American Politics

[M3J]

The Democrats shouldn't be happy about this, if they truly care about people. The ones who will suffer from this are government employees, just because Trump is being even more of a shithead than usual. Another problem is that he'll keep blaming the Democrats for this, and his supporters will believe his bullshit as usual.

 

[Reebi]

So, the shutdown starts.... On one hand, democrat should be ecstatic that trump is shooting himself in the foot over this. Democrats would even have pressure from their base and then some to not yield. On the other hand, both parties are ultimately controlled by their donors and they hate shutdowns so both democrats and republicans will be pressed to find a solution so to speak. Even though politically it makes more sense for democrats to just let trump keep digging... This seems like an easy win for democrats (not for government workers though) but I am afraid they just might be incompetent to cave.... On an issue where the majority of the country opposes trump.

Trump has shot his foot many times; his ass more times and dig himself a huge ass hole I’m sure it reached China and back. Yet, somehow he is still running the country and has support

 

[Core D. Roy]

The Democrats shouldn't be happy about this, if they truly care about people. The ones who will suffer from this are government employees, just because Trump is being even more of a shithead than usual. Another problem is that he'll keep blaming the Democrats for this, and his supporters will believe his bullshit as usual.

Democrats won the mid-terms in LARGE part because nobody wants a damn wall except Trump's relatively small base. The country shouldn't have a gun to it's head because of a symbolic wall. Anyway, a bi-partisan funding bill was already passed and McConnell shot it down for his master. The ball is entirely in Trump/McConnell's court and they're content just shitting on the concrete and taking the ball home.

There's a reason the shut-down happened just as Dems entered power. He's manufacturing a crisis to establish he can get anything he wants by holding the whole damn government ransom. There's a lot more going on here than the suffering of a shit ton of people. It's the potential for there to be a WHOLE lot more suffering later on when he demands more and more by just doing this over and over.

This precedent is incredibly dangerous. It's not just a battle of 'who's right'.

 

[SharkBait]

Democratic leaders should just approve the Steel Fence and reopen the gov't. They are more likely to budge than President Trump is, unlike them and their future political careers, he doesnt have anything to worry about and clearly doesnt care about how bad he looks.

We need to stop hurting federal workers and their family, and reopen the gov't.

 

[kkck]

Democrats won the mid-terms in LARGE part because nobody wants a damn wall except Trump's relatively small base. The country shouldn't have a gun to it's head because of a symbolic wall. Anyway, a bi-partisan funding bill was already passed and McConnell shot it down for his master. The ball is entirely in Trump/McConnell's court and they're content just shitting on the concrete and taking the ball home.

There's a reason the shut-down happened just as Dems entered power. He's manufacturing a crisis to establish he can get anything he wants by holding the whole damn government ransom. There's a lot more going on here than the suffering of a shit ton of people. It's the potential for there to be a WHOLE lot more suffering later on when he demands more and more by just doing this over and over.

This precedent is incredibly dangerous. It's not just a battle of 'who's right'.

I am not sure if the wall specifically is that important to the blue wave but you have a good point on your second paragraph. If democrats cave they will have compromised their own agenda for the next two years by validating a shutdown as a way for trump to get what he wants in spite of congress.... Add to that the political damage either side would suffer with the bases they are trying to appeal to if they budge. I think you are correct about the ball being in trump/mcconnell's court but I also get the impression democrats aren't doing enough to get public opinion to further turn on trump. Neither side has motivation to budge so far but if public opinion turns further from trump then the ones feeling the pressure would be senate republicans. And IF they take a budget proposal for a vote and it pases the senate then its over for trump... Unless trump is in the mood to fight democrats and republicans on this.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I am not sure if the wall specifically is that important to the blue wave but you have a good point on your second paragraph. If democrats cave they will have compromised their own agenda for the next two years by validating a shutdown as a way for trump to get what he wants in spite of congress.... Add to that the political damage either side would suffer with the bases they are trying to appeal to if they budge. I think you are correct about the ball being in trump/mcconnell's court but I also get the impression democrats aren't doing enough to get public opinion to further turn on trump. Neither side has motivation to budge so far but if public opinion turns further from trump then the ones feeling the pressure would be senate republicans. And IF they take a budget proposal for a vote and it pases the senate then its over for trump... Unless trump is in the mood to fight democrats and republicans on this.

The old guard are doing their stale routine (seriously Pelosi and Schumer at that clown car podium was pretty cringey), but the new guard is slowly blooming in this swamp. Time for the old dems to give them more of a spotlight in moments like this that could sway public opinion. Unfortunately, Trump's base is invincibly ignorant, dems have no choice but to stay banded together with other dems they don't like quite as much as their guy, and the remaining third of the country will seemingly never give a shit about having a voice or even a passing knowledge about wtf is going on. I can't count how many times IRL I've heard the phrase "I just don't do/pay attention to politics" in the last two years. Apathy is still the worst part of american politics and this shutdown ain't changing it until tax season doesn't happen.

