Australia isn't left wing though, the controlling party is conservative. The Prime Minister has majority of the time been from this party. They have a center-left Labor Party, and a center-right Liberal party. This was my point in asking you the earlier question, you have to contextualize political leanings. A right-wing grifter screaming about some nonsense in Australia on Twitter doesn't make Australia some extreme leftist state.
Gun laws are a terrible example for this kind of comparison anyway since other countries don't have the 2nd amendment in the first place.
You do know that the US is already secular, right?
Labor parties are always far left, despite what you might have heard.
Labor is never moderate or centrist. Which shows in australia pushing far left platforms like mass gun disarms for the public. Australia has also pushed far left internet censorship and control resembling china's, which is why their ping stats with most ISP's for online gaming are terrible.
People want to label left wing establishment as "moderate" or "centrist" despite there being no evidence for it. For some strange reason, people can't admit the people and groups they support are left wing.
The majority of americans are right wing. Only the government, intelligence agencies, schools & regulators are secular.
He hasn't offered "free stuff," and these "free stuff" is ours anyway. Why are wealthy people and corporations allowed to get free stuff, but those who need it aren't?
There's been no free healthcare, free UBI, or free education yet and likely won't be under Biden, he's shot that down. He didn't extend pandemic relief or unemployment, does not support Medicare For All, and has not supported cancelling student debt or making colleges free.
He may say left wing stuff, but he in fact is not left wing and at most is a moderate/centrist, as seen with how he's trying to appease Republicans and cares more about working with them than he does with left winger. Would be nice if you actually paid attention to politics and knew something about it instead of going by what InfoWars and Fox News tell you.
He hasn't offered "free stuff," and these "free stuff" is ours anyway. Why are wealthy people and corporations allowed to get free stuff, but those who need it aren't?
There's been no free healthcare, free UBI, or free education yet and likely won't be under Biden, he's shot that down. He didn't extend pandemic relief or unemployment, does not support Medicare For All, and has not supported cancelling student debt or making colleges free.
He may say left wing stuff, but he in fact is not left wing and at most is a moderate/centrist, as seen with how he's trying to appease Republicans and cares more about working with them than he does with left winger. Would be nice if you actually paid attention to politics and knew something about it instead of going by what InfoWars and Fox News tell you.
I'll cite you another example of Joe Biden pushing classic left wing ideology. So you have more relevant facts you can completely ignore.
Venezuela's President Threatens Toyota, GM
Dec. 27, 2009
Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, beset by a recession that is hurting his popularity, has turned his sights on international car companies, threatening them with nationalization and pledging to ramp up government intervention in their local businesses.
The populist leader has threatened to expropriate Toyota Motor Corp.'s local assembly plant if the Japanese car maker doesn't produce more vehicles designed for rural areas and transfer new technologies and manufacturing methods to its local unit. He said other car companies were also guilty of not transferring enough technology, mentioning Fiat SpA of Italy, which controls Chrysler Group LLC, and General Motors Co.
Venezuelan President Chavez threatened to expropriate a Toyota assembly plant if it doesn't make more vehicles designed for rural areas and increase technology transfer.
www.wsj.com
Notice how democrats have your rage directed against corporations and the rich.
Its the same tactic Hugo Chavez used in venezuela in 2009.
Hugo Chavez attacked corporations in venezuela and blamed them for everything. Identical to how Biden and democrats are attacking facebook, amazon and big tech in the USA today.
Literally everything Joe Biden does and says is 100% identical to the same ideology and principles left wingers pushed in cuba, venezuela, australia and many other places.
Its literally the same tactics and strategy the left has used for the past 100 years. And people still have not caught on.
Ironically Biden and the Dems are still protecting corporations and acting the opposite of what the left believe in. Lemme know when you have facts and not... weird-ass "logic."
Ironically Biden and the Dems are still protecting corporations and acting the opposite of what the left believe in. Lemme know when you have facts and not... weird-ass "logic."
