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ninjabot

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Choosing not to differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians is intellectually lazy. Even if the majority of Palestinians supported Hamas or something Hamas-adjacent, Israel would still be doing something unjustifiable.
Not when you've taken the time to do so for months and it didn't matter to the people you were talking to about it. I argue in good faith until my interlocutor stops doing the same. I've demonstrated I can conversate without being intellectually lazy. It didn't help, so I feel no qualms about phoning it in now. Nothing of value was gained by me doing the work, so nothing of value was lost by giving up on it.

Fuck a sunk cost fallacy.

Ultimately I think "both sides"-ing this topic is dishonest and ignores the power structures that exist for the sake of not "taking a side". There is no "both-sides"-ing 12,000 children being killed. Collective punishment is collective punishment. But I feel like I've tried to make this point before and it doesn't go anywhere so I digress.
And I think dismissing the acknowledgment of Palestine's evils as "both sides-ing" is dishonest.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that me saying "I did a 180 on being pro-Palestine" was me not having a side? Just because I'm not pro-Israel, doesn't mean I don't have a side.

I am anti-current Palestine.
 

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That's not why you're calling me out. It's because you want me to go post-for-post with you with links to the evils of Hamas so you can dismiss them as propaganda, and I won't do it because I've lost faith in your ability to be objective.
No, I'm returning your energy. I've seen your "evidence," and you have none other than videos and whatnot from years and decades ago. No point in asking because I know you have none. If Hamas is evil, then what does that make Israel, who basically created Hamas? And if Hamas is evil, why are they willing to give back hostages, but are shut down by Israel every time?

Why would I trust a source that show obvious bias? Do you not think it fishy if a source like CNN says Palestinian minors were found dead, even when they were kids who were murdered by IOF? I mean, if a right wing account shared pro-Palestine content, I wouldn't trust it either as they usually do it for their own gain or are anti-Semitic, and right wingers tend to lie.

You further proved you have absolutely no knowledge of what's going on in Israel and its genocide of the Palestinians. Palestinians and even Israeli hostages support Hamas because Hamas actually cares about its own people and have taken care of its hostages. Israel continues to indiscriminately bomb and not even care if its own people get murdered, and the families of the hostages have been pissed off at Israel and Netanyahu. I wasn't pro-Hamas until I actually read what was going on from different sources, and it was clear that Israel and their supporters are scapegoating Hamas to keep fooling people like you into supporting their genocide.

You can claim to be moral all you want, condemn Hamas for being terrorist all you want, but you are completely ignorant, and that's a fact. Israel has made it so clear and obvious that they're the bad guys and have power, which is why they've lost a lot of support, and why Palestine has seen so much support. People realized Israel is the real terrorist.



Also, this is what Biden is supporting, and what our tax money is going towards
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Code:
https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1756856867681132645
--- Double Post Merged, ---

 

kkck

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Gaffes and awkwardness are bit different from whatever Biden is dealing with though. She's far less accomplished than Biden is but in any case she wouldn't be and isn't afforded the same kind of grace he's received and it's clear why. If people are confident in Biden's administration to do the heavy lifting then it's not unreasonable to think they same way with Harris. I'm not sure who he could pick as a running mate that would improve his reelection chances.

My point wasn't that Hogan had a great shot to beat Trump, my point was that he has marketed himself as anti-Trump and running that way despite him running for Senate instead of President. It's cowardly and ultimately dishonest because on the off chance he wins, he's not going to be some sort of GOP obstructionist towards Trump's legislative agenda in any form or fashion. If someone earnestly buys that notion then they're a moron.
Hmmm, I feel like the criticism harris gets does not have that much to do with either her sex or skin color. Even presumably favorable media outlets don't have that many nice things to say about her. It'd be one thing if right wing media were tearing her apart non stop (which I assume they are) and the rest was swooning over her but it doesn't seem like anyone really likes or cares for her.

Ah, ok, I think I get what you mean now. Yeah, i don't think anyone buys that but at the same time no one cares either. Most republicans who dislike trump as far as I can tell do so either because working under trump is a specially shit job or because trump is a corrupt clown who wants to suck up to shitty dictators. On the legislative angle it's pretty clear republican politicians and voters are very much on board with trump. It's not like trump ever had that much to do with what actually went into bills other than the buzzwords.
 