Unfortunately even the corrupt af Senate can and has passed budget bills (even unanimously) as recently as today iirc, and it's all dust in the wind to McConnell. Dude is content being the congressional equivalent of kingsguard for Trump and there ain't much the rest of the country can do. Two old dudes can just burn everything down and there's little anyone can do to stop it.

 

[kkck]

The old guard are doing their stale routine (seriously Pelosi and Schumer at that clown car podium was pretty cringey), but the new guard is slowly blooming in this swamp. Time for the old dems to give them more of a spotlight in moments like this that could sway public opinion. Unfortunately, Trump's base is invincibly ignorant, dems have no choice but to stay banded together with other dems they don't like quite as much as their guy, and the remaining third of the country will seemingly never give a shit about having a voice or even a passing knowledge about wtf is going on. I can't count how many times IRL I've heard the phrase "I just don't do/pay attention to politics" in the last two years. Apathy is still the worst part of american politics and this shutdown ain't changing it until tax season doesn't happen.

Unfortunately even the corrupt af Senate can and has passed budget bills (even unanimously) as recently as today iirc, and it's all dust in the wind to McConnell. Dude is content being the congressional equivalent of kingsguard for Trump and there ain't much the rest of the country can do. Two old dudes can just burn everything down and there's little anyone can do to stop it.

Heh, Pelosi and Schumer are too busy doing the exact opposite of giving the spotlight to a potential new guard... Which is perhaps why they seem so inept at swaying public opinion further on this.

I'd say dem's have to band together regardless of trump supporters invincible ignorance. Hillary tried to appeal to conservatives during the 2016 election and look at all she has to show for it. Shame, regret and she will die knowing she is at a minimum partially responsible for a trump presidency. And even before the 2016 election, I am not aware of a single instance of democrats making a concession to republicans and republicans making a concession in return.

If republicans in government won't ever make a concession to democrats, and trump supporter ignorance does not find its kryptonite and standard republican voters won't ever under any circumstances vote democrat then the only reasonable course of action for democrats is to plant their feet and appeal to democrats, liberals/progressives and independents exclusively. Who make up the majority of the country anyways.

 

[M3J]

How to argue like a Trump supporter:

Call everything fake news or call the person you're arguing with brainwashed from mainstream media
Resort to "what-about" even when the "what about this" you're referring to is different/has no relation to the topic at hand
Link to obviously biased or dumb videos to back up your point
Ironically use fake news to back up your point

 

[SharkBait]

Still waiting for democratic leaders to meet the president so we can get the shutdown ended. With wh staff furloughed trump is sitting there alone waiting.

I have a flight this weekend. I'd honestly hope I dont have insanely long TSA wait times.

 

[xi0]

I'd gladly wait in insanely long TSA lines if it meant preventing funding for a nonsensical wall and property not being taken from American citizens.

Now, if I was a federal employee depending on a paycheck maybe I'd think differently. However, complaining about wait times at the airport seems like the definition of first-world problems and not a life or death situation.

 

[SharkBait]

I dont understand, what are they waiting for!

Not meeting makes it seem like they dont care about reopening the shutdown portion of our gov't.

 

[kkck]

What did you expect? In their last meeting trump threw a tantrum and left..... Add to that that the house has passed several funding bills which keep getting blocked at the senate.

 

[xi0]

The Wall is more important to him than a functioning government. He admitted that when he said he'd take all of the blame. Of course, you can't take him at his word on anything though, so that'll likely change once 2020 gets closer.

It sort of begs the question why this was left for AFTER Dems took control of the House though. It's not as if Trump benefits from conflict and misdirection or anything.

 

[SharkBait]

The Wall is more important to him than a functioning government.

The democrats should be interested in, you know, governing a functional government. They should comprise and focus on bringing the real issues their constituents want to the table. Not try to beat Trump at his own game.

 

[xi0]

The democrats should be interested in, you know, governing a functional government. They should comprise and focus on bringing the real issues their constituents want to the table. Not try to beat Trump at his own game.

Except the part where funding bills have passed in the House with Republican support and McConnell doesn't do anything with them because he wants Trump's approval. I guess ole Mitchy boy only considers the Legislative and Executive as coequal branches of the government when he's in opposition of the President. That's convenient.

The problem with compromise is Trump views compromise as him getting everything he wants, and not conceding on anything he doesn't.

 

[kkck]

Except the part where funding bills have passed in the House with Republican support and McConnell doesn't do anything with them because he wants Trump's approval. I guess ole Mitchy boy only considers the Legislative and Executive as coequal branches of the government when he's in opposition of the President. That's convenient.

The problem with compromise is Trump views compromise as him getting everything he wants, and not conceding on anything he doesn't.

