Democrats aren't doing that in any broad way. In fact, plenty of those that are considered liberal thought leaders are basically laundering Kirk's reputation for some unknown reason.
And if you're indifferent about the entire thing you're basically doing thoughtcrime according to the Trump administration.
Just imagine that - indifference towards a far-right christian nationalist getting taken out because the whole "good guy with a gun" idea they like to masturbate over isn't effective policy. Never mind the sort of contribution this guy made to making many different groups of people less safe in this country.
It's not enough to simply say people probably shouldn't be murdered over their opinions, you have to lie about who and what Charlie Kirk was, otherwise there might be consequences from the government. What an embarrassment.
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I wonder what's more consequential - public health being turned into just another scam, or people not grieving a whackjob podcaster in a government-approved way? Hmm
How it looks to me is that enough people got in on the death to kirk circlejerk than some folk on the left saw the need to do speak out against this just so that their side at least appears human. Kirk was part of the right wing grift machine but that doesn't mean his murder should be treated as anything other than a murder. You'd think that'd be a baseline of civility. Instead what you have is his murder and the shameful reaction to it from a lot of folk simply feeding trump even more power.
Democrats: FUCK YEAH CHARLIE KIRK GOT MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD WHILE HIS FAMILY WATCHED! HE DESERVED THAT! EVEN HIS FAMILY DESERVED THAT! Also there's zero doubt this was a hit ordered by the CIA/Israel!
Republicans: ALL LEFTISTS ARE PEDOPHILES AND ARE OUT TO MURDER US.
Most of the Democrats aren't openly happy about Charlie being murdered, they just acknowledged what led to his murder and many won't show him empathy due to his bigotry, but they've shown his family empathy. They've done more for Charlie than republicans ever did for Melissa Hortman and her spouse, who were killed, or for John Hoffman, his spouse, and Paul Pelosi, who were attacked, all by right wingers.
Republicans are also blaming transgender people and encouraging violence against them too.
How it looks to me is that enough people got in on the death to kirk circlejerk than some folk on the left saw the need to do speak out against this just so that their side at least appears human. Kirk was part of the right wing grift machine but that doesn't mean his murder should be treated as anything other than a murder. You'd think that'd be a baseline of civility. Instead what you have is his murder and the shameful reaction to it from a lot of folk simply feeding trump even more power.
The lack of empathy for his murder has nothing to do with him being a right wing grift machine, it has everything to do with him being a hateful, lying bigot. Have you listened to anything he's ever said? When he's done nothing but sow hatred and bigotry, you're not going to get empathy from the targets of your bullshit. If he wanted people to empathize with him, he should have been kind, not be a misogynistic white supremacist.
How it looks to me is that enough people got in on the death to kirk circlejerk than some folk on the left saw the need to do speak out against this just so that their side at least appears human. Kirk was part of the right wing grift machine but that doesn't mean his murder should be treated as anything other than a murder. You'd think that'd be a baseline of civility. Instead what you have is his murder and the shameful reaction to it from a lot of folk simply feeding trump even more power.
Idk, I think much of what Kirk said and what he advocated for sort of removed a lot of what average people call humanity from the equation in the first place. I didn't really notice an abundance of public figures on the left celebrating his assassination at all, the majority condemned it. For whatever that is worth, if the shoe was on the other foot the situation would not be mirrored. Nor would a leftwing podcaster be honored before a Yankees game, flags ordered to be at half-staff, national days of remembrance being talked about, etc etc etc.
The civility you speak of would not exist, instead excuses would be made saying they deserved it, probably because they were "terrorists" or "pedophiles". We already know what kind of excuses are made in lieu of civility. They joked about Melissa Hortman and her family after they were killed, they joked about Paul Pelosi being attacked. Personally, anyone on the right crying about civility should probably see to getting their diapers changed.
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Oh, right, I guess being anti-fascist is illegal now too
Let's be clear: Charlie Kirk did not advocate for civility, nor does the republican mainstream.
The Democrat Mainstream does. From the moderate dems to Bernie Sanders, AOC, Ilhan and so on, you will not find any of them that mock Kirk. But even the people who refuse to lie about him being a right extremist racist are labelled as radical now, for speaking the truth.
But Charlie Kirk was not a good person and he was definitely not someone who was interested in honest debate. Nobody should lie about that.
Making a "both sides of the discourse is rotten" kinda argument out of this is just untrue.
Philando Castile, George Floyd, and so many other Black men and women killed by cops were fathers or mothers as well, but why don't they get sympathy while Charlie does? Philando's s/o and daughter saw him killed before their own eyes too.
