American Politics

[Sanity Check]

Missouri Bill Seeks to Make Abortions for Ectopic Pregnancies Illegal in Restrictive Legislation

House Bill No. 2810 seeks to criminalize the production, sale, purchase or use of medical devices or drugs used for abortions

people.com

Man, the right really are evil, hypocritical pieces of shit. Claim to be pro-life but do almost everything against life. They really do hate women too, wow.

They're only passing anti abortion laws.

To scare away democrat voters migrating there from california and new york.

Any resident of missouri can drive out of state to have the procedure done.

The sad & harsh reality is many americans drive across the border to mexico to receive medical care @ reduced cost.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Vaccine mandates have existed almost as long as vaccines have.

What about "my body, my choice" in regards to seatbelt laws? Having a driver's license? Contractor's license? Law licenses? Medical licenses?

Vaccine mandates have always had some level of risk-stratification attached, and are riddled with problems of their own. For instance, to the former point we vaccinate, or OFFER some variations to seniors, college students, travelers abroad, etc. To the later roll-outs have a storied past, with plenty left injured.

This is in no way similar to a leaky, short-duration vaccine without long-term test results forced onto the entirety of a population to be a part of society, irrespective of their personal medical history/risk-tolerance/occupation/age and so forth.

Not only that but not all vaccines are the same as others, including the tech to employ them. Not all disease risk is the same either.

Put simply not everything is comparable to everything else.

 

[Sanity Check]

It's pretty improbable soy would have that effect on someone. Evidence suggest you'd have to eat an unconscionable amount of it regularly to begin having such an effect... It is a shame to replace meat with soy based fakes though.

It all depends on the biological mechanism.

There definitely is a generational decline in testosterone levels in men which has been observed and charted.

---

Why Are Average Testosterone Levels Dropping In Men Every Generation?

........

A disconcerting trend has begun to emerge. Over the course of the past several decades, testosterone levels in men - across all ages - seem to be declining steadily.

A seminal 2007 study by the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism showed that since the 1980’s, men in the United States’ testosterone levels have been dropping by about 1% annually.

We know a lot about the process that starts happening to men in their early thirties. We know that every year on average, these men start to lose about 1% of their overall testosterone level.

That’s normal.

What’s surprising about this study is that it shows that on top of that, young men have been averaging a loss of about the same amount of testosterone every year as older men do. That means a 25 year old in 2021 has about 50% lower testosterone levels, on average, than a 25 year old man from a generation ago.

The details of this emergent pattern have also been studied at length. A widely reported study from 2016 compared the grip strength — a broad but often telling measure of overall muscle mass — of men aged 20-35 with the strength of men who were the same age in 1985.

The results showed that we’ve collectively gotten a lot weaker over the years, and the current data suggests that trend isn’t slowing down anytime soon.

Why Are Average Testosterone Levels Dropping In Men Every Generation?

Let’s travel back in time for a moment. It’s the Golden Age of Cinema, the era of Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, Sidney Poitier, and Humphrey Bogart. Frank Sinatra rules the airwaves. Or maybe it’s the roaring twenties. Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald dazzle the world with

blog.fountaintrt.com

...

Generational decline in testosterone levels observed

Endocrine Today | During the past two decades, testosterone levels in American men have rapidly declined.This information comes from a long-term prospective study that evaluated changes in serum testosterone on a population-wide basis.

www.healio.com

 

[ninjabot]

Agreed! Unfortunately, there are too many double standards such as the phrase "my body, my choice". The democrats' argument against abortion has been "my body, my choice", but now the democrats have brought forced vaccination... causing the democrats' argument of "my body, my choice" to no longer hold up. We can not morally prosecute the republicans in this case!

No, it perfectly holds up. A pregnant person aborting their pregnancy doesn't have an effect on the people around them and thus it's not the business of anyone around them. The people around them should have no say in whether or not that abortion takes place, nor should they be allowed to moralize their decision and try to punish them for their actions during or after the fact.

Now, if aborted fetuses became airborne viruses that knocked up everyone that inhaled them, THEN it'd be analogous to covid.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

They're only passing anti abortion laws.

To scare away democrat voters migrating there from california and new york.

Any resident of missouri can drive out of state to have the procedure done.

The harsh reality is many americans will drive across the border to mexico to receive medical care @ reduced cost.

