American Politics

[ninjabot]

Words to live by.

Are you of the opinion that men can't give birth and women can't have penises?

 

[xi0]

It'll just be some wishy-washy retort that might mention biological sex, as if this person was ever talking about that in the first place

 

[ninjabot]

Yeah, I know. That or he'll post some obscure anecdote about Germany or the Netherlands to distract himself from the fact that his preferred political party is run by fucking monsters.

 

[xi0]

It's so very important to consistently undermine and ridicule 0.5% of the population because treating them with any amount of respect undermines the very foundations of society

/s

 

[Sanity Check]

It's so very important to consistently undermine and ridicule 0.5% of the population because treating them with any amount of respect undermines the very foundations of society

Strawman

 

[xi0]

Strawman

I'm responding to the type of person who would post that tweet and basically endorse it. Is it really a strawman argument? Just tell me you don't agree with it then?

 

[Sanity Check]

I'm responding to the type of person who would post that tweet and basically endorse it. Is it really a strawman argument? Just tell me you don't agree with it then?

Ridiculing people.

To avoid ridiculing their arguments in a rational and logical manner.

Strawman bro.

 

[ninjabot]

Strawman

Best case scenario, you're trolling and you're not actually a transphobe, which is still a disgusting thing to do to people that get enough shit socially. Worse case scenario, you ARE a transphobe and you're virtue signaling through this tweet because you're too afraid to state your actual stance on trans issues, which is disgusting AND cowardly.

EDIT: Even worse, the tweet is attacking people that are pro trans, not trans people alone. I don't even think you thought far ahead enough past this part and thought "Heh, this'll own the libs. They're dumb for accepting trans people, kukuku!"

 

[xi0]

Ridiculing people.

To avoid ridiculing their arguments in a rational and logical manner.

Strawman bro.

Ridiculing you or whatever point you think you're making in addition to what point I'm making isn't a fallacy though...

And again, if I'm wrong correct me. But saying "strawman" isn't a refutation of anything I've explicitly stated or implied.

 

[ninjabot]

Ridiculing you or whatever point you think you're making in addition to what point I'm making isn't a fallacy though...

And again, if I'm wrong correct me. But saying "strawman" isn't a refutation of anything I've explicitly stated or implied.

If he thinks you're misrepresenting his argument, all he's gotta do is steelman his own argument so we can stop getting it wrong.

Easiest thing in the world to do for someone who's arguing in good faith. If they're arguing in good faith.

 

[Sanity Check]

I support the US President of $1 gas prices.

Not your President of $5+ gas.

Amazing, right.

You gonna be mad?

 

[xi0]

I support the US President of $1 gas prices.

Not your President of $5+ gas.

Amazing, right.

You gonna be mad?

Ah, changing the subject. You just now tried to point out a logical fallacy, and now you're engaging in whataboutism instead. Explain to me how that isn't just troll behavior?

Refinement isn't nationalized, so please explain how a President can control gas prices? Unless this is you accidentally arguing for the nationalization of oil refinement, then we might potentially be of the same mind.

 

[Sanity Check]

Refinement isn't nationalized, so please explain how a President can control gas prices?

Google it.

 

[xi0]

Google it.

Strawman... I don't use google

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2022 ---

Shitposting isn't discussion btw, just wanted to get a bit silly for the sake of it

 

[kkck]

It continues to amaze me the extent to which gender politics are prevalent now not only in developed nations but also pretty much everywhere else. A discussion about 0.5% of the population has highjacked the majority of political debate and discourse. TBH I am just tired of it all. At times even angry at idiots who think their gender studies degree has any value. The world is burning and the entirety of the political discourse is about petty bullshit (not only gender though, but also race, conspiracy theories and ideology). The closest society nowadays gets to discussing economic policy is mumbo jumbo about ideological purity. Way too many people simply don't care about actual economic policy, how to make a government function or even basic democratic principles.

 

[xi0]

At times even angry at idiots who think their gender studies degree has any value.

You could compare that kind of degree to a lot of others though.

The way I see it, this kind of conversation would not be what it is currently if the Right wasn't actively pursuing and enacting laws that are just hostile towards this 0.5% of the population. For some reason it's treated as some sort of rallying cry against something deeply existential, and I don't see how they can feel that way when they themselves constantly bring up how statistically insignificant this group is. What is the motivation then?

 

[M3J]

Probably using transgender people (I assume those are the .5% of the population group that you're talking about) as a symbol to rally against, as the right often get support by using hatred and blaming others.

 

[kkck]

You could compare that kind of degree to a lot of others though.

The way I see it, this kind of conversation would not be what it is currently if the Right wasn't actively pursuing and enacting laws that are just hostile towards this 0.5% of the population. For some reason it's treated as some sort of rallying cry against something deeply existential, and I don't see how they can feel that way when they themselves constantly bring up how statistically insignificant this group is. What is the motivation then?