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No, I'm returning your energy.
No you're really not. You're pursuing interaction with me to the point of calling me out by name. If you were matching my energy we'd never speak to each other because I am never, ever pursuing your opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

As for the assertion that I'm claiming to be more moral than anyone, I was joking about the Darfur and Uyghurs. I don't think I'm any more moral than you. I don't however, think you actually care about Palestinians. Outside of the amount of social credit you can get from pretending you do.

BUT! If I wanted to make the argument that I was morally superior to you, I would bring attention to the fact that literally only ONE person in this thread has called for the downfall of a nation/violence:

M3J said:
I hope we see Israel's downfall, and every single Zionist punished one way or another, while Palestinians, including Hamas, finally get peace and stability in Palestine. It's sad the way the west is letting a genocide happen.
I called for a 2 state solution. Israelis and Palestinians peacefully co-existing.

You called for the destruction of Israel and wished for the prosperity of a terrorist organization.
 
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kkck

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So this thing with biden not being able to articulate sentences is a daily thing right?welp, not daily but at least it seems to happen about as often as biden speaks publicly.... I don't see how anyone can defend him at this point. If anything you'd think article 25 should be a daily discussion at this point. They just can't have someone who can't properly articulate sentences there...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Yeah, this elections are going to be fun.
 

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I don't see how anyone can defend him at this point.
I don't hear many people defending him often anyway. He's the "Not Trump Pick". You don't have to be the smartest, most moral, or most lucid person in the world to meet that prerequisite.
 

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I don't hear many people defending him often anyway. He's the "Not Trump Pick". You don't have to be the smartest, most moral, or most lucid person in the world to meet that prerequisite.
I was already accounting for that in my post. Yes, he is the "not trump pick".And sure, for a non marginal part of the electorate odds are that a potato is preferable to trump. But there's also a decent number of undecided voters who will actually wage both options as valid. The electorade in general is questioning his fitness for office and folk in the party are clearly making great efforts to reassure folk that biden is fine. To little to no success. I am not confident that given the choice between trump and a potato democrats will rally behind the potato enough to win. Meanwhile republicans seem more than motivated to not have a potato president.
 

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I was already accounting for that in my post. Yes, he is the "not trump pick".And sure, for a non marginal part of the electorate odds are that a potato is preferable to trump. But there's also a decent number of undecided voters who will actually wage both options as valid. The electorade in general is questioning his fitness for office and folk in the party are clearly making great efforts to reassure folk that biden is fine. To little to no success. I am not confident that given the choice between trump and a potato democrats will rally behind the potato enough to win. Meanwhile republicans seem more than motivated to not have a potato president.
Really? If by Republicans you mean civilians, sure. Not the ones we see on the news often, whether pundits on conservative news media or actual members of the party voting on stuff. Hell the entire turning down of the bipartisan bill.

And I disagree about democrats not voting for Biden. I know there are those that won't, but it's typically a "type" of democrat willing to throw away the presidency that is willing to do shit like that. And that's not the vast majority of the nation.
Vladimir Putin endorses Joe Biden for US President in 2024.
I'm sure there's an ulterior motive, but the other things he said were all true. After all, Biden has done nothing in the past years that Putin would be happy with. Trump would've been a much better useful idiot for Putin (look at what he said about not helping Ukraine).



EDIT: Ah, this is the original statement: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html


Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don’t pay.”



“No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”
 

kkck

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Really? If by Republicans you mean civilians, sure. Not the ones we see on the news often, whether pundits on conservative news media or actual members of the party voting on stuff. Hell the entire turning down of the bipartisan bill.

And I disagree about democrats not voting for Biden. I know there are those that won't, but it's typically a "type" of democrat willing to throw away the presidency that is willing to do shit like that. And that's not the vast majority of the nation.
On the democrat side I think it's an issue of whether they should up to vote or not. Sure, IF they vote they won't vote trump but it doesn't matter if they don't show up. Trump was voted out of office IIRC with over 70% turnout...

