American Politics

[xi0]

The whole point was to make a progressive coalition. I don't see why she wouldn't endorse him.

Well, the cynic would say that she abandoned that idea for some sort of personal gain. That's not what anyone wants to hear though.

 

[Ramen]

@hokageji

11) Susan Rice
10) Michelle Grisham
9) Stacey Abrams
8)Tammy Duckworth
7) Val Demmings
6) Catherine Masto
5) Tammy Baldwin
4) Warren
3)Gretchen Whitmer
2) Harris
1) Khlobuchar

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2020 ---

Well, the cynic would say that she abandoned that idea for some sort of personal gain. That's not what anyone wants to hear though.

....So frustrating

 

[xi0]

Bernie Sanders Drops Out of the 2020 Presidential Race. Health-Care Stocks Soar.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) suspended his campaign on Wednesday. The Vermont senator, once

www.barrons.com

Great news everyone!!! The system is working as intended!

 

[Ramen]

Bernie Sanders Drops Out of the 2020 Presidential Race. Health-Care Stocks Soar.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) suspended his campaign on Wednesday. The Vermont senator, once

www.barrons.com

Great news everyone!!! The system is working as intended!

I don't think anyone is surprised by this.

 

[M3J]

Wow, thank you so much for this endorsement after he dropped out... Remind me again why any progressive supports her still?

Because she has progressive agendas still and has come up with plans to take on coronavirus and the resulting issues. I do hope Biden picks her though, as shitty as this choice is.

I'm still pissed off with how BIden supporters ignored Biden being accused of sexual assault, and how Alyssa Milano went from "we must believe victims!" to "Me Too is weaponized against people we like!" Same ones who kept bringing up Bernie's article decades ago, and the same ones talking about how Trump is a rapist. Plus, Bernie is just a better choice in general

 

[hokageji]

1) Susan Rice
10) Michelle Grisham
9) Stacey Abrams
8)Tammy Duckworth
7) Val Demmings
6) Catherine Masto
5) Tammy Baldwin
4) Warren
3)Gretchen Whitmer
2) Harris
1) Khlobuchar

Thanks ....

I think only 4 - 1 seem like legitimate choices, but considering how nobody would've picked Tim Kaine as VP during 2016 elections, you never know.
Kloubuchar seems like she'll align the most with Biden's base on that list...

I'm still pissed off with how BIden supporters ignored Biden being accused of sexual assault, and how Alyssa Milano went from "we must believe victims!" to "Me Too is weaponized against people we like!" Same ones who kept bringing up Bernie's article decades ago, and the same ones talking about how Trump is a rapist. Plus, Bernie is just a better choice in general

Wait, wasn't Biden accused of inappropriate touching? Don't think we can put it in the same breath as sexual assault, and by that

THe problem with Bernie's run is that a significant portion of his supporters will not vote in the elections, and that's how Trump will win. If not for teh COVID-19 issue, nobody would stand a chance against Trump, not even Sanders. But now that there's a chance, they'll try to divide the vote base... which is what this is

 

[M3J]

inappropriate touching can be considered sexual assault, and he was accused by Tara Reade. Read it up, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to go into details here.

Bernie had a pretty decent chance of winning, more than Biden did. His supporters would have been motivated to vote to make sure he won, especially after what happened with Clinton. Now, many of them will vote for Trump if they vote at all, as they don't see a difference between Biden and Trump.

Trump is trying to divide the voter base. I think he's portraying Bernie as a victim of DNC establishment?

 

[kkck]

Dunno, to me biden's "accusations" of sexual assault seem way exaggerated. Making people uncomfortable is not sexual assault...

 

[hokageji]

inappropriate touching can be considered sexual assault, and he was accused by Tara Reade. Read it up, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to go into details here.

Bernie had a pretty decent chance of winning, more than Biden did. His supporters would have been motivated to vote to make sure he won, especially after what happened with Clinton. Now, many of them will vote for Trump if they vote at all, as they don't see a difference between Biden and Trump.