Imagine that left wing communists in 1926 used anti facism as a logo and flag. And that marxists in the USA use the identical logo today. Without the public catching on to the fact that the two are related.
Cue M3J with his "antifa is a centrist moderate organization".
...
Its ok M3J.
You won't remember a word I said here in 2 weeks and can go back to saying Joe Biden is a "centrist moderate".
(Despite there being zero evidence of Joe Biden or democrats ever supporting anything a moderate / centrist is supposed to support.)
Its basically what everyone else does.
..
Its only those like myself who actually care about being truthful, honest and accurate on things who are the real freaks. Am I right?
Labor parties are always far left, despite what you might have heard.
Labor is never moderate or centrist. Which shows in australia pushing far left platforms like mass gun disarms for the public. Australia has also pushed far left internet censorship and control resembling china's, which is why their ping stats with most ISP's for online gaming are terrible.
People want to label left wing establishment as "moderate" or "centrist" despite there being no evidence for it. For some strange reason, people can't admit the people and groups they support are left wing.
The majority of americans are right wing. Only the government, intelligence agencies, schools & regulators are secular.
I don't think you know the first thing about Australia's Labor party, let alone have standing to call it "far left". Government programs aren't "far left". This was my point in asking what "far left" means to you. It has nothing to do with my point in the first place though, as the Liberal Party is conservative and has been in power more often than any left-leaning party, as well as in recent history where it's obviously most relevant.
Latency in Australia for online games is terrible because most companies are cheap and don't bother hosting game servers in Australia. And if they do, they're labeled "Oceania" and often aren't located in Australia proper. Maybe I'm missing something, but what does that have to do with censorship? Requiring companies remove things from certain games in order for them to be sold in Australia has nothing to do with where game servers are physically located, obviously.
No one said Labor isn't left wing, but as Australia is a parliamentary democracy, they have to establish a coalition in order to have a functioning government. That includes drifting towards the center out of necessity.
Yes, because secularism literally means the government has no state sponsored religion.
Labor parties are always far left, despite what you might have heard.
Labor is never moderate or centrist. Which shows in australia pushing far left platforms like mass gun disarms for the public. Australia has also pushed far left internet censorship and control resembling china's, which is why their ping stats with most ISP's for online gaming are terrible.
People want to label left wing establishment as "moderate" or "centrist" despite there being no evidence for it. For some strange reason, people can't admit the people and groups they support are left wing.
The majority of americans are right wing. Only the government, intelligence agencies, schools & regulators are secular.
After reading this... I can only point out that there are more than two ideologies in the world. And most of those are not based around silly US notions of what conservative-liberal, right-left is.
Is it worth the time to argue with someone who thinks Biden is left even though most of his actions and words in office have not come close to what the left believe in?
That's like saying there are ideologies other than the weather being hot, comfortable or cold.
Labor parties have historically been far left demographics who push far left agendas by offering the working class *free stuff* and blaming capitalism for all faults of the state. Russia under Stalin defined their labor party using terms such as the proletariat. The history and precedent for labor parties being far left demographics stretches far back in history. Its roots are clearly visible in the foundation of the USSR, communist china, communist cuba and many other far left totalitarian states.
The basic fundamentals and history of labor parties is that of them being far left institutions.
So tell me, what facts, science, logic or evidence you have that supports the bizarre theory of labor parties not being a historical far left demographic?
Is it worth the time to argue with someone who thinks Biden is left even though most of his actions and words in office have not come close to what the left believe in?
My experience with democrat supporters and Trump haters is.
They have a lot of confidence. They're enthusiastic about arguing as they have come to believe negative media stereotypes about right wing conservatives which inaccurately portray them as being low IQ fools and troglodytes who don't know basic facts, or science on anything.
They enter the debate expecting an easy victory.
...
Facts get dropped. In an effort to raise levels of discussion, education and awareness. For the betterment of civilization and society.