On the republican side I would see this more as... "FUCK YEAH, LET'S VOTE THE POTATO OUT OF OFFICE! Who is also a satanic cabalistic child sniffing immigrant importing pedophile!",

Trump gives republicans more to work with than biden does at least.

Not sure of what you mean about the bipartisan bill.
 

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My bad. Jumped ahead to another point before finishing that one because I was distracted by Helldivers 2.

Anyway, I meant the turning down of the bill was so that it could still be used as a wedge issue for Trump to run on. You could say they were reserving it for just ANY old Republican candidate but he is THE candidate. Not to mention he ran on the wall. It's heavily viewed as his baby.
 

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My bad. Jumped ahead to another point before finishing that one because I was distracted by Helldivers 2.

Anyway, I meant the turning down of the bill was so that it could still be used as a wedge issue for Trump to run on. You could say they were reserving it for just ANY old Republican candidate but he is THE candidate. Not to mention he ran on the wall. It's heavily viewed as his baby.
Ah, that's a fair assessment. Though I don't think it's that unlikely the bill was also not popular among republican voters. Trump was also againts the bill and the reality is that republican voters listen to him. Overall I don't think republicans had that much incentive to support it from an electoral standpoint.
 

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Hm... It's hard to tell, cause the only Republicans that were against the bill seem to be the most dishonest ones. Which is the majority lol, but believe it or not, there are conservatives out there that are more honest and like the idea of bipartisanship and giving a little to get a little. I'm confident Trump was against it for the reason I mentioned: he can't scream over and over "I built the wall, I'm the only one that can protect you from the Mexicans" if the Dems play ball and put forth the bill, and Republicans accept it.

Also the Republicans that were for the bill would be decried as RINOs so potentially, there were more Republicans in favor of it but simply couldn't admit it so I dunno. I haven't looked up any stats. I could be overestimating Republicans.
 

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Hm... It's hard to tell, cause the only Republicans that were against the bill seem to be the most dishonest ones. Which is the majority lol, but believe it or not, there are conservatives out there that are more honest and like the idea of bipartisanship and giving a little to get a little. I'm confident Trump was against it for the reason I mentioned: he can't scream over and over "I built the wall, I'm the only one that can protect you from the Mexicans" if the Dems play ball and put forth the bill, and Republicans accept it.

Also the Republicans that were for the bill would be decried as RINOs so potentially, there were more Republicans in favor of it but simply couldn't admit it so I dunno. I haven't looked up any stats. I could be overestimating Republicans.
But... the electorade? To me it felt like the republican voters wanted more of a hardline stance against folk entering the country and attaining legal status. Texas politicians as far as I could tell took it as an attack and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the electorate there felt similarly.
 

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But... the electorade? To me it felt like the republican voters wanted more of a hardline stance against folk entering the country and attaining legal status. Texas politicians as far as I could tell took it as an attack and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the electorate there felt similarly.
Sure, they all want more. But this was a step in the right direction considering it was much better than they would've expected Dems to budge on normally, especially in the heavily partisan political environment nowadays.

Also Texas is a bit of a different situation compared to a lot of other Red states, right?
 

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Sure, they all want more. But this was a step in the right direction considering it was much better than they would've expected Dems to budge on normally, especially in the heavily partisan political environment nowadays.

Also Texas is a bit of a different situation compared to a lot of other Red states, right?
I'm not really sure of who the bill was for tbh. To me it seemed like republican voters wouldn't be on board with it and it didn't take much from trump to indeed move them away. On the hispanic side to which democrats usually try to cater these stuff to the stuff democrats put out isn't nearly as popular as democrats would hope (i've made the point that democrats don't get hispanic voters before). Democrat voters I suppose would see the bill favorably but you'd think it's dead on arrival if it doesn't have stuff republican or hispanic voters would support. IIRC there were a few reports a couple weeks back about trump leading biden with hispanic voters.... Hard to think it's not relevant to this issue.

hmmm, is it? I am somewhat familiar with how texas view themselves though I don't get the impression that policy wise they differ significantly from other republicans. Or do you refer to them sharing a border with mexico?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Welp, since I am catching up on jon stuart stuff...
 

