American Politics

[Kato756]

English's not my first language so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know " I am willingly to" and "I do" are two very different things.

And why ask "which group", does that make a difference against White Supremacism?

Then I ask of you, why did he use that exact language? Why not EASILY commit to something as easy as being against (almost) the same ideology your great/grandparents fought against?

And talking about context and convinience, the text you posted does not mention he said "stand down AND stand by".

Which coupled with how hes questioning the election and how he asked his suporters to act as watchers over the voting places...

Can you please, by the love of a bald eagle, why did he say things that way, when the alternative was so easy? And why do you think your link literally cut out a very important part of the pharse that changes its context?

He did denounce white supremacy. Leftist are just salty that he turned the denouncement in to a even greater denouncement of Antifa. This is actually a common piece of fake news that both Biden and the main stream media is spreading. That Trump would refuse to denounce racists. Its not true. Here you go.

Especially Biden have repeated the "Very fine people" hoax that came from a doctored video where someone clipped together several parts of one of Trumps speeches to make it seem like he was defending the white supremacists in Charlottesville. He even repeated that lie during the debate though whether he knew it was a lie or just bought the propaganda I have no idea. But Biden lied a lot during the debate.


Wait? Why is no one on the left talking more about Bidens son? A new report was just release by the Senate. Among other things it reveals that Hunter Biden, Joe's son received 3.5 million dollars while Joe was the vice president from the wife of the mayor of Moscow. A close ally of Vladimir Putin. (Also about a million each to Bidens brother and sister.) Not to mention the great amount of money he got from Ukraine and China at the same time for doing the job if being Joe Bidens son.

I remember the left going ape shit about the possibility of Trump being compromised by Russia and that he should be deposed because he was a puppet or whatnot. They even had a huge investigation that costed 30 million dollars and found pretty much nothing. But now that there is clear evidence of Joe Bidens family taking bribes from Russia all you hear are crickets. No one wants to mention it with even a word!

Here is a video that summarize it:


The thing is, this election is not strictly between the left and the right. Trump is a pretty moderate Republican. He was a registered democrat until 2009 after all. Instead I see this election as between the establishment and the populists. And FOX is firmly controlled by the establishment. With the notable exceptions of Tucker Carlson and maybe a few other big names to a lesser extent. But Tucker is the most popular news show in the country. The bosses cant touch him as long as he is popular without shooting themselves in the foot.

Wallace on the other hand have always hated Trump and always supported the establishment. Which is why he was chosen as the moderator.

 

[Sanity Check]

Then I ask of you, why did he use that exact language? Why not EASILY commit to something as easy as being against (almost) the same ideology your great/grandparents fought against?

"Anti fascism" has been a communist motto since the 1930s.

You can see above the emblem that says "antifaschistische aktion" emblazoned on the side of communist KPD headquarters in berlin.

On the right is antifa of america's logo in 2017.

People aren't necessarily fighting against communism like their grandfathers did.

In some cases, people are supporting antifa, fighting to support the spread of global communism their ancestors died fighting.

 

[kkck]

My ancestors fought against the spread of global communism.

Today many are fighting to expand the spread of global communism(aka socialism).

People either oppose global communism or support global communism. "Fighting fascism" is one of the false arguments communists/socialists make to push their agenda.

And... when did your ancestors do that?

Only two sides? Must be nice to live in a simply world where fallacies aren't a thing.

 

[Sanity Check]

And... when did your ancestors do that?

Only two sides? Must be nice to live in a simply world where fallacies aren't a thing.

Would it be fair to say vietnam, korean and cold wars were waged against the spread of global communism?

What's wrong with two sides. I believe in 4 genders. Male. Female. Transexual. Hermaphrodite.

The left pushes an agenda where they claim there are 256+ genders to confuse people and dumb down society. But its not something all of us must adhere to.

 

[kkck]

Would it be fair to say vietnam, korean and cold wars were waged against the spread of global communism?

What's wrong with two sides. I believe in 4 genders. Male. Female. Transexual. Hermaphrodite.

The left pushes an agenda where they claim there are 256+ genders to confuse people and dumb down society. But its not something all of us must adhere to.

I am not too familiar with the korean war but the vietnam war was not even won by the US. And in spite of the US not even winning communism didn't spread. As for the cold war, it wasn't an actual war.

Because the world has more than two sides, more than two ideologies and even within bonafide communists you won't necessarily find they support china (since for some communists the fact that china has privately owned businesses means it's not really communist).

Genders have literally nothing to do with this.

 

[Sanity Check]

I am not too familiar with the korean war but the vietnam war was not even won by the US. And in spite of the US not even winning communism didn't spread. As for the cold war, it wasn't an actual war.

Because the world has more than two sides, more than two ideologies and even within bonafide communists you won't necessarily find they support china (since for some communists the fact that china has privately owned businesses means it's not really communist).

All of vietnam was won by communists IIRC. Wheras communists only managed to conquer north korea. The spread of communism was prevented from infecting south korea.

