American Politics

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,212
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
If people cared about children.

Wouldn't they do more to make baby formula more affordable and accessible.

Would they be pro life, rather than pro late term abortion.

How do you reconcile what people say, with their decision making process and history.
I wonder what sort of economic policies led to the baby formula situation in the first place? 🤔

It's interesting how you chose "pro late term abortion" in order to frame that debate in the absolute least generous way possible. Don't think that went unnoticed.

How does one reconcile claiming to be pro life, but also engaging in whataboutism when children being massacred at school is brought up?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Sane People - "This is horrific, something needs to be done to protect children"

Sanity Check - "People don't actually care about children, and here's why--"
 

Hakuteiken

Mangahelper
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
19,985
Reaction score
6,622
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
Casterly Rock
If people cared about children.

Wouldn't they do more to make baby formula more affordable and accessible.

Would they be pro life, rather than pro late term abortion.

How do you reconcile what people say, with their decision making process and history.
This is like coming back at any negative argument with "People are dying in Africa!" or any work related complaint with "Look at all Chinese people working for $1!". There isn't just a single issue in this world that needs to be addressed, and of course we all know it, and just because there is more than one issue to address doesn't mean we should neglect issues that rise to surface in prominent ways. That prominent way today is mass shooting of little kids.

Though, of course, you love ignoring whatever you like ignoring and resort to completely irrelevant arguments. You are presenting an ethical debate on abortion when the topic at hand is children/people getting murdered, something that is undeniably unacceptable for any party involved. Unless you want the equality of wanting to be able to murder people yourself, of course.

You are the one framing the entire thing in a political perspective, so that's something you should be concerned with yourself, not me.
As far as my opinion goes, who the fuck cares about their political consistency? If they can even correct one mistake committed, it's a win for people living in that country.
Talking about gas prices in the face of an emerging safety crisis is not going to give them that political consistency, anyways.

Mentally ill person mass murders children with his toy ARs and you dare speak about Ukrainians having guns against an invasion, all the while bringing up decision making process and shit.
Not even funny.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,212
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke




So it's not that the cops having 40% of the city's budget wasn't enough for them to have the equipment to take the suspect out after he crashed his car and before he entered the school, it's that their training was also completely useless too.
 

Hakuteiken

Mangahelper
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
19,985
Reaction score
6,622
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
Casterly Rock
Actually, forgive me for being factually wrong. It's not even an emerging crisis in US. It has been there forever ignored.
But whatever, really.
 

ninjabot

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
8,247
Reaction score
3,239
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Sanity Check said:
Well, let's see what public opinion says.

(Are you aware of the history of gun control and gun bans in the last 100 years of history btw?)

Last I checked, the public wasn't swayed by claims of 600,000+ COVID fatalities.

Will they be swayed by this?
Most people (and I actually mean most people, I'm not just talking about the Left. More often than not when a Republican says "the people" they mean Republicans alone) believe their should be some sort of gun reform.

I know you find it a compelling reason for gun bans.

But does anyone else?
I doubt anyone in here wants guns banned outright. We just want realistic change. I know you were here during the Rittenhouse conversation where I waxed poetic about how I want all Black people armed with guns during protests now?
 

Sanity Check

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
2,159
Reaction score
4,598
Age
41
Country
Akatsuki
Mentally ill person mass murders children with his toy ARs and you dare speak about Ukrainians having guns against an invasion, all the while bringing up decision making process and shit.
Not even funny.

Historically, guns are responsible for around 30,000 fatalities in the united states yearly. With a good chunk of those being suicide related.

Preventable medical errors in the USA claim around 250,000 lives annually. If the goal is to save lives, we would do better making a push to reduce preventable medical injury & fatality. There are many areas which would be better to focus on if saving lives were the goal.

The average life expectancy for young adults ages 19-24 in the worst gang crime regions is lower than the ages of US soldiers ages 19-24 stationed in war zones in afghanistan and iraq.

Black men in some neighborhoods have a higher life expectancy inside prison, than they do outside prison.

These are basic statistics which have remained relatively constant for decades. In worst offending states like illinois politicians have enacted the toughest gun control laws in the control, which did nothing.

Personally, I was upset over children being killed 15 years ago, when I first heard about US drone strikes on civilians (women and children) in the middle eastern war. As that seemed like an easy thing to fix, but for whatever reason no one cared about that.

The facts are known. Crime and violence always peak during times of economic crisis. There was a peak during the 2008 crisis. Another peak during COVID. And now with high gas prices and food shortages we are witnessing yet another peak in crime and violence.

Normalizing gas prices, inflation and food shortages would do more to reduce violence and crime than gun control would.

(If europe experiences those negative circumstances associated with economic crisis, expect a big uptrend in violence and crime there as well)

Shallow attempts to leverage these tragedies for political gain may not sit well with the public. Especially for those who make an effort to know what the basic facts and statistics are.

edit


This is my standard gun control response since around 2012. Its hard to say whether progress has been made since then.