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I'm not really sure of who the bill was for tbh. To me it seemed like republican voters wouldn't be on board with it and it didn't take much from trump to indeed move them away. On the hispanic side to which democrats usually try to cater these stuff to the stuff democrats put out isn't nearly as popular as democrats would hope (i've made the point that democrats don't get hispanic voters before). Democrat voters I suppose would see the bill favorably but you'd think it's dead on arrival if it doesn't have stuff republican or hispanic voters would support. IIRC there were a few reports a couple weeks back about trump leading biden with hispanic voters.... Hard to think it's not relevant to this issue.
Maybe it's just because I get my news from Democrat biased sources and they kept playing up how huge of a get it was for Republicans. As for who it was for? Republicans that need an optics win, and Biden who is dead set on trying to appeal to moderates by giving them a "little of column A, little column B" type stunt to convince them he's not too woke for them to vote for (IMHO).

hmmm, is it? I am somewhat familiar with how texas view themselves though I don't get the impression that policy wise they differ significantly from other republicans. Or do you refer to them sharing a border with mexico?
I did mean the border, yeah.
 

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Maybe it's just because I get my news from Democrat biased sources and they kept playing up how huge of a get it was for Republicans. As for who it was for? Republicans that need an optics win, and Biden who is dead set on trying to appeal to moderates by giving them a "little of column A, little column B" type stunt to convince them he's not too woke for them to vote for (IMHO).



I did mean the border, yeah.
My impression on the political angle from the bill was that republicans got more out of it failing than they would have from it going through at least. With the issues in texas and all the times the NYC mayor has complained about NYC services being overburdened by immigrants it didn't seem to me that the bill would be a win with republican bases.

As for how the whole thing looks to me.... the democrat's response is baffling to me. As in, you have a US state asking for help with immigrants entering the country.. and the response is... more paths for citizenships? Context on my view here: Post pandemic venezuela had literally millions of people leave the country an immigrate to other countries in south and central america. And also obviously the US. A couple years of that later the collective of shithole countries that make up south and central america had had it. Regularization was attempted but at least as far as I know the benefits given at the time quickly ran out and countries didn't bother extending it said benefits. There's been way too many cities in the region where towns or cities pretty much grab the pitchforks to kick venezuelans out. Government and populace tolerance is essentially at a bare minimum. On the government angle you don't have overt displays of cruelty of course but it's still largely a shit situation. A substantial chunk of the populace would vote for overt cruelty to kick them out with a smile though.

So looking at new paths for regularization on the democrat side... why? Even setting aside the asylum issue (which definitely 99% of the people at the border do not qualify for, poverty simply isn't grounds for asylum) no country is ran like that. Countries south of the US border definitely don't what democrats are doing there. A large chunk of the population in my side of the world would be furious if they did. And this sort of shit also does in fact encourage immigration of this type to the US. South of the border its all varying degrees of shithole narco countries but people still have access to the internet, they 100% do pay attention if democrats say they are giving paths to citizenship to illegal immigrants. Last year it became popular in my local news to report on people from my country crossing el darien... At least a few of those had people talking about how democrats were going to let them into the US (the reports themselves were largely about how comically dangerous the crossing was rather than democrats of course).
 

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No you're really not. You're pursuing interaction with me to the point of calling me out by name. If you were matching my energy we'd never speak to each other because I am never, ever pursuing your opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

As for the assertion that I'm claiming to be more moral than anyone, I was joking about the Darfur and Uyghurs. I don't think I'm any more moral than you. I don't however, think you actually care about Palestinians. Outside of the amount of social credit you can get from pretending you do.

BUT! If I wanted to make the argument that I was morally superior to you, I would bring attention to the fact that literally only ONE person in this thread has called for the downfall of a nation/violence:



I called for a 2 state solution. Israelis and Palestinians peacefully co-existing.

You called for the destruction of Israel and wished for the prosperity of a terrorist organization.
Yes I really was. But don't worry, I won't waste my time talking to you about the genocide since you don't have anything but videos and articles from years and decades ago while even countries have condemned Israel and tried to get a ceasefire going.