For some strange reason democrat supporters/Trump haters are offended by this and don't like it.
All I'm going to say is, people can't truly support science or progress, if they can't be bothered to question their own perspective.
as the Liberal Party is conservative and has been in power more often than any left-leaning party, as well as in recent history where it's obviously most relevant.
Latency in Australia for online games is terrible because most companies are cheap and don't bother hosting game servers in Australia. And if they do, they're labeled "Oceania" and often aren't located in Australia proper.
The australian government blames damaged undersea cables for slow latency and internet connectivity.
This explanation is false, as some ISPs (the ones that don't participate in australia's internet censorship) have good connectivity and ping. While other ISPs are terrible.
Aussie telecoms being routed through a maze of unnecessary servers (internet censorship) has always been the issue.
No one said Labor isn't left wing, but as Australia is a parliamentary democracy, they have to establish a coalition in order to have a functioning government. That includes drifting towards the center out of necessity.
1. Trump would be good for the US economy.
2. Letting thousands of illegal immigrants in the country, would create a crisis as we have no jobs for them.
In 2016 democrat supporters and Trump haters said 2 things.
1. Trump would be a disaster.
2. We need to support open borders.
...
Some of you have been wrong about everything since 2016.
You've supported everything that was utterly terrible for your country, your friends and your families.
And are still continuuing on as if you had been right about everything.
Blaming those who have been right about everything, who supported all the right things, for your own poor choices.
That's like saying there are ideologies other than the weather being hot, comfortable or cold.
Labor parties have historically been far left demographics who push far left agendas by offering the working class *free stuff* and blaming capitalism for all faults of the state. Russia under Stalin defined their labor party using terms such as the proletariat. The history and precedent for labor parties being far left demographics stretches far back in history. Its roots are clearly visible in the foundation of the USSR, communist china, communist cuba and many other far left totalitarian states.
The basic fundamentals and history of labor parties is that of them being far left institutions.
So tell me, what facts, science, logic or evidence you have that supports the bizarre theory of labor parties not being a historical far left demographic?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
My experience with democrat supporters and Trump haters is.
They have a lot of confidence. They're enthusiastic about arguing as they have come to believe negative media stereotypes about right wing conservatives which inaccurately portray them as being low IQ fools and troglodytes who don't know basic facts, or science on anything.
They enter the debate expecting an easy victory.
...
Facts get dropped. In an effort to raise levels of discussion, education and awareness. For the betterment of civilization and society.
For some strange reason democrat supporters/Trump haters are offended by this and don't like it.
All I'm going to say is, people can't truly support science or progress, if they can't be bothered to question their own perspective.
Welp, and you still missed the point. Those parties are only far left when seen through the lenses of right wing US politics... Within their own contexts they would be simply left wing parties rather than far left. And of course they are parties which are comprised of people so they naturally have multiple factions with different priorities and a different ideological center. Let alone the fact that broadly most countries have the center at a very different place than the US. That's why universal health care is the norm is most other developed nations (yes, even in their right wing parties) while in the US it is nonsensically seen as a far left wing position... I have no love for soviets or and nothing but outright loathing for communism but modern day labour parties are simply not communist (generally, I don't know every country).
Basically, you are accusing parties of being far left wing from the warped perspective of far right wing politics without having any understanding whatsoever of the social context and perspective where they actually function.
Welp, and you still missed the point. Those parties are only far left when seen through the lenses of right wing US politics... Within their own contexts they would be simply left wing parties rather than far left. And of course they are parties which are comprised of people so they naturally have multiple factions with different priorities and a different ideological center. Let alone the fact that broadly most countries have the center at a very different place than the US. That's why universal health care is the norm is most other developed nations (yes, even in their right wing parties) while in the US it is nonsensically seen as a far left wing position... I have no love for soviets or and nothing but outright loathing for communism but modern day labour parties are simply not communist (generally, I don't know every country).
