American Politics

[kkck]

Castro was a brutal dictator who placed god knows how many people to death by shooting squad... He shouldn't be getting all this praise just because after decades he finally had the decency to die. I take no issue with him obama being diplomatic about this but what Truedau and some in europe have said about him is asinine. Imagine Mussolini, Stalin, Gorbachev and others dying and the world being like "Oh, they were so awesome and totally didn't commit human rights atrocities"....

 

[shionoro]

Castro was a brutal dictator who placed god knows how many people to death by shooting squad... He shouldn't be getting all this praise just because after decades he finally had the decency to die. I take no issue with him obama being diplomatic about this but what Truedau and some in europe have said about him is asinine. Imagine Mussolini, Stalin, Gorbachev and others dying and the world being like "Oh, they were so awesome and totally didn't commit human rights atrocities"....

Happened before too with lots of worldleaders who died.
The european left (or at least the german far left) has a giant boner for southamerican dictators as long as they are 'socialist'.

Notably tho, not the center left. It is one of the reasons why i stopped voting for far left, because i cannot accept such a behaviour.

Having a reltionship to dictators is one thing and it is politically necessary. Same goes for being diplomatic about things like that.
However, praising them, even if you think they did work that brings the country forward in the longterm (like Mao undeniably did after killing millions of people) is distateful in my opinion.
By that you condone things you would never accept in your own country as political means.

 

[kkck]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...160678-b0f9-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html

This is a fun one. So many promises to keep tabs on.... Historically presidents and even politicians have a respectable track record on keeping campaign promises (which is why the bigger issue when it comes to candidates like clinton is not what they promise but rather what they suspiciously aren't promising). However trump took things a step further and went ahead to promise a bunch of stuff which fall within the grounds of "conceptual impossibilities".

Create 25 million jobs? I doubt the US can even bring in enough immigrants to cover that many jobs lol. Bring back manufacturing jobs? He has better odds of delivering if he promises a squared circle. The jobs he wants to bring back don't exist anywhere anymore. Encourage manufacturers to return with tax incentives? I guess he could do that and pretend they returned because of the incentives considering the companies in question are returning to the country as we speak anyways. They are just not bringing jobs back (at least not enough to make things as they were).

He could deliver on his promise to not eat another oreo though.

Apple building on the US.... I am not sure if tax incentives would be enough here. They were already looking into building even before trump though so I would argue trump would have little influence on this one way or the other. In the end even if they do build at the US the whole process would be so automated it will have little effect on jobs as a whole. And I doubt the jobs could be performed by uneducated folk anyways considering it is a fully automated plant. He will need lots of asian CEOs for this one....

Resurrecting the coal industry... What a laughably stupid idea lol. Even if we ignore the enviromental disaster this would represent, it simply can't be done, coal can't compete with natural gas nowadays. And trump supports fracking. Fracking and coal are as far as I know mutually exclusive. Can't believe people actually fell for this, what trump has said is contradictory and stupid.

Leave the minimum wage at 7.25.... yep, trump cares only for the middle class. Heck, they are obviously making too much money as it is. He will protect their poverty at least.

Trump says he won't take vacations.... Why would he? Pence will do everything anyways.

He won't settle cases. Ever. Too easy.

Man, so much to go over.....

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

But my biggest concern is that he'll probably continue the Tax Breaks on big Companies (and with majority of the Government being controlled by the Republicans, it's very likely that they'll contribute to further Tax Breaks).
Good way to make Corporatism more powerful than it already is in America.

 

[M3J]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...160678-b0f9-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html

This is a fun one. So many promises to keep tabs on.... Historically presidents and even politicians have a respectable track record on keeping campaign promises (which is why the bigger issue when it comes to candidates like clinton is not what they promise but rather what they suspiciously aren't promising). However trump took things a step further and went ahead to promise a bunch of stuff which fall within the grounds of "conceptual impossibilities".

