KKK, believe trump can build the Wall they most be delusional.

More than one, in fact.

Of course they are delusional. But a big chunk of Trump supporters are and he won due to those votes. And that is insanely dangerous, to have high profile political figures catering to them.

You really believe he will leave Obamacare intact? He wants a competitive america, but I do take that Obamacare might take a huge while to take out, maybe Trump will just reform for now, but consideering him keeping obamacare comes from CNN

He does not want a competative america, he wants an america in which businessmen like him are left alone and dont get taxed a lot and does not care for anything else (at least if he goes through with his tax plans).
Obamacare was a thing done for the small people. Taking that away is one more step to the logic of thinking 'competative' is something of value when poor people suffer.

 

[Aonori]

Of course they are delusional. But a big chunk of Trump supporters are and he won due to those votes. And that is insanely dangerous, to have high profile political figures catering to them.



He does not want a competative america, he wants an america in which businessmen like him are left alone and dont get taxed a lot and does not care for anything else (at least if he goes through with his tax plans).
Obamacare was a thing done for the small people. Taking that away is one more step to the logic of thinking 'competative' is something of value when poor people suffer.

When certain people start jokes with Obamacare and especially the "You can keep your doctor" one and laugh it off, it doesnt look like something done for the small people, but I suppose we will see if it will matter much for the small people or for the big ones, once the matter gets put into congress.

 

[shionoro]

When certain people start jokes with Obamacare and especially the "You can keep your doctor" one and laugh it off, it doesnt look like something done for the small people, but I suppose we will see if it will matter much for the small people or for the big ones, once the matter gets put into congress.

The problem is that many people know they benefit from obamacare but still dont like it.
They rather have a few more dollars and not be able to go to the doctor.
But it will lead to many people suffering, that should be clear.

 

[Aonori]

The problem is that many people know they benefit from obamacare but still dont like it.
They rather have a few more dollars and not be able to go to the doctor.
But it will lead to many people suffering, that should be clear.

If they dont like going to the doctor and have more Money, then let them have more Money, they can go deal with their health issues afterwards, in whatever way shape or form they want, also Obamacare is a trouble for small business people, it´s killing america.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

It's just indicative of the failure that her campaign was. I think I heard somewhere that if you look at the proportion of voters, the number of people who voted for Trump was about on-par with those who voted for McCain and Romney (both lost obviously), but if you combine the previous two cycles to this election, the Democrats lost around 10 million votes since Obama's first win in 2008 (Obama himself lost around 3 million votes in 2012).

Wow... assuming this is entirely true, Democrats lost 10 million votes (if not, more)? This sure is going to be difficult for the Democrats in the next couple of months (like bringing in people that would inspire and attract the younger voters, abolishing the Super Delegate, ect...).

 

[shionoro]

If they dont like going to the doctor and have more Money, then let them have more Money, they can go deal with their health issues afterwards, in whatever way shape or form they want, also Obamacare is a trouble for small business people, it´s killing america.

But that won't happen.
It is not killing america, because the fistful of dollars u get under trump's tax plans wont help u in any way.
The first time you have a severe medical condition, you are fucked. And fucked hard.
Because u cannot pay your doctors with the little money u get more.

 

[xi0]

Well, russian officials now said they got ties, s th trump always denied.

Yeah I read what kkck linked to. They're saying it and Trump's campaign is denying it...so I'm not sure what one could take from that. IMO it's rather cynical propaganda given the environment post-election.

Wow... assuming this is entirely true, Democrats lost 10 million votes (if not, more)? This sure is going to be difficult for the Democrats in the next couple of months (like bringing in people that would inspire and attract the younger voters, abolishing the Super Delegate, ect...).

I saw the numbers earlier today. McCain got 59.9m in 2008, and Romney got 60.9m votes in 2012. Obama got 69.4m votes in 2008, and 65.9m votes in 2012. Trump got 60.3m votes and Clinton got 60.9m votes. That's just a huge drop-off for Democrats, especially with there being more voters now than there were 8 years ago by default. Trump didn't "win" this election, the Democrats "lost" it.