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Big tax hikes. :toc

Good thing or a bad thing?

Which direction is the wind blowing atm?
"Raising the corporate tax from 21 percent to 28 percent; increasing the income tax rate on people making more than $400,000; expanding the estate tax; paring back tax preferences on pass-through businesses such as limited-liability companies; and setting up a higher capital gains tax rate for individuals making at least $1 million."

-Corporate tax increase is still lower than what it was

"The United States imposes a tax on the profits of US resident corporations at a rate of 21 percent (reduced from 35 percent by the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act). The corporate income tax raised $230.2 billion in fiscal 2019, accounting for 6.6 percent of total federal revenue, down from 9 percent in 2017. "

The other stuff wouldn't affect most people.
 

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wouldn't affect most people.

Imagine an american with a net worth of $100 million who owns a business employing 20,000 people.

Moving to puerto rico to escape unfair tax hikes. They shut down their business in the USA and re-establish in another country with lower taxes.

20,000 americans lose their jobs.

Now imagine this on a larger scale where not a single millionaire, but many close down their business in the US and move abroad.

Will this really not have an effect?

:hurr
 

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Moving to puerto rico to escape unfair tax hikes. They shut down their business in the USA and re-establish in another country with lower taxes.
Companies still moved to other countries ever after the us corproate tax rate went from 35% to 21%, taxes isn't the only reason one would move their company (see higher minimum wage discussions or increased required health care coverage costs)
 

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Companies still moved to other countries ever after the us corproate tax rate went from 35% to 21%, taxes isn't the only reason one would move their company (see higher minimum wage discussions or increased required health care coverage costs)

If it is true that Trump achieved record job creation by cutting the corporate tax rate to invite wealthy investors into starting businesses and creating jobs in the country.

Then would not tax hikes carry an opposite effect?

The estate tax (so called death tax) is around 40%. If you're a celebrity with $20 million and you unfortunately die. The government collects 40% of your $20 million as a tax.


Note: record numbers of americans renouncing their citizenship (presumably leaving the country) after Biden became President.
 

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If it is true that Trump achieved record job creation by cutting the corporate tax rate to invite wealthy investors into starting businesses and creating jobs in the country.

Then would not tax hikes carry an opposite effect?
They didn't invest in the country, they bought back stocks (just like they did when they were giving bailouts during the great recession) and moved even more of their investments, jobs, and production out of the country. https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/article/21129139/did-the-tax-cuts-boost-us-manufacturing

Further, it also explains why "Keeping jobs in America" was part of both candidates slogan in 2020

Trump was always criticized for not doing what he promised for manufacturing, see ohio and also carrier, even when given money, the companies still shut down plants and moved jobs overseas

 

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Imagine an american with a net worth of $100 million who owns a business employing 20,000 people.

Moving to puerto rico to escape unfair tax hikes. They shut down their business in the USA and re-establish in another country with lower taxes.

20,000 americans lose their jobs.

Now imagine this on a larger scale where not a single millionaire, but many close down their business in the US and move abroad.

Will this really not have an effect?

:hurr
Puerto rico isn't another country though.
 

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Puerto rico isn't another country though.

Puerto rico AFAIK doesn't collect US federal or state taxes.

So yeh it is a different country, as far as tax hikes are concerned.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

They didn't invest in the country, they bought back stocks (just like they did when they were giving bailouts during the great recession) and moved even more of their investments, jobs, and production out of the country. https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/article/21129139/did-the-tax-cuts-boost-us-manufacturing

Further, it also explains why "Keeping jobs in America" was part of both candidates slogan in 2020

Trump was always criticized for not doing what he promised for manufacturing, see ohio and also carrier, even when given money, the companies still shut down plants and moved jobs overseas


Trump's economic stats would have been legendary. Had the unfortunate pandemic not been released by china. (amazing coincidence there)

I like Obama as a President. But have to admit his administration used tax dollars to fund american jobs being outsourced to china. Biden is doing the same.

Trump is the only US President is more than 20 years who hasn't followed that america last trend.

Those news stories you posted are misleading. Not giving Trump credit for economic success during his term. And blaming him for everything democrats were guilty of.
 

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Puerto rico AFAIK doesn't collect US federal or state taxes.
???