Create 25 million jobs? I doubt the US can even bring in enough immigrants to cover that many jobs lol. Bring back manufacturing jobs? He has better odds of delivering if he promises a squared circle. The jobs he wants to bring back don't exist anywhere anymore. Encourage manufacturers to return with tax incentives? I guess he could do that and pretend they returned because of the incentives considering the companies in question are returning to the country as we speak anyways. They are just not bringing jobs back (at least not enough to make things as they were).

He could deliver on his promise to not eat another oreo though.

Apple building on the US.... I am not sure if tax incentives would be enough here. They were already looking into building even before trump though so I would argue trump would have little influence on this one way or the other. In the end even if they do build at the US the whole process would be so automated it will have little effect on jobs as a whole. And I doubt the jobs could be performed by uneducated folk anyways considering it is a fully automated plant. He will need lots of asian CEOs for this one....

Resurrecting the coal industry... What a laughably stupid idea lol. Even if we ignore the enviromental disaster this would represent, it simply can't be done, coal can't compete with natural gas nowadays. And trump supports fracking. Fracking and coal are as far as I know mutually exclusive. Can't believe people actually fell for this, what trump has said is contradictory and stupid.

Leave the minimum wage at 7.25.... yep, trump cares only for the middle class. Heck, they are obviously making too much money as it is. He will protect their poverty at least.

Trump says he won't take vacations.... Why would he? Pence will do everything anyways.

He won't settle cases. Ever. Too easy.

Man, so much to go over.....

Problem with bringing Apple in the US to manufacture their technology is that the price would most likely increase and make it even harder to afford.

 

[kkck]

Problem with bringing Apple in the US to manufacture their technology is that the price would most likely increase and make it even harder to afford.

Well, that really depends on the details regarding their industry.... As in supply chains, how much manual labor influences cost, automation.... As I mentioned earlier, many companies have actually returned to producing at the US because labor is not as much of a factor as it used to be and shorter supply chains save time and money. If you look around in google, apple has in fact been looking to US manufacturing for a while. It might be years until this is back it is not unconscionable that they would at some point in the future they would produce their stuff here. Only to make everything here with virtually no labor and pay no taxes on anything due to all the tax breaks they got to return (with the government not even bothering to look into whether the tax breaks would be much of a factor in them being at the US anyways).

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2016 ---

So.... trump is looking to have patreaus in his cabinet? What is he trying to prove?

 

[M3J]

I know, but I'm just saying why they/others might not support Apple manufacturing their products in the US.

Trump sucks. that's all.

 

[kkck]

I know, but I'm just saying why they/others might not support Apple manufacturing their products in the US.

Trump sucks. that's all.

Who is they? Apple? but if so, who are the others? I don't really know what you are talking about.

 

[M3J]

Apple and its consumers that care about prices.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

I suppose it'll be different based on the prices of the materials. Trade is always an efficient method to save money when it comes to materials.

 

[shionoro]

I cannot even wrap my head arround that people talk about trump as being an actual politician with having actual policies.

It seems very clear cut to me that he is not. He cares for his ego and the accumulation of more wealth and power, and for that, the only thing relevant that he won't step back on is his tax cut.
Everything else he might do is just to appease the people who voted for him (some halfassed fence at the mexican border maybe, some step back on abortion rights and if they are lucky the extension of stop and frisk rules).
Anything he might say about bringing back jobs from china or making corps come back to the US is pure fabrication.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

I'm just going to wait and see how his supporters who believed his spitting lies would react once they finally realize he backs out on a couple of his notable promises in his void policies.

 

[kkck]

I cannot even wrap my head arround that people talk about trump as being an actual politician with having actual policies.

It seems very clear cut to me that he is not. He cares for his ego and the accumulation of more wealth and power, and for that, the only thing relevant that he won't step back on is his tax cut.
Everything else he might do is just to appease the people who voted for him (some halfassed fence at the mexican border maybe, some step back on abortion rights and if they are lucky the extension of stop and frisk rules).
Anything he might say about bringing back jobs from china or making corps come back to the US is pure fabrication.

