American Politics

kkck

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It's overblown. The right (and left sometimes) rely on outliers to infuriate their base. There have been things like Drag Queen readings at schools, and a restaurant hosting a drag event (not a drag show). The right (and especially alt-right) find something that somewhat fits their narrative (for instance, a restaurant hosting a drag event) and talks about it non-stop so it seems like a serious issue. It's the same thing with the bathroom bullshit from years ago. "What if a man goes into the bathroom to prey on women?!"

The reality is that doesn't typically happen.

They want their Christian values forced on everyone (Texas, where I use to live, is currently debating putting the Ten Commandments up in every classroom).
I mean, if it's a few fringe cases then there's not really an issue at all, just call the police to deal with the wackos. That's why my question was whether this was happening or not. Is it some fringe stuff from lunatics that gets overblown by other lunatics... or is this an actual issue? Under what circumstance would it ever be ok for there to be a drag reading at a school? What could possibly be accomplished by that? Drag is by it's nature meant to be sexual, it has no business in any capacity anywhere near any school.
 

catagon87

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I mean, if it's a few fringe cases then there's not really an issue at all, just call the police to deal with the wackos. That's why my question was whether this was happening or not. Is it some fringe stuff from lunatics that gets overblown by other lunatics... or is this an actual issue? Under what circumstance would it ever be ok for there to be a drag reading at a school? What could possibly be accomplished by that? Drag is by it's nature meant to be sexual, it has no business in any capacity anywhere near any school.
How is reading a book in drag sexual?

Kids do not inherently sexualize things.
 

kkck

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How is reading a book in drag sexual?

Kids do not inherently sexualize things.
Same way reading to kids in a gimp suit would be sexual.

Sure, but the kids here aren't the problem.
 

catagon87

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Same way reading to kids in a gimp suit would be sexual.

Sure, but the kids here aren't the problem.
A gimp suit is different than a guy in make-up and a dress. I think over-sexualizing everything is a western thing. In Japan it's not uncommon to bath with strangers, in the nude, of varying ages (small children to elderly). I guess I don't really understand what you think the problem is. Like, do you think the person in drag is a predator? Or are the kids going to be confused? If the latter, then what do you do when you see confusing things with your kids in public? Honestly I'd rather my kids be exposed to things in a safe environment (school) and ask me questions than doing one-on-one tutoring with a youth pastor.
 

kkck

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A gimp suit is different than a guy in make-up and a dress. I think over-sexualizing everything is a western thing. In Japan it's not uncommon to bath with strangers, in the nude, of varying ages (small children to elderly). I guess I don't really understand what you think the problem is. Like, do you think the person in drag is a predator? Or are the kids going to be confused? If the latter, then what do you do when you see confusing things with your kids in public? Honestly I'd rather my kids be exposed to things in a safe environment (school) and ask me questions than doing one-on-one tutoring with a youth pastor.
I don't think nudity itself is a problem, as you mention there's plenty of contexts where it's acceptable (japanese public baths, changing rooms, nude beaches and so on). I obviously don't think every drag person is a predator but if I see one in a classroom I'd call BS, drag is inherently a sexual thing, it cannot be separated from it. It's not like drag is just normal clothes either, it's not exactly acceptable to go most places in drag for the most part. What are kids even supposed to learn from having someone in drag read to them? Would a kid learn anything from having someone in a gimp suit or a stripper read to them? Or whichever other fetish or sex thing? The only one who benefits from said reading is the person in drag, not the kids. In such a situation I'd definitely call the police tbh.
 

catagon87

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I don't think nudity itself is a problem, as you mention there's plenty of contexts where it's acceptable (japanese public baths, changing rooms, nude beaches and so on). I obviously don't think every drag person is a predator but if I see one in a classroom I'd call BS, drag is inherently a sexual thing, it cannot be separated from it. It's not like drag is just normal clothes either, it's not exactly acceptable to go most places in drag for the most part. What are kids even supposed to learn from having someone in drag read to them? Would a kid learn anything from having someone in a gimp suit or a stripper read to them? Or whichever other fetish or sex thing? The only one who benefits from said reading is the person in drag, not the kids. In such a situation I'd definitely call the police tbh.
Drag Queens would fit into LGBTQ+. They aren't necessarily there to learn or teach. It's more to de-stigmatize Drag (and other LGBTQ+ identities). If the kids have a good time then they are benefiting. If they aren't, then these events wouldn't be a thing, as they're usually held at public libraries and need people to participate.

It's also not that uncommon for teachers to be strippers on the side as the pay for teachers is so horrible. So there probably are strippers teaching kids and reading to them.

I think calling the cops is an over reaction. As I mentioned nobody forces anyone to go to these events, and calling the police on someone who isn't doing anything criminal is bad form (and potentially very dangerous in the USA).

Edit: Worth mentioning one of my favorite movies growing up was Mrs. Doubtfire.

