I still don't see how Irene would land a hit on August with the versatility he has in magic, the magic he got from OS with Sound magic reading her next move, Time slow magic and meteor to have more than enough speed and time to dodge, reflector in case he wants to turn her attacks on herself(which would harm her if she used a roar for example), and you have Gildarts' Crash to block the attacks, and copy magic that is stated to copy all caster magic.
I don't think Irene could counter these, and so this is August's win.
People saying that the narrative suggests that Irene' s dragon form was unknown to the spriggans and, by extension, suggests that Irene should be stronger, also have to take into account the other things the narrative implied. You can't take into account the allusions from one side solely.
Narrative also implied and explicitly stated August to have mastery over all caster magic. The narrative gave more hype and feats to what August's MP was capable of. The narrative suggested him to be the strongest of the 12 shield.
Not to mention, none of the spriggan knew of his connection to Zeref and Mavis.
The other spriggans always held him in high regard, but information like that (being related to the emperor, a child prodigy of magic and a medium of infinite magic) certainly can tip the power level weighing scales that the other spriggans may have.
If they didn't know of Irene's dragon form , then they certainly had no clue of August's connection to zeref and Mavis. That would have amped him up as well.
I'm confused. How exactly would being Zeref and Mavis son "amp him up"? That's not a power boost like a dragon form. The most it would served to do is gain him more respect as the prince of Alvarez. Everything he has now in regards to his abilities you could say has been his inheritance, his "great knowledge" as you've mentioned before, so I don't see what changes just because people suddenly know who his parents are.
I'm confused. How exactly would being Zeref and Mavis son "amp him up"? That's not a power boost like a dragon form. The most it would served to do is gain him more respect as the prince of Alvarez. Everything he has now in regards to his abilities you could say has been his inheritance, his "great knowledge" as you've mentioned before, so I don't see what changes just because people suddenly know who his parents are.
I mean information as crucial as that could make the other spriggans ponder on wether they've underestimated him. They hold him in high regard but this information could make them think they misjudged his actual prowess. It goes beyond what they initially expected of him, which was already high. That kinda stuff.
It was sword enchanted to kill Dragons. Freaking August can get pierced and sliced up by a regular sword. Jura couldn't do jack to a Dragon while Wendy could make one feel pain. Your entire point is moot. It doesn't matter if August is stronger than Wendy bcs she will always be more effective against a Dragon as she was bestowed magic made to hurt Dragons. August has no magic to hurt a Dragon as he isn't a Dragon Slayer therefore he has no way of hurting Irene who is above a normal Dragon.
I love that you basically ignore the whole point about the GMG dragons. Irene's dragon form being defeated by a bit of Dragon Slayer Magic is utterly pathetic compared to the immunity of GMG dragons to Dragon Slayer Magic. For real.
Silver froze Atlas' residual spiritual energy only. Atlas doesn't have his scales as he was a spirit that was dead. He couldn't freeze Atlas if he was alive as shown when just the residual spiritual energy Atlas had left was able to melt all the DeS ice. Your point is again moot.
No, the Eternal Flame was the remaining power of Atlas Flame. You could call it residual, yes, but who gives? It's still a dragon's power, so Silver's Ice Devil Slayer Magic did logically affect a dragon. Also why tf do you bring up scales while Atlas Flame doesn't even have any? Lol.
People can't put aside the indirect exchange between the top 2 spriggans that implies who is superior among them. The exchange is Mashima' s solution to settle the power debate between the 2. To me, it's as blatant as can be.
We can keep speculating on the myriad of scenarios that will arise from this battle because:
A.) The fighters are comparable in battle competency
B.) The crucial part, we don't know too much about them. They're abilities and respective limits were never fully explored. They were left out in the open for us to speculate on. We won't get an accurate measure of who actually is stronger by means of limitless,imited comparison between them.
Irene could somehow immobilized August and squash him.
August could use some spell he has never shown before because yes the magic king.
All of those are good assumptions. But that's all they are. Assumpations that rise from speculation.
If you want to relevant comparison then you should ignore Brandish's claim of their equality in whatever forms she knows of. She doesn't know them as good as they know themselves.
They know themselves the best.
Characterization depicts Irene as self-absorbed and arrogant as the scarlet despair of Alvarez. August as this wide, yet longing, grandpa that appreciated his nakama to some extent.
Irene, given her characterization STILL claims to be the strongest female of the spriggan 12. Female. Spriggan 12.
August complements her claim when he stated himself to be the strongest member of the 12. Member. Spriggan 12.