What confuses me to be honest is the notion that he has to be given a chance.... That's... not how this works at all. Sure, he is the president and he must do his 4 years and all. But there is a ton of uncertainty on multiple ends and however stupid he has made a ton of campaign promises. Give him a chance because he might do a good job? What does trump doing a good job even means?

Say, we had obama saying trump must be given a chance to prove himself... Does that mean we expect him to deliver or not on his campaign promises? Does that mean US folk are supposed to give a chance to tax cuts, even though they didn't work under reagan, did not work under bush, and did not work under obama? Or does he mean we shouldn't expect him to try to do the stuff he promised and he actually be a center democrat or progressive?

As far as policy goes, he lacks a plan but he certainly does have policy which are bound to shape up as his administration goes on. And it's basically what you should expect from the people he has appointed. So as soon as his presidency starts we will start seeing him fumble his way through his policies.... He will try to lower taxes, he will try to reinstate the muslim registry... He will deport people but the issue would be whether he actually succeeds in deporting more people than obama. And he will certainly have his businesses profiting. And he will also have an incredibly aggressive foreign policy. The big mysteries are whether he actually brings back torture (hopefully he listens to common sense), how he handles obamacare, planned parenthood (the guy is obviously dishonest about being pro-life but the issue here is how he will be pressured by people around him). And perhaps, all of those questions can be answered by looking at pence....

So yeah, go ahead america, give the orange clown a chance.

 

[shionoro]

What confuses me to be honest is the notion that he has to be given a chance.... That's... not how this works at all. Sure, he is the president and he must do his 4 years and all. But there is a ton of uncertainty on multiple ends and however stupid he has made a ton of campaign promises. Give him a chance because he might do a good job? What does trump doing a good job even means?

Say, we had obama saying trump must be given a chance to prove himself... Does that mean we expect him to deliver or not on his campaign promises? Does that mean US folk are supposed to give a chance to tax cuts, even though they didn't work under reagan, did not work under bush, and did not work under obama? Or does he mean we shouldn't expect him to try to do the stuff he promised and he actually be a center democrat or progressive?

As far as policy goes, he lacks a plan but he certainly does have policy which are bound to shape up as his administration goes on. And it's basically what you should expect from the people he has appointed. So as soon as his presidency starts we will start seeing him fumble his way through his policies.... He will try to lower taxes, he will try to reinstate the muslim registry... He will deport people but the issue would be whether he actually succeeds in deporting more people than obama. And he will certainly have his businesses profiting. And he will also have an incredibly aggressive foreign policy. The big mysteries are whether he actually brings back torture (hopefully he listens to common sense), how he handles obamacare, planned parenthood (the guy is obviously dishonest about being pro-life but the issue here is how he will be pressured by people around him). And perhaps, all of those questions can be answered by looking at pence....

So yeah, go ahead america, give the orange clown a chance.

Yes, exactly, i completely agree.
I mean, every action he has done in his campaign and now since he is elected would deny him any chance he might have been given.
Why do I need to give someone who appoints (and i am going to use that term) neo nazis as his advisors?
Either you would have to think that he lied in basically everything he said or that he will run the US down the drain.
In both cases he deserves no chance but every opposition that can be mustered up.

I don't think he will succeed in anything (cept the tax cut), but he will certainly make it seem that way.
He will build a little fence and say he built a wall. he will deport some mexicans and say that he threw half of the 'rapists' out and so on.
And if ppl get suspicious he can always find another scapegoat or announce some new extreme measure he will pull off half assedly.

 

[M3J]

Fuck what Obama says, Trump lost his chance when he appointed deplorable people. Not only that, but the horrible people that are supporting Trump are just....

 

[shionoro]

This is the difference between politicians who take responsibility and those who do not.
Obama and Clinton tried to mend at least some of the damage done.

But this is exactly what the people who hate on them always blame them for: Not speaking their honest opinion.
I do think that the democratic movement needs someone like sanders to unite behind against what is happening right now.
Many people who thought people like sanders or warren were too extreme are probably more open to it in the image of a trump presidency, too.