Trump is trying to divide the voter base. I think he's portraying Bernie as a victim of DNC establishment?

Dont think Tara Reade mentions the details but that's a topic for another day.
he problem is when people play the Jury, the sentence is often way more harsh than expected... and here the result will be Trump getting reelected. And going back to the root of this discussion, Alyssa Milano isn't a hypocrite if she see this differently.

Anyways, these things happen in politics....

Trump has suggested Bernie got cheated even during Hillary's time, which again is inaccurate. He needs to divide the base way more, because by election time, a depression is certain and unemployment will hit an all time high. Its always economy which makes the final decision in American politics and the only thing that can take down Trump... He'll need a lot more dirt on Biden, and i am sure we'll see some more in the coming days.

 

[xi0]

Now, many of them will vote for Trump if they vote at all, as they don't see a difference between Biden and Trump.

No they're not. This is some neolib horseshit that people keep spewing. Many might be more likely to vote third party or abstain, but acting like there's some large percentage of Sanders supporters willing to vote for Trump sounds like some DNC talking points memo.

 

[hokageji]

No they're not. This is some neolib horseshit that people keep spewing. Many might be more likely to vote third party or abstain, but acting like there's some large percentage of Sanders supporters willing to vote for Trump sounds like some DNC talking points memo.

Well, in effect, it is... 3rd party or absent vote is a vote that could've gone to a democratic candidate... This is a two party system so realistically, if you are not with one, you are with the other.

 

[kkck]

Some sanders vote did go to trump but it was nowhere near a majority of them... As far as the reporting I read it was about 10% at the most back in 2016. The core issue here remains democrat inability to grab support from who should be their bases and ultimately the fact that democrats think courting republicans isn't indefensibly moronic.

 

[xi0]

Well, in effect, it is... 3rd party or absent vote is a vote that could've gone to a democratic candidate... This is a two party system so realistically, if you are not with one, you are with the other.

This isn't about "in effect" though. My point is that if there are Sanders supporters refusing to vote for Biden, there isn't some large portion of them voting for Trump instead. Trying to marry "Bernie Bros" to Trump supporters is neolib bullshit put forth to de-legitimize the progressive movement and protect the status quo.

If the DNC wants people to vote for their candidate, they should nominate someone with a better record and MOST importantly, not someone in obvious cognitive decline.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2020 ---

Some sanders vote did go to trump but it was nowhere near a majority of them... As far as the reporting I read it was about 10% at the most back in 2016. The core issue here remains democrat inability to grab support from who should be their bases and ultimately the fact that democrats think courting republicans isn't indefensibly moronic.

Yeah and how many of those 10% were even registered Democrats? Most of the people doing something like that were likely Independents.

 

[M3J]

Dunno, to me biden's "accusations" of sexual assault seem way exaggerated. Making people uncomfortable is not sexual assault...

Not what I was talking about regarding Tara Reade

And that's debatable in any case. What Biden did is probably not sexual assault, but if he knew and still touched them, it could be considered that. I don't think those are accusations though, the girls didn't say anything about him touching them, have they?

Dont think Tara Reade mentions the details but that's a topic for another day.
he problem is when people play the Jury, the sentence is often way more harsh than expected... and here the result will be Trump getting reelected. And going back to the root of this discussion, Alyssa Milano isn't a hypocrite if she see this differently.

Anyways, these things happen in politics....

Trump has suggested Bernie got cheated even during Hillary's time, which again is inaccurate. He needs to divide the base way more, because by election time, a depression is certain and unemployment will hit an all time high. Its always economy which makes the final decision in American politics and the only thing that can take down Trump... He'll need a lot more dirt on Biden, and i am sure we'll see some more in the coming days.

She mentions how Biden penetrated her with his fingers. This was few weeks ago, the one you're probably thinking of was months ago. Alyssa is a hypocrite for doing an 180 when it comes to someone she supports, because if this was Bernie, she wouldn't even care about proof.