Connect them and you get that August is, as far as the manga has so far relayed to us, stronger.
I keep on reiterating this because it's the most crucial bit of critical Info on Who would win between these two. As BOTH had a say in it.
We can't keep on creating scenarios and then throwing factors In one by one.
In a fight like This, too many inaccuracies(limits as to abilities, no limits as to abilties) will be evident.
I understand what you're saying, but since like you said they know themselves better than anyone, how would you explain their meeting? Irene didn't exactly fall in line, and August went as far as to finish the job for her since she stated plainly that she wasn't moving until it was done. Then she said she would only go to "let him save face". As arrogant as you say she is she's never shown to be careless with her words. She wouldn't say something like that unless she could back it up.
Like you mention there are a lot of assumptions in this tournament and that really doesn't interest me. It's fun to counter assumptions with even bigger assumptions but in the end I've never seen August use DS Magic so I'm not going to assume some vague lines about God Serena being "with him" is proof that he has his abilities now. Just like I'm not going to assume that Irene can use anything stronger than Deus Sema because she's a master enchanter. I go by what I see. Does August defeat Irene in her human form? Of course. Does he defeat her as a dragon? Not in my opinion.
Enchantment vs enchantment can cancel each other. Irene might keep this secret hidden (if August doesn't know the truth about enchantment) but I can see August pushes Irene to her limit.
Thing is, nobody is saying Irene is stronger than August. That's a lie. So now being stronger means you win? Why didn't Natsu win last round then? The manga showed us some of the potency of Dragon Irene, one swipe of her claw can break bones in August's body. August no question has spells we've haven't seen but what, we're gonna make it up and speculate? Again, if Irene uses magic she's cooked, but she doesn't need to in this fight.
My point is that if it was moving anywhere near as fast as you are claiming, it would have hit the ground either right after or during the moment when the fodders were talking. The fact that they actually had a mini-conversation, and Erza managed to get into the sky, before Deus Sema landed can only mean that it slowed down dramatically after it entered the atmosphere. That's the only logical path here.
If we're talking about Deus Sema in space, then I agree with you since it has no resistance up there. However, if we're talking about it in the atmosphere then I disagree for the reasons stated above.
Also the Meteor wouldn't slow down due to Irene forcing it down with her magic, the size of the meteor, and the meteor was still vaporizing from the velocity in the atmosphere.
Why would Irene still be forcing it down via magic? She would have needed to force it via magic when it was still in space, but the second it got into the atmosphere it would have been dragged down due to gravity. And even if Irene was forcing it down, there's still the air resistance to think about.
Neither is in-atmosphere Deus Sema. But Jellal is moving fast enough to blitz Acnologia. And seeing as how August's copying magic tends to make his copied magic more powerful than the original, he should be going even faster than that.
Meteor is not that fast. Irene has already outclassed Jellal's best spell. I don't see why she couldn't enchant herself with double stats or use Deus Meteor.
I'm sticking to clear feats here, Irene may have shown to be able to replicate Sema via enchanting, but Meteor is much different. Besides, how would Meteor even work on a dragon? O_o
How are her reaction feats superior to August's? She got blitzed by DF Wendy, though to be fair DF Wendy is fast herself and she blindsided her. That being said, August stomped the entire of Crime Sorciere (bar Meredy and Angel) with ease (keep in mind this includes Meteor Jellal, the guy who blitzed Acnologia), and went on to easily contend with Gildarts + Cana despite being riddled with PIS/CIS. At best, their reaction feats are similar. At worst, August has much better reactions.
I can understand that some don't want to extrapolate too much and attribute too many unseen powers to either August or Irene, but if we go simply or strictly by what was shown, then we might as well say outright that we're just comparing August's feats and Irene's feats in tale-of-the-tape fashion instead of assuming and simulating a full-blown match-up, and that we're merely ranking which performance impressed us more. And I can concede that Irene showed more spectacular feats, but that's Hiro's fault for neglecting August despite his rank, his reputation, his background, his demeanor, etc.
Thing is, nobody is saying Irene is stronger than August. That's a lie. So now being stronger means you win? Why didn't Natsu win last round then? The manga showed us some of the potency of Dragon Irene, one swipe of her claw can break bones in August's body. August no question has spells we've haven't seen but what, we're gonna make it up and speculate? Again, if Irene uses magic she's cooked, but she doesn't need to in this fight.