 

[kkck]

This is the difference between politicians who take responsibility and those who do not.
Obama and Clinton tried to mend at least some of the damage done.

But this is exactly what the people who hate on them always blame them for: Not speaking their honest opinion.
I do think that the democratic movement needs someone like sanders to unite behind against what is happening right now.
Many people who thought people like sanders or warren were too extreme are probably more open to it in the image of a trump presidency, too.

From what I have read it does seem like people on the more progressive end are being heard more but at the same time the democrat establishment is very much resisting this. So far they seem to have named tim kaine (finally remembered his name), obama 2.0, hillary 2.0 and a bunch of other uninteresting people who are very much liked by donors, center demorcrats but would be as vicerally hated as clinton. Well, perhaps a bit less considering the decade long smear campaign against her but barring that they would overall be equally flawed and their main merit would remain "not as bad as trump". Well, if the trump presidency is as much a disaster as his cabinet picks suggest (obamacare is without a speck of a doubt getting gutted, education will be further privatized and white supremacy is still running strong which is a pretty strong "fuck you" to people who are stupid enough to be born poor or worst, with color; thanks for that democrats) then perhaps it won't even matter how much these guys sell out to interests because the people they sold out to are not quite as bad as the people republicans sold out to this time around (all the usual private interests but also white supremacists with a hint of russia).

 

[M3J]

This is the difference between politicians who take responsibility and those who do not.
Obama and Clinton tried to mend at least some of the damage done.

But this is exactly what the people who hate on them always blame them for: Not speaking their honest opinion.
I do think that the democratic movement needs someone like sanders to unite behind against what is happening right now.
Many people who thought people like sanders or warren were too extreme are probably more open to it in the image of a trump presidency, too.

IT's funny because Trump rarely does that either, he usually lies and says dumb things, and people chalk it up to honesty/not being politically correct. Politicians unfortunately can't speak their honest opinion, because politicking isn't about being honest.

The democrats need to give themselves a complete overhaul. Just plucking Bernie or Warren won't help, not when people are disillusioned with the party. If by next election the republicans choose someone actually competent, then who knows how that'll go even when Bernie is better.

 

[shionoro]

IT's funny because Trump rarely does that either, he usually lies and says dumb things, and people chalk it up to honesty/not being politically correct. Politicians unfortunately can't speak their honest opinion, because politicking isn't about being honest.

The democrats need to give themselves a complete overhaul. Just plucking Bernie or Warren won't help, not when people are disillusioned with the party. If by next election the republicans choose someone actually competent, then who knows how that'll go even when Bernie is better.

I dont agree with you here.
This is not about the democratic party anymore.
The people who woulda voted dems but thought clinton will win either way and didnt like her were still shocked by president trump.
In the next election i rather see negative effects for the reps than for the dems.
I mean, come on, the reps dishing out trump and showing they got no spine was at least as disillusioning as anything the dems did.

 

[kkck]

I dont agree with you here.
This is not about the democratic party anymore.
The people who woulda voted dems but thought clinton will win either way and didnt like her were still shocked by president trump.
In the next election i rather see negative effects for the reps than for the dems.
I mean, come on, the reps dishing out trump and showing they got no spine was at least as disillusioning as anything the dems did.

I think you vastly overestimate how much republicans will be disillusioned by trump. This is where the whole "tribal war" comes in. Republicans will absolutely overlook stuff trump or his team does as long as their agenda moves forward. In the exact same way democrats overlooked a ton of crap obama did. Sure, there will be people who won't like trump and whatnot.... It is by no means certain that 4 years from now even republicans will hate trump. Democrats absolutely need a good candidate to not only beat trump but to support them getting back (or maintaining depending on the elections two years from now) the house and the senate. If they go with obama 2.0 or hillary 2.0 the election might end up being about as uncertain as this one. Without a speck of a doubt republicans have a more than severe demographic issue (which is why they have lost the majority of past elections and probably why trump lost the popular vote) but they still need a candidate that excites people and has a genuine interest in the middle classes.