Human nature is good. Like, obviously it is. Are you saying the only thing keeping you from murdering, r*ping, and robbing people is the law? You'd do it absolutely 100% without those laws? Cause I can't name a single person I personally talk to who would.
Please provide any supporting evidence from the stuff you've studied. Especially if you would like to be regarded as an authority who has studied enough that he can "just see when people are wrong".
I never said I was an authority. I said what you're saying is blatantly wrong. In anarchy, it's basically an every man for himself environment. This isn't sufficient. There are those who depend on the protection of the police. It's basic theory.
What's stopping someone right now from shooting you? It's the punishment of prison and a possible death sentence.
Conjecture. I don't usually go out of my way to provide links and evidence and studies to look over with someone once they've set themselves up as "correct" and offer only "nuh uh" defenses for things that they say. But here, I'll give you an easy one that doesn't require a lot of intellectual labor on my part. If you can read this, look at the sources attached, reply to it and begin that intellectual discussion I'll reply in kind.
Then you can go back to and reply to the section where you said "I just know when people are wrong" with a reply that doesn't rely on you refuting the point based on you being an authority.
I said what you're saying is blatantly wrong. In anarchy, it's basically an every man for himself environment. This isn't sufficient. There are those who depend on the protection of the police. It's basic theory.
What's stopping someone right now from shooting you? It's the punishment of prison and a possible death sentence.
The only thing stopping someone from shooting me is the fact that nobody wants to. Unless you're saying that you would absolutely 100% shoot me if there wasn't a law against it? Please tell me what other crimes you would commit if there weren't laws stopping you.
"Crime being high" is not "most people commit crimes". In fact, there have been plenty of studies that refute the heck out of that idea. My statement was that most people don't commit crimes because crimes are bad. Your retort was "that's not true because crimes are high." If you can't see how that doesn't address what I said, unless you were replying to the word 'crime' itself, then that's fine. Because the evidence actually shows that a very small number of people commit crimes regardless of how many crimes occur.
Conjecture. I don't usually go out of my way to provide links and evidence and studies to look over with someone once they've set themselves up as "correct" and offer only "nuh uh" defenses for things that they say. But here, I'll give you an easy one that doesn't require a lot of intellectual labor on my part. If you can read this, look at the sources attached, reply to it and begin that intellectual discussion I'll reply in kind.
Then you can go back to and reply to the section where you said "I just know when people are wrong" with a reply that doesn't rely on you refuting the point based on you being an authority.
The only thing stopping someone from shooting me is the fact that nobody wants to. Unless you're saying that you would absolutely 100% shoot me if there wasn't a law against it? Please tell me what other crimes you would commit if there weren't laws stopping you.
"Crime being high" is not "most people commit crimes". In fact, there have been plenty of studies that refute the heck out of that idea. My statement was that most people don't commit crimes because crimes are bad. Your retort was "that's not true because crimes are high." If you can't see how that doesn't address what I said, unless you were replying to the word 'crime' itself, then that's fine. Because the evidence actually shows that a very small number of people commit crimes regardless of how many crimes occur.
Then you can go back to and reply to the section where you said "I just know when people are wrong" with a reply that doesn't rely on you refuting the point based on you being an authority.
I didn't provide it as evidence, I provided it as education so that you could look over existing data, cited studies, and reply with an informed opinion and not one that is "I'm right because I'm smart". But if you don't want to have that discussion we won't.
I didn't provide it as evidence, I provided it as education so that you could look over existing data, cited studies, and reply with an informed opinion and not one that is "I'm right because I'm smart". But if you don't want to have that discussion we won't.
You didn't, but now that you've provided an actual source let's look at it. Anarchists believe that anarchy is a good thing, and that ruling classes and such like the police aren't necessary to society. Unless you're citing a different anarchy that doesn't support everything I've said?
You didn't, but now that you've provided an actual source let's look at it. Anarchists believe that anarchy is a good thing, and that ruling classes and such like the police aren't necessary to society. Unless you're citing a different anarchy that doesn't support everything I've said?