Basically, you are accusing parties of being far left wing from the warped perspective of far right wing politics without having any understanding whatsoever of the social context and perspective where they actually function.
The left systematically targeted and destroyed the right conservative demographic in much of the world outside of the USA.
America is the only country with a left versus right wing conflict, as it is virtually the only nation remaining with a legitimate right wing demographic. The only remaining right wing demographic that cares about bearing arms to stave off oppression and exploitation by big government. That actually supports legitimate right wing values and beliefs.
Around the world we see populist (right wing) versus socialist (left wing) conflicts arising as people become increasingly dissatisfied with secularism, socialism and the left. And of course, the media majority wise turns a blind eye to this. With most of the reliable information coming from anonymous blogger and independent media sources.
Every media outlet is owned and funded by the far left. There are only very few conservative owned and funded media sources, like breitbart remaining.
The media being 99.9% left wing owned can get away with saying communists, secularists and socialists are "centrist, moderate" and people will generally believe it. Being that the left wing has a monopoly and complete control over the media, people rely upon for their news and information.
But that doesn't mean that the narratives and stories the media publishes about a "centrist, moderate" left, are true.
The left systematically targeted and destroyed the right conservative demographic in much of the world outside of the USA.
America is the only country with a left versus right wing conflict, as it is virtually the only nation remaining with a legitimate right wing demographic. The only remaining right wing demographic that cares about bearing arms to stave off oppression and exploitation by big government. That actually supports legitimate right wing values and beliefs.
Around the world we see populist (right wing) versus socialist (left wing) conflicts arising as people become increasingly dissatisfied with secularism, socialism and the left. And of course, the media majority wise turns a blind eye to this. With most of the reliable information coming from anonymous blogger and independent media sources.
Every media outlet is owned and funded by the far left. There are only very few conservative owned and funded media sources, like breitbart remaining.
The media being 99.9% left wing owned can get away with saying communists, secularists and socialists are "centrist, moderate" and people will generally believe it. Being that the left wing has a monopoly and complete control over the media, people rely upon for their news and information.
But that doesn't mean that the narratives and stories the media publishes about a "centrist, moderate" left, are true.
That's just plain nonsense. When did, say, England have a right wing comparable to the US? Or france? Or australia? Or finland? That has literally never in human history been a thing. They have had right wings of course but through history they have still always been left of the US rightwing. Add to that for the past several decades the world has definitely shifted rightward.... You know those "far left" labour parties you were talking about? At least several of those started out as actual honest to god outspoken socialist-communists. And over time they shifted rightward to simply left wing social democrats. Several decades back democrats were pro union and pro universal healthcare... Which only relatively recently is starting to get some, but not too much, traction in the democrat party (though I will note that I am not exactly pro union). Heck, bill clinton specifically marked a decidedly rightward shift for democrats which is still felt today (and that rightward shift was of course a consequence of how right most of the world turned during the 80s in general).
It's also not true that every social media outlet is owned by the left wing... Though it is true that media over the past several decades has been bought by by a relatively small amount of owners and they usually push whichever thing they believe in (the most consistent one being that taxes and stuff that requires taxes to be paid for are evil).
Do you think Nazis were Socialists just because they called themselves that? The reality is someone who would call themselves a "classical liberal" would not be considered especially liberal depending on the country.
Contradiction or not, that's what the party is called and they're conservative.
The australian government blames damaged undersea cables for slow latency and internet connectivity.
This explanation is false, as some ISPs (the ones that don't participate in australia's internet censorship) have good connectivity and ping. While other ISPs are terrible.
Aussie telecoms being routed through a maze of unnecessary servers (internet censorship) has always been the issue.
So now it's some ISPs are good and some aren't, completely ignoring geographical and economic considerations.... right. It couldn't be that the infrastructure is poor, you know, just like in many places in the US where the internet is also awful.