I don't want to get dragged into the played out abortion debate, but I can't understand the reason for singling out ectopic pregnancies. I think it has something to do with not allowing access to abortifacients in wide use (which is silly, particularly when it comes to Methotrexate which is everywhere, and traditional 'abortion instruments' are not used for tubal pregnancy removals as that is laparoscopic), as pro-abortion providers could claim they were necessary for an "ectopic pregnancy" in the absence of a real one (in this case overprescribing or false prescribing/diagnosing). I don't believe that's happening commonly though, if at all. And an easy way around this concern (real or imagined) would be to provide an ultrasound for instance to prove out a tubal pregnancy.

It really makes ZERO sense otherwise. Ectopic pregnancies really do present a risk to the mother, for a pregnancy that has zero chance at viability.

Basically, a tubal pregnancy IS a self-administered abortion done by the body no different than a miscarriage but in slower motion. Treating the mother is the right thing to do regardless of one's stance on abortion.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2022 ---

No, it perfectly holds up. A pregnant person aborting their pregnancy doesn't have an effect on the people around them and thus it's not the business of anyone around them. The people around them should have no say in whether or not that abortion takes place, nor should they be allowed to moralize their decision and try to punish them for their actions during or after the fact.

Now, if aborted fetuses became airborne viruses that knocked up everyone that inhaled them, THEN it'd be analogous to covid.

Vaccinations (of the covid variety) have proven out to only be useful for the individual, if at all, and not even for very long.

So.... no.

 

[xi0]

Vaccinations (of the covid variety) have proven out to only be useful for the individual, if at all, and not even for very long.

So.... no.

Even if the vaccines could be proven to be 0% effective at preventing infection, those vaccinated have a marked reduced risk of being hospitalized.

So, no that is not something that is "only useful for the individual." In fact it's a key goal for not only the vaccine, but any type of covid-related protocol put in place.

 

[Sanity Check]

I don't want to get dragged into the played out abortion debate, but I can't understand the reason for singling out ectopic pregnancies. I think it has something to do with not allowing access to abortifacients in wide use (which is silly, particularly when it comes to Methotrexate which is everywhere, and traditional 'abortion instruments' are not used for tubal pregnancy removals as that is laparoscopic), as pro-abortion providers could claim they were necessary for an "ectopic pregnancy" in the absence of a real one (in this case overprescribing or false prescribing/diagnosing). I don't believe that's happening commonly though, if at all. And an easy way around this concern (real or imagined) would be to provide an ultrasound for instance to prove out a tubal pregnancy.

It really makes ZERO sense otherwise. Ectopic pregnancies really do present a risk to the mother, for a pregnancy that has zero chance at viability.

Basically, a tubal pregnancy IS a self-administered abortion done by the body no different than a miscarriage but in slower motion. Treating the mother is the right thing to do regardless of one's stance on abortion.

I think the detection and treatment windows for ectopic pregnancies, in a worst case scenario, are large enough for bans to not comprise a health risk.

What it excels at is frightening liberals out of their minds, making them not want to migrate to missouri.

At which time missouri lawmakers might high five each other for a job well done?

...

There are past precedents for this, in 2016 (if I remember right) canada made a public statement informing americans they did not want disgruntled democrats upset over Trump winning the elections moving to their country.

Florida has also passed multiple abortion bans to deter democrat voters from moving there.

 

[DeadCosmos]

Vaccine mandates have existed almost as long as vaccines have.

What about "my body, my choice" in regards to seatbelt laws? Having a driver's license? Contractor's license? Law licenses? Medical licenses?

None of those cause things to be taken inside or outside of the human body unlike vaccine and abortion. Those usually are not used in arguments too.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Israel's Bennett advised Zelenskyy to surrender, but no, not People Magazine's next 'person of the year' - he'll hold out until the last slav-on-slav death it seems. (then he bails to a loving Western country, gets sucked off daily by loving housewives and CNN-watching stay-at-home dads with his big pay-off)

Meanwhile the Russian convoy is right on his doorstep, redeploying to start on Kiev.

Also meanwhile, Ukraine loses more cities in the East where the bulk of their good forces were stationed.