Oh, absolutely. Just, other worthless degrees don't have quite the same impact in the deterioration of political discourse. At least to my knowledge. I also wanna say other real degrees that are worthless don't usually pretend as hard to be scientists but I could be way off on that.

Religion, children. It's always about children (and aborted babies which democrats use for their satanic feast-orgy-bloodbaths). It'd be one thing if policy was meant and directed towards grown as people but when you get to teaching gender stuff to kids then... I mean, who would be surprised conservatives would lose their mind over this?

 

[catagon87]

It continues to amaze me the extent to which gender politics are prevalent now not only in developed nations but also pretty much everywhere else. A discussion about 0.5% of the population has highjacked the majority of political debate and discourse. TBH I am just tired of it all. At times even angry at idiots who think their gender studies degree has any value. The world is burning and the entirety of the political discourse is about petty bullshit (not only gender though, but also race, conspiracy theories and ideology). The closest society nowadays gets to discussing economic policy is mumbo jumbo about ideological purity. Way too many people simply don't care about actual economic policy, how to make a government function or even basic democratic principles.

This is just a natural progression. Democrats were against gay marriage when I was in High School. A serious disease was being toted by the then POTUS (Reagan) as a punishment for Sodomy. Violent crime was significantly higher from the 70s - 00's than it is today. Women were granted the right to vote only 102 years ago. We've had two great wars in the past 122 years. Basically, problems are a constantly moving target. Trans rights wouldn't have been a big discussion two decades ago, but due to progress in other areas it's what we talk about. For instance, a developing nation worries about how to feed their population. A developed nation worries how to keep their population from getting fat as fuck. I honestly don't see a mutual exclusion with economic policy and gender issues from an educational perspective. I think with economic policy most people feel like, to quote One Piece, an ant in a tsunami. You can go study it, figure it all out, come up with the right ideologies and the best case scenario is you disrupt the status quo, and host a talk radio show or something. The worst case scenario is you become successful, and give up on your ideologies in pursuit of self-interest. I mean look at Mitch McConnell. Did you know he was a HUGE Civil Rights Advocate? Did you know he was pro-abortion, and pro-union at one point? Just sayin' that the guy got a lot of influence, and look how he's used it.

Super-Tangent time: I'd honestly say that the right/conservatives are the source of most gender discussion. I don't even want to know how many times fucking Elliot Page has ended up on my feed the past few weeks, but you know what? NONE of that has been from Elliot Page. It's from fucking weirdos who think it's their duty to be upset that Elliot Page decided to become... Elliot Page. Most social problems in life can boil down to: "People need to mind their fuckin' business." My best friend chose not to circumcise their son. You know what he deals with always? People asking about his baby's fucking genitals. Constantly. I mean, "What Is a Woman" popped up this past week or so, and that's by a Right-Wing Blogger (who has said he would would murder every ape on the planet to save one human, but had no response when asked if he'd suck off a single dude to save all of humanity. Lol.) This feel that all we care about anymore is gender politics is intentional. On that point...

Conservative Bloggers/think-tanks have quite the loud voice, and this is political strategy. You know one thing that Conservatives/Republicans are way, way fucking better than Democrats at? It's not economic policy, freedom, or patriotism. It's strategizing. They know their target audience very well. They also have completely written off anyone that doesn't fall within that target audience. Democrats do not know their target audience well. Republicans use proven tactics to motivate crowds to move to the polls. They use legal (although it's abysmal that it is) strategy to pick their own voters. They knit-pick points that Democrats appear to care about, and paint a nice illusion that that is the only point they care about (trans issues, for instance).

In a time when there was a call for a disruption to the Status Quo the Republicans nominated Donald Trump. The Democrats met that nomination with... the most luke-warm candidate since Bob Dole (who was a Republican). Hillary Clinton. Republicans stacked the court to ensure that any bullshit they write into law stays that way for the foreseeable future. While Democrats are trying to precision focus on everything wrong with Trump (which, there's a lot), he's simultaneously focusing on the single, largest weak-point with Hillary. This shit is happening now. Biden can't have a tumble at age 82 without it being blasted on conservative media for weeks (I bike daily and I fucking fell off my bike a few months back, and I'm 35).

Full disclosure: I am center-but-left-leaning, and cannot stand Trump, or the current state of the USA. I feel the news inches closer and closer to a dystopian nightmare where The Onion is not parody, daily. I'm seriously tired of it. I'm tired of the moral and intellectual high ground that Democrats take when discussing politics. I get it. We're "smart." We go to college, they go to trade school. Why the fuck are we getting our asses kicked, though? Why are the supposed "idiots" losing zero followers/traction, and if anything, gaining supporters? Why does it feel like Democrats rule the country, but control zero percent of it? Why did Obama not pressure RBG to retire (don't give me your bullshit. Your fucking virtue signaling is why we're in the situation we're in. Again: Democrats might be more educated, but they fucking suck at strategizing). If Alito had been 85, do you honestly think Trump (or the Republican party behind Trump) would have let him go into another presidential term? Fuck no they wouldn't. Those seats are for life and a Justice in their 80s is basically a lame duck. Democrats in the USA need to learn what motivates people to vote. It's not gender identity. It's (usually) whether they can afford their rent / mortgage. It's usually when their amount due to the IRS sky-rockets while various CEO's pay next to nothing.