This is just a No True Scotsman fallacy. In the context of a country and a government secularism refers to... the government. If someone wants to call themselves a "secularist" and say they avoid all aspects of religion in their personal lives, then fine. But that's not what secularism is.
Conservatives can piss and moan and use the word as a pejorative all they want, secularism is literally foundational to what this country is and always has been.
You're the only person who posts in this thread that acts like they have secret knowledge that is just too mindblowing to share, the answer to everything, and the audacity to gloat about it as if it isn't off-putting as hell.
I guess the good question would be have you ever been wrong?
The world has witnessed and lived through the failed promises of the left.
Which has produced a trend to the right. This allows for the recall of Gavin Newsom in california, #brexit, Bolsonaro becoming President in brazil, a movement towards independance in catalan and similar trends across the world.
You know those "far left" labour parties you were talking about? At least several of those started out as actual honest to god outspoken socialist-communists. And over time they shifted rightward
Near to every union leader in the USA is a registered democrat.
Which is why large corporations like amazon avoid(ed) unions as much as possible.
Obamacare doubled or tripled the cost of health insurance premiums for middle class and upper earners. Which is why there are so many boat owners flying Trump flags in parades.
Which only relatively recently is starting to get some, but not too much, traction in the democrat party (though I will note that I am not exactly pro union). Heck, bill clinton specifically marked a decidedly rightward shift for democrats which is still felt today (and that rightward shift was of course a consequence of how right most of the world turned during the 80s in general).
It's also not true that every social media outlet is owned by the left wing... Though it is true that media over the past several decades has been bought by by a relatively small amount of owners and they usually push whichever thing they believe in (the most consistent one being that taxes and stuff that requires taxes to be paid for are evil).
Do you think Nazis were Socialists just because they called themselves that? The reality is someone who would call themselves a "classical liberal" would not be considered especially liberal depending on the country.
Contradiction or not, that's what the party is called and they're conservative.
So now it's some ISPs are good and some aren't, completely ignoring geographical and economic considerations.... right. It couldn't be that the infrastructure is poor, you know, just like in many places in the US where the internet is also awful.
This is just a No True Scotsman fallacy. In the context of a country and a government secularism refers to... the government. If someone wants to call themselves a "secularist" and say they avoid all aspects of religion in their personal lives, then fine. But that's not what secularism is.
Conservatives can piss and moan and use the word as a pejorative all they want, secularism is literally foundational to what this country is and always has been.
Governments do not always represent the values, desires or beliefs of those they govern.
Out of the 300+ million in the united states, the majority belief in God, guns and the Constitution.
While secularists and the left in the united states government hate the Constitution and want to burn it. They want to deprive people of the right to own guns and send everyone to re education camps to transform them into atheists.
There's no fallacy, that is the basic demographic breakdown.
You're the only person who posts in this thread that acts like they have secret knowledge that is just too mindblowing to share, the answer to everything, and the audacity to gloat about it as if it isn't off-putting as hell.
I guess the good question would be have you ever been wrong?
Its about people needing good and accurate information to support the right candidates and policies. People needing to understand how things like US healthcare are broken. To have the slightest chance of ever fixing them.
It that's not important or a priority. Than what is.
The world has witnessed and lived through the failed promises of the left.
Which has produced a trend to the right. This allows for the recall of Gavin Newsom in california, #brexit, Bolsonaro becoming President in brazil, a movement towards independance in catalan and similar trends across the world.
There was no real shift to the right.
It was only pandering and a shift in left wing tactics.
Labor is still left wing and always will be.
Near to every union leader in the USA is a registered democrat.
Which is why large corporations like amazon avoid(ed) unions as much as possible.
Obamacare doubled or tripled the cost of health insurance premiums for middle class and upper earners. Which is why there are so many boat owners flying Trump flags in parades.
Bill Clinton was one of the furthest left leaning Presidents the united states has ever had.
