American Politics

[kkck]

This is just a natural progression. Democrats were against gay marriage when I was in High School. A serious disease was being toted by the then POTUS (Reagan) as a punishment for Sodomy. Violent crime was significantly higher from the 70s - 00's than it is today. Women were granted the right to vote only 102 years ago. We've had two great wars in the past 122 years. Basically, problems are a constantly moving target. Trans rights wouldn't have been a big discussion two decades ago, but due to progress in other areas it's what we talk about. For instance, a developing nation worries about how to feed their population. A developed nation worries how to keep their population from getting fat as fuck. I honestly don't see a mutual exclusion with economic policy and gender issues from an educational perspective. I think with economic policy most people feel like, to quote One Piece, an ant in a tsunami. You can go study it, figure it all out, come up with the right ideologies and the best case scenario is you disrupt the status quo, and host a talk radio show or something. The worst case scenario is you become successful, and give up on your ideologies in pursuit of self-interest. I mean look at Mitch McConnell. Did you know he was a HUGE Civil Rights Advocate? Did you know he was pro-abortion, and pro-union at one point? Just sayin' that the guy got a lot of influence, and look how he's used it.

Super-Tangent time: I'd honestly say that the right/conservatives are the source of most gender discussion. I don't even want to know how many times fucking Elliot Page has ended up on my feed the past few weeks, but you know what? NONE of that has been from Elliot Page. It's from fucking weirdos who think it's their duty to be upset that Elliot Page decided to become... Elliot Page. Most social problems in life can boil down to: "People need to mind their fuckin' business." My best friend chose not to circumcise their son. You know what he deals with always? People asking about his baby's fucking genitals. Constantly. I mean, "What Is a Woman" popped up this past week or so, and that's by a Right-Wing Blogger (who has said he would would murder every ape on the planet to save one human, but had no response when asked if he'd suck off a single dude to save all of humanity. Lol.) This feel that all we care about anymore is gender politics is intentional. On that point...

Conservative Bloggers/think-tanks have quite the loud voice, and this is political strategy. You know one thing that Conservatives/Republicans are way, way fucking better than Democrats at? It's not economic policy, freedom, or patriotism. It's strategizing. They know their target audience very well. They also have completely written off anyone that doesn't fall within that target audience. Democrats do not know their target audience well. Republicans use proven tactics to motivate crowds to move to the polls. They use legal (although it's abysmal that it is) strategy to pick their own voters. They knit-pick points that Democrats appear to care about, and paint a nice illusion that that is the only point they care about (trans issues, for instance).

In a time when there was a call for a disruption to the Status Quo the Republicans nominated Donald Trump. The Democrats met that nomination with... the most luke-warm candidate since Bob Dole (who was a Republican). Hillary Clinton. Republicans stacked the court to ensure that any bullshit they write into law stays that way for the foreseeable future. While Democrats are trying to precision focus on everything wrong with Trump (which, there's a lot), he's simultaneously focusing on the single, largest weak-point with Hillary. This shit is happening now. Biden can't have a tumble at age 82 without it being blasted on conservative media for weeks (I bike daily and I fucking fell off my bike a few months back, and I'm 35).

Full disclosure: I am center-but-left-leaning, and cannot stand Trump, or the current state of the USA. I feel the news inches closer and closer to a dystopian nightmare where The Onion is not parody, daily. I'm seriously tired of it. I'm tired of the moral and intellectual high ground that Democrats take when discussing politics. I get it. We're "smart." We go to college, they go to trade school. Why the fuck are we getting our asses kicked, though? Why are the supposed "idiots" losing zero followers/traction, and if anything, gaining supporters? Why does it feel like Democrats rule the country, but control zero percent of it? Why did Obama not pressure RBG to retire (don't give me your bullshit. Your fucking virtue signaling is why we're in the situation we're in. Again: Democrats might be more educated, but they fucking suck at strategizing). If Alito had been 85, do you honestly think Trump (or the Republican party behind Trump) would have let him go into another presidential term? Fuck no they wouldn't. Those seats are for life and a Justice in their 80s is basically a lame duck. Democrats in the USA need to learn what motivates people to vote. It's not gender identity. It's (usually) whether they can afford their rent / mortgage. It's usually when their amount due to the IRS sky-rockets while various CEO's pay next to nothing.

