Discussion Best Offense - Results

[Demon Hunter]

I was just trying to give a logical reason why @Tirl thinks Erza has 0 offensive attacks. Maybe Erza is like He-man without her swords she is fodder. Maybe it's the swords that give her stats. It also implants her with memories of how to be swordsman and her swords make her move. So on her own, she has o offensive attacks. We did see what Erza's foot did to Laxus when she tried to kick him.

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Spoiler

he forgot his lightning cloak or something

 

[Jko]

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he forgot his lightning cloak or something

Erza likes kicking Laxus. Think she might have a foot fetish

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Considering I posted the entire fight, I don't see how I forgot about it.

My point was that the fight doesn't line up. Just look at it like this:

1) Skullion and Madmole appear and the fight starts, Elfman attacks in his Werelion form and hits Madmole who isn't even defending himself. Despite this Elfman is the one who is hurt and Madmole is unmarked

2) BSS Mira then attacks Skullion but can't hurt him physically, she dodges his counter-attack and hits him with a BSS nuke... which he is unaffected by and kicks her to the ground - at which point the perspective shifts to another character

3) When it returns to Mira/Elfman vs Madmole/Skullion, Elfman isn't even in a Soul and Mira is still in BSS. Both of them are scratched up and seem tired (my Japanese isn't good at all but I'm pretty sure the hiragana next to them is panting noises). Meanwhile Skullion/Madmole are both untouched, they even boast about it. The perspective then changes again.

4) The next time it switches back to the on-going fight all we see is all four of them clashing with attacks going all around them, neither side seems to be dominating

5) The last part we're shown is where both parties are scratched up and are admitting their opponents are strong

And this is where I ask, how did the Strauss' go from literally not being able to hurt them to causing them to be scratched up? Keep in mind that Madmole no-sold a Sword Horn + FDK Demo Fist and was completely unmarked, and that Skullion tanked DeS Zeroth Long Sword from Gray.

The thing is, I could accept the result if we knew the Strauss' had switched into more powerful Souls, but they went from literally being unable to even scratch them (and in Elfman's case being hurt just by hitting Madmole) to suddenly being able to harm them more than an FDK Demo Fist or a DeS Long Sword (respectively).

This deserves to be scrutinised.

We saw Gray hit Skullion with a long sword. We saw Natsu damage Madmole they second time they fought and he even damaged Skullion. They’re not immune to damage so it makes sense that after fighting for a while Mira and Elfman would be able to damage them also. I repeat, they’re not immune to damage.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Erza likes kicking Laxus. Think she might have a foot fetish

well, legs are stronger than arms... especially when it comes to women

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Erza likes kicking Laxus. Think she might have a foot fetish

Maybe Erza wanted Laxus to kiss her feet. She did think she was more powerful than him. Maybe she wanted him to submit before her.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 18, 2020 ---

Wonder how her feet smells.

 

[Jko]

well, legs are stronger than arms... especially when it comes to women

Should have used her legs with swords then lol.

Maybe Erza wanted Laxus to kiss her feet. She did think she was more powerful than him. Maybe she wanted him to submit before her.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 18, 2020 ---

Wonder how her feet smells.

Maybe or maybe it's bcs she knows Laxus is manly enough to handle her fetishes

Dirty as hell since she has no shoes on with Red Pants, but Laxus don't seem to mind

 

[Demon Hunter]

Should have used her legs with swords then lol.

she would have to walk on her arms then

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

she would have to walk on her arms then

Didn't she use her legs against Irene at the beginning of their battle? She even wanted her own mother to smell her feet. Talk about disrespect.

 

[Jko]

she would have to walk on her arms then

She was shown to be able to walk and do it at the same time against Ever tho. Also did it against Irene and Knightwalker.

 

[Tirl]

Wonder how her feet smells.

Smell of Friendship

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Kagura lowdiffed Erza on GMG. Pretty enough

Wait what? Erza one shotted her lol then she went on to defeat Minerva.

 

[Tirl]

Wait what? Erza one shotted her lol then she went on to defeat Minerva.