Also worth mentioning that people dressing up to entertain isn't exactly new. I mean, look at how successful Tyler Perry is for his Madea character.
 

kkck

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Drag Queens would fit into LGBTQ+. They aren't necessarily there to learn or teach. It's more to de-stigmatize Drag (and other LGBTQ+ identities). If the kids have a good time then they are benefiting. If they aren't, then these events wouldn't be a thing, as they're usually held at public libraries and need people to participate.

It's also not that uncommon for teachers to be strippers on the side as the pay for teachers is so horrible. So there probably are strippers teaching kids and reading to them.

I think calling the cops is an over reaction. As I mentioned nobody forces anyone to go to these events, and calling the police on someone who isn't doing anything criminal is bad form (and potentially very dangerous in the USA).

Edit: Worth mentioning one of my favorite movies growing up was Mrs. Doubtfire.

Also worth mentioning that people dressing up to entertain isn't exactly new. I mean, look at how successful Tyler Perry is for his Madea character.
It doesn't matter if they are lgbtq or anything else, at it's core drag is unquestionably a sex thing. There's zero reasons to cater it to children in any way, shape, form or context. clearly there's a difference between someone who strips on the side to someone who shows up to a school dressed as whichever sex fetish (though on a side note I would argue someone who is actively doing sex work shouldn't be teaching, specially if its teenagers who are certain to eventually find out somehow).

But... we are talking about schools. No one is really given a choice in that case. If it's a public place like a library and it's parents taking their kids there on purpose then the context is different. That's more an issue for child protective services to deal with.

I've never seen a tyler perry movie but at least mrs doubtfire has exactly nothing to do with drag.
 

catagon87

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It doesn't matter if they are lgbtq or anything else, at it's core drag is unquestionably a sex thing. There's zero reasons to cater it to children in any way, shape, form or context. clearly there's a difference between someone who strips on the side to someone who shows up to a school dressed as whichever sex fetish (though on a side note I would argue someone who is actively doing sex work shouldn't be teaching, specially if its teenagers who are certain to eventually find out somehow).

But... we are talking about schools. No one is really given a choice in that case. If it's a public place like a library and it's parents taking their kids there on purpose then the context is different. That's more an issue for child protective services to deal with.

I've never seen a tyler perry movie but at least mrs doubtfire has exactly nothing to do with drag.
Why do you think drag is a sexual thing? Have you ever been to a drag show? They typically don't involve stripping. It's basically project runway with men wearing the attire.

Mrs. Doubtfire isn't a drag show, but there is very little difference here. Hell, the end of the movie is literally a wholesome moment about the main character getting his own TV show as "Mrs. Doubtfire" which is essentially identical to what we're discussing here - entertaining kids while dressed in drag.
 

kkck

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Why do you think drag is a sexual thing? Have you ever been to a drag show? They typically don't involve stripping. It's basically project runway with men wearing the attire.

Mrs. Doubtfire isn't a drag show, but there is very little difference here. Hell, the end of the movie is literally a wholesome moment about the main character getting his own TV show as "Mrs. Doubtfire" which is essentially identical to what we're discussing here - entertaining kids while dressed in drag.
I call bs. Drag shows are and have always been adult entertainment, they are explicitly sexual. Sure, I've never been to a drag show but that's irrelevant. Imagine asking someone how they can know strip clubs are sex things if they have never been to one. Googling stuff is super easy...

Mr doubtfire is in no way, shape or context related to drag.
 

catagon87

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I call bs. Drag shows are and have always been adult entertainment, they are explicitly sexual. Sure, I've never been to a drag show but that's irrelevant. Imagine asking someone how they can know strip clubs are sex things if they have never been to one. Googling stuff is super easy...

Mr doubtfire is in no way, shape or context related to drag.
Maybe try googling it then, because you're wrong about it being explicitly sexual. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_show (first hit on google)

First sentence:
A drag show is a form of entertainment performed by drag artists impersonating men or women, typically in a bar or nightclub. Shows can range from burlesque-style, adult themed nightclub acts to all-ages events with sing-alongs and story times.

Saying drag has always been adult entertainment is like saying cartoons have always been only for kids. Strip clubs are singular purposed and easy to guess what's going on inside. I guarantee you based on what you've posted you could not describe in any accurate detail what goes on at any drag event, because it sounds like you think it's a massive strip-orgy or something, and it's not.
 

kkck

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Maybe try googling it then, because you're wrong about it being explicitly sexual. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_show (first hit on google)

First sentence:



Saying drag has always been adult entertainment is like saying cartoons have always been only for kids. Strip clubs are singular purposed and easy to guess what's going on inside. I guarantee you based on what you've posted you could not describe in any accurate detail what goes on at any drag event, because it sounds like you think it's a massive strip-orgy or something, and it's not.
I call BS.

That was conveniently edited a few months back. Drag stuff has always been hyper sexual, it's straight up gaslightling that this isn't the case.
 

catagon87

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I call BS.