These things aren't supposed to happen in politics though.

WikiLeaks helped convince people when they leaked stuff that the DNC was working actively against Bernie to help Clinton get into office, and the media not covering Sanders as much as they did other candidates didn't help either. Trump has enough dirt on Biden without needing help, and that's the problem.

No they're not. This is some neolib horseshit that people keep spewing. Many might be more likely to vote third party or abstain, but acting like there's some large percentage of Sanders supporters willing to vote for Trump sounds like some DNC talking points memo.

I've seen some Sanders supporters actually say they'd vote for Trump or that they did during the previous election. Ten percent seems accurate, but it still makes no sense to me at all. This is based on what I've seen Sanders supporters say, not what DNC has said. Granted, I thought it was more than ten percent.

 

[kkck]

Not what I was talking about regarding Tara Reade

Haven't heard about her... But still, the inappropriate stuff we have heard about biden so far is mostly him kissing or hugging someone and making them uncomfortable. And that is a super low bar for something to be considered assault.

 

[hokageji]

This isn't about "in effect" though. My point is that if there are Sanders supporters refusing to vote for Biden, there isn't some large portion of them voting for Trump instead. Trying to marry "Bernie Bros" to Trump supporters is neolib bullshit put forth to de-legitimize the progressive movement and protect the status quo.

If the DNC wants people to vote for their candidate, they should nominate someone with a better record and MOST importantly, not someone in obvious cognitive decline

Agreed, Bernie Bros are likely to vote for 3rd party candidates, or not vote more than vote for Trump. But that can have an effect on purple / pink states.

Going by the 2016 elections, PA, MI, WI, NC, FL, AZ are some of the states Trump won marginally (;ess than 5% lead) and a total of about 100 delegates/seats...
On the other side or marginal wins, Clinton won only 30... So even if we assume 50% of the effect from last time, Trump will be in a lead...
Iif these undecided don't vote, or vote for 3rd party, then his numbers will look contestable. Like i said, if Bernie supporters dont back Biden, they will end up backing Trump.

Bernie Bros and the progressive movement will continue on, and the reform has started.... We have more progressives in the congress than ever before, and this slow progress will evenutally get stronger. But even if Sanders were elected now, he wouldn't be able to get support from the other side and get laws passed. But it has forced traditional democrats and moderates to talk about more progressive agendas. Biden has a better record of bipartisanship and thereby has a better chance getting things done.

WikiLeaks helped convince people when they leaked stuff that the DNC was working actively against Bernie to help Clinton get into office, and the media not covering Sanders as much as they did other candidates didn't help either. Trump has enough dirt on Biden without needing help, and that's the problem.

Russia is using Wikileaks to their advantage and its working. All that fiasco helped Trump at the end. Same thing with Biden, they'll find dirt on him to push some info that makes inappropriate convincingly sexual which will hurt the democrat base and help Trump at the end.

 

[M3J]

Haven't heard about her... But still, the inappropriate stuff we have heard about biden so far is mostly him kissing or hugging someone and making them uncomfortable. And that is a super low bar for something to be considered assault.

We have also heard about Tara Reade admitting she was sexually assaulted, but that's not getting as much attention as it should because of Biden's camp and for some reason, the media trying to ignore it.

 

[xi0]

Agreed, Bernie Bros are likely to vote for 3rd party candidates, or not vote more than vote for Trump. But that can have an effect on purple / pink states.

Going by the 2016 elections, PA, MI, WI, NC, FL, AZ are some of the states Trump won marginally (;ess than 5% lead) and a total of about 100 delegates/seats...
On the other side or marginal wins, Clinton won only 30... So even if we assume 50% of the effect from last time, Trump will be in a lead...
Iif these undecided don't vote, or vote for 3rd party, then his numbers will look contestable. Like i said, if Bernie supporters dont back Biden, they will end up backing Trump.