I don't want to disregard anyone's gender concerns/anatomical rights, but I just want you to know that making them everyone's concern is why you are losing them and every subsequent battle you care about. If your opponent is pointing out $4.80 gas, and you're pointing out how messed up it is that your 11 year old son can't take hormones, then you are part of the problem and what I'd call an emotional idealist. Focus on problems people care about, and regain control of the situation. Democrats saddle up onto way too many ideologies, and a side effect is that next-to-nothing gets done. Obama had the House, and Senate.. yet we still see tax loop-holes for the rich, and substantially higher rates for the middle class. Openly discussing things like Gender Identity, sexual autonomy, and all that is good and great but.. most people do not vote based on ideologies. Specifically I only notice younger voters doing this, and they make up a piss-poor percentage of voters in the USA.

TL;DR - I'm not Republican. I think that party is whack AF right now. However, they are also much smarter than Democrats in one regard: political strategy. We're all fucked if we keep making mountains out of mole-hills and ignoring the literal Mount Everest right in front of us.

 

[McNuss]

It continues to amaze me the extent to which gender politics are prevalent now not only in developed nations but also pretty much everywhere else. A discussion about 0.5% of the population has highjacked the majority of political debate and discourse. TBH I am just tired of it all. At times even angry at idiots who think their gender studies degree has any value. The world is burning and the entirety of the political discourse is about petty bullshit (not only gender though, but also race, conspiracy theories and ideology). The closest society nowadays gets to discussing economic policy is mumbo jumbo about ideological purity. Way too many people simply don't care about actual economic policy, how to make a government function or even basic democratic principles.

Well, the reasons for this we would need to get into detail...

In society and in regards to gender or sexuality, there are two driving factors: One from equality and one from individualism.

The left, like the actual left, the one you now call old school or whatever, often only looks at it from the perspective of individualism, as a product of capitalism and that's were this innate scepticism of the new "left" (actually bored teenagers on Twitter, but whatever) comes from, which then in turn leads to some of these old school leftists to adapt right wing rethorics, the result is self destruction.

However, for the past century, actually equality has been the driving factor for all sex or gender related movements: Same wages, same rights, even same responsibilities.

To further it down how strong equality can be as a driving force when compared to individualism, a comparison between the legalization of homosexuality in the West and East Germany is worth looking at:

In the GDR, Homosexuality was legalized in 1957, the same year a West German court still called homosexuals mentally deranged and against any morals.

Subsequently, the GDR also legalized homosexual relationships between teenagers in 1987, which then upon reunification led to the bizarre situation that for four years or something, gay teenagers from West Germany had to travel to the former GDR to make love.

All this happened despite the GDR, as a dictatorship, suppressing any form of emanzipation, and despite the fact that all forms of flamboyance were viewed as bourgeois and as such looked down upon. The only driving factor were antifascist and marxist driven narratives of equality.

However, this was the past century. With the conflict of two systems, sociology was the thriving school of science. Sociology analyzes the inequality in our society, as such it is the favorite science of the left and the home of their über-father Karl Marx.

But now, or rather since 1990 it's "Capitalism unleashed" and...

"Everyone is his own fortune's blacksmith" is a German saying and the credo of capitalism and...

Psychology. Oriented in individualism it believes in innate self healing powers... Sounds familiar?

As part of healthcare, it is monetarized and as such has a strong lobby. We always see them in movies and television shows and are constantly told to raise awareness for mental illness. Movie plots now revolve around the characters inside world rather than social issues.

As such, we constanly look deep inside ourselves. We have to work on ourselves to achieve more. Harder. Better. Faster. STRONGER.

We are responsible for our own happiness, that's what we are told all the time.

It's a science that only exists to maintain and empower capitalism.

And of course capitalism hates the left it hates socialism, it hates sociology. As such a capitalist society will automatically develop mechanism to destroy it.

Controversy sells, so what better than algorithms that push crazed psychopathologized whackos on the one side and of course already ready by itself psychopathologized reactionaries on the other side.

Like anyone that has a problem with the current developments around gender will eventually be suggested Jordan Peterson or similar, who will then push through their Nazi propaganda that is called psychology.

And that's the original intention of this. It's a wrecking ball through the left. All of these websites are owned by Elon and his friends, these are capitalists, destroying the left is deeply ingrained within their Habitus, by that I mean I don't want to throw in a conspiracy theory here, they are just reproducing the system that benefits them because that's how things work by default.

Tldr: The left has to get back to sociology as it's driving science rather Tha psychology as that only reproduces capitalism and doesn't change anything for the better for anyone.