I think the country has become more pro gun from 2012 to the present. Even liberals and democrats bought guns in record numbers from 2016 to the present.

The LGBTs were worried that Trump would put them in concentration camps after he was elected. They bought guns to defend themselves. Then COVID hit. There were pushes to defund police. People bought guns to defend themselves, their homes and families in case police were defunded and could not protect them.

There is history and trends relating to gun rights which many appear to have forgotten.
 
Last edited:

z.5

Only Half Psychic
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Global Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
3,984
Reaction score
18,542
Gender
Hidden
Country
Holy Britannian Empire
Preventable medical errors in the USA claim around 250,000 lives annually. If the goal is to save lives, we would do better making a push to reduce preventable medical injury & fatality. There are many areas which would be better to focus on if saving lives were the goal
What would be wrong with the US focussing on both?
Is America really so weak/strapped for cash/time/resources that they can not focus on more than one thing at a time?


This kind of whataboutism really holds no water, as it's just an excuse to do nothing
- more people die from heart attacks than from being hit by a car, so why spend any effort trying to stop people speeding?

It's the same as the old 'why stop people having guns? Then only 'bad guys' will have guns!'
- again, why stop people driving down the pavement sidewalk at 200 kmph? What's the point in having rules for everyone when criminals aren't going to follow them anyway?!?
 

Sanity Check

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
2,159
Reaction score
4,598
Age
41
Country
Akatsuki
I think the country has become more pro gun from 2012 to the present. Even liberals and democrats bought guns in record numbers from 2016 onwards.

The LGBTs were worried Trump would detain them in concentration camps after he was elected. They bought guns to defend themselves. Then COVID hit. There were pushes to defund police. People bought guns in case police were defunded and could not protect them.

There is recent history and trends relating to gun rights which many appear to have forgotten.

When people are frightened they search for ways to protect themselves and there definitely is no shortage of fear in this day and age.
 

Hakuteiken

Mangahelper
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
19,985
Reaction score
6,622
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
Casterly Rock
Historically, guns are responsible for around 30,000 fatalities in the united states yearly. With a good chunk of those being suicide related.

Preventable medical errors in the USA claim around 250,000 lives annually. If the goal is to save lives, we would do better making a push to reduce preventable medical injury & fatality. There are many areas which would be better to focus on if saving lives were the goal.

The average life expectancy for young adults ages 19-24 in the worst gang crime regions is lower than the ages of US soldiers ages 19-24 stationed in war zones in afghanistan and iraq.

Black men in some neighborhoods have a higher life expectancy inside prison, than they do outside prison.

These are basic statistics which have remained relatively constant for decades. In worst offending states like illinois politicians have enacted the toughest gun control laws in the control, which did nothing.

Personally, I was upset over children being killed 15 years ago, when I first heard about US drone strikes on civilians (women and children) in the middle eastern war. As that seemed like an easy thing to fix, but for whatever reason no one cared about that.

The facts are known. Crime and violence always peak during times of economic crisis. There was a peak during the 2008 crisis. Another peak during COVID. And now with high gas prices and food shortages we are witnessing yet another peak in crime and violence.

Normalizing gas prices, inflation and food shortages would do more to reduce violence and crime than gun control would.

(If europe experiences those negative circumstances associated with economic crisis, expect a big uptrend in violence and crime there as well)

Shallow attempts to leverage these tragedies for political gain may not sit well with the public. Especially for those who make an effort to know what the basic facts and statistics are.
I guess you are talking to yourself rather than responding, because none of this is remotely relevant to what I said.

No, the goal is not to save lives. The goal is to not allow demented fuckheads to be able to legally own guns and commit mass murder.
Yet you are adamant in talking about everything else besides the actual point.
Preventable medical errors, abortion, COVID, gas prices, supply chains.

No, normalizing gas prices, inflation and food shortages would do nothing, because mass murder is not some act of reason that has a foundation. Those kids did not die because of inflation, did not die because people were pro abortion and certainly did not die for any reason related to COVID. Though, of course, you are reducing the entire debate to nothing just so that you can proudly use the same words you coined a decade ago.

Exactly. I wholeheartedly agree that it's time to shut the fuck up about other shortcomings or holes in the US politics and not leverage this tragedy for gaining ground in totally absurd perspectives.
Especially for those who know how misleading statistics can be within certain contexts.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,212
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
There is history and trends relating to gun rights which many appear to have forgotten.
You mean like the Mulford Act?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---





I guess they were just underbudgeted or something
 

ninjabot

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
8,247
Reaction score
3,239
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Sanity Check said:
I think the country has become more pro gun from 2012 to the present. Even liberals and democrats bought guns in record numbers from 2016 onwards.
That's because we were terrified of gun toting cousin-fuckers that wanted to help Trump destroy democracy. People didn't want guns, they were frightened into accepting them.