Example the Clinton chinagate scandal. (Which of course you have never heard of)
Every media outlet is left wing affiliated and owned.
Which is why all of them attack Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Amazon and the same targets. And organize a united front.
Well, yes? But what exactly are you calling left? If you say cuba, venezuela or the soviet union then sure and good riddance. But there are plenty of countries out there where citizens are straight up better off than at the US and they've always had universal health care and a wealth of social programs along with that. In turn, they've never had republican like right wingers (they presumably exist under bridges or something though).
Welp, the "trends' you mention are a bit relative. The newson being recalled appears to pretty much depend on low turnout... So it's not exactly a trend right there. Bolsonaro is definitely the result of a swing right... BUT odds are pretty high that the country is going to swing left soon. You had the government before bolsonaro, that was also right wing, but as it turns out it was comically corrupt. Then comes bolsonaro and he runs the country like a jackass. We could be looking at a pretty hard swing left soon. And of course the most likely candidate is lula... A proven criminal and overall turd that should still be in prison while the key gets thrown away.
I mean, it's true that the left is far more adaptive than the right when it comes to tactics and whatnot... But in the case of the US left the tactic actually was to become more conservative. Can't say I know all the presidents but plenty of US presidents seem easily to the left of clinton (teddy, fdr, carter, obama, lbj, jfk...). Even nixon wanted to pass some healthcare reform but couldn't... So like... do you need like a top 20 of US presidents for clinton to make the list?
But what are union leaders supposed to do? Join SPUSA? Join the republican party? It's fairly clear that mainstream democrats have not broken their backs for unions over the past few decades.
ah, if only that was true, and if the right conservative demographic was completely demolished and destroyed here as well. USA and the world would be so much better off.
If you want to say the Nazis were some pseudo-left socialist party prior to 1934, then...okay? What's your point? No one anyone takes seriously claims the Nazis weren't far-right fascists. It's a contrarian take that's completely irrelevant to history.
This is just completely dishonest. Did you draw this conclusion by simply looking up Australia's population density? Australia has something like 85% of it's population living in urban areas. Why is that? Could it be because of geography??? There is no internet infrastructure in the majority of Australia because it's mostly sparsely populated. There's places in the Outback that still use dialup. When you compare these kinds of challenges with the fact that the closest major internet hub in Asia is over 4k KM away in Singapore, then you have a better answer to why things are the way they are.
Governments do not always represent the values, desires or beliefs of those they govern.
Out of the 300+ million in the united states, the majority belief in God, guns and the Constitution.
While secularists and the left in the united states government hate the Constitution and want to burn it. They want to deprive people of the right to own guns and send everyone to re education camps to transform them into atheists.
There's no fallacy, that is the basic demographic breakdown.
Based on what statistics? There are plenty of left-leaning people who are still religious. Are they not represented by their government if they elect someone who is areligious or of a different faith?
Having a "living document" interpretation of the Constitution is not akin to wanting to burn it.
Why is the right to own a gun put at the same level as religion to you? Both are protected by the constitution btw, and the majority of left-leaning individuals acknowledge this.
Its about people needing good and accurate information to support the right candidates and policies. People needing to understand how things like US healthcare are broken. To have the slightest chance of ever fixing them.
It that's not important or a priority. Than what is.
If it's never about being right or wrong, then why do you constantly bring it up? Constantly saying "i'm right, i'm right!" as a response to being challenged has no value and wouldn't persuade a child.
If it's never about being right or wrong, then why do you constantly bring it up? Constantly saying "i'm right, i'm right!" as a response to being challenged has no value and wouldn't persuade a child.
I'm not surprised, Yang proved he was trash during the primaries, it was amusing to see how he hurt himself by supporting Israel and then continued declining, otherwise he could have gotten away faking being an NYCer.
Gavin Newsome won the recall collection, and while I'm not a fan, I'm glad he did. The alternatives were so much worse, especially for women.
