American Politics

[kkck]

It seems like the public is more decisively turning on Trump now. Pelosi lost the troll fight but she is at least going to win the war. Apparently. Not sure of how much exactly trump cares about the public turning on him though. Then again, he might think its all fake news and the public is actually overwhelmingly with him in the wall fight. Anyways, I think the big player here is actually Macconnell. It all depends on whether he stops backing trump. Which I think is plausible but would perhaps require even more public pressure...

 

[xi0]

It seems like the public is more decisively turning on Trump now. Pelosi lost the troll fight but she is at least going to win the war. Apparently. Not sure of how much exactly trump cares about the public turning on him though. Then again, he might think its all fake news and the public is actually overwhelmingly with him in the wall fight. Anyways, I think the big player here is actually Schumer. It all depends on whether he stops backing trump. Which I think is plausible but would perhaps require even more public pressure...

How exactly is Chuck Schumer backing Trump?

 

[kkck]

How exactly is Chuck Schumer backing Trump?

Ah, sorry, meant mcconnell. Corrected that in my post.

 

[SharkBait]

Democrats need to compromise and accept the wall. With many federal works not going into debt, politicians suggesting folks take out loans while feeling proud for working for the republic, and many of the workers now going hungry or facing medical issues, it is clear that change is needed.

Worst we're already facing huge issues with day to day life affecting the majority of the public. What system will have infrastructure issues next?

 

[Pat]

Democrats need to compromise and accept the wall. With many federal works not going into debt, politicians suggesting folks take out loans while feeling proud for working for the republic, and many of the workers now going hungry or facing medical issues, it is clear that change is needed.

Worst we're already facing huge issues with day to day life affecting the majority of the public. What system will have infrastructure issues next?

Out of curiosity, why do you think Democrats need to compromise? Because they're the sensible party and Republicans are a hopeless bunch of goofs who don't care about the workers they currently direct and are responsible for? Do we, well, American people, want to set a precedent that any president can do whatever he/she wants by holding the government hostage? According to many polls, most of the American people are against the wall and the president's approval ratings are dropping, aren't Republicans supposed to take that into account, if they really believe in democracy that is?

As far as I can see, the problem isn't just with Trump but also his party backing him up in his relentless quest. They can override the presidential veto with two thirds majority in both houses. The budget proposal from Democrats got more votes in the senate than that of Republicans even though the latter party has the majority, I guess even his own party has started to realize Trump's digging a hole for himself. He apparently now considers the possibility of declaring national emergency to get his budget for the wall, a budget spared for real emergencies, it's sad to see that he stops at nothing to do as he wishes. There's no compromise with such a man I suppose other than always submitting to his demands which, I think, is hard to swallow.

 

[SharkBait]

Out of curiosity, why do you think Democrats need to compromise? Because they're the sensible party and Republicans are a hopeless bunch of goofs who don't care about the workers they currently direct and are responsible for? Do we, well, American people, want to set a precedent that any president can do whatever he/she wants by holding the government hostage? According to many polls, most of the American people are against the wall and the president's approval ratings are dropping, aren't Republicans supposed to take that into account, if they really believe in democracy that is?

As far as I can see, the problem isn't just with Trump but also his party backing him up in his relentless quest. They can override the presidential veto with two thirds majority in both houses. The budget proposal from Democrats got more votes in the senate than that of Republicans even though the latter party has the majority, I guess even his own party has started to realize Trump's digging a hole for himself. He apparently now considers the possibility of declaring national emergency to get his budget for the wall, a budget spared for real emergencies, it's sad to see that he stops at nothing to do as he wishes. There's no compromise with such a man I suppose other than always submitting to his demands which, I think, is hard to swallow.

The president can easily have his way, i was sure he has the right to do things in the interests of National Security. He's provided more evidence that there is a national emergency of both security and human health at the border than silent democrats whove not really provided convincing evidence that the issue isnt as he says.

Regardless he seems less likely to cave than democrats do. I really dont see what they gain by holding out.

Im pretty meh about it, I mean I dont really understand why people want totally open borders with unrestricted unregulated entry. People without any form of identification out there just seems strange, like you'd have no name to associate with a neighbor, or even, god forbdi you get into some type of accident or health issue with them, you'd have no name to associate with them or anyway to hold them accountable.

 

[kkck]

Come on, the national security threat trump talked about is obviously made up. Immigration from the border is at an all time low after over a decade of decreasing immigration rates.