"Bernie Bros" aren't a thing though. That was my point in putting it in quotes. It's derisive slang weaponized against people who refused to support someone like Hillary Clinton and were labeled as being no different from the alt-right as a result.

Most Sanders Supporters are going to vote for Biden, that's just how the two party system works. Hillary Clinton didn't lose to Trump because Bernie voters refused to vote for her, she lost because she was a subpar candidate who couldn't contend with Trump's unconventional style. I think Biden would fare better under normal circumstances, but some days he even struggles to complete a sentence. The average voter isn't going to care about actual substance, they're going to see a frail, older man who is losing his marbles. The fact that the DNC are okay with that is akin to them festooning their own coffin, so being hostile towards those who know it's wrong and aren't afraid to say it is pretty hilarious.

Bernie Bros and the progressive movement will continue on, and the reform has started.... We have more progressives in the congress than ever before, and this slow progress will evenutally get stronger. But even if Sanders were elected now, he wouldn't be able to get support from the other side and get laws passed. But it has forced traditional democrats and moderates to talk about more progressive agendas. Biden has a better record of bipartisanship and thereby has a better chance getting things done.

Reform has started? It's not going to get stronger if policy is consistently blocked. Progressives have no backing within the existing power structure. They're expected to acquiesce to these skeletons who do nothing but mortgage the future of the younger generations just so they can keep getting elected. They'd be better off appealing to the actual left instead of moderates who consistently vote against their best interests all for the sake of "getting things done". And even Democrats with the best intentions are pushovers. There are certain things no American should have to ever compromise on, and they've been doing it for decades.

 

[Reebi]

"Bernie Bros" aren't a thing though. That was my point in putting it in quotes. It's derisive slang weaponized against people who refused to support someone like Hillary Clinton and were labeled as being no different from the alt-right as a result.

Most Sanders Supporters are going to vote for Biden, that's just how the two party system works. Hillary Clinton didn't lose to Trump because Bernie voters refused to vote for her, she lost because she was a subpar candidate who couldn't contend with Trump's unconventional style. I think Biden would fare better under normal circumstances, but some days he even struggles to complete a sentence. The average voter isn't going to care about actual substance, they're going to see a frail, older man who is losing his marbles. The fact that the DNC are okay with that is akin to them festooning their own coffin, so being hostile towards those who know it's wrong and aren't afraid to say it is pretty hilarious.



Reform has started? It's not going to get stronger if policy is consistently blocked. Progressives have no backing within the existing power structure. They're expected to acquiesce to these skeletons who do nothing but mortgage the future of the younger generations just so they can keep getting elected. They'd be better off appealing to the actual left instead of moderates who consistently vote against their best interests all for the sake of "getting things done". And even Democrats with the best intentions are pushovers. There are certain things no American should have to ever compromise on, and they've been doing it for decades.

Heck, anyone against Trump is better than Trump. I think Americans are starting to spit out the orange kool-aid. I don’t know why Americans thought Hilary was “subpar”. She had the most political experience and her policies weren’t radical making her a stable choice. From my understanding, they didn’t want another politician who was corrupt but Trump has proven to be the same. . I wonder how she would have handled the virus.

 

[xi0]

Heck, anyone against Trump is better than Trump. I think Americans are starting to spit out the orange kool-aid. I don’t know why Americans thought Hilary was “subpar”. She had the most political experience and her policies weren’t radical making her a stable choice. From my understanding, they didn’t want another politician who was corrupt but Trump has proven to be the same. . I wonder how she would have handled the virus.

How many times has this been said over the last 4 years? At this point I think it's obvious that the solution to Trump isn't "anyone is better than Trump". That is appealing to the lowest common denominator and not much else. It's lazy, severely lacking in aspiration, it just hasn't worked, and it's frankly not good enough. The DNC and Biden see Trump as a disruption to the status quo, while Sanders and anyone with any sense see Trump as a consequence of it. While this Biden situation isn't the exactly the same as the Clinton one, it's hard to see the result being much different. I wish I didn't feel that way, but I find it hard not to.