American Politics

[M3J]

Just that he, his siblings, and his father are horrible people. But it makes me wonder if they're idiots on purpose for a reason....

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Well, him admitting that there were collusion of obtaining information from their opponent definitely shed some light that the Russiagate is gaining some credibility.
Haven't caught up with the story, but basically from what I've understood: it's basically Trump Jr. obtaining information regarding to Hillary from a foreign agency, which almost sounds identical to the Watergate Scandal where Nixon's men broke into the DNC.

 

[kkck]

Well, him admitting that there were collusion of obtaining information from their opponent definitely shed some light that the Russiagate is gaining some credibility.
Haven't caught up with the story, but basically from what I've understood: it's basically Trump Jr. obtaining information regarding to Hillary from a foreign agency, which almost sounds identical to the Watergate Scandal where Nixon's men broke into the DNC.

From what I can tell this would be more like proving that the guy attempted to collude with Russia. Which frankly, is a fair bit more than I thought could ever come out of the actual investigation. Not that this came from the Russia probe, I am just saying I didn't expect this much even from them. Mostly because the collusion itself seems pointless from the Russian point of view. Unless they had some plan beyond the collusion like an actual deal with trump or even actual dirt on him....

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2017 ---

So one of the things we have been wondering on whether (or when) it was going to happen finally happened: trump switched sides on syria. Well, perhaps that is the worst possible implication of that but putting it more literally he effectively ended support of anti assad rebels there. I am not sure if that is a good or bad move though. It is at least a bit awkward though. As with the past bombing here, the issue here is the plan and endgame and whether there is one. I guess we gotta wait and see... The kremlin must be buying vodka by containers though.

 

[Juliana]

The US Consulate here in Rio de Janeiro (Brazil) is localized on Mexican Street.
I wonder if Trump is going to build a wall around it.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Spicer resigns. Damn, gonna miss that clown bastard.

Meanwhile, on a scale of French way of saying "Sorry" to a Tyrant being above the Law, where do you guys put Trump and his suspicious behavior in Pardoning people?

 

[M3J]

Looks like John McCain is not the hero we thought he was. Voted for BCRA or whatever BS the republicans are calling their new plan... it's sad.

 

[kkck]

Mccain is quite the joker I guess. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest his speech made more sense to actual republicans than to people outside his party. Because from my perspective at least it looked like he spoke against the insanity which is the republican's bill but then immediately went to vote for it.

 

[Styx]

You guys thought McCain was a hero? Why?

 

[M3J]

I didn't and don't see him as a hero given all things, but he's more respectable than most republicans. Plus, he did serve.

But he gets brownie points for voting no against screwing people out of ACA and replacing it with a shitty healthcare that'd hurt so many people.

Can't wait until Trump and his lackeys are kicked out or die.

 

[James Rye]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/...imes&smtyp=cur&referer=http://m.facebook.com/

Well, that was fast. Scaramucci made only ten days in the white house before he was fired. Who's next in line for the communication job?

 

[kkck]

I was really looking forward to hearing what scaramucci had to say. I figured he would be as hilarious as sean spicer.... Though to be fair, they haven't said if scaramucci will have some other position or not yet. It does seem like the most likely scenario is that he is out though. So.... does trump even have any staff right now? It kinda seems like he has a severe shortage of people and the only voice in his ear now will be bannon's...

 

[Newkerzy]

I thought Bannon got kicked out?

 

[kkck]

I thought Bannon got kicked out?

Not that I know of. I think he switched from some position to another a few months back though. In any case, he is still there...

 

[Styx]

Well I don't want a more insane version of Obamacare (despite people seeming to think its the coming of christ) so it is good that they aren't just going to throw aside Obamacare and write in something equally disastrous (but hey, maybe it'll be read this time first?) but as one of millions who have suffered because of this "beautiful health care act" I want it gone.