I don't want to disregard anyone's gender concerns/anatomical rights, but I just want you to know that making them everyone's concern is why you are losing them and every subsequent battle you care about. If your opponent is pointing out $4.80 gas, and you're pointing out how messed up it is that your 11 year old son can't take hormones, then you are part of the problem and what I'd call an emotional idealist. Focus on problems people care about, and regain control of the situation. Democrats saddle up onto way too many ideologies, and a side effect is that next-to-nothing gets done. Obama had the House, and Senate.. yet we still see tax loop-holes for the rich, and substantially higher rates for the middle class. Openly discussing things like Gender Identity, sexual autonomy, and all that is good and great but.. most people do not vote based on ideologies. Specifically I only notice younger voters doing this, and they make up a piss-poor percentage of voters in the USA.

TL;DR - I'm not Republican. I think that party is whack AF right now. However, they are also much smarter than Democrats in one regard: political strategy. We're all fucked if we keep making mountains out of mole-hills and ignoring the literal Mount Everest right in front of us.

Maybe I am mistaken here but to me the acceptance of lgb folk among conservatives is not necessarily replicable for the rest of the letters. As far as I can tell even among progressive folk you'll find quite a lot of people who can barely stomach people who chose their pronouns or more crudely "girls with dicks". In large part because the gay debate didn't involve kids and their education as much. And it probably hit a little closer to home because gay folk are significantly more prevalent than trans folk. With gay folk the issue ultimately came down to not being assholes to them. With trans stuff you are talking about puberty blockers, gender affirming surgery and such things from insanely young age. There's also the education angle to consider here... At an absolute bare minimum it will take much longer for stuff after lgb to get nearly as much.... tolerance as lgb folk.

Welp, if it's which sides brings this up the most I would say it's probably about comparable. It's mostly reactionary mumbo jumbo. One side does something, the other reacts, then the other reacts ad infinitum. in terms of politics I definitely believe democrats focus on this stuff over doing economic policy. Because democratic politicians won't benefit from changes to the system and it's easier to scream gender stuff at people.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2022 ---

Well, the reasons for this we would need to get into detail...

In society and in regards to gender or sexuality, there are two driving factors: One from equality and one from individualism.

The left, like the actual left, the one you now call old school or whatever, often only looks at it from the perspective of individualism, as a product of capitalism and that's were this innate scepticism of the new "left" (actually bored teenagers on Twitter, but whatever) comes from, which then in turn leads to some of these old school leftists to adapt right wing rethorics, the result is self destruction.

However, for the past century, actually equality has been the driving factor for all sex or gender related movements: Same wages, same rights, even same responsibilities.

To further it down how strong equality can be as a driving force when compared to individualism, a comparison between the legalization of homosexuality in the West and East Germany is worth looking at:

In the GDR, Homosexuality was legalized in 1957, the same year a West German court still called homosexuals mentally deranged and against any morals.

Subsequently, the GDR also legalized homosexual relationships between teenagers in 1987, which then upon reunification led to the bizarre situation that for four years or something, gay teenagers from West Germany had to travel to the former GDR to make love.

All this happened despite the GDR, as a dictatorship, suppressing any form of emanzipation, and despite the fact that all forms of flamboyance were viewed as bourgeois and as such looked down upon. The only driving factor were antifascist and marxist driven narratives of equality.

However, this was the past century. With the conflict of two systems, sociology was the thriving school of science. Sociology analyzes the inequality in our society, as such it is the favorite science of the left and the home of their über-father Karl Marx.

But now, or rather since 1990 it's "Capitalism unleashed" and...

"Everyone is his own fortune's blacksmith" is a German saying and the credo of capitalism and...

Psychology. Oriented in individualism it believes in innate self healing powers... Sounds familiar?

As part of healthcare, it is monetarized and as such has a strong lobby. We always see them in movies and television shows and are constantly told to raise awareness for mental illness. Movie plots now revolve around the characters inside world rather than social issues.

As such, we constanly look deep inside ourselves. We have to work on ourselves to achieve more. Harder. Better. Faster. STRONGER.

We are responsible for our own happiness, that's what we are told all the time.

It's a science that only exists to maintain and empower capitalism.

And of course capitalism hates the left it hates socialism, it hates sociology. As such a capitalist society will automatically develop mechanism to destroy it.

Controversy sells, so what better than algorithms that push crazed psychopathologized whackos on the one side and of course already ready by itself psychopathologized reactionaries on the other side.

Like anyone that has a problem with the current developments around gender will eventually be suggested Jordan Peterson or similar, who will then push through their Nazi propaganda that is called psychology.

And that's the original intention of this. It's a wrecking ball through the left. All of these websites are owned by Elon and his friends, these are capitalists, destroying the left is deeply ingrained within their Habitus, by that I mean I don't want to throw in a conspiracy theory here, they are just reproducing the system that benefits them because that's how things work by default.

Tldr: The left has to get back to sociology as it's driving science rather Tha psychology as that only reproduces capitalism and doesn't change anything for the better for anyone.