You know, that's a really good point. Like just because August is stronger than Irene doesn't really mean he beats her. It's been shown where a Mage possessing whatever that gives them an advantage in battle to win like Marin who can negate all Spatial Magic users who are even stronger than he is and transport them to his alternate dimension if they ever violated the laws of space and there's his teleportation that was giving Natsu and Gray and hard time. And Irene is a dragon whose scales protects her from all kinds of Magic from regular mages with the exception of Dragon Slaying Magic which August have not shown to possess. I wasn't for sure who actually got this but due to this, I find this the reason why Irene wins.
I understand what you're saying, but since like you said they know themselves better than anyone, how would you explain their meeting? Irene didn't exactly fall in line, and August went as far as to finish the job for her since she stated plainly that she wasn't moving until it was done. Then she said she would only go to "let him save face". As arrogant as you say she is she's never shown to be careless with her words. She wouldn't say something like that unless she could back it up.
Like you mention there are a lot of assumptions in this tournament and that really doesn't interest me. It's fun to counter assumptions with even bigger assumptions but in the end I've never seen August use DS Magic so I'm not going to assume some vague lines about God Serena being "with him" is proof that he has his abilities now. Just like I'm not going to assume that Irene can use anything stronger than Deus Sema because she's a master enchanter. I go by what I see. Does August defeat Irene in her human form? Of course. Does he defeat her as a dragon? Not in my opinion.
Well, given August's demeanor when dealing with comrades she knew she wouldn't need to back it up because he wouldn't kill a comrade for some pretty reason. Reprimand yes, but pointless bloodshed over something that isn't even treason in the slightest? No way would he weaken their military might for something so petty.
She knows her way with words indeed, yes, that's why she decided to come along. I take it as an excuse on her part, and for his sake, to avoid needless bloodshed amongst allies.
My take on going with "what you see", is that it's limiting to what certain characters are built up to be.
If we are going by what we see, Then Marin would likely solo Erza. I think that to be unlikely given Erza has wounded the second strongest spriggan amongst the 12 and has performed rather well this arc.
My opinion is that you can connect certain abilities to characters if it links up well with what the narrative, story suggests. That way some characters that showed little get more justice. You just have to make sure that what you're linking to a certain character is plausible enough( ex. August knowing more magic than what he's shown, being able to retain spells copied long ago, and more).
Thing is, nobody is saying Irene is stronger than August. That's a lie. So now being stronger means you win? Why didn't Natsu win last round then? The manga showed us some of the potency of Dragon Irene, one swipe of her claw can break bones in August's body. August no question has spells we've haven't seen but what, we're gonna make it up and speculate? Again, if Irene uses magic she's cooked, but she doesn't need to in this fight.
Well, yes. If it's implied you're stronger, especially by both parties concerned, you are.
Gikdarrs was stated to be a cut above the rest way back, he was.
Makarov was stated to be stronger than the guild members we were first introduced to, he was.
Era was stated to be the strongest female in FT, she is.
It's a shounen. Statements count, especially when mentioned by antagonists who's power levels won't increase anymore.
August win because his magic countered Natsu' s. Had nullification. Been restricted, Natsu would've won.
Will the claw swipe break him though? The only character who got hit by it was already I terrible shape to begin with. I'm not saying it couldn't break his bones, I'm saying what if a more physically competent character wouldve taken it on. Much like August himself.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I don't know why it's so farfetched for some people to believe that August would be able to use spells that he hasn't shown, but has seen.
For instance. He witnessed mass manipulation. It was performed on him. He mastered crush/crash in a similar fashion. Wouldn't he just be able to make himself huge and not get crushed by the dragon claws anymore? I mean Makarov faught off a non-serious acno in titan form. Back in tenrou even.
If we're assuming. I'd like to have a logical go at it. This scenario is highly plausible and would be very efficient.
Thing is, nobody is saying Irene is stronger than August. That's a lie. So now being stronger means you win? Why didn't Natsu win last round then? The manga showed us some of the potency of Dragon Irene, one swipe of her claw can break bones in August's body. August no question has spells we've haven't seen but what, we're gonna make it up and speculate? Again, if Irene uses magic she's cooked, but she doesn't need to in this fight.
Early someone said that if Lucy sacrifices one of her keys in battle then in next battle she can't use that key So why August can't keep his preview fights purchase?
Also August was stated as king of all magic, so he probably may know almost all magic in the world. I know that he just copies others magic but he is older 100 years, he may know many type of magic.
And AM is not suicide spell. It is not more than Fairy Low just with different ability. And while mage has enough magic power to do that, it is not suicide.
Makarov defeated almost million people with S level MP and still alive.