I just don't want it removed without some good plan behind it or none at all to fuck over even more people, especially the poor. McCain wasn't voting no because he's some hero though. He's among the worst of the Republican scum (which, just like for the left, is pretty much all of them). So while I'll agree he did what was for the best, I disagree on the integrity of his character.

~~~~~​

Also, anyone see the news about Seymour Hersh's leaked audio discussing how Seth Rich was the DNC leaker and how the FBI etc knew he was but decided to go with the completely fake "Russia hack story"? Of course I now expect 100% for mainstream media to attack and disregard one of the most intelligent, respectable investigative journalists in all of America as "completely unreliable". I mean they've done it with Wikileaks, which has yet to be proven false/lies even by our own government, so why not?

There are other recording leaks too, if you guys want to hear them. You can hear them via Wikileaks or Wikileaks' twitter. Because I very much doubt that CNN, Fox etc will air any of them.

 

[M3J]

This era will be known as the era where despite information at our fingertips, people still believed Trump's bullshit. Dark time for our future indeed.

 

[Styx]

What kind of bullshit? And by "information at their fingers" do you mean places like CNN, MSNBC etc that have been caught on and off camera (recordings, audio, emails, etc) that all they are peddling is fiction for views? The Obama admin spied on Trump for years. Found nothing. DNC tried to trap him via his son. Nothing illegal/wrong came of it just the realization how low the DNC will go. Julian Assange looked into him (and others). Found nothing on him but everything "dirty" on Clinton. The only crime Trump has committed was offending the left field of politics with his "America/ns first" sentiments and the money grubbing, soulless scum of the right finding the concept of health care to be the work of the damn devil.

I think it is fearmongering to say things like that, something people have been saying since Day 1 of his presidency and all we have to show for these supposed dark times? All-time low unemployment, all time high with the DOW, hundreds of thousands of new jobs and promises of more by many companies, fewer harmful regulations, proper enforcement of our immigration laws (which keep us safer and saves us $$$), scaring ISIS off more than the red carpet they got under the last admin, horrible trade deal kill offs and now, as he works against two corrupt sides, trying to make a good HC solution that he promised during his campaign.

At the end of his term when he announces he's running again and the country is functioning better than it has in the last 16 years or at least 9, the left will scream he'll tear the world apart with bigotry but again nothing will come of it but the fearful rambling of the far left and right into the wind.

 

[kkck]

What kind of bullshit? And by "information at their fingers" do you mean places like CNN, MSNBC etc that have been caught on and off camera (recordings, audio, emails, etc) that all they are peddling is fiction for views? The Obama admin spied on Trump for years. Found nothing. DNC tried to trap him via his son. Nothing illegal/wrong came of it just the realization how low the DNC will go. Julian Assange looked into him (and others). Found nothing on him but everything "dirty" on Clinton. The only crime Trump has committed was offending the left field of politics with his "America/ns first" sentiments and the money grubbing, soulless scum of the right finding the concept of health care to be the work of the damn devil.

I think it is fearmongering to say things like that, something people have been saying since Day 1 of his presidency and all we have to show for these supposed dark times? All-time low unemployment, all time high with the DOW, hundreds of thousands of new jobs and promises of more by many companies, fewer harmful regulations, proper enforcement of our immigration laws (which keep us safer and saves us $$$), scaring ISIS off more than the red carpet they got under the last admin, horrible trade deal kill offs and now, as he works against two corrupt sides, trying to make a good HC solution that he promised during his campaign.

At the end of his term when he announces he's running again and the country is functioning better than it has in the last 16 years or at least 9, the left will scream he'll tear the world apart with bigotry but again nothing will come of it but the fearful rambling of the far left and right into the wind.

Obama spied on trump for years? What are you basing that on? Why would obama even do that for "years"? Trump wasn't even politically relevant until the republican primaries. As for the thing with trump's son... If you mean erick and his meeting that is still ongoing. And arguably it will be months, if not years, until it is over.

As for the bold part... This is not an all time low for unemployment. Obama did all of those things. Well, to be more specific, those happened during obama's presidency. Wall street has been breaking records for many consecutive years now. And even then, if trump thinks that wall street doing fine is a good indicator of how his presidency is doing, then he is making the same mistake obama and democrats made for years. Assuming wall street doing fine means the entire economy is doing fine is a horrible mistake. None of the middle class people trump or obama were supposed to be for are better of because of it, wall street is about 30 or 40% of the economy after all. As for enforcement of immigration laws, obama absolutely did that. Obama was, up to the end of his terms of course, the president that had deported the most people of all presidents. Over 3 million people were deported under obama...

And trump has done nothing to scare isis. Trump didn't even have anything to do with the mosul operation, that started months before even the election. Trump's isis record is objectively terrible. He promised he would eradicate isis in 30 days. Which he obviously has not. Heck, not only was that a lie but even the bit about him having a plan to fight isis. The first thing trump did when he became president is to give the military an order to come up with a plan to eradicate isis in 30 days. Which A) Is proof he never had a plan to begin with and B) He didn't even intend on doing anything on isis as he basically delegated everything to the military immediately. And the consequence of delegating this stuff so far seems to be more civilian casualties than there used to be.