That was conveniently edited a few months back. Drag stuff has always been hyper sexual, it's straight up gaslightling that this isn't the case.
I think you don't understand what gaslighting means. Nobody is gaslighting you, just informing you that you're misinformed on the topic. It doesn't really matter when that was edited. The Drag reading stuff started over 8 years ago. That's just the first hit on google (which you suggested googling).
 

xi0

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But, on what reasonable circumstance could that ever happen? That's nonsense. I mean, are parents sneaking kids into drag shows? Clearly a drag show shouldn't allow kids in just the way a strip club or brother shouldn't allow kids in.
If drag performers have adult content in their shows, then no, kids shouldn't be attending such things. But drag is not inherently adult or sexual really... It's definitely not analogous to a strip club or brothel, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I call BS.

That was conveniently edited a few months back. Drag stuff has always been hyper sexual, it's straight up gaslightling that this isn't the case.
What kind of books do you think a drag performer would be allowed to read to children?
 

M3J

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Same adults whining about sexual content from LGBT+ communities at kids usually have no problem when heterosexual content is being pushed or forced down kids' throats. Even if adult women commit statutory rape against young boys. None of the issues with drag has to do with concern for kids, most of the time the bigots don't even care about kids (anyone who did would not endorse churches or stay silent when there are reports out that churches see the most CSA). They just use kids as agendas to further their bigotry and to get support from other bigots, as I'm sure I said a post or two ago.

There has been no legitimate concern regarding drag and kids, it's all been lies or overblown. And as I said, if they really cared about children, even an iota, they would be taking action against churches and religious authority, not encourage people to go to churches. You even have a celebrity getting away with hiring women to rape his underage son and nephews, but these same people supposedly worried about kids seeing sexual content sure are quiet.
 

kkck

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If drag performers have adult content in their shows, then no, kids shouldn't be attending such things. But drag is not inherently adult or sexual really... It's definitely not analogous to a strip club or brothel, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



What kind of books do you think a drag performer would be allowed to read to children?
I don't think the issue is the books. But a guy in a gimp suit reading three little piggies to kids wouldn't be ok, this is no different.
 

catagon87

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I don't think the issue is the books. But a guy in a gimp suit reading three little piggies to kids wouldn't be ok, this is no different.
That is a straw man argument.

It is vastly different from a gimp suit.. Not going to continue this discussion beyond this, but I will end by saying your base understanding of what drag actually is is completely wrong. Comparing it to extremes like a strip club or gimps has absolutely no basis. I don't get the impression you've ever watched anything drag related, or attended a drag show, and are going off of what you see conveyed on the media (which is essentially a witch hunt). Drag Queens do not have a track record for abusing children (while church officials do). The closest thing a drag show gets to "sexual" is burlesque.

It's like the people who argue video games cause violence. They don't play video games. They don't know much about video games. They are just drawing conclusions based on emotions, and not evidence.
 

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I don't think the issue is the books. But a guy in a gimp suit reading three little piggies to kids wouldn't be ok, this is no different.
Do you actually know what goes on, or are you basing that off right wing sources?
 

xi0

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I don't think the issue is the books. But a guy in a gimp suit reading three little piggies to kids wouldn't be ok, this is no different.
Someone dressed in BSDM fetish gear isn't analogous to drag though, so yeah it is quite different.

Would you have expected Ronald Reagan to appear publicly in a gimp suit? No? Well he has done drag before. That alone should enlighten someone who thinks they're the same thing lol
 

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I don't think the issue is the books. But a guy in a gimp suit reading three little piggies to kids wouldn't be ok, this is no different.
Are you saying that a man dressed as a woman is identical to a man dressed in a gimp suit: a suit intended for titillation?

Is the image of a woman automatically titillating? Do you think a biological man with gender dysphoria dressing as a woman is done with the express intent of titillation?

kckk said:
That was conveniently edited a few months back. Drag stuff has always been hyper sexual, it's straight up gaslightling that this isn't the case.
Citation needed lmfao.

Don't get me wrong: drag can certainly be sexual. But you won't find any sources that say drag in essence is inherently sexual, or even that it started that way. Even if you wanted to try to claim that the majority of it's sexual, you'd be wrong there too.

I'm pretty sure I know what's happening here. The same thing happens almost everywhere: until recently we've only been seeing certain instances of drag in the public eye.

1: Republicans pointing out the actual bad instances of children being at sexually suggestive drag shows
2: Drag shown in it's most famous showings in older movies and tv shows via an unfavorable light, most often as some sort of perverse kink if not a legitimate sign of mental illness or dangerous behavior (Ya'll remember Silence of the Lambs right? What about Psycho?)

...and that's enough for people to write off drag/cross-dressing altogether as inherently sexual... when that's not even 1 percent of drag culture.
 
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xi0

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Is the image of a woman automatically titillating? Do you think a biological man with gender dysphoria dressing as a woman is done with the express intent of titillation?
It might be nitpicking or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but gender dysphoria isn't necessarily a factor when it comes to drag performers. Drag is a performance like most others - it's someone playing a character, wearing a costume, etc.
 
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