Anarchists want to abolish all hierarchies because they believe it is unjust which includes the police. Millions of people depend on the police since the majority actually do their job. A "every person for themselves system" cannot suffice.
It's a joke, cause I said "what other crimes (besides shooting me in the face) do you want to commit" and you casually answered with other crimes. The logical punchline is to pack it all together.
Anarchists want to abolish all hierarchies because they believe it is unjust which includes the police. Millions of people depend on the police since the majority actually do their job. A "every person for themselves cannot suffice.
It's a statement you made without any evidence. I quoted your post - a post containing zero evidence - you can read it again if you'd like. Your post, I mean.
It's a statement you made without any evidence. I quoted your post - a post containing zero evidence - you can read it again if you'd like. Your post, I mean.
I mean, sure, you don't have to cite every source. The difference is you haven't cited any source except yourself that time you referred to yourself as an authority who can just "see when people are wrong". I've cited plenty, and you've ignored all of it. So you clearly don't want to have this discussion,.
I mean, sure, you don't have to cite every source. The difference is you haven't cited any source except yourself that time you referred to yourself as an authority who can just "see when people are wrong". I've cited plenty, and you've ignored all of it. So you clearly don't want to have this discussion,.
Provide any evidence. Go on. I could even do this one for you (it took fourteen seconds), so I'll leave it in your hands.
The difference is you haven't cited any source except yourself that time you referred to yourself as an authority who can just "see when people are wrong"
The first official deployment of tear gas was during the First World War, though it quickly became a popular tool for police to quell post-war social unrest
And how do you propose to fix that if the government refuses to hold them accountable? That's why police forces will eventually start acting above the law, because there's no accountability.
Let's continue your thought. No police. Who makes sure that people follow the laws that are made to ensure peace between people. Rights to property and Personal safety?
Neighborhood watches? Private Militias? Families? Do you honestly believe they will follow any kind of compassionate code of conduct? That's like burning your Tesla because of a motor malfunction and going back to carriages because all automobiles have motors and can therefore be broken.
Here's how you can create community safety without police
blavity.com
The history of police is rooted in racism, created only to keep the slaves in place and capture runaway slaves. My issue with cops is the violence they show and rather than saying "Black lives do matter!," they get mad and turn violent even on protesters. I don't know how true it is as it may be biased, but the cops few towns away from where I live managed to reduce crime by walking more often and talking with citizens, rather than being violent (I could be remembering wrong though). I'd rather see stuff like that, where cops will get along with citizens and be proactive, but is that evne possible?
Yes, you definitely need the police... And sure, the police show up after facts but... how the hell can that possibly be any different? The main issue here is that in the vast majority of situations its not actually the police's job to "fight" crime. That's just confusing the police with batman... Even if you think the police is supposed to do that, for that to happen you need either the extraordinary coincidence of the police showing up as crime happens or that it lasts long enough for the police to arrive while it is still happening. There is also the issue that there is no reasonable alternative to the police. And in context, the issue with the police in the US is not that they exist... Reading online about police response to protests and protesters its fairly clear that the police believe that they are doing the right thing in all these cases. That's why (kinda in a mobster like fashion) they don't testify against each other and almost invariably got each other's back. The core issue remains that the police are doing exactly what they are trained for. Minorities in the US get the brunt of it but the fact is that it can happen to anyone. The entire police force needs to be demilitarized and retrained into not thinking they are batman. Otherwise you will simply continue to have police that is doing exactly what it was trained to do.
Five to ten minutes after the fact, understandable. An hour or two after, just because they don't care that much, not acceptable. The cops are supposed to do something about crime though, but often they go after Black people and usually for mild to no reasons.
Pretty sure they don't think they're doing the right thing, but that they just don't care and love to flaunt power and hurt others. They're not doing what they're trained for when they don't really care much to prevent crime or hold people accountable unless they're Black or people of color.