I think we have different perspective on what old school left might be. At least I am not 100% of which one you refer to. To me old school left sounds like soviets or cuba or venezuela. Which I would argue are abject failures. If you clarify what you refer to here I might get your points a bit better.

As for the bold part... not really? I am not sure of where you are going with that. Or how you got to the sociology-psychology stuff. My impression so far is that psychology, as valid a science as it is, is soft enough that anyone can pretend their ideology fits into whichever psychological study and thus their ideology is backed up by science, is "objective". Which is what peterson does, he tries to pass his entirely subjective unremarkable opinions and political commentary as if they were science. Which is a shame because when he actually talks about behavioral psychology without polluting it with political mumbo jumbo he can be pretty interesting.

I feel like we also have different perspectives on what capitalism and socialism is.

 

[xi0]

Oh, absolutely. Just, other worthless degrees don't have quite the same impact in the deterioration of political discourse. At least to my knowledge. I also wanna say other real degrees that are worthless don't usually pretend as hard to be scientists but I could be way off on that.

Religion, children. It's always about children (and aborted babies which democrats use for their satanic feast-orgy-bloodbaths). It'd be one thing if policy was meant and directed towards grown as people but when you get to teaching gender stuff to kids then... I mean, who would be surprised conservatives would lose their mind over this?

Idk, I think that's hyperbolic. I think a sociology degree like gender studies is probably just as useful, if not more useful than a degree in philosophy. The worthwhileness of it is up to each person I guess.

Not all of the legislation is aimed at children necessarily, and there is nothing contained in religion that is really anti-trans as far as scriptures go IMO. I think religion is just a convenient excuse, just like with abortion.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2022 ---

I don't want to disregard anyone's gender concerns/anatomical rights, but I just want you to know that making them everyone's concern is why you are losing them and every subsequent battle you care about. If your opponent is pointing out $4.80 gas, and you're pointing out how messed up it is that your 11 year old son can't take hormones, then you are part of the problem and what I'd call an emotional idealist. Focus on problems people care about, and regain control of the situation.

The perception that they're "everyone's concern" is a direct consequence of people with power working against them. Like I talked about before, if this subset of a minority of people are so insignificant, then spend that much time worrying about them, ignore it, and get on with things that matter to the most amount of people. I think trans people would actually really appreciate that as well.

But that's not what is happening, and it isn't the Left that's perpetuating this whole discussion, it's a reaction to the Right's gleeful willingness to shit on them. And the attitudes contained in their talking points are the same ones utilized for discussions about sexuality in general, abortion, race etc. Republicans are the ones that want to make these people's lives harder.

 

[ninjabot]

It continues to amaze me the extent to which gender politics are prevalent now not only in developed nations but also pretty much everywhere else. A discussion about 0.5% of the population has highjacked the majority of political debate and discourse. TBH I am just tired of it all. At times even angry at idiots who think their gender studies degree has any value. The world is burning and the entirety of the political discourse is about petty bullshit (not only gender though, but also race, conspiracy theories and ideology). The closest society nowadays gets to discussing economic policy is mumbo jumbo about ideological purity. Way too many people simply don't care about actual economic policy, how to make a government function or even basic democratic principles.

The vast majority of people with any political opinion (not all, but the vast majority) only interact with politics as far as it has to do with their personal lives, the lives of their loved ones, or opinions on things that they may not be educated on, but have an emotional attachment to.

Everyone here knows a member of the lgbtq community, whether as just a neighbor, friend, or loved one. Not everyone here though, has any real insight into what's going on with the economy or what can be done to fix it.

 

[M3J]

My theory with the US economy is that businesses are deliberately trying to fuck us in the ass so they can try to force people to accept less benefits and pay out of desperation for money to make ends meet. It's not that people aren't looking for jobs, it's that companies aren't either willing to hire or people are being lied to and won't take that.

 

[xi0]

My theory with the US economy is that businesses are deliberately trying to fuck us in the ass so they can try to force people to accept less benefits and pay out of desperation for money to make ends meet. It's not that people aren't looking for jobs, it's that companies aren't either willing to hire or people are being lied to and won't take that.

This is how capitalism works, it's how it's always worked. You are paid the least amount possible to keep you working. And since you generally do not own a stake in what you produce, you never see the benefit of the profits. The difference is the general economic situation wasn't this lopsided and the cost of simply existing or furthering your education wasn't what it is these days.