And he has yet to change a single trade deal. The only one where he might have had some measure of influence is TPP but that one was practically dead by the time trump got to the presidency anyways. All trump did regarding trade deals so far is sign an executive order to revise them... And once trump finally gets to doing something here, which he can, it will take at least months of negotiations with trading partners to finish anything and then more months before anyone can even estimate whether it was a good or bad thing.

As for HC... What are you talking about? Trump got completely behind the republican health care alternative. He never cared about what was in it, he just wanted something passed. When did he ever try to push his party towards passing anything even vaguely resembling the universal health care systems he complemented so often? Trump's greatest accomplishment regarding health care is saying "nobody knew health care was so complicated".

 

[xi0]

I understand people's distrust of the mainstream media when it comes to any number of things, but I don't think them being "against" Trump's Presidency (outside of the Fox News talking heads) means that Trump is doing something/anything right. Nor is Trump any kind of remedy either. He's a completely different type of disease.

 

[kkck]

And things get even spicier in the trump case with the grand jury mueller impaneled... Lets see what trump tweets about that now lol.

 

[Styx]

It got a bit long. If I rambled too long on one point or wasn't clear enough, just say so. I'll be glad to elaborate. I was a bit tired writing it.

Spoiler

Obama spied on trump for years? What are you basing that on? Why would obama even do that for "years"? Trump wasn't even politically relevant until the republican primaries. As for the thing with trump's son... If you mean erick and his meeting that is still ongoing. And arguably it will be months, if not years, until it is over.

I'm referring to the story CNN, Washington Post, New York Times, BBC, MSNBC, NBC, Vice etc won't report on. When the Obama admin requested a FISA warrant on not only Trump's transition team and adviser (Carter Page) but on Trump himself, though they deny this. This is were the majority of phone call leaks etc came out, like for Michael Flynn. Susan Rice took the downfall for these actions.

We also have former deputy assistant secretary of defense under Obama, Evelyn Farkas, admitting there were dozens of attempts by the Obama administration to obtain information on Trump in whatever means necessary. Even using Carter's dealings with Russia as an excuse to say there was collusion between Trump and Russia.


Nunes also confirmed the information that was collected or trying to be collected had, and I quote, does not "have anything to do with Russia." (he's seen dozens of the reports by the way). This is also how much of the unmasking [for Trump] came to be. It speaks volumes how after this information came out the FBI refused (and still is, I'm assuming) to cooperate with the House of Representatives' investigation into the [NSA] surveillance of the Trump campaign. Here's some of what he said:

"We don’t actually know yet officially what happened to General Flynn," Nunes said of how communications from Gen. Flynn's calls were leaked to the press. "We just know that his name leaked out but we don't know how it was picked up yet. That was one of the things that we asked for in the March 15th letter, was for the NSA, CIA, and FBI to get us all the unmasking that was done."

"And I'll tell you, NSA is being cooperative," Nunes continued, "but so far the FBI has not told us whether or not they’re going to respond to our March 15th letter, which is now a couple of weeks old.”

(the letter deals with the surveillance, the unmasking etc)

Over 30,000 people additionally were unmasked under the Obama admin connected to Trump, ranging from just supporters to his staff, to Congress etc.

And before the election conclusion, Hillary Clinton tweeted something very telling. Information (though unsurprising false) grabbed via the spying. Information collected prior to Trump winning. Information she would not have had otherwise.



And yea, if it is up to the Democrats, it'll go on for years despite them having absolutely nothing to proof their fiction. Simply talking to or meeting with a Russian doesn't = collusion with Russia. The fear the left has of Russia/Russians is astounding...

As for the bold part... This is not an all time low for unemployment. Obama did all of those things. Well, to be more specific, those happened during obama's presidency. Wall street has been breaking records for many consecutive years now. And even then, if trump thinks that wall street doing fine is a good indicator of how his presidency is doing, then he is making the same mistake obama and democrats made for years. Assuming wall street doing fine means the entire economy is doing fine is a horrible mistake. None of the middle class people trump or obama were supposed to be for are better of because of it, wall street is about 30 or 40% of the economy after all. As for enforcement of immigration laws, obama absolutely did that. Obama was, up to the end of his terms of course, the president that had deported the most people of all presidents. Over 3 million people were deported under obama...

It most certainly is at an all time low. And yes unemployment fell some under Obama, sure (and I applaud him for what he could do), but are you trying to say that current growth is the doing of Obama? It didn't somehow magically start working the moment he stepped out of office. This is because of Trump's efforts at creating deals with getting companies to promise or create more jobs, opening up coal mining again etc etc. All of which Obama himself said was "impossible", that it would require a "magical wand".

And I agree about that. I do not want him to just ride off his success and just assume everything is going fine like Obama started to do. That's when it starts to fall and most likely fall harder than before.