I do agree that democrats are more likely to cave than trump is though. In spite of the fact that caving would be a political disaster for them and by any measure have literally every motivation to not budge a millimeter...

And literally no one wants "totally open borders". No reasonable person has ever made such a point. That's a trump talking point and a flat out lie. The argument against the wall is that it is wasteful and fails to actually address real issues at the border. Heck, the only issues at the border that may even be considered a crisis in that regard are caused by trump and his policies and certainly won't be solved by a wall...

 

[xi0]

Out of curiosity, why do you think Democrats need to compromise? Because they're the sensible party and Republicans are a hopeless bunch of goofs who don't care about the workers they currently direct and are responsible for? Do we, well, American people, want to set a precedent that any president can do whatever he/she wants by holding the government hostage? According to many polls, most of the American people are against the wall and the president's approval ratings are dropping, aren't Republicans supposed to take that into account, if they really believe in democracy that is?

As far as I can see, the problem isn't just with Trump but also his party backing him up in his relentless quest. They can override the presidential veto with two thirds majority in both houses. The budget proposal from Democrats got more votes in the senate than that of Republicans even though the latter party has the majority, I guess even his own party has started to realize Trump's digging a hole for himself. He apparently now considers the possibility of declaring national emergency to get his budget for the wall, a budget spared for real emergencies, it's sad to see that he stops at nothing to do as he wishes. There's no compromise with such a man I suppose other than always submitting to his demands which, I think, is hard to swallow.

Republicans en masse would never vote to overrule his veto, let alone pass anything without his support. Doing so would essentially doom his presidency and his chances in 2020, and it would seem most Republicans would still want this filth in office instead of another Democrat. And it doesn't even matter that anyone elected would be more Centrist and probably more conventional than Trump.

Im pretty meh about it, I mean I dont really understand why people want totally open borders with unrestricted unregulated entry. People without any form of identification out there just seems strange, like you'd have no name to associate with a neighbor, or even, god forbdi you get into some type of accident or health issue with them, you'd have no name to associate with them or anyway to hold them accountable.

There is no open border... There are millions of dollars worth of physical barriers, border agents, etc. Democrats aren't even against providing even more money for border security, they're against whatever Trump's concept of a wall is. It's ill-conceived, pointless, and would serve to do nothing than give Trump a political victory. Which I wouldn't even care about if it was seen as a benefit by most, but that might not even be true among Republicans.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 25, 2019 ---

@SharkBait I'm curious if you think it's perfectly fine for Trump to seize land from American Citizens in order to build his wall? Democrats should just compromise, I guess?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 25, 2019 ---

Interesting exchange from the Senate yesterday

 

[kkck]

And apparently trump caved... for now at least. My quick read suggests government funding until February 15.. I am not sure if the threat to build the wall via national emergency has any merit though, I am unfamiliar with the politics around such a thing. If it doesn't odds are there will be another shutdown soon enough. It's not like trump can afford to not get the wall done...

If trump caved odds are pressure from within his party must have reached critical mass. Popular opinion turning on trump was probably a factor but odds are that quite not as much. Fake polls after all.... Add to that, trump is a fairly vindictive person... I curious as to how he will retaliate against democrats for this humiliation.

 

[SharkBait]

Terrible news, Im glad I didnt vote for Trump. How he can just give up one of his tenants just continues to show that politicians will say whatever to get elected than forgo their own convictions and ideas. He was supposed to be a Washington outsider, not a career politician.

 

[M3J]

Come on, the national security threat trump talked about is obviously made up. Immigration from the border is at an all time low after over a decade of decreasing immigration rates.

Thanks to Obama deporting immigrants.

But we all know Trump's talking bullshit. The actual security threats come from mainly white guys, given how many of them committed mass shootings. Yet you won't see the right talk about that all because their voters are racists, they rally behind people of color being the enemies/problems. You know how it is, the right blame immigrants for stealing jobs, for increased crime rates, for violence in general, and whatnot.

Terrible news, Im glad I didnt vote for Trump. How he can just give up one of his tenants just continues to show that politicians will say whatever to get elected than forgo their own convictions and ideas. He was supposed to be a Washington outsider, not a career politician.

Um, what in the blue hell ever made you think he was going to be a Washington outsider or anything but another lying scum? Like literally, he's been lying all throughout the election, and you still somehow thought he'd be an outsider?

