Canon Base Luffy vs Zoro

[nik87]

Whatever help you sleep at night despite what I lay out to you. Your free to agree with it or not, but I posted what you wanted, so don't complain now if it's not in your favor.

That what you posted only confirmed what I already knew and that is that your arguments are poor and your personal headcanon and that you lack actual proof. If anything we see from that pole is that it didn't limit Luffy to base form and it includes all his power and still Zoro got 41% of the votes, that's very close to evenly split opinion. You basically shot yourself in the leg with that pole.

Not really, but regardless you didn't debate what I said last post, so I take Luffy on the win with Haki being better than Zoro .

Haki or no Haki, Zoro> Luffy base form, easily.

How's that headcanon mine when Oda made him admit it? You seem to be in denial on wanting Zoro to be better against Luffy in a lot of things when it's impossible given the positions and such. Again your free to think what you like, but Oda will always put the real facts in your face even when your wrong.

It's your headcanon because you dont know what you are talking about, the usual. It's not only very possible but also the certain thing for a majority of the community that Zoro easily takes Luffy in base form. Only fact is that you are in denial and dont accept what majority thinks of it because it's different to your opinion.

Oda never said he was tougher than Sanji

Oh, but he did. He didnt allow the cook to take all the damage in Thriller Bark but left it to the Vice-captain.

Sanji is equal to Zoro no matter what, so no use of getting upset over it.

Only you are getting upset because there is no support for your headcanon.

If you keep talking about this side again, then you prove you have no self-control and fanboyism off-charts.

Since you cant accept that Zoro is better let this be your final response regarding that issue.

 

[King Moe]

That what you posted only confirmed what I already knew and that is that your arguments are poor and your personal headcanon and that you lack actual proof. If anything we see from that pole is that it didn't limit Luffy to base form and it includes all his power and still Zoro got 41% of the votes, that's very close to evenly split opinion. You basically shot yourself in the leg with that pole.


Haki or no Haki, Zoro> Luffy base form, easily.


It's your headcanon because you dont know what you are talking about, the usual. It's not only very possible but also the certain thing for a majority of the community that Zoro easily takes Luffy in base form. Only fact is that you are in denial and dont accept what majority thinks of it because it's different to your opinion.


Oh, but he did. He didnt allow the cook to take all the damage in Thriller Bark but left it to the Vice-captain.


Only you are getting upset because there is no support for your headcanon.


Since you cant accept that Zoro is better let this be your final response regarding that issue.

Nope, just you dude respectfully. Enjoy your inner fantasy, headcannon and really? Your excited Zoro has 41% against Luffy in 59%? Lol, close to 900 votes to Zoro's measly around 500 votes and you still think fandom is majority think Zoro have over Luffy? Lol, yep your really headcanon mindset. Go read up on other websites and try to comment on those debates against who stronger if you still have in your mind as Zoro as the strongest in everyway XD.

Nah, reverse, but sweet your denied the inevitable like that even when Oda confirms it as well their fight in Whiskey Peaks and Zoro could hardly touch him while Luffy kept hitting him .

Nah, not me. You have failed to prove what I put out is false when you ask for link to a poll on the Luffy vs Zoro issue as well website as well. If you can't accept that after everything your the only one fighting against it. Again, agree to disagree respectfully, but majority speaks, so learn to deal with it.

You mean before or after Zoro lost horrible to Enel and couldn't take his attacks while Sanji took a billion bolt and still kept standing to get the last laugh to Enel? Yeah, Zoro learn from the best that is called self-sacrifice and how it's done lol.

Nah, I accept how strong he is right now, but not delusion on saying he is stronger than Luffy when no clear evidence is in that for his performance so far in NW. Now this is our last reply to one another on this subject since we can't agree. End the discussion with my post as the last and don't try to post back if you really want a 'final response' to this discussion. No need to continue this when there is no point on continue debating.