Have republicans compromised with democrats at all over the past 10 years? Most of the cases I know are from the Obama era of course but I don't recall a single instance where democrats made a compromise and got anything out of republicans. As far as I can tell the republican party as a whole took a hardline no compromise stand back when Obama became president. More than that, neither party is looking for a compromise. Nor can they afford one. Trump doesn't really have any other means to get funding for his border wall meaning that it is now or never. democrats are answering to their own base right now and a majority of the country opposes the wall. With that in mind, a concession would be a disaster for either side. Add to that the slight decrease in trump's approval since the shutdown started... Democrats would end up looking like idiots if they made any significant concessions here. A concession here would be an outright betrayal to their constituents given the circumstances.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2019 ---

Another funding bill was blocked for the senate. There is something about this that I don't quite understand though. Senate republicans are, to my understanding, blocking bills so that they do not reach Trump. Because the bills would get vetoed by trump. This in turn is meant to avoid the political fallout of having trump veto a bill that was approved by congress and the senate. But.... why doesn't the senate not even voting on this generate as much damage? Specially if it rather overtly seems like they are protecting trump. I feel like I am missing something.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2019 ---

Gotta say, Nancy Pelosi is such a bad politician... As in, how can someone be so bad at politics after having been at it for so long?

Pelosi: We should postpone the State of the Union because lack of funding for intelligence agencies pose a security threat.
Intelligence agencies: Nah, we good.
Trump: Pelosi's travel plans to egypt should be cancelled due to the shutdown.

As in, how do you get owned this badly this easily? The shutdown gives democrats nearly limitless tools to attack and hurt trump politically and pelosi and her people are literally this incapable of using it. Clinton gave us trump in 2016 and Pelosi might as well gives us trump in 2020... Ok, to be fair trump's 2020 depends on who they chose to run as a candidate for that election and odds are pelosi herself doing so much damage so as to have that huge an impact is unlikely but still... It's unbelievable how incompetent she is at this.

 

[SharkBait]

Pelosi: We should postpone the State of the Union because lack of funding for intelligence agencies pose a security threat.
Intelligence agencies: Nah, we good.
Trump: Pelosi's travel plans to egypt should be cancelled due to the shutdown.

As in, how do you get owned this badly this easily? The shutdown gives democrats nearly limitless tools to attack and hurt trump politically and pelosi and her people are literally this incapable of using it. Clinton gave us trump in 2016 and Pelosi might as well gives us trump in 2020... Ok, to be fair trump's 2020 depends on who they chose to run as a candidate for that election and odds are pelosi herself doing so much damage so as to have that huge an impact is unlikely but still... It's unbelievable how incompetent she is at this.

okay i did laugh at the letter

I feel like he does raise a point, if those secret service folks that would be there on secretary for that trip, then it probably isnt appropriate to go since their going to be unpaid for the entire duration. I hope they get spending cards for expenditures during such trips or else, this seems like something that would drain the workers bank accounts.

-

In any event, I cant imagine those fed employees would really vote for trump in 2020, or even any of the democrats in office, this just leaves a sour note for Both Sides.

 

[kkck]

okay i did laugh at the letter

I feel like he does raise a point, if those secret service folks that would be there on secretary for that trip, then it probably isnt appropriate to go since their going to be unpaid for the entire duration. I hope they get spending cards for expenditures during such trips or else, this seems like something that would drain the workers bank accounts.

-

In any event, I cant imagine those fed employees would really vote for trump in 2020, or even any of the democrats in office, this just leaves a sour note for Both Sides.

I have no idea of whether whoever is in charge of her security is affected in such a way by the shutdown. Pelosi would have to be even worst than I suggested if that is the case considering it would also be something trump can take away "due to budget concerns" as well.

I am not sure if either party has much to lose with federal workers. 2020 is still reasonably far away. The shutdown would have to last many months for it to have that big an impact on 2020. And which side loses or wins here depends on where public opinion stands. Right now its against trump but in a hypothetical shutdown that long anything could happen... Though I do think it is unlikely that public opinion would be favorable towards trump in such a scenario.

 

[SharkBait]

Though I do think it is unlikely that public opinion would be favorable towards trump in such a scenario.

the democrats just dont seem to be utilizing these easy opportunities to generate popular opinion, I guess AOC is getting some folks, but democrats are unable to unite under a single idea and purpose to defeat trump and the usual washington insiders.

 

[Franckie]

Except the part where funding bills have passed in the House with Republican support and McConnell doesn't do anything with them because he wants Trump's approval. I guess ole Mitchy boy only considers the Legislative and Executive as coequal branches of the government when he's in opposition of the President. That's convenient.

The problem with compromise is Trump views compromise as him getting everything he wants, and not conceding on anything he doesn't.

The problem isn't Trump per se, but the right-wing propaganda machine that runs the Republican Party nowadays. Trump does whatever Fox News tells him. And Fox News thrives on conflict and faux outrage.