Contrary to common misconception, residents of Puerto Rico do pay federal income taxes. As with any state, however, those Puerto Rico residents who fall below the federal tax threshold (i.e., "the poor") do not pay federal income taxes at all. The U.S. federal taxes all residents must pay include US customs taxes,[1] federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, and Unemployment taxes).

 

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GM has been doing poorly in for decades now... Trump ultimately didn't manage to have an impact on whether companies left or stayed in the US. We saw at the start of Trump's presidency how he tried to negotiate with companies to stay in the US... And those companies ultimately took the money trump gave them and still left or moved productions as they pleased. Hence why Trump quietly stopped "negotiating" like this and never bragged about it again. Imagine how big a failure this was for trump to not find a way to brag about it.

The US has the following situation...

On one hand you have that people need healthcare, infraestructure, education and this shit costs money. And it is normally funded via taxpayer money.

On the other hand you have increasingly larger corporations who threaten to leave if their taxes are raised... And even if they aren't raised, they threaten to leave if they aren't lowered.

So... shit out of luck?
 

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Puerto rico AFAIK doesn't collect US federal or state taxes.

So yeh it is a different country, as far as tax hikes are concerned.
People in Puerto Rico do pay federal taxes, and while they aren't a state, they still pay commonwealth taxes to their government. The tax haven aspect comes from a flat 4% corporate tax rate and full exemption for dividends being taxed.
 

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Trump's economic stats would have been legendary. Had the unfortunate pandemic not been released by china. (amazing coincidence there)

I like Obama as a President. But have to admit his administration used tax dollars to fund american jobs being outsourced to china. Biden is doing the same.

Trump is the only US President is more than 20 years who hasn't followed that america last trend.

Those news stories you posted are misleading. Not giving Trump credit for economic success during his term. And blaming him for everything democrats were guilty of.
Trump's pre pandemic economy behaved pretty much the same as Obama's. Which wasn't great either. As in, both had lots of wall street gains but middle and lower income folk didn't exactly benefit immensely from that. Trump's actual legacy on the economy is simply the gross mismanagement of the pandemic. Which granted, was always going to cause an economic disaster but the disaster could have been lessened a fair bit.
 

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I'm not sure why taxes are being blamed and not the corporations/wealthy people themselves. They can afford to pay more taxes, they just don't want to out of greed. That's on them, but somehow they get away with so much.
 

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???

Contrary to common misconception, residents of Puerto Rico do pay federal income taxes. As with any state, however, those Puerto Rico residents who fall below the federal tax threshold (i.e., "the poor") do not pay federal income taxes at all. The U.S. federal taxes all residents must pay include US customs taxes,[1] federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, and Unemployment taxes).


....

After all, aren’t U.S. citizens taxable on their worldwide income? Yes, but Puerto Rico is a U.S. Commonwealth, part of the U.S. but in some ways still independent. Its tax system is a hybrid, part U.S., part not. If you can really move yourself and/or your business, you may be able to cut your income taxes to the bone. But you have to be careful. The interaction between the IRS and the taxman in Puerto Rico is nuanced, requiring some Puerto Ricans to file with the IRS, some with the Puerto Rico Department of Finance, and some with both. Still, Puerto Rico hopes to lure American mainlanders with an income tax of only 4%. Legally avoiding the 37% federal rate and the 13.3% California (or other state) rate sounds pretty good. What’s more, there is no tax on dividends, and no capital gain tax in Puerto Rico.



4% income tax is far less than one would think judging from the source you posted.


:toc
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

GM has been doing poorly in for decades now... Trump ultimately didn't manage to have an impact on whether companies left or stayed in the US. We saw at the start of Trump's presidency how he tried to negotiate with companies to stay in the US... And those companies ultimately took the money trump gave them and still left or moved productions as they pleased. Hence why Trump quietly stopped "negotiating" like this and never bragged about it again. Imagine how big a failure this was for trump to not find a way to brag about it.

The US has the following situation...

On one hand you have that people need healthcare, infraestructure, education and this shit costs money. And it is normally funded via taxpayer money.

On the other hand you have increasingly larger corporations who threaten to leave if their taxes are raised... And even if they aren't raised, they threaten to leave if they aren't lowered.

So... shit out of luck?

GM is a story of excess and waste present in US business culture. Sending in Ed Whitacre to smooth GM's issues out was a good move made there imo.