 

[nik87]

Your excited Zoro has 41% against Luffy in 59%?

50% vs 50% is being even, 41% vs 59% aint far from it and it's considering Luffy's full power. Those results speak against you.

Zoro's measly around 500 votes

You mixed up 500 and 600.

Nah, reverse, but sweet your denied the inevitable like that even when Oda confirms it as well their fight in Whiskey Peaks and Zoro could hardly touch him while Luffy kept hitting him .

Still your headcanon. We are a long way from Whiskey Peak.

Nah, not me. You have failed to prove what I put out is false when you ask for link to a poll on the Luffy vs Zoro issue as well website as well. If you can't accept that after everything your the only one fighting against it. Again, agree to disagree respectfully, but majority speaks, so learn to deal with it.

Your headcanon again. You still refuse to link a thread where that pole is posted. It's not hard to guess why. You can disagree all you want but majority doesnt agree with your opinion.

You mean before or after Zoro lost horrible to Enel and couldn't take his attacks while Sanji took a billion bolt and still kept standing to get the last laugh to Enel? Yeah, Zoro learn from the best that is called self-sacrifice and how it's done lol.

Zoro took 2 attacks from Enel compared to one attack that Sanji took. Another point for Zoro.

Nah, I accept how strong he is right now, but not delusion on saying he is stronger than Luffy when no clear evidence is in that for his performance so far in NW. Now this is our last reply to one another on this subject since we can't agree. End the discussion with my post as the last and don't try to post back if you really want a 'final response' to this discussion. No need to continue this when there is no point on continue debating.

There is clear evidence you just dont accept it.
Since you cant accept it and want it to end because of your lack of proof let this be final response in that regard. No need to reply to this.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

 

[afromarco005]

Zoro slays.

 

[King Moe]

Zoro slays.

Nah, Luffy got this.

 

[afromarco005]

Nah, Luffy got this.

Based on what exactly Moe Kun?

What happens is

Luffy: I bet I can whoop your ass without any gears zoro!

Zoro: Oh rly?

15 seconds later:

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Same scenario for gear second and third Luffy but mid diff instead of low/neg

 

[Pirate Queen]

Based on what exactly Moe Kun?

What happens is

Luffy: I bet I can whoop your ass without any gears zoro!

Zoro: Oh rly?

15 seconds later:

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Same scenario for gear second and third Luffy but mid diff instead of low/neg

Okay, slow it down there buddy, once Luffy activates his Gears + Haki, Zoro wins/loses Extreme Difficulty

Gear 4 is a straight up loss for Zoro

Luffy has superior CoO + superior CoA

Unless you can show me feats from Zoro that eclipse Doflamingo and Katakuri.


Zoro hasn't shown enough to put him at Luffy's level... YET

And even base Luffy without gears can give Zoro a change because of his superior haki

 

[afromarco005]

Okay, slow it down there buddy, once Luffy activates his Gears + Haki, Zoro wins/loses Extreme Difficulty

Gear 4 is a straight up loss for Zoro

Luffy has superior CoO + superior CoA

Unless you can show me feats from Zoro that eclipse Doflamingo and Katakuri.


Zoro hasn't shown enough to put him at Luffy's level... YET

And even base Luffy without gears can give Zoro a change because of his superior haki

Gear 4th is excluded here no?

Feats? Zoro cut a town sized giant golem and bypassed his haki defenses Whithout using his strongest move.

Zoro is an armament haki specialist as stated by Oda himself, I dont see his beeing that much lower than Luffy's.

Zoro's observation and reflexes let him block thousands of bullet like water droplets fired by hody with just the hilt of his sword.

Luffy's G2 and 3rd where ridiculed by Doffy.

Zoro is stronger than sanji and people hype sanji as being on YC level, aint no way luffy is beating a YC with no gear/2/3

As Zoro says, "Over the 9 mountains and 8 seas... Throughout the world itself... There is nothing I cannot cut." Luffy goes down with no gears/gear 2nd/3rd

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Zoro's observation and reflexes let him block thousands of bullet like water droplets fired by hody with just the hilt of his sword.