Local businesses felt the pandemic the hardest because the margins at a place like the average restaurant were probably slim in the first place. When they couldn't coax people back to work at the pittance they paid them before, many of these places just went under.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 10, 2022 ---

 

[M3J]

This is how capitalism works, it's how it's always worked. You are paid the least amount possible to keep you working. And since you generally do not own a stake in what you produce, you never see the benefit of the profits. The difference is the general economic situation wasn't this lopsided and the cost of simply existing or furthering your education wasn't what it is these days.

Local businesses felt the pandemic the hardest because the margins at a place like the average restaurant were probably slim in the first place. When they couldn't coax people back to work at the pittance they paid them before, many of these places just went under.

Yeah but I'm saying that they're trying to hurt people as much as they can to force them to accept scraps to live. Like, some companies had to up their pay, and to make up for that, they're likely upping their prices and hoping that it'll force employees and future employees to take less pay just to get anything. Or is that how inflation worked in the past as well?

Likely was, but it does suck to see them blame workers for wanting better.

 

[xi0]

Yeah but I'm saying that they're trying to hurt people as much as they can to force them to accept scraps to live. Like, some companies had to up their pay, and to make up for that, they're likely upping their prices and hoping that it'll force employees and future employees to take less pay just to get anything. Or is that how inflation worked in the past as well?

Likely was, but it does suck to see them blame workers for wanting better.

I don't think you need attribute maliciousness to their actions... at least, I don't think that's a universal thing. This is just how the pyramid scheme works, the pandemic only exposed it.

 

[M3J]

There is maliciousness in willing to let the workers starve and lose their homes just to make an extra penny or w/e.

 

[catagon87]

The perception that they're "everyone's concern" is a direct consequence of people with power working against them. Like I talked about before, if this subset of a minority of people are so insignificant, then spend that much time worrying about them, ignore it, and get on with things that matter to the most amount of people. I think trans people would actually really appreciate that as well.

But that's not what is happening, and it isn't the Left that's perpetuating this whole discussion, it's a reaction to the Right's gleeful willingness to shit on them. And the attitudes contained in their talking points are the same ones utilized for discussions about sexuality in general, abortion, race etc. Republicans are the ones that want to make these people's lives harder.

That's kind of my point. I think the right sounds off the loudest voice in the room, and the response to it is what gets taken way out of context.

For example, the right might say: "We're letting 12 year olds take hormones! They can't even drink yet!!!"
After some back and forth we get a general response from the left (assuming through social media) with some seriously crazy outliers. The right cherry-picks a few outliers, then starts using the loudest voice in the room again to make them seem the norm. For instance, a big one I see lately is that the left is somehow having schools take Kindergartners to Drag Shows. I've personally never heard of a drag show that's even open at a time your average Kindergartner would be awake around here, much less during school hours. Not to mention that I actually have kids and going on field trips isn't some willy-nilly thing that happens at the school's discretion. Every single one requires a consent form from parents.

That's just an example, though, of one of the louder voices I constantly hear.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 11, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 11, 2022 ---

Republicans: "Life starts at conception! A fetus is a human being!"

Republicans: ".... Not like that."

 

[xi0]

That's kind of my point. I think the right sounds off the loudest voice in the room, and the response to it is what gets taken way out of context.

For example, the right might say: "We're letting 12 year olds take hormones! They can't even drink yet!!!"
After some back and forth we get a general response from the left (assuming through social media) with some seriously crazy outliers. The right cherry-picks a few outliers, then starts using the loudest voice in the room again to make them seem the norm. For instance, a big one I see lately is that the left is somehow having schools take Kindergartners to Drag Shows. I've personally never heard of a drag show that's even open at a time your average Kindergartner would be awake around here, much less during school hours. Not to mention that I actually have kids and going on field trips isn't some willy-nilly thing that happens at the school's discretion. Every single one requires a consent form from parents.

That's just an example, though, of one of the louder voices I constantly hear.

So what is the actual issue? The response from the Left? Or the cherrypicking by the Right? Like you said, most of the Right prefers to sensationalize these topics because... it works. There is a popular and prevailing sentiment among the Right that just about anyone that is considered LGBTQ+ could and should be referred to as a "groomer" by simply not denying their own existences. "But the children" is not a new tactic either, they'll apply it to anything.

 

[Sanity Check]

With the U.S. dollar nearly equal to the euro for the first time in 20 years, the impact is already being felt by Americans | Fortune

A strengthened dollar provides some relief from runaway inflation for Americans, but U.S. goods would become more expensive for foreign buyers.

fortune.com

Interesting commentary.

 

[catagon87]

So what is the actual issue? The response from the Left? Or the cherrypicking by the Right? Like you said, most of the Right prefers to sensationalize these topics because... it works. There is a popular and prevailing sentiment among the Right that just about anyone that is considered LGBTQ+ could and should be referred to as a "groomer" by simply not denying their own existences. "But the children" is not a new tactic either, they'll apply it to anything.