If Trump achieved record economic and job growth. It could be fair to say he succeeded in having an impact?

I don't know if anyone noticed but Trump might have low key bragged about his record low unemployment, record job creation and record economic growth under his admin practically everyday. Far from never mentioning it again, he talked about it constantly.

:toc

The government said they would hike taxes to fix healthcare under obamacare. Then what did they do? They tried to force businesses to pay the cost of health insurance for employees out of their own pockets. The government said they would implement corona testing. What did they do. They forced walmarts, targets and businesses to do the actual testing.

There could be a lesson there most will never realize.


:invalid


Governments make big promises. Then force the private sector to fulfill those promises. Cuz corporations are the only ones competent, efficient and functional enough to get the job done. Is that possible? Hm. It might be.
 

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You're arguing over tax rate minutiae when it still doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have the effect you're suggesting. On top of businesses having to uproot themselves and move to Puerto Rico, there's also the reality that all of these tax incentives could disappear after PR solves their bankruptcy issues. It's not the same as businesses moving their company HQs to Delaware despite no one working there.

Also there's no such thing as "unfair tax hikes" with corporations when a large part of their business model is avoiding paying as much taxes as humanly possible.
 

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Trump's pre pandemic economy behaved pretty much the same as Obama's. Which wasn't great either. As in, both had lots of wall street gains but middle and lower income folk didn't exactly benefit immensely from that. Trump's actual legacy on the economy is simply the gross mismanagement of the pandemic. Which granted, was always going to cause an economic disaster but the disaster could have been lessened a fair bit.

Obama's economy revolved around tax hikes & big state spending.

Trump's was the polar opposite, tax cuts and reduced spending.

Stimulating small businesses to accelerate job growth is the go to talking point for politicians. Obama's $1.4 trillion stimulus package created 1 job at an average cost of between $100,000 to $300,000. While Trump's approach was simply to cut taxes and reduce regulation. Trump's plan was by far the superior & more effective option. People cite Biden's stimulus as something "new". In reality, its a far worse and more corrupt version of the same plan Obama passed 2009'ish.

If it is true that 40% of corona fatalities in the US are attributable to Cuomo moving infected patients into nursing homes. How does Trump receive blame?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I'm not sure why taxes are being blamed and not the corporations/wealthy people themselves. They can afford to pay more taxes, they just don't want to out of greed. That's on them, but somehow they get away with so much.

Business is a competitive environment.

Many chinese corporations are said to pay 0% corporate tax rates.

Which can make it difficult or impossible for american corporations to compete.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

You're arguing over tax rate minutiae when it still doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have the effect you're suggesting. On top of businesses having to uproot themselves and move to Puerto Rico, there's also the reality that all of these tax incentives could disappear after PR solves their bankruptcy issues. It's not the same as businesses moving their company HQs to Delaware despite no one working there.

Also there's no such thing as "unfair tax hikes" with corporations when a large part of their business model is avoiding paying as much taxes as humanly possible.

Everyone wants to punish US corporations & force them to pay higher taxes.


So that the state can use that money to give illegal immigrants free healthcare, fund more feminist parades, transgender sex changes. and satanist church after school programs. On top of them funding more $6 trillion dollar wars in the middle east that fail to produce anything of tangible value to anyone.

The real solution here is for EVERYONE to pay lower taxes, and the state to do a more responsible job with their budgeting.


:invalid
 

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GM is a story of excess and waste present in US business culture. Sending in Ed Whitacre to smooth GM's issues out was a good move made there imo.

If Trump achieved record economic and job growth. It could be fair to say he succeeded in having an impact?

I don't know if anyone noticed but Trump might have low key bragged about his record low unemployment, record job creation and record economic growth under his admin practically everyday. Far from never mentioning it again, he talked about it constantly.

The government said they would hike taxes to fix healthcare under obamacare. Then what did they do? They tried to force businesses to pay the cost of health insurance for employees out of their own pockets. The government said they would implement corona testing. What did they do. They forced walmarts, targets and businesses to do the actual testing.

There could be a lesson there most will never realize.