You serious??

Spoiler: page

Kagura countered everything Erza threw at her. She nodiffed Armadura armor (which tanked Jupiter), Heavens Wheel, outspeed her in her fast claw armor. Erza literally on her knees after that, full in blood. And even after BS power with her cherry sword, Kagura didnt even get any new scratch, was able to pull up giant rock, took sword in belly and still was in more good state than Erza. I think she didnt even get hit by Erza's cherry sword, cuz on panel there wasnt a strike, Kagura just fell on the floor.

"Erza oneshotted her" yeah... almost died = oneshot

 

[Takuan]

You serious??

Kagura countered everything Erza threw at her. She nodiffed Armadura armor (which tanked Jupiter), Heavens Wheel, outspeed her in her fast claw armor. Erza literally on her knees after that, full in blood. And even after BS power with her cherry sword, Kagura didnt even get any new scratch, was able to pull up giant rock, took sword in belly and still was in more good state than Erza. I think she didnt even get hit by Erza's cherry sword, cuz on panel there wasnt a strike, Kagura just fell on the floor.

"Erza oneshotted her" yeah... almost died = oneshot

 

[Tirl]

 

[Ramen]

You serious??

Kagura countered everything Erza threw at her. She nodiffed Armadura armor (which tanked Jupiter), Heavens Wheel, outspeed her in her fast claw armor. Erza literally on her knees after that, full in blood. And even after BS power with her cherry sword, Kagura didnt even get any new scratch, was able to pull up giant rock, took sword in belly and still was in more good state than Erza. I think she didnt even get hit by Erza's cherry sword, cuz on panel there wasnt a strike, Kagura just fell on the floor.

"Erza oneshotted her" yeah... almost died = oneshot

But between the three Erza was the winner.

Erza one shots Kagura rn

 

[Ebony Maw]

Natsu and Gajeel versus the twins happened in a similar matter. Gajeel couldn't touch Rogue and then he did lol. Mira and Elf were just holding back the first time around and then they weren't.

Weren't Natsu and Gajeel playing the Twin Dragons from the start though? If I'm not wrong about that, the scenarios are too different.

Against Sting and Rogue they were clearly holding back since (IIRC) they comment on how they were learning their attack patterns, movements, etc.

In the case of Mira and Elfman neither made any comments alluding to anything like that, they just called them strong. Of course we have to accept that Mira did hold back due to her canonically having strong Souls. But Elfman? Even if you want to say he held back, you still have to somehow explain Elfman's Soul going from being hurt from hitting Madmole to surpassing the striking strength of an FDK Demo Fist. That is far too drastic of a difference to be explained by Elfman holding back.

Elf in particular just justified how he beat Ajeel in that fight.

Tbh I don't think it even needed justifying that much, he had a Soul that was made to counter Sand Magic and had assistance from Lisanna (which protected him from the one sand attack that would have saved Ajeel). Ajeel isn't exactly particularly strong even by Spriggan standards either.

The results aren't up to suspect as the DEs were never out of their league. In fact we know Mira held back and we don't even know if Lion Soul is Elf's best.

Mira holding back is a weird part of this tbh, since it makes her look stupid as hell. "If we continued fighting, would we even have won?" - probably, if you'd just gone into a stronger Soul from the start? At least when Team Natsu lost to the DE's the first time around it was because they were shocked by their abilities and the fights ended before they could enter stronger modes (or use more suitable attacks in the case of Natsu). With Mira and Elfman, Mira just stayed in base for no reason. So while I do agree that Mira held back (in that she wasn't using stronger Souls, I think she definitely wasn't pulling punches even though she was in BSS), that only makes the entirety of the fight stranger to me since its still weird for Skullion to go from being completely undamaged by physical and Magical attacks to being scratched up.

As for Elfman though, I suppose we'll only see as time goes on whether that was his strongest Soul or not. But for now its the strongest he has, and going from being hurt from hitting a passive Madmole to scratching him up makes no sense when this is a guy who shrugged off an FDK Demo Fist. Like I said above, its too drastic of a difference to just be a case of Elfman holding back when in the exact same Soul.