Jeez

 

[xi0]

Things are said in campaigns to win elections. Hell, things change between Primary and General even. But not being able to deliver on campaign promises reached an epic level with Trump, because the guy doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't listen to any of his advisers. He views his Presidency as serving his own interests instead of America's. You see this with his refusal to ever say anything remotely negative about Putin and Russia, and big shocker, he had plans to build Trump Tower in Moscow and lied about it as well. Of course the old adage goes that no President leaves office poor, but cmon.

 

[M3J]

Even with all his failures, I can still see Trump having a pretty good chance of winning the next election for two reasons:
Calling everything negative about him fake news despite proof
Blaming everyone but himself, mainly Hillary and Democrats

His supporters are brainwashed enough that they'd believe anything he says, and enough people hate or are disenfranchised with the Democrats that they'd either vote for Trump or not vote at all. I really really hope the Dems don't take it easy or think they might have this in the bag just because he failed to deliver on some of his promises.

 

[Pat]

Republicans en masse would never vote to overrule his veto, let alone pass anything without his support. Doing so would essentially doom his presidency and his chances in 2020, and it would seem most Republicans would still want this filth in office instead of another Democrat. And it doesn't even matter that anyone elected would be more Centrist and probably more conventional than Trump.

I guess they threatened to do exactly that which was why Trump caved. They can't nominate someone else in 2020? How does the system in the US work?

Terrible news, Im glad I didnt vote for Trump.

Isn't it good news in the sense that federal workers finally got their wages? Surely the functioning of the government is more important than Trump's political career I guess.

 

[xi0]

I guess they threatened to do exactly that which was why Trump caved. They can't nominate someone else in 2020? How does the system in the US work?

They can challenge him in the Primary, but that would sow so much division within the party that there's very little chance if a challenger beat him in the Primary that he'd win in the General election against a Democrat. Unless it was the second coming of Eisenhower or something lol.

Isn't it good news in the sense that federal workers finally got their wages? Surely the functioning of the government is more important than Trump's political career I guess.

No you don't understand, the only way it would be good news to Sharkbait is if the Democrats caved.

 

[kkck]

I dislike the way trump's caving is being presented as. Surely trump did cave but I'd argue there is almost certainly going to be another shutdown come february. And given the way this is being covered trump will be specially motivated to lock himself in a closet while covering his ears and screaming "NANANANANNA" until he gets his wall.

 

[M3J]

I guess they threatened to do exactly that which was why Trump caved. They can't nominate someone else in 2020? How does the system in the US work?



Isn't it good news in the sense that federal workers finally got their wages? Surely the functioning of the government is more important than Trump's political career I guess.

They can, but I think Gary thinks another Republican candidate wouldn't have a chance if he beat Trumpet during the primaries. Personally, I would disagree, especially if the candidate either vows to continue most of Trump's work or just blames Democrats for everything and use the right's hatred of anything not right-wing to get support. I mean, this is the same party that supported Kavanaugh and Moore, both men accused of sexual assault, one by kissing a minor, and a lot of them justified it with "anything that pisses off liberals must be good, and let's make them even madder!" It's how I know republicans don't have our best interest, at all.

Sharkbait is a republican, he doesn't care about federal workers getting their wages or Americans doing better, he just cares about big businesses and the wealthy benefiting even at the expense of people.

 

[xi0]

They can, but I think Gary thinks another Republican candidate wouldn't have a chance if he beat Trumpet during the primaries. Personally, I would disagree, especially if the candidate either vows to continue most of Trump's work or just blames Democrats for everything and use the right's hatred of anything not right-wing to get support.

If any Republican primary candidate would have more support than Trump, than who would it be? And who would be willing to challenge Trump and supporters he has in the RNC? Maybe Kasich? But would he have the support that Trump has? At best it would cut the party in half and Trump's supporters would be more likely to vote for an Independent/Dem than they would vote for anyone who challenged him. It would be a clusterfuck, and they'd have little chance against the Democratic nominee, unless it was something insane like Hillary again or Pelosi.

No Republican challenger would vow to continue Trump's work because the point of challenging him right now would be to prevent him from getting a second term.

 

[Pat]

No you don't understand, the only way it would be good news to Sharkbait is if the Democrats caved.

Oh, ok, judging by his posts, it sounded like he was genuinely concerned about the well-being of the federal workers.

 

[xi0]

Oh, ok, judging by his posts, it sounded like he was genuinely concerned about the well-being of the federal workers.

I think he is, the problem is I don't think he and other people view the Presidency for what it is, an equal branch of the government. Trump started this shutdown because he can, but him being President doesn't mean the opposition should just rollover in order to prevent it from happening.