Solution sucks. Most don't care about being heroes, otherwise they'd do more to help victims of abuse and rape victims, and they'd do more to help victims of crime regardless of color, and they wouldn't attack or kill Black people. The main issue with police is that they're almost never held accountable. Hell, there are 35 states that allow cops to rape prisoners and get away with it by claiming consent. No. Accountability.
How else do you think we should deal with drug dealers, murderers and things of that nature. The idea of police isn't a bad one. It's the USA that all these events are taking place. Other countries have their faults but it's a very small minority.
Decriminalize all drug use, for starters. If someone isn't hurting anyone but themselves their actions aren't inherently evil. If that man isn't robbing a store to get money for meth, but just buying meth and doing it? Let him do meth.
I agree with decriminalizing drug use. Not only does it take power away from cartels and gangs, but it also provides a safer way to do drugs and more resources for addicts if they want to beat the addiction.
Human nature is good. Like, obviously it is. Are you saying the only thing keeping you from murdering, r*ping, and robbing people is the law? You'd do it absolutely 100% without those laws? Cause I can't name a single person I personally talk to who would.
It's not good. A lot of people from what I've seen have admitted that the idea of Hell is what makes them behave well enough, or that going to church justifies their bad behavior. Laws and religions keep many people I've observed in line, if at all.
It's not good. A lot of people from what I've seen have admitted that the idea of Hell is what makes them behave well enough, or that going to church justifies their bad behavior. Laws and religions keep many people I've observed in line, if at all.
That's anecdotal, and also a bit silly. Pretty much any 'stranded together' stories from real life show that humans work together in a crisis. All these 'humans are like lord of the flies' or 'people suffer the bystander effect' are usually either A. a needlessly cynical look on life and B. only take data from rich/upperclass white subjects/areas. Most poor or poverty stricken communities, and most places in the world in fact, don't have issues with the bystander effect. It's typically only places where human compassion is limited, because it is not taught. Which is common in, not human nature, but upperclass society where we are all taught "those people are better than/worth more than us." It's one of the great flaws of capitalism, to teach that productivity and income are reflective of human worth and not just being alive.
You can look online, or out at the crowds of protesters for example. They're not all black. You have so many people from so many backgrounds coming together to protest police brutality. Even while undercover cops attempt to incite riots(and are likely responsible for 100% of the riots, and at least half the burnings), people call them violent, and our government tries to get approval to use live rounds to kill them all.
You can look at all the human kindness and compassion from the non-conspiracy theorists of the world as we largely helped each other out during the corona virus pandemic. You can look at all the donations going out to help people in need. You can look at so very many things, and so many experiments, and so much volunteer work to see that this cynical idea is wrong. You can look at every study that uses a credible method for collecting and collating data. The consensus is, at the end of the day, that science supports that human nature is good.
The problem is that cynical people look at the rich and the upper class and decide that those are the baseline standard for humanity.
But if you really really wanna get down to it? Ask people what they would do if there was no laws to stop them. People can say "oh, religion makes me a good person" or whatever, but ask them specifically what they would do. What crimes, what moral codes, they would break? Chances are the most common thing you'll see is theft for survival, or murder of the rich for revolution. None of it from common will be "I'll kill/r*pe/steal just because I can."
And if you really find that all of your friends would do some horrible and atrocious things if laws weren't there to stop them? You should rethink 100% of your friends, cause nobody I personally associate with is like that.
And how do you propose to fix that if the government refuses to hold them accountable? That's why police forces will eventually start acting above the law, because there's no accountability.
And how do you propose to fix that if the government refuses to hold them accountable? That's why police forces will eventually start acting above the law, because there's no accountability.
Raid and take away all police armaments, all guns, all military equipment, all protective armor. Burn precincts and free all prisoners. Completely disarm and depower the police force. And then tell the government to fix it or they get nothing back. If the cheetoh wants to call in the national guard they got an armory too. Very raidable. Highly recommend. If the government refuses to fix the problem, we'll fix it ourselves.
Change has always been taken with blood. There has not been one single instance where the US government has said "they've asked/peacefully protested enough let's give them their rights", each and every single one of those were taken. By the hands of the people. Lifted up by the corpses of our fallen. This is no different, the police can fall in line or cease to exist.