If you restricted AM, so it must been restricted like one spell, not in suicide list.
Nah that person must have misinterpreted the rules (or was using last years rules). If Lucy broke a key she would get it back in the next battle. The same thing goes for injuries - you start fresh in the next fight. The reason for this is that people have varying outlooks on fights. For example, some people would say August cannot copy dragon slayer magic, while others do believe this can happen. For Lucy, a few people would break Capricorns key, some might suggest Aries key, or Taurus'. To eliminate conjecture, everything is refreshed after a character progresses. Simply put - the manga is the standard, and the tournament rules only apply for circumstances listed (such as restrictions).
Well I offered the panels where August died, despite the fact that he stopped chanting (ie didn't complete AM to it's full capability). So Ars Magia is lethal to the caster even if they don't vapourise everything as Mavis stated (August made people cough blood - the best feat of AM). In any case it's restricted, you may disagree how we've categorised it.
Something that needs to be noted here.
Meteor is NOT a battle technique. The argument that somehow August can land damage to Irene with this technique is a little ludicrous, since as noted by several uses in the past, unless it's accompanied by something else like CQC (What Jellal does), or a secondary spell, the best it can do it knock around the opponent.
If August uses Meteor on Irene, I expect him to get in a few hits and maybe knock her around, but this isn't the key to victory here. He needs to accompany it with another of his spells for it to account for something.
Something that needs to be noted here.
Meteor is NOT a battle technique. The argument that somehow August can land damage to Irene with this technique is a little ludicrous, since as noted by several uses in the past, unless it's accompanied by something else like CQC (What Jellal does), or a secondary spell, the best it can do it knock around the opponent.
If August uses Meteor on Irene, I expect him to get in a few hits and maybe knock her around, but this isn't the key to victory here. He needs to accompany it with another of his spells for it to account for something.
Agreed. Meteor will not damage someone of Irene's caliber. Irene has a great tankiness in human form, and a pitiful tankiness in dragon form unless you don't have DSM, which Meteor isn't. That's not going to do shit to Irene.
The only great use of Meteor in that match-up is dodging Irene's attacks - the ones that aren't getting negated.
Too bad there is no tie option. For me, Irene and August are equals and whoever wins wouldn't do so with anything less than high difficulty, but good arguments so far and some really perplexing assumptions as well
There is no such thing as Deus Meteor. Irene does not use Heavenly Body Magic and therefore cannot use Meteor, her using Deus Sema doesn't mean she can use HBM since Deus Sema is not HBM, it's Master Enchant, she enchanted a meteorite that was in space and brought it down to the battlefield unlike Jellal who creates one(or the effect of one) using his own MP. The term "Sema" is just used to identify to the reader that a meteorite is used, it means "star crush" or something along those lines while Deus means God in Latin.
Deus Sema involves Enchantment magic while THBM: Sema involves Heavenly Body Magic.
However, since Enchantment can be pretty versatile, Irene should be able to increase her speed, it just wouldn't be via Meteor. Speed wouldn't be the decisive factor anyway.
Agreed. Meteor will not damage someone of Irene's caliber. Irene has a great tankiness in human form, and a pitiful tankiness in dragon form unless you don't have DSM, which Meteor isn't. That's not going to do shit to Irene.
The only great use of Meteor in that match-up is dodging Irene's attacks - the ones that aren't getting negated.
Hahaha it's always best when we're on the same page Taku
Pretty much, which is why tbh, I'm not overly impressed by August using Meteor to blitz Gildarts and Cana. It wasn't even an attack he used, he just dodged All Crush, then knocked them around, there was no damage from that instance he used Meteor.
He can use them to dodge her enchantments though, I'll give him that. And maybe catch her off guard a few times, but thats about it. Irene was able to dodge an attack from Acnologia (even if he wasn't being serious), the fact that she could get out of the way in time shows me that after a while Meteor woul be something Irene would be able to react to.
Hahaha it's always best when we're on the same page Taku
Pretty much, which is why tbh, I'm not overly impressed by August using Meteor to blitz Gildarts and Cana. It wasn't even an attack he used, he just dodged All Crush, then knocked them around, there was no damage from that instance he used Meteor.
He can use them to dodge her enchantments though, I'll give him that. And maybe catch her off guard a few times, but thats about it. Irene was able to dodge an attack from Acnologia (even if he wasn't being serious), the fact that she could get out of the way in time shows me that after a while Meteor woul be something Irene would be able to react to.
So why August can't keep his preview fights purchase? 