Baghdad Bob's take: Russians bad, inept (lol at one pocket of slavs fighting with soviet tech against another pocket of slavs fighting with soviet tech being particularly better or worse than their counterparts, but logic was never his strong suit)

Current count:

"The Russian Defense Ministry says that since the start of the operation its forces have put out of action 3213 objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine. So far, Russian forces have destroyed 98 aircraft, 118 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,041 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 113 multiple launch rocket systems, 389 field artillery guns and mortars, 843 units of special military vehicles."

Russian Forces Achieve Important Breakthrough In Donbass Region. Putin Supports Idea Of Involving Volunteers In Ukraine (Video)

Russia continues its offensive operations in Ukraine amid the expected inability to reach any real diplomatic solution of the conflict...

southfront.org

 

[xi0]

None of those cause things to be taken inside or outside of the human body unlike vaccine and abortion. Those usually are not used in arguments too.

The point is those things things are mandated in order to avoid risk for people other than the individual. That simply doesn't apply to abortion, so the "my body, my choice" argument doesn't apply to it either.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Even if the vaccines could be proven to be 0% effective at preventing infection, those vaccinated have a marked reduced risk of being hospitalized.

So, no that is not something that is "only useful for the individual." In fact it's a key goal for not only the vaccine, but any type of covid-related protocol put in place.

So........ you just described an event that was useful for the individual.

Or are you pivoting to the 'avoiding over-running the hospitals' non-event/fabrication?

 

[xi0]

Israel's Bennett advised Zelenskyy to surrender, but no, not People's next 'person of the year' - he'll hold out until the last slav-on-slav death it seems. (then he bails to a loving Western country, gets sucked off daily by loving housewives and CNN-watching stay-at-home dads with his big pay-off)

Regardless of his motivations, asking Zelenskyy or any other Ukrainian to simply give up their country is absurd. He's very likely screwed either way, as the second he makes a concession the armed populace doesn't like, his days will be numbered unless he becomes like Putin himself.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2022 ---

So........ you just described an event that was useful for the individual.

Or are you pivoting to the 'avoiding over-running the hospitals' non-event/fabrication?

Yes, but not only the individual. People miss work when they're sick, they lose money when they're sick, people and their families go hungry when they're sick.

How is it a fabrication? Or is it acceptable to have medical professionals overworked, delay cancer screenings, or delay any procedure insurance companies decide is "elective"?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Regardless of his motivations, asking Zelenskyy or any other Ukrainian to simply give up their country is absurd. He's very likely screwed either way, as the second he makes a concession the armed populace doesn't like, his days will be numbered unless he becomes like Putin himself.

Zelenskyy ASKED him to mediate. He gave advice and Z didn't like hearing it. Israel is attempting to be impartial, at Z's behest, and provide the best advice available. Bennett sees the writing on the wall, as do most who are sane.

The only thing that would give Ukraine a chance is a NATO assist. And that's not happening.

As such, there are now two possibilities.

Option A - Zelenskyy bends the knee, bows out, and the result is a Russian 'win' with the current death count

Option B - Zelenskyy holds out even longer, still loses his city/seat/position, many more on both sides die, and Russia still gets the prize



Zelenskyy can avoid option B, but that would mean being an actual leader and falling on a grenade for his people.

 

[xi0]

Zelenskyy ASKED him to mediate.

I'm talking about Zelenskyy's motivations. You seem to imply he's doing all of this for glory and a book deal. I think that's kind of a cynical take, regardless of what either of us could say about him.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Yes, but not only the individual. People miss work when they're sick, they lose money when they're sick, people and their families go hungry when they're sick.

So, my personal health needs to be put at a very real risk due to the cost of sick days? Weren't you just arguing for the government spending more money a page or so ago? Have them pick up the bill with more Fed digi-dollars; they are already anyways.

How is it a fabrication? Or is it acceptable to have medical professionals overworked, delay cancer screenings, or delay any procedure insurance companies decide is "elective"?

So, how many hospitals were ACTUALLY overrun? During the worst of the worst even.

I mean, I can point to medical resources that went un or underused at the height of covid. You're describing poor policy reaction, not actual biological or health danger.



In any event, covid doesn't pose any threat to civilization from slightly crowded ER's (the humanity!) to aerosolized EbolaAIDSPoxBlackDeath and anywhere in between. Particularly now with Omicron.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2022 ---

I'm talking about Zelenskyy's motivations. You seem to imply he's doing all of this for glory and a book deal. I think that's kind of a cynical take, regardless of what either of us could say about him.