Just to rob KingMoe beforehand:

But Hawkins Nails!

 

[Pirate Queen]

Gear 4th is excluded here no?

Feats? Zoro cut a town sized giant golem and bypassed his haki defenses Whithout using his strongest move.

Zoro is an armament haki specialist as stated by Oda himself, I dont see his beeing that much lower than Luffy's.

Zoro's observation and reflexes let him block thousands of bullet like water droplets fired by hody with just the hilt of his sword.

Luffy's G2 and 3rd where ridiculed by Doffy.

Zoro is stronger than sanji and people hype sanji as being on YC level, aint no way luffy is beating a YC with no gear/2/3

As Zoro says, "Over the 9 mountains and 8 seas... Throughout the world itself... There is nothing I cannot cut." Luffy goes down with no gears/gear 2nd/3rd

Zoro is a CoA Haki specialist true, but by you own admission it is a tad lower than Luffy's so we've established he would have a hard time cutting Luffy (and this is still in base)

Zoro can block Fishman projectiles and dodge quickly, but Luffy has future sight so and fight between the 2 is an uphill battle for Zoro let alone when you add gears to it.

Zoro beats Base Luffy Mid-Diff
Zoro wins/loses/ties Gears 2/3 Luffy Extreme Diff
Zoro loses against Gear 4 Luffy Low Diff

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Just to rob KingMoe beforehand:

But Hawkins Nails!

Live footage of Zoro dodging Hawkins nails if Luffy and Okiku didnt need protecting

 

[afromarco005]

Zoro is a CoA Haki specialist true, but by you own admission it is a tad lower than Luffy's so we've established he would have a hard time cutting Luffy (and this is still in base)

Zoro can block Fishman projectiles and dodge quickly, but Luffy has future sight so and fight between the 2 is an uphill battle for Zoro let alone when you add gears to it.

Zoro beats Base Luffy Mid-Diff
Zoro wins/loses/ties Gears 2/3 Luffy Extreme Diff
Zoro loses against Gear 4 Luffy Low Diff

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

Live footage of Zoro dodging Hawkins nails if Luffy and Okiku didnt need protecting

Luffy may have future sight and slightly better haki but he cant overpower or outspeed zoro with these moves. Zoro is a tank too so I dont see Luffy gear 1.2or3 win this fight.

Damn I forgot about that, if luffy throws nails at zoro then Luffy no diffs him! Nails are Zoro's own kairoseki!

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy may have future sight and slightly better haki but he cant overpower or outspeed zoro with these moves. Zoro is a tank too so I dont see Luffy gear 1.2or3 win this fight.

Damn I forgot about that, if luffy throws nails at zoro then Luffy no diffs him! Nails are Zoro's own kairoseki!

Gomu Gomu no JET NAIL GUN!!!!
= dead Zoro before he can even touch his swords

 

[nik87]

Live footage of Zoro dodging Hawkins nails if Luffy and Okiku didnt need protecting

Nice one.

We dont really know if Zoro's CoA is stronger or weaker than Luffy's but I assume they are close. Even if Luffy's a bit ahead it's not a guaranteed protection from Zoro's swords, he will get cut for sure.
This debate is about Zoro against base form Luffy and that's no challenge at all for Zoro, imo.
Against G2 and G3 Zoro shouldn't have much trouble either, as Doffy pointed out, they lack power/speed against stronger opponents. I just cant see Luffy tanking any of Zoro's special moves when Cracker's simple swing managed to cut Luffys hardening in G4.
Zoro sure does look helpless or at least not able to do much against G4 but thats because we havent seen anything new from Zoro nor his limit while Luffy had many chances to show off what new stuff he learned.
About Luffy's future sight, he does have it but it's way too unreliable ability since he cant use it permanently. Until we see him pulling off Katakuri's lvl of FS I wouldn't give FS argument too much value.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Nice one.