Hmm, I find that hard to agree with. He was pro-immigration laws? Even though Obama enforced immigration law when he, on television, asked illegal immigrants to vote? When he advocated and allowed "sanctuary cities" to exist? When he refused to call them "illegal immigrants" but instead "dreamers"? When he turned a blind eye to the dozens and dozens of criminals who crossed our border and harmed citizens? No...no he didn't respect or enforce our laws. That's evident by his own actions and words and the state in which ICE has been dealing with now that Trump is in office.

Deporting illegals quietly behind screen while vocally talking against it and refusing to enforce our laws (look above) is not supporting it. Even if he deported 3m people.

And trump has done nothing to scare isis. Trump didn't even have anything to do with the mosul operation, that started months before even the election. Trump's isis record is objectively terrible. He promised he would eradicate isis in 30 days. Which he obviously has not. Heck, not only was that a lie but even the bit about him having a plan to fight isis. The first thing trump did when he became president is to give the military an order to come up with a plan to eradicate isis in 30 days. Which A) Is proof he never had a plan to begin with and B) He didn't even intend on doing anything on isis as he basically delegated everything to the military immediately. And the consequence of delegating this stuff so far seems to be more civilian casualties than there used to be.

He's not even a year in and his progress has been pretty great against ISIS, even while the left leaks classified information that destroys sensitive ISIS related missions and endangers its operatives. He's got to work against ISIS and domestic groups wishing to undermine him anyway they can.

Trump's dealing in a post-Obama world where he released terrorists that have, unsurprisingly, gone on to commit more acts of terror or rejoin their terrorist cells.

And okay...so if not being able to eradicate ISIS in 30 days (which is not what he said) makes Trump a liar, what about all of Obama's broken, forgotten or disregarded promises? Is Obama a liar? Or is he a victim of circumstances? Or do we just condemn Trump for these things? And his plan was to fight ISIS, something the previous admin was pretty reluctant to even talk about or call it what it is.

(And no, he has a plan, but the left is whining that it looks "too much like Obama's". And this is what Trump said, by the way:

“We are going to convene my top generals and give them a simple instruction. They will have 30 days to submit to the Oval Office a plan for soundly and quickly defeating ISIS. We have no choice.”

He also said he'd bomb the hell out of them. Which using the MOAB, killing a little over 100 terrorists, seems like "bombing the hell out of them" to me. Also, he did voice some aspects of the plan he said he had. Even...god I hate mentioning it...politifact doesn't consider this a lie etc.

I'd just like to focus more on the fact that he never said he'd defeat ISIS within 30 days. He said he'd demand a plan to defeat ISIS within 30 days. Which he did. And given the fact that his main problem with previous plans was that they spoke about their plans too much, why would he be screaming it off the roof tops?

And he has yet to change a single trade deal. The only one where he might have had some measure of influence is TPP but that one was practically dead by the time trump got to the presidency anyways. All trump did regarding trade deals so far is sign an executive order to revise them... And once trump finally gets to doing something here, which he can, it will take at least months of negotiations with trading partners to finish anything and then more months before anyone can even estimate whether it was a good or bad thing.

I said "kill offs". He has killed off trade deals that would not have benefited us whatsoever. He's also in negotiations constantly at trying to replace them with better deals.

Okay? Sure, it could take months, but it is better than letting a deal that would ruin us go through. And what makes you think it was "practically" dead? Hillary Clinton*, Obama and many other liberals were very fond of it by referring to it as a "gold standard" and all.

*As soon as a wiser business man pointed out it was crap, she changed her tune. Which she has no problem with admitting she does just get more voters/allies.

As for HC... What are you talking about? Trump got completely behind the republican health care alternative. He never cared about what was in it, he just wanted something passed. When did he ever try to push his party towards passing anything even vaguely resembling the universal health care systems he complemented so often? Trump's greatest accomplishment regarding health care is saying "nobody knew health care was so complicated".

He didn't just want something passed. He does, however, want it repealed immediately as it is crap wrapped in christmas wrapping paper.

He's been trying to do nothing but that. The trick is getting the left and the right to help, repeal and pass something that is good or they will accept (which is almost impossible for the Republicans as they disagree with the platform he ran/wants).

The bills proposed don't deliver enough for us, Trump or the promises though and I agree on that. Now that the Republicans have turned their backs though it'll be a lot harder. At this point, if we know for a fact they won't play nice and help create a better HC with the Democrats, I'd settle on at least a skinny repeal of Obamacare. The best step taken so far was the removal of that penalty.

(The latest news is that Trump is considering an EO about HC by the way)

I understand people's distrust of the mainstream media when it comes to any number of things, but I don't think them being "against" Trump's Presidency (outside of the Fox News talking heads) means that Trump is doing something/anything right. Nor is Trump any kind of remedy either. He's a completely different type of disease.

Well Trump being disliked by the media isn't why I think he's doing something right. I just think it kind of confirms that his agendas do not align with multi billion $ companies that aim to mass control news and that is a bit telling.