The hypocrisy and double standards from the right have been astounding. They will get mad at others for not kissing Charlie's ass, but they had no problem laughing and making jokes about Black men being killed by cops or Democrat politicians being attacked. THey also went from saying political violence shouldn't be tolerated to demanding violence against the left and liberals before they even knew who the shooter could have been.
Nothing I have said about Kirk is actually apologetical of him. And sure, democrat politicians did give their condolences about the guy but my comment wasn't about them but rather about just way too many people on that side of the aisle. And sure, the right wing has celebrated this sort of thing when it happens to their enemies.
I like how the NY Post seems to think this is something of a litmus test of being leftist. As though Grindr doesn't see massively increased traffic at any Republican conventions.
The only thing that will be even remotely trustworthy will be discovery in the inevitable trial. Stuff like text messages are incredibly hard to fake. Discord/whoever will have records with metadata on them. Assuming they don't off or let him off himself, I am confident we will get a trial since they are talking about the Death Penalty (like, what does he have to lose?)
Democrats: FUCK YEAH CHARLIE KIRK GOT MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD WHILE HIS FAMILY WATCHED! HE DESERVED THAT! EVEN HIS FAMILY DESERVED THAT! Also there's zero doubt this was a hit ordered by the CIA/Israel!
Republicans: ALL LEFTISTS ARE PEDOPHILES AND ARE OUT TO MURDER US.
This was not my experience with this. One of the issues is the loudest voices of the right seem to not understand nuance. Just look at the discourse of Jimmy Kimmel's "firing" in r/conservative. It's a lot of "his ratings sucked so he was fired" and less focus on the fact that Carr basically threatened the parent companies.
There were some speaking out about Kirk in the way you describe, but it was a very small minority. The most common thing I saw that might be interpreted as disrespectful was those quoting Kirk himself about the sacrifices necessary for the Second Amendment. There's also been a lot of strange expectations from the right that a lack of mourning for an individual is equivalent to spitting on their grave.
Meanwhile Fox News can say "kill the homeless" and it's no problem. Anyone who doesn't see what's going on at a greater scale here (the current administration using Kirk's death as a way to seize various powers) has their head in the sand. Even Ted Cruz seemed disappointed in the decision of the FCC to pressure a private corporation to axe a dissenting pundit/satirist. This stuff is straight out of the Dictator's Handbook. It's an actual book that pre-dates Trump's administration, and they are following it to a T.
I use to be right leaning. I was probably 18-25 or so during this time. I have major right-leaning influences within my family.
I can tell you now that if Obama had "joked" about a third term, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If Obama had sent the National Guard to cities to "clean them up," they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If Obama's FCC had threatened the Fox Corporation to pull Hannity / Beck / whoever, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If the Democrats had nominated a convicted felon, they would have lost their fucking minds (they have this notion that all Democrats are just non-convicted criminals).
If Obama had been on TV saying half the shit Trump had said about women, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
Republicans, in general, never have any idea what the fuck they are talking about. I know because I use to be one. I use to be right-leaning, and have changed over time to be more left-leaning. My assumptions before actually educating myself were that Democrats (and at the time, Obama was their leader) wanted to take my guns, overrun the country with illegal immigrants, borrow us into poverty, and make us appear weak to the world.
In reality, we captured Osama Bin Ladin under Obama. We came out of one of the worst recessions in US history. Obama actually expanded gun rights by allowing them to be carried on Federal Land. His administration was strict on immigration and deportations were up under him. He was the Drone Strike guy.
When I was a Republican I'd tell you how horrible central banks were but I couldn't tell you why. I just parroted what I was told. In reality their existence delineates the obvious conflicts of interest and prevents us from becoming Zimbabwe 2.0.
When I was a Republican I'd tell you how horrible our national debt was without understanding that the vast majority of it was inter-departmental, and without even understanding the bond's role in our outstanding debts.
When I was a Republican I had a general lack of empathy toward others. I didn't understand that some are just born into near-impossible to escape situations. I'd of agreed with Kirk on the second amendment.
When I was a Republican, I'd tell you how horrible a deficit was but I couldn't explain to you what a deficit was.
When I was a Republican, I loved what-aboutism and straw men. Anecdotes were strong evidence and studies were always "cherry-picked" and worth ignoring.
My family would explain to me why universal healthcare would be the death knell of our country, but they never seemed to have a problem with our military spending.
In a sense, I can relate to both sides because I've been on both sides. That said, my relationship with the right is more of a reminder of the more ignorant points in my life where I lacked empathy and was more ego-centric (aka, immature). I'm just glad I was never stupid enough to vote for Donald Trump.