We dont really know if Zoro's CoA is stronger or weaker than Luffy's but I assume they are close. Even if Luffy's a bit ahead it's not a guaranteed protection from Zoro's swords, he will get cut for sure.
This debate is about Zoro against base form Luffy and that's no challenge at all for Zoro, imo.
Against G2 and G3 Zoro shouldn't have much trouble either, as Doffy pointed out, they lack power/speed against stronger opponents. I just cant see Luffy tanking any of Zoro's special moves when Cracker's simple swing managed to cut Luffys hardening in G4.
Zoro sure does look helpless or at least not able to do much against G4 but thats because we havent seen anything new from Zoro nor his limit while Luffy had many chances to show off what new stuff he learned.
About Luffy's future sight, he does have it but it's way too unreliable ability since he cant use it permanently. Until we see him pulling off Katakuri's lvl of FS I wouldn't give FS argument too much value.

Which is why I said Zoro beats Luffy Mid Diff while in base. Eventually, even with the very little we've seen of Zoro, Zoro takes this despite Luffy's superior haki

Zoro would have his entire arsenal and Luffy would only be at 10 - 15% of his entire arsenal.

This battle was a no brainer and I only made it to prove a point about Zoro's strength.


NOW.....

Queen is very likely to face off against Luffy in the next chapter, while Luffy is weakened by the seastone cuffs...

If Luffy puts on a show and is actually a threat to Queen despite being at a major disadvantage???

This entire arguement flips itself on back.

(I dont think this is likely, but it is possible)

 

[afromarco005]

Which is why I said Zoro beats Luffy Mid Diff while in base. Eventually, even with the very little we've seen of Zoro, Zoro takes this despite Luffy's superior haki

Zoro would have his entire arsenal and Luffy would only be at 10 - 15% of his entire arsenal.

This battle was a no brainer and I only made it to prove a point about Zoro's strength.


NOW.....

Queen is very likely to face off against Luffy in the next chapter, while Luffy is weakened by the seastone cuffs...

If Luffy puts on a show and is actually a threat to Queen despite being at a major disadvantage???

This entire arguement flips itself on back.

(I dont think this is likely, but it is possible)

If luffy stalemates or beats queen with cuffs I will agree that Base Luffy>>>>Zoro+RsSanji

 

[nik87]

If cuffed Luffy is any challenge to Queen, Oda will screw the power lvl system completely and I'll flip some tables.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If cuffed Luffy is any challenge to Queen, Oda will screw the power lvl system completely and I'll flip some tables.

Would it tho? Luffy is now considered( or should be > or = YC1

Aside from Yonko and Admirals. No one should realistically pose a massive threat to
Luffy, even YC's

The issue here is Luffy should be weak enough with the cuffs to pose little to moderate threat to Queen... But nothing impressive

 

[afromarco005]

Would it tho? Luffy is now considered( or should be > or = YC1

Aside from Yonko and Admirals. No one should realistically pose a massive threat to
Luffy, even YC's

The issue here is Luffy should be weak enough with the cuffs to pose little to moderate threat to Queen... But nothing impressive

I agree, YC are a lowdiff fight for a Yonko. If Oda wants to make us believe that Luffy and his allies can take down Kaido at the end of Wano then Luffy needs to get way stronger.

 

[Copy Panda]

If Zoro could beat Luffy, wouldn't Zoro be captain? What has Zoro done that Luffy couldn’t? What did Luffy do that Zoro could do better?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2019 ---

If cuffed Luffy is any challenge to Queen, Oda will screw the power lvl system completely and I'll flip some tables.

If he 'defeated' Katakuri at high diff, post 'training arc', shouldn't he be able to somewhat stand against Queen now? I believe that was the point of this prison build up