My final stance on this is that you're right about Mira holding back but I don't buy Elfman holding back at all, and even though I accept Mira was holding back, its still weird as hell that Madmole/Skullion went from being completely untouched to being just as scratched up as the Strauss'.

God off-panel fights suck lmao
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We saw Gray hit Skullion with a long sword. We saw Natsu damage Madmole they second time they fought and he even damaged Skullion. They’re not immune to damage so it makes sense that after fighting for a while Mira and Elfman would be able to damage them also. I repeat, they’re not immune to damage.

Where did I claim Madmole and Skullion are immune to damage? I was the one that raised Skullion being hit by Gray in the first place.

Not sure if you're purposefully being disingenuous here but Natsu hurting Madmole in their second battle does nothing for Elfman's case. The manga makes it clear that Natsu isn't damaging him conventionally, instead he used FDK Purgatory to surpass Madmole's heat resistance:

Spoiler

If anything Elfman's feats in this off-panel fight look even more suspect since god damn Natsu chose to overpower Madmole through heat rather than actual striking power. So yeah, Elfman damaging Madmole to such an extent while in the same Soul that got hurt just from hitting a passive Madmole is looking like some major BS.

The point I've being trying to make is that Madmole's and Skullion's durability is pretty damn impressive. So when they get scratched up in an off-panel fight, an off-panel fight that they were clearly winning at the start since Mira and Elfman were damaged first while they were unscratched, something is weird when the fight ends with all parties looking equally damaged.

Just to repeat, no they aren't immune to damage but that wasn't my point and you would have known that had you bothered to read my previous reply.

 

[grey matter]

@Ebony Maw
Regarding Elfman vs Madmole, I have an explanation:

You think Madmole can tank infinite demo fists? Of course not.
His ABILITY is tanking. It's NOT his natural durability or tankiness. Elfman could've kept spamming attacks until the guy let his defense loose or until he became low on magic power (and hence his defense reduce).

I think this makes sense, what do you think?

 

[Ramen]

@Ebony Maw
Regarding Elfman vs Madmole, I have an explanation:



I think this makes sense, what do you think?

But Elfman has never shown any attack that could get past that Armour. Sure he scratched the surface but he didn't immobilize him or put a serious dent in him like Natsu.

 

[Ebony Maw]

@Ebony Maw
Regarding Elfman vs Madmole, I have an explanation:



I think this makes sense, what do you think?

Not really tbh. I mean, Madmole loosening up his defence doesn't seem likely at all, even when he made now attempt to block Elfman, it was Elfman who hurt himself when he punched him. As for the argument about MP, none of them seem to be low on it since Elfman wanted to continue, Madmole was surprised Skullion ordered a retreat, and Skullion retreated because they were outnumbered by foes who were stronger than expected. Even Mira's comment about not knowing who would win if the fight continued doesn't really serve as evidence to either theory.

 

[grey matter]

But Elfman has never shown any attack that could get past that Armour. Sure he scratched the surface but he didn't immobilize him

What I'm saying is that his "Armour" is like Fire for Natsu. IT's his ability, not his natural state.
His armour can tank a lot when he's high in magic power, but it weakens as his magic power lowers. IMO, every time he tanks something with his ability, that consumes magi power. So maybe Elfman would've kept attacking until Madmole until he sort of ran low on magic power.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 18, 2020 ---

Not really tbh. I mean, Madmole loosening up his defence doesn't seem likely at all, even when he made now attempt to block Elfman, it was Elfman who hurt himself when he punched him. As for the argument about MP, none of them seem to be low on it since Elfman wanted to continue, Madmole was surprised Skullion ordered a retreat, and Skullion retreated because they were outnumbered by foes who were stronger than expected. Even Mira's comment about not knowing who would win if the fight continued doesn't really serve as evidence to either theory.

^^

What we do know is that Madmole was injured to an extent, he had scratches and shit