If I didn't care about Palestinians though, why would I keep posting stuff about them knowing I could get in trouble for doing so? People who have spoke up for Palestine, even saying ceasefire, have gotten fired, lost their scholarships, and doxxed, especially Muslims, while Israelis and Israel supporters have openly called for murder without repercussion. Unlike you, I actually care about lives, not what affects me.


Again, if you knew the history between Palestine and Israel, you'd know why that's not possible, and that back when it was possible, Zionists decided to go for ethnic cleansing instead. Bella Hadid's dad shared what happened when his family took in a Jewish family.

Israel is the terrorist organization, not Hamas. Even Israel has said that Hamas was created in response to Israel's violence and theft of Palestinian lands, and they actually want Hamas to exist because Hamas is a perfect scapegoat, as you are currently proving.

So this thing with biden not being able to articulate sentences is a daily thing right?welp, not daily but at least it seems to happen about as often as biden speaks publicly.... I don't see how anyone can defend him at this point. If anything you'd think article 25 should be a daily discussion at this point. They just can't have someone who can't properly articulate sentences there...
Only anti-Trumpers/idiotic "Blue no matter who" people are trying to defend him. Most people with common sense want Biden and Harris replaced, and for some dumb reason Dems are refusing to do that even after being warned that victims of Biden's assistance in genocide will refuse to vote for him. I don't think his ability to be articulate will matter because he is the perfect representative for Dems, along with Pelosi and Clinton, so they'll try to keep him for another term.




Unrelated to kick's post:

I think for Biden to have a clear chance, Trump would have to say something incredibly dumb or dangerous that'd motivate people to vote for Biden. Talking about defending Roe v Wade isn't going to help him as much anymore when Dems have had the ability to do so for decades but haven't done it, and many states took away women's rights under Biden anyway. This election year is going to suck because we have two candidates that are incompetent and unfit to run for office, but one is obviously the worse choice while the other's inability to deliver on his promises and continue funding genocide is making it nearly impossible to support him morally.
 

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Yes I really was. But don't worry, I won't waste my time talking to you about the genocide since you don't have anything but videos and articles from years and decades ago while even countries have condemned Israel and tried to get a ceasefire going.

If I didn't care about Palestinians though, why would I keep posting stuff about them knowing I could get in trouble for doing so? People who have spoke up for Palestine, even saying ceasefire, have gotten fired, lost their scholarships, and doxxed, especially Muslims, while Israelis and Israel supporters have openly called for murder without repercussion. Unlike you, I actually care about lives, not what affects me.


Again, if you knew the history between Palestine and Israel, you'd know why that's not possible, and that back when it was possible, Zionists decided to go for ethnic cleansing instead. Bella Hadid's dad shared what happened when his family took in a Jewish family.

Israel is the terrorist organization, not Hamas. Even Israel has said that Hamas was created in response to Israel's violence and theft of Palestinian lands, and they actually want Hamas to exist because Hamas is a perfect scapegoat, as you are currently proving.



Only anti-Trumpers/idiotic "Blue no matter who" people are trying to defend him. Most people with common sense want Biden and Harris replaced, and for some dumb reason Dems are refusing to do that even after being warned that victims of Biden's assistance in genocide will refuse to vote for him. I don't think his ability to be articulate will matter because he is the perfect representative for Dems, along with Pelosi and Clinton, so they'll try to keep him for another term.




Unrelated to kick's post:

I think for Biden to have a clear chance, Trump would have to say something incredibly dumb or dangerous that'd motivate people to vote for Biden. Talking about defending Roe v Wade isn't going to help him as much anymore when Dems have had the ability to do so for decades but haven't done it, and many states took away women's rights under Biden anyway. This election year is going to suck because we have two candidates that are incompetent and unfit to run for office, but one is obviously the worse choice while the other's inability to deliver on his promises and continue funding genocide is making it nearly impossible to support him morally.
If the election is between Biden and trump then the choice is basically between an israel supporter and an even more committed israel supporter. I don't see anyone giving a shit about this coming November.
 
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