I disagree, as the victim or attempted victim of each of these crimes in the past. I wish rehabilitation on all of them.
That's anecdotal, and also a bit silly. Pretty much any 'stranded together' stories from real life show that humans work together in a crisis. All these 'humans are like lord of the flies' or 'people suffer the bystander effect' are usually either A. a needlessly cynical look on life and B. only take data from rich/upperclass white subjects/areas. Most poor or poverty stricken communities, and most places in the world in fact, don't have issues with the bystander effect. It's typically only places where human compassion is limited, because it is not taught. Which is common in, not human nature, but upperclass society where we are all taught "those people are better than/worth more than us." It's one of the great flaws of capitalism, to teach that productivity and income are reflective of human worth and not just being alive.
They just don't deserve rehabitiliation if they don't want to change for the better.
I did make it obvious that I'm going by with what I've seen and heard. While we may be more conditioned now to not be evil, I still see religious beliefs and laws keeping people from doing bad things (to a degree).
Alternatively, you can also argue that in regards to laws, they're not necessarily good, like aiding Jewish people in Germany. Breaking the law saved countless of lives. With religion though, I have no idea.
That's mostly true, but what if these people are pitted against each other? We've had ordinary citizens fight each other because of different beliefs and ideas, especially on religion.
You can look online, or out at the crowds of protesters for example. They're not all black. You have so many people from so many backgrounds coming together to protest police brutality. Even while undercover cops attempt to incite riots(and are likely responsible for 100% of the riots, and at least half the burnings), people call them violent, and our government tries to get approval to use live rounds to kill them all.
You can look at all the human kindness and compassion from the non-conspiracy theorists of the world as we largely helped each other out during the corona virus pandemic. You can look at all the donations going out to help people in need. You can look at so very many things, and so many experiments, and so much volunteer work to see that this cynical idea is wrong. You can look at every study that uses a credible method for collecting and collating data. The consensus is, at the end of the day, that science supports that human nature is good.
The problem is that cynical people look at the rich and the upper class and decide that those are the baseline standard for humanity.
But if you really really wanna get down to it? Ask people what they would do if there was no laws to stop them. People can say "oh, religion makes me a good person" or whatever, but ask them specifically what they would do. What crimes, what moral codes, they would break? Chances are the most common thing you'll see is theft for survival, or murder of the rich for revolution. None of it from common will be "I'll kill/r*pe/steal just because I can."
And if you really find that all of your friends would do some horrible and atrocious things if laws weren't there to stop them? You should rethink 100% of your friends, cause nobody I personally associate with is like that.
Yes, but this isn't an "every man/woman or group for themselves" sort of thing, it's a group vs. group sort of thing. And cops are doing horrible things, even flaunting laws because they know they can get away with it. They're proving human nature isn't necessarily good, and so are the people who are against the protests or the racists threatening violence against protesters.
So why not get rid of the police force until someone really figures it out, apart from accountability. Many victims have said cops didn't help or made things worse, especially for women and people with mental illness. If someone's having mental health problems, having the cops there just makes it more likely that the person will get shot. If a victim of rape speaks up, the cops are more likely to laugh at her and blame her. How do you deal with stuff like that?
Raid and take away all police armaments, all guns, all military equipment, all protective armor. Burn precincts and free all prisoners. Completely disarm and depower the police force. And then tell the government to fix it or they get nothing back. If the cheetoh wants to call in the national guard they got an armory too. Very raidable. Highly recommend. If the government refuses to fix the problem, we'll fix it ourselves.
Change has always been taken with blood. There has not been one single instance where the US government has said "they've asked/peacefully protested enough let's give them their rights", each and every single one of those were taken. By the hands of the people. Lifted up by the corpses of our fallen. This is no different, the police can fall in line or cease to exist.
Fix it yourself how? As long as there are guards and the likes to oppose us, especially with weapons, and not be held accountable or fear the consequences, we'll always be stuck in a pickle.