The idea of left vs right wing politics being a poor explanation for global events persists. I think its fair to say populism vs socialism is still the best explanation for virtually every conflict present in the modern world atm.

Communists never died or went away BTW. They simply adjusted their tactics, waited a few decades and tried again.

If Trump loses the election, you'll see the communists opposing him make a big push.

 

[Kato756]

"Anti fascism" has been a communist motto since the 1930s.

You can see above the emblem that says "antifaschistische aktion" emblazoned on the side of communist KPD headquarters in berlin.

On the right is antifa of america's logo in 2017.

People aren't necessarily fighting against communism like their grandfathers did.

In some cases, people are supporting antifa, fighting to support the spread of global communism their ancestors died fighting.

You do realize this does NOTHING to answer my question, right?

 

[hokageji]

@Sanity Check

Whats your point? Antifa as an idealogy is more anti-right, and anti capitalism.. so yea, they are socialist and support those idealogies... i dont get your point.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 1, 2020 ---

English's not my first language so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know " I am willingly to" and "I do" are two very different things.

And why ask "which group", does that make a difference against White Supremacism?

Then I ask of you, why did he use that exact language? Why not EASILY commit to something as easy as being against (almost) the same ideology your great/grandparents fought against?

And talking about context and convinience, the text you posted does not mention he said "stand down AND stand by".

Which coupled with how hes questioning the election and how he asked his suporters to act as watchers over the voting places...

Can you please, by the love of a bald eagle, why did he say things that way, when the alternative was so easy? And why do you think your link literally cut out a very important part of the pharse that changes its context?

I think Trump targeted the smallest white group possible, and said he condemns them. Proud boys says it rejects white supremacy, so in his mind he's answered the question. However, by saying they define "western values", showing up in Charlottesville etc. points to otherwise.

If they are indeed anti-racism, and not white supremacists, why the hell are they celebrating Trump asking them to step down and referring them as a white nationalist group?

 

[kkck]

I think Trump targeted the smallest white group possible, and said he condemns them. Proud boys says it rejects white supremacy, so in his mind he's answered the question. However, by saying they define "western values", showing up in Charlottesville etc. points to otherwise.

If they are indeed anti-racism, and not white supremacists, why the hell are they celebrating Trump asking them to step down and referring them as a white nationalist group?

Biden was the one who suggested the proud boys. And trump simply went with it and said the stand down and stand by bit. I don't think trump even knew who they were or anything about it, he just said whatever about whatever white nationalist group.

 

[Xeroxed]

As far as I can tell these are guys that show up at far right wing stuff with confederacy flags.... Add to that them showing up at BLM protests while heavily armed, which is just insane. But for arguments sake lets say these guys aren't actually white supremacists. What does it matter within the context of the interview? Trump didn't say "You know chris, these guys aren't actually white supremacists". What we saw is trump's actual response towards right wing militias and white supremacy.

While I agree that using confederate flags is a bit stupid. (I mean its a symbol of the democrat party from back in the day when the democrats tried to break states out of the union and was stopped by the republican Abraham Lincoln.) The movement itself staunchly opposes white supremacy. You could just ask any member and they would tell you that.

If you think their protests are harmful. Well, please show me a link with all the actual damage they have caused. Its not like they are actually rioting or hurting anyone. I mean other than Antifa. And then only if the Antifa shows up in their face and pick a fight with them.

They are extreme far right, neo facist organization which promotes political violence.. They just disguise their values as western instead of saying white but their actions have repeatedly been parallel to white supremacists and have voiced their support to white supremacists groups.

Also,

FBI now classifies far-right Proud Boys as 'extremist group', documents say

Group is now designated ‘with ties to white nationalism’ according to report produced by Washington law enforcement

www.theguardian.com

FBI classifies them as a white nationalist group, so....

Nope! They do not! They immediately retracted that and it was probably just the opinion of a single agent.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/20...-designate-proud-boys-as-extremist-group.html

And what is your source on that they would in anyway be white supremacists? Their leader is the guy in the picture on my previous post. Enrique Tarrio. He is definitely not white. I have actually been told since my previous post that he also have black ancestry and the members of the proud boys are from all kinds of races. Is this some black white supremacy?

English's not my first language so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know " I am willingly to" and "I do" are two very different things.

It was because of the question asked. When Chris Wallace asked the question he said "Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups "
and Trump answered: Sure, I’m willing to do that.

So Trump gave an answer in the same way he got the question. In this context " I am willingly to" and "I do"are pretty much the same things.

And why ask "which group", does that make a difference against White Supremacism?

Then I ask of you, why did he use that exact language? Why not EASILY commit to something as easy as being against (almost) the same ideology your great/grandparents fought against?

Because the far left have changed the definition of the word. In the old definition the word meant something like "a person who hates and attacks people of other races". The new definition that the left uses is "A white supremacist is anyone who opposes us or does not bow down to us." The logic behind this change is that society feels that it is morally right to attack WS because they attack others. So by calling everyone they dont like that, the left gives themselves justification to attack anyone they dont like.