This was not my experience with this. One of the issues is the loudest voices of the right seem to not understand nuance. Just look at the discourse of Jimmy Kimmel's "firing" in r/conservative. It's a lot of "his ratings sucked so he was fired" and less focus on the fact that Carr basically threatened the parent companies.
There were some speaking out about Kirk in the way you describe, but it was a very small minority. The most common thing I saw that might be interpreted as disrespectful was those quoting Kirk himself about the sacrifices necessary for the Second Amendment. There's also been a lot of strange expectations from the right that a lack of mourning for an individual is equivalent to spitting on their grave.
Meanwhile Fox News can say "kill the homeless" and it's no problem. Anyone who doesn't see what's going on at a greater scale here (the current administration using Kirk's death as a way to seize various powers) has their head in the sand. Even Ted Cruz seemed disappointed in the decision of the FCC to pressure a private corporation to axe a dissenting pundit/satirist. This stuff is straight out of the Dictator's Handbook. It's an actual book that pre-dates Trump's administration, and they are following it to a T.
I use to be right leaning. I was probably 18-25 or so during this time. I have major right-leaning influences within my family.
I can tell you now that if Obama had "joked" about a third term, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If Obama had sent the National Guard to cities to "clean them up," they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If Obama's FCC had threatened the Fox Corporation to pull Hannity / Beck / whoever, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
If the Democrats had nominated a convicted felon, they would have lost their fucking minds (they have this notion that all Democrats are just non-convicted criminals).
If Obama had been on TV saying half the shit Trump had said about women, they would have collectively lost their fucking minds.
Republicans, in general, never have any idea what the fuck they are talking about. I know because I use to be one. I use to be right-leaning, and have changed over time to be more left-leaning. My assumptions before actually educating myself were that Democrats (and at the time, Obama was their leader) wanted to take my guns, overrun the country with illegal immigrants, borrow us into poverty, and make us appear weak to the world.
In reality, we captured Osama Bin Ladin under Obama. We came out of one of the worst recessions in US history. Obama actually expanded gun rights by allowing them to be carried on Federal Land. His administration was strict on immigration and deportations were up under him. He was the Drone Strike guy.
When I was a Republican I'd tell you how horrible central banks were but I couldn't tell you why. I just parroted what I was told. In reality their existence delineates the obvious conflicts of interest and prevents us from becoming Zimbabwe 2.0.
When I was a Republican I'd tell you how horrible our national debt was without understanding that the vast majority of it was inter-departmental, and without even understanding the bond's role in our outstanding debts.
When I was a Republican I had a general lack of empathy toward others. I didn't understand that some are just born into near-impossible to escape situations. I'd of agreed with Kirk on the second amendment.
When I was a Republican, I'd tell you how horrible a deficit was but I couldn't explain to you what a deficit was.
When I was a Republican, I loved what-aboutism and straw men. Anecdotes were strong evidence and studies were always "cherry-picked" and worth ignoring.
My family would explain to me why universal healthcare would be the death knell of our country, but they never seemed to have a problem with our military spending.
In a sense, I can relate to both sides because I've been on both sides. That said, my relationship with the right is more of a reminder of the more ignorant points in my life where I lacked empathy and was more ego-centric (aka, immature). I'm just glad I was never stupid enough to vote for Donald Trump.
I am not sure of what part of that post somehow reads as a defense or apology for republicans. As far as I am concerned republicans are a bunch of nutjobs with their heads so far down the conspiracy rabbit hole it's impossible a conversation with one does not eventually devolve into some variation of trump being 10x times better than jesus while all democrats have galons of raped children blood in their satanic fridges. I have zero expectations of republicans. My attacks on democrats are not because I support republicans but rather because I find their inability to have anything resembling a coherent agenda or messaging infuriating and there's zero hope of sanity from republicans in the foreseeable future.
I don't think my overall political views have changed particularly much in the past decade. I have changed my mind on very specific things but that mostly pertains to policy and changes in my own country. Overall I would still think I am right of center on the political spectrum.
On the monetary policy bit, I don't think the average democrat understands how much of a lifeline the USD is to them either. Sure, their entire worldview and understanding of the issue isn't summarized by this precise meme but you don't exactly see democrat voters going "You know what, protecting the value of the USD is important and it's very beneficial for us that other countries use it as a reserve and to trade with each other and maybe in some cases the fed limiting the money supply to control inflation can be offset by the government getting even more expensive debt".