The issue I have is that the loudest (and least sane) voices on the right actually seem to be the most appealing to its voters. The opposite could be said for the left and their "loudest" voice. Just that the strategizing of the left is set up to always lose, even with the majority of support.

 

[kkck]

That's... a bit normal though. The left in the US isn't a single movement with a singular view. In the US the left is made up of many groups with their own agendas. The right in the US does have groups and factions of course but their policy positions are a bit more uniform, which helps them work together. It also doesn't help that biden's-hillary' ilk doesn't really stand for anything nowadays.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2022 ---

The vast majority of people with any political opinion (not all, but the vast majority) only interact with politics as far as it has to do with their personal lives, the lives of their loved ones, or opinions on things that they may not be educated on, but have an emotional attachment to.

Everyone here knows a member of the lgbtq community, whether as just a neighbor, friend, or loved one. Not everyone here though, has any real insight into what's going on with the economy or what can be done to fix it.

But... that's kinda the problem right? I don't think anyone has an actual grasp of the macroeconomic landscape anyways. Best case scenario someone manages an understanding of it that only applies to a specific point in time and then the world moves on. Empathy and kindness towards the entire alphabet is good and all but there's other shit going on and the apathy towards those helps no one. You don't need a phd to support economic policies which you think will benefit you.

 

[xi0]

Social media is cancelled

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2022 ---

The issue I have is that the loudest (and least sane) voices on the right actually seem to be the most appealing to its voters. The opposite could be said for the left and their "loudest" voice. Just that the strategizing of the left is set up to always lose, even with the majority of support.

Well maybe I misinterpreted your original post but it seemed like you were implying that the ones being the least sane were Democrats for talking about specific human rights issues, which they obviously do more of when the situation is a bit less favorable as far as gas prices or the economy goes. Or maybe it's a bit more topical because Republicans are pissing their diapers over it. Or maybe they've gotten bored of sucking off Wall Street.

I'm kind of crazy, I think most people can walk and chew gum at the same time. So the most sane can shit on regressive morons AND talk about the causes and consequences of higher fuel costs. I know, I know, I'm probably giving people too much credit.

 

[ninjabot]

But... that's kinda the problem right? I don't think anyone has an actual grasp of the macroeconomic landscape anyways. Best case scenario someone manages an understanding of it that only applies to a specific point in time and then the world moves on. Empathy and kindness towards the entire alphabet is good and all but there's other shit going on and the apathy towards those helps no one. You don't need a phd to support economic policies which you think will benefit you.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's valid. If someone were to tell me to stop focusing on one problem so I can focus on a problem that they care about more, the only logical response is: "Fuck you, die mad." My lack of knowledge of the economy doesn't invalidate my abundance of knowledge on the other social problems I focus on when I vote. And I may not be helping fix one problem, but I am fixing another.

Would it be preferable if I had more than a remedial understanding of the economy if I'm going to be voting for someone, so I could make sure I'm not making one problem worse while making one better? Sure. So ask me to do that instead. Don't ask me to shelve my values in order to focus on others. Ask me to add these other values to the ones I DO have. You don't endear people to your side by ridiculing or belittling theirs.

EDIT: The "You" in my scenario doesn't actually mean you. It's just the Dems out there that want us to "ease up on the alphabet people talk or else we'll scare the normies away" that I'm talking to.

 

[xi0]

Reminder that the "anti-war" President Trump welcomed this piece of shit as his National Security Advisor

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 13, 2022 ---

Don't watch the new surveillance footage if you still had any respect for cops left

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 13, 2022 ---

Social media is cancelled

They deleted it

 

[xi0]

Oh nyoooooo, daddies are fighting

 

[Sanity Check]

Someone should make a superhero movie where earth's mightiest heroes fail to see past their own differences and ego trips.

Rather than join forces they stab each other in the back as aliens invade the earth.

It would be much more realistic and true to life, than the idea of them setting aside their disputes to do the right thing.

 

[xi0]

What's the right thing in this case? Fighting off the alien invasion? We'd probably be fucked either way, especially if either one of them had a say in anything.

 

[Sanity Check]

These petty squabbles and childish disputes from adults over the age of 50 are pathetic.

With all the problems we have, and difficulties we face, people seriously can't find better things to do than cry over childish silliness?

It would be one thing if it were an isolated and rare event. But it is 100% the norm as far as the right wing goes. Everyone is always stabbing each other in the back and working to undermine one another.

While democrats usually manage to support each other and work together to accomplish shared goals.