In this context leftist are calling anyone who votes or support Trump a white supremacist. So what Wallace was actually asking was "will you please admit that you are a piece of shit and repent by attacking your supporters?" Which he of course refused to do.

And if you dont think this is likely here is a quote from M3J from earlier on this page:

Trump didn't disavow white supremacists. He's a racist, and he clearly knows he needs the votes of racists to have any chance, so he panders to them. You may not like these facts, but they are facts - Trump and his voter base are about white supremacy. If white supremacists were the ones burning down cities, neither you nor Trump would care.

Thank you M3J for being such a great example!

 

[kkck]

While I agree that using confederate flags is a bit stupid. (I mean its a symbol of the democrat party from back in the day when the democrats tried to break states out of the union and was stopped by the republican Abraham Lincoln.) The movement itself staunchly opposes white supremacy. You could just ask any member and they would tell you that.

If you think their protests are harmful. Well, please show me a link with all the actual damage they have caused. Its not like they are actually rioting or hurting anyone. I mean other than Antifa. And then only if the Antifa shows up in their face and pick a fight with them.

That's kinda shifting the discussion. The fact remains that trump's response was damn terrifying and he very much did not actually disavow white supremacy (and it makes sense white supremacists would feel emboldened by his words).

These are people showing up to other protests with guns with the specific intention to intimidate and exacerbate the situation. That's just not something a sane person does.

 

[hokageji]

Biden was the one who suggested the proud boys. And trump simply went with it and said the stand down and stand by bit. I don't think trump even knew who they were or anything about it, he just said whatever about whatever white nationalist group.

Ok, that's what adds up...

Nope! They do not! They immediately retracted that and it was probably just the opinion of a single agent.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/20...-designate-proud-boys-as-extremist-group.html

I stand corrected, alright, I take back that part of the statement...

And what is your source on that they would in anyway be white supremacists? Their leader is the guy in the picture on my previous post. Enrique Tarrio. He is definitely not white. I have actually been told since my previous post that he also have black ancestry and the members of the proud boys are from all kinds of races. Is this some black white supremacy?

honestly, I could care less about that label and more with the issues.. So why dont you answer me by explaining what is "western values".

If you don't wanna lavel them as white supremacists, fine. But their actions like:
anti BLM,
fact that their members and founders have a history of anti-sematic, neo-nazi backgrounds
one of its members played a part in Charlottesville...
Besides this, they do promote violence for a cause..
I think including a few members from all races, but claiming western values and idealogies similar to white nationalists makes them hypocritical...

 

[M3J]

In this context leftist are calling anyone who votes or support Trump a white supremacist. So what Wallace was actually asking was "will you please admit that you are a piece of shit and repent by attacking your supporters?" Which he of course refused to do.

And if you dont think this is likely here is a quote from M3J from earlier on this page:

Yes, and it's a fact. By no there's no reason to keep supporting Trump other than the fact that he's about white supremacy. Glad you at least admit that Trump's supporters are white supremacists/racists though. Thank you for quoting me as well, otherwise I'd have missed it as I usually skip yours and Sanity's posts as they're often substanceless.

No matter how you twist what Trump said or what Wallace was asking, you can't change the fact that Trump is pro-white supremacy and has consistently lied even during the debate. He has shown he's a very poor leader and an even worse person, especially with the way he went after Hunter.





Not surprised if this is true.

 

[xi0]

Wallace on the other hand have always hated Trump and always supported the establishment. Which is why he was chosen as the moderator.

"Establishment" is beginning to become a petty indistinct term these days. I think saying Fox News' most competent newsman and interviewer hates Trump is just another way to discount valid criticism people have of him.

Because the far left have changed the definition of the word. In the old definition the word meant something like "a person who hates and attacks people of other races".

No, that's not really what it is. White supremacy is a form of chauvinism, and the belief that whites are superior and should therefore be domineering towards other groups. You don't need to be violent or even be okay with violence to be a white supremacist. And even though I don't really consider myself far left, I can still see that there are laws and other structures in society that still enforce older ways of thinking at the expense of minorities. Refusing to acknowledge this or even treating the topic as a non-starter is what gets people called a white supremacist more often than not.

 

[M3J]

I forgot if I mentioned this, but did anyone see the right wing's reaction to Chrissy Teigen? Mark Dice especially was horrible, and it's like they don't understand anything.

 

[xi0]

 

[Newkerzy]

........

Shall we have a toast, then?

 

[xi0]

Maybe I'm too cynical, but part of me wonders if this was a stunt or something to wag the dog. The Melania tapes were pretty terrible.

 

[M3J]

........

Shall we have a toast, then?

Would love to, but like Gary I wouldn't be surprised if this was a hoax. Trump could also say he beat covid and that it wasn't hard, and probably hype up a drug or two. Trump is trash, but he's not an idiot.

Scary thing is, if Trump dies, then we'll get Pence, who may be worse.

 

[hokageji]

Dont think Trump will die, and dont think i would celebrate him getting infected either.. but thats me...

And its not a hoax... i wish he'd atleast take things seriously going forward.... but doubt we'd have another debate.