I am not sure of what part of that post somehow reads as a defense or apology for republicans. As far as I am concerned republicans are a bunch of nutjobs with their heads so far down the conspiracy rabbit hole it's impossible a conversation with one does not eventually devolve into some variation of trump being 10x times better than jesus while all democrats have galons of raped children blood in their satanic fridges. I have zero expectations of republicans. My attacks on democrats are not because I support republicans but rather because I find their inability to have anything resembling a coherent agenda or messaging infuriating and there's zero hope of sanity from republicans in the foreseeable future.
I don't think my overall political views have changed particularly much in the past decade. I have changed my mind on very specific things but that mostly pertains to policy and changes in my own country. Overall I would still think I am right of center on the political spectrum.
On the monetary policy bit, I don't think the average democrat understands how much of a lifeline the USD is to them either. Sure, their entire worldview and understanding of the issue isn't summarized by this precise meme but you don't exactly see democrat voters going "You know what, protecting the value of the USD is important and it's very beneficial for us that other countries use it as a reserve and to trade with each other and maybe in some cases the fed limiting the money supply to control inflation can be offset by the government getting even more expensive debt".
I'm not really trying to assert you are defending one side or the other, but pointing out that there is some truth to what one side says over the other. A few people were 'celebrating' Kirk's death, but TB100%H I saw a lot more of "gun violence should never be celebrated, but Kirk did mention that there would be sacrifices to protect our second amendment." Republicans make a lot of claims about stuff. They just claimed Tylenol while pregnant causes autism and are aiming to undo proven, working vaccine schedules (can't have autism if measles kills you, I guess). Their voters eat most of this stuff up and are much more likely to trust a Facebook meme over a rigorous scientific study.
The level at which the right wants Kirk to be both celebrated and mourned has touched onto a creepy level. The left doesn't really have pundits like the right does; Republicans have Hannity, Glenn Beck, Tucker Carlson, Meghan Kelly, etc.. They had Limbaugh, too. The left has.. arguably Jon Stewart? John Oliver? The Republican pundits aren't really comedians so it's hard to find a comparison that works. The closest example to a reciprocal version of what's happening I can think of is: imagine John Oliver dies while a Democrat is in office. The Federal Government is ordered to fly flags at half mast, and anyone who mentions any criticism of Oliver gets 'cancelled.' It sounds bizarre because it would never happen.
Your average person isn't going to understand monetary policy, but they also don't need to. Few presidents have attempted to strong arm the Fed into lowering rates (which will risk hyperinflation), and none have done so at the level that Trump is doing with Powell. I mean, Trump tried to claim Biden appointed Powell when it was... Trump, himself, who did. The power of the dollar goes beyond just simple monetary policy, and a lot of it is backed by a strong military.
I'd say that Democrats let identity politics take over too much. That's their biggest failing.
Nothing I have said about Kirk is actually apologetical of him. And sure, democrat politicians did give their condolences about the guy but my comment wasn't about them but rather about just way too many people on that side of the aisle. And sure, the right wing has celebrated this sort of thing when it happens to their enemies.
What are the consequences of people reveling in his death though? This just seems like an aspect of decency politics, but it has no bearing on anything really. People on the Right didn't need an excuse to vilify anyone. They invent those reasons absent of anything they think they can cancel people over.
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My personal take reiterated - I don't think people should be assassinated for their beliefs. But I also don't think neofascists should necessarily feel safe in public in the type of place people say America is. Especially if they're a staunch gun advocate.
Nothing I have said about Kirk is actually apologetical of him. And sure, democrat politicians did give their condolences about the guy but my comment wasn't about them but rather about just way too many people on that side of the aisle. And sure, the right wing has celebrated this sort of thing when it happens to their enemies.
You were being dishonest about what Dems were saying or exaggerating, just as you are now. It's mostly the left and a few of them even, not showing empathy for Charlie, and you can't blame them.
You were being dishonest about what Dems were saying or exaggerating, just as you are now. It's mostly the left and a few of them even, not showing empathy for Charlie, and you can't blame them.
He can blame them if he wants, but then that'd be a matter of what value you think Kirk brought or his views, and I don't think kkck is doing that.
Perhaps it's callous, but the only people involved that I feel any degree of sympathy for would be his children. No one else.
If you subscribe to the concept of stochastic terrorism in any way, the idea of someone like Charlie Kirk being killed, while not necessarily justified, becomes karmic in a sense.
I wasn't being literal when I said that, just that Charlie's racism and misogyny makes it impossible for anyone not on the right to feel empathy for him.
I wasn't being literal when I said that, just that Charlie's racism and misogyny makes it impossible for anyone not on the right to feel empathy for him.
President Donald Trump says he will send troops to Portland, Oregon. He says he is “authorizing Full Force, if necessary” to handle what he is calling “domestic terrorists.”
