Re: NBA thread
I don't mind the long post.
It seems like we both have a different idea of what an MVP is.
This is my definition of an MVP:
A player who is not only dominant individually (which is Kobe), but also dominant as a team player (unfortunately, that is Nash). He is well rounded in all aspects of the game (good in almost all statistical categories), exceptional at both ends of the floor (both offense and defense), and most of all, he carries the biggest burden from his team.
In other words, you have such a valuable impact, that if you are physically removed from the team, your team would falter. In addition, you are such an asset to the team overall, that your team boasts a respectable winning record.
Note: Nash's defense suck, even compared to an average player, you cannot overlook this fact. Kobe, on the other hand, has been named in the ALL NBA defensive team, at least once in his career. Although this year he wasn't awarded this recognition, he is still overall a great defensive player, much better than your boy Nash.
Now, first of all, I was not the one to initiate the comparison between Iverson and Kobe, that was you. Second, I know what you were trying to say: Kobe, just like Iverson, attempts too many shots just to put up those big numbers. The reason I put up this season's statistic, and used both player's stats for comparison, is because they are
relevant, and to show you that Kobe has taken
less field goals than he used to, even for a player who is the primary go-to guy, and that his field goal percentage has gone up by a percent (than recent years). In sum, the claim that Kobe is forcing his shots just like Iverson has no merit.
Now, back on topic:
So what exactly are you saying here? That a shooting guard cannot become an MVP simply because his position involves shooting the ball more often, as opposed to being a passer? Hey guess what, Jordan is a 6 time MVP and he was a shooting guard, just like Kobe.
And since we love comparing players here, just as you compared Iverson and Kobe, let me spit it back at you a similar comparison:
Jason Kidd vs. Nash. Now, they are both point guards, so I guess by your standards we can compare them right?
Kidd in his career averaged 9.2 assists per game. He is probably, among active players, the most with triple doubles (usually, he puts up double digits on points, rebounds, and assists). That demonstrates well-roundedness.
And how many times did Kidd take his team to the Finals, and Eastern Finals? I'll tell you what, he did it more often than Nash (Nash has yet to reach the Finals). And did Kidd win a single MVP?
No.
Look man, I'm giving you hard facts, which I thought is
relevant.
I understand your reasoning that Nash makes his teammates better, but so does Kobe, except for one major difference: Kobe's teammates all suck, except Odom.
Nash won last year's MVP, presumably because nobody expected them to win so many games with their key player, Amare Stoudemire, injured. But people forget and underestimate that Shawn Marion is an awesome player, in fact he was an all star last year and this year. Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Barbossa, Tim Thomas, those guys were all having phenomenal years last season. I guess you can say part of the reason they were successful was a tribute to Nash's greatness, but on the other hand, they would have blossomed either way, with or without Nash.
When Nash was with the Dallas Mavericks, they were already a great team. When he left Dallas for Phoenix, did Dallas falter?
No. Why? Because Dallas was already a great team, with or without Nash.
I guess you can say that Nash is an extremely lucky guy to have had the chance to play in such good teams.
And this year, you can't really say, Nash should win the MVP, if you want to stay consistent. The fact is, Amare Stoudemire is back, and so is Shawn Marion. Nash did not make those two players better, they certainly don't need any of Nash's help, because they are good enough as it is.
What kind of counter-argument can you give me, with respect to Kobe? Can you tell me, with hard evidence, that Kobe's teammates would do well, with or without him? Is Odom such a good stand-alone player, that he would carry the Lakers all on his own, without Kobe? He's not even in the All stars!
So in sum, both Kobe and Nash don't deserve to win this year's MVP. As good as they both are, they are not as valuable to their team as a whole, as Dirk Nowitski. At least we agree on this one.
And I'm not saying Kobe is flawless. If anything, I wish he would pass the ball more like Nash. We already know he can score, now he should work on his passing game. And likewise, I wish Nash would work on his defense. You see, nobody is flawless.