You say 'cynical' I say 'realistic' - you don't think he has a golden parachute in all this? I can't throw a rock in any US city without hitting someone singing his praises. I thought you were concerned about IMF and other involvement from outside parties anyways. You think Zelenskyy is somehow insulated from outside conflict of interests? That he's deserving of being lionized?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022 ---

Zelenskyy's ... book deal

By the way, let's assume he survives this (he's certainly not in the trenches lol propaganda) -

A book deal is a 100000000% not only possible but probable. Come on, man.

 

[DeadCosmos]

The point is those things things are mandated in order to avoid risk for people other than the individual. That simply doesn't apply to abortion, so the "my body, my choice" argument doesn't apply to it either.

Another problem is the same people mandating it don't really believe that even though it may appear they do. 1. Trump signing $2 T relief bill 2. Brandon self explanatory 3. Newsom , democrat governor of california at superbowl 2022

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2022 ---

I respect Zelensky for staying in Ukraine and am also surprised, but he needs to face reality and surrender!

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I think the detection and treatment windows for ectopic pregnancies, in a worst case scenario, are large enough for bans to not comprise a health risk.

What it excels at is frightening liberals out of their minds, making them not want to migrate to missouri.

At which time missouri lawmakers might high five each other for a job well done?

...

There are past precedents for this, in 2016 (if I remember right) canada made a public statement informing americans they did not want disgruntled democrats upset over Trump winning the elections moving to their country.

Florida has also passed multiple abortion bans to deter democrat voters from moving there.

It's possible this is just performative and to influence behavior, which I certainly expect from both R's and D's, but not so much at the cost of health (not that either are particularly good at this given the covid response, but I digress) to the mother.

In any event, it's kind of hard to 'abort' a pregnancy that's effectively already aborted. It's like banning an abortifacient use after a stillbirth.

Either way it's a useless move from a treatment perspective, no upside, but the downside is a possible risk to the mother. I have a hard time justifying that regardless of which end of the spectrum one is in regards to abortion.

 

[Sanity Check]

I respect Zelensky for staying in Ukraine and am also surprised, but he needs to face reality and surrender!

March 8th, Zelensky: "We will fight till the end."

...

There wont be much "fighting till the end", if he surrenders?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Another problem is the same people mandating it don't really believe that even though it may appear they do. 1. Trump signing $2 T relief bill 2. Brandon self explanatory 3. Newsom , democrat governor of california

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2022 ---

I respect Zelensky for staying in Ukraine and am also surprised, but he needs to face reality and surrender!

I'll let you in on a little secret - they don't believe in their own requirements - and never did. That much is painfully obvious watching their behavior. You could find a hundred more examples up and down government and healthcare bigwigs - to include Fauci himself in violation (let alone his emails give away his feelings on at least masks as effectively useless). If masks were truly useful and/or if the scare of covid were truly a concern every one of these clowns would be in masks at all times, never leaving their houses.

6 feet apart is an arbitrary number, it has zero effect. There is absolutely no scientific basis for this figure.

Plastic barricades do nothing. Nothing at all.

The worst of all being what the children had to endure - for absolutely no reason in retrospect. Will someone think of the children?! *shakes fist at sky* ... but really though.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2022 ---

March 8th, Zelensky: "We will fight till the end."

...

There wont be much "fighting till the end", if he surrenders?

He'll see in retrospect that he got the same result, but with more deaths, just with a longer period until the same inevitable conclusion. What a hero. And the sycophants won't give it a second thought; he'll get a pass. 99.9% of people virtue-signalling about this couldn't give two shits about Ukrainians anyways. They didn't know or care about the deaths in Donbas; they only care when they are told to care.

 

[Sanity Check]

He'll see in retrospect that he got the same result, but with more deaths, just with a longer period until the same inevitable conclusion. What a hero. And the sycophants won't give it a second thought; he'll get a pass. 99.9% of people virtue-signalling about this couldn't give two shits about Ukrainians anyways. They didn't know or care about the deaths in Donbas; they only care when they are told to care.

I suspect russia is not doing much to damage infrastructure or target civilians.

They want to capture everything intact.

What might be awkward is if Zelensky surrenders before democrats can give him $14 billion in aid.

Zelensky has to collect his pallets of cash, before he pushes the surrender button.