Governments make big promises. Then force the private sector to fulfill those promises. Cuz corporations are the only ones competent, efficient and functional enough to get the job done. Is that possible? Hm. It might be.
Trump didn't achieve record economic growth... The economy under trump grew at the same rate as during the obama years and then crashed and burned during the pandemic. Job growth was also very much in line with what was going on when obama's second term ended. Unemployment got to where it was during trump's tenure because of math, not because of trump did anything that caused an spike in hiring...

Welp, it's not like the government can tax businesses and private people in order to have their own systems and infrastructure running and all that jazz. If they do then businesses go to china, but if they don't there are exactly zero mechanisms to ensure people get vaccinated, even though it would be good for the economy.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Obama's economy revolved around tax hikes & big state spending.

Trump's was the polar opposite, tax cuts and reduced spending.

Stimulating small businesses to accelerate job growth is the go to talking point for politicians. Obama's $1.4 trillion stimulus package created 1 job at an average cost of between $100,000 to $300,000. While Trump's approach was simply to cut taxes and reduce regulation. Trump's plan was by far the superior & more effective option. People cite Biden's stimulus as something "new". In reality, its a far worse and more corrupt version of the same plan Obama passed 2009'ish.

If it is true that 40% of corona fatalities in the US are attributable to Cuomo moving infected patients into nursing homes. How does Trump receive blame?
Trump did cut taxes but he did not cut spending in any meaningful way... If anything the deficit was increased substantially during the trump years. To the point where Trump pretty much yada yada yada-ed away his infrastructure promises because there was no money left for them. The simple fact is that if you cut taxes you reduce the government's tax revenue.

40%? where did that number come from? Trump mismanaged the pandemic regardless of what cuomo did, those are unrelated.
 

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Business is a competitive environment.

Many chinese corporations are said to pay 0% corporate tax rates.

Which can make it difficult or impossible for american corporations to compete.
This is not an excuse for businesses preferring to maximize their already good profits. It's their fault for moving out, not because of the government.
 

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...

Already the United States has protested to China after learning some U.S. officials were subjected to the testing method, according to CNN.

Ok. Enough serious talk for one day.

I'll leave this link and we can marvel together at our poor world going insane.


:super


I'm certain this is all the fault of Trump, am I right?
 

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Everyone wants to punish US corporations & force them to pay higher taxes.


So that the state can use that money to give illegal immigrants free healthcare, fund more feminist parades, transgender sex changes. and satanist church after school programs. On top of them funding more $6 trillion dollar wars in the middle east that fail to produce anything of tangible value to anyone.

The real solution here is for EVERYONE to pay lower taxes, and the state to do a more responsible job with their budgeting.
Mandating corporations pay more taxes is not a "punishment". Corporations are allowed to exist in the free market and exploit the American economic system and workforce to accrue insane wealth and then profit off of those profits in the stock market. Yes, there is innovation and ingenuity that is emergent from this arrangement but that doesn't mean you "reward" them by allowing them to pay less taxes. Trickle-down economics is a fallacy.

This is just pearl-clutching, talking-points whattaboutism. It's honestly mind-numbing to even think about addressing aside from the wasted military budget... glad we have some common ground. :)

How tax revenue is spent is a separate conversation from whether corporations pay enough taxes or not. It's really easy for conservatives to sit in their navel-gazing thinktanks and dream about "starving the beast" to solve everything, but who gets fucked over in such a scenario? It's definitely not them. But that's all that really matters in the end, right?
 

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I don't see it that way.... Biden looks fairly mediocre so far. He has pretty much bailed on several campaign promises and his thing about working across the aisle has done nothing but comically backfire on him. And that on proposals which are popular even republican voters (not that republican senators or even voters will care about that come the midterms). Biden needs to start looking so mediocre to his voters so that they show during the midterms.
Every US president ever did not deliver all of his campaign promises, at least in the last 30 or 40 years. I think Biden was better at keeping what he promised than at least Trump and Obama were so far.

Biden has a very narrow majority in house and senate but was able to get through with a bill that is, and not without reason, seen as the biggest progressive win in a policy packet to hit the US in recent history. They did not get through with the minimum wage, but if you compare this to Obama, who had a far more generous majority but balked to get a bipartisan packet, this is huge.

Getting this through house and senate is an accomplishment that was not insanely likely. Demcrats were prepared to have to rely on republican support to go through with this, but they could avert it. If Biden keeps going at that pace, he is going to be a big reformer.
 
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