Same with me. I didn't go out to get tooled up so that I can protect myself from gang members, rapists, or psychos. I got a gun to protect myself from racists and gun nuts.
 

McNuss

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
2,436
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
I got a gun to protect myself from racists and gun nuts.
But would you seriously been capable of firing this gun? Engage in a gun fight with these people if needed?

Or isn't that just a construct you are telling yourself to... Preserve your identity? Which is what this firearms bullshit is all about, on any side?

Like you want to prevent being viewed as a softy, as naive or an idealist? You need a gun to keep yourself among?

Honestly the idea of buying weapons to protect yourself from other weapons...

Aren't you just following their logic?

It's fucked up! Instead of changing the system, everyone is responsible for himself, "Everyone is its own fortune's blacksmith", as we would say in German... Which is the credo of capitalism.

The Killer? A psychopath, he was messed up in the head. Society has totally no responsibility for what happened... Yeah sure. Let's get back to everyday life and buy weapons to protect ourselves.

Honestly, this fixation on one's self, this over-psychopathologization of our society, this fixation on identity and doing the right thing is the doom of left politics.

Left people use sociology to analyze society and overthrow it.
 

Sanity Check

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
2,159
Reaction score
4,598
Age
41
Country
Akatsuki
Guns, swords, and weapons being the most valuable and sought after items.

In virtually every video game ever.

Why would you not want to own one am I right.

True equality is the government owning guns and you yourself owning guns.

To avoid an abusive relationship where the state has all the power and you have none.


:invalid
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
But would you seriously been capable of firing this gun? Engage in a gun fight with these people if needed?

Or isn't that just a construct you are telling yourself to... Preserve your identity? Which is what this firearms bullshit is all about, on any side?

Like you want to prevent being viewed as a softy, as naive or an idealist? You need a gun to keep yourself among?

Honestly the idea of buying weapons to protect yourself from other weapons...

Aren't you just following their logic?

It's fucked up! Instead of changing the system, everyone is responsible for himself, "Everyone is its own fortune's blacksmith", as we would say in German... Which is the credo of capitalism.

The Killer? A psychopath, he was messed up in the head. Society has totally no responsibility for what happened... Yeah sure. Let's get back to everyday life and buy weapons to protect ourselves.

Honestly, this fixation on one's self, this over-psychopathologization of our society, this fixation on identity and doing the right thing is the doom of left politics.

Left people use sociology to analyze society and overthrow it.
He just wants to defend himself because of the racist gun owners who won't hesitate to shoot just because of his skin.
 

ninjabot

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
8,247
Reaction score
3,239
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
United States
He just wants to defend himself because of the racist gun owners who won't hesitate to shoot just because of his skin.
Bingo.

McNuss said:
But would you seriously been capable of firing this gun? Engage in a gun fight with these people if needed?
I don't know, and I hope I never have to find out. But I'm happy knowing the option is there. I didn't buy a gun to get into a gun fight. I bought a gun to prevent a gun fight.

Honestly the idea of buying weapons to protect yourself from other weapons...

Aren't you just following their logic?
No. Believe me when I say they and I own guns for different reasons. I'm not buying guns to protect myself from a tyrannical government. I'm buying them to protect myself from racists. One of these is a problem black and brown people deal with often, sometimes leading to their deaths. The other is a non-problem that Republicans really want to be an issue to justify their persecution complex.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,212
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
It's fucked up! Instead of changing the system, everyone is responsible for himself, "Everyone is its own fortune's blacksmith", as we would say in German... Which is the credo of capitalism.
The "system" resists change despite things like most NRA members supporting background checks and/or gun control of some sort.

The average person has zero say in change, the "system" must be amenable to it first.
 

Sanity Check

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
2,159
Reaction score
4,598
Age
41
Country
Akatsuki


Trump claims 101 wins and 6 losses in the latest election cycle.

Republicans are winning?


:cheez
 

hokageji

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
3,744
Gender
Male
Country
United States


Trump claims 101 wins and 6 losses in the latest election cycle.

Republicans are winning?


:cheez
I think republicans will win, even with ignoring the link you shared..... Its expected... the market has plunged and will continue for a little more, Biden isn't as popular...
And majority of conservatives will vote for non-liberals... Trump may not win the popular but through electoral, he has a chance.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,212
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke





Yet people still want to act like cop apologia is in anyone's best interests. As if calling for bloated budgets to be slashed is demonic. As if precincts across the country don't routinely act with their own interests in mind and not with what's best for citizens that they swore oaths to protect.

Pigs will continue to be pigs, until they're forced to do better. That is what "defund the police" is about.
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
They need to be abolished, not defunded.
 
Top