Discussion Big Mom Pirates

[nguqua]

Tell me, would it be logical for Luffy to beat someone who is in the level of the top dogs right now at this moment, just as soon that the second part of OP began ? Would it have been logical for instance, if Crocodile is strong as Mihawk, and be defeated in the first part of the GL Saga ? Would be there any evolution for the character, both in strenght and character ? If Luffy has already become top tier, just how can you imagine the story will evolve ? Just how ?

Did you read my post concerning this? Please explain to me how you know beyond certainty that Luffy will face Big Mom before meeting any other enemies, or that there's no way she won't turn out to be Luffy's friend. As Uriel has said, circumstances played a big role. If it wasn't, Luffy would have been fried by Enel no contest.

 

[Zehahaha]

Did you read my post concerning this? Please explain to me how you know beyond certainty that Luffy will face Big Mom before meeting any other enemies, or that there's no way she won't turn out to be Luffy's friend. As Uriel has said, circumstances played a big role. If it wasn't, Luffy would have been fried by Enel no contest.

Fried by Enel ? The guy was Enel's weakness, how can he be fried by him ?
Ok then, suppose for a second that he will not face BM and will turn to be buddies (then why did Oda bother to make Luffy declare war on her, but nvm that), who would he face ? Pirates like Squardo ? No way, obviously too weak for Luffy, Kaidou ? How is that gonna happen since he wasn't even introduced yet ? BB, nope too early, Shanks ? They wouldn't fight and it is too early if Oda ever intend to make them fight, Akainu... Kizaru ? Too early to face an admiral for sure.

Then give me a single character that would give Luffy trouble, but more than that, to make the balance shift again, we all know what Crocodile's defeat has caused. So who do you think would fill that part hmm ? I don't see anyone here besides BM for now.

Again, what kind of enemies will Luffy face ? Allied crews ? You think that a shitty pirate from NW can stand to Luffy atm ? We have all seen how " remarkable " they were in the war isn't it ? It even took 3 captains from the NW to take down a single Pacifista. You think that BM's allies will be stronger than WB's allies ? I doubt that...

But you wouldn't say Crocodile was in the same level of Luffy or that admirals were one more weak than the others, right? Because you just can't measure that of that situation. OP is usually the best one when it comes to screw up power levels. That's why I think that when you say that it's impossible for BM to be in the same league of the other Yonkous it's pretentious as hell because you don't know the circumstances, her ability and how Luffy will confront her.

The war.

Before the war, we have never seen top dogs fighting, we didn't have a single idea about that. Some people (even me at some point) believed that Admirals are only strong thanks to their Logia and anyone with Haki can kick their sorry asses. The war proved us wrong. Let's check what happenned : Aokiji & Kizaru & Akainu unscathed (I'm sorry, even after taking that hit from WB, Akainu was still okay and was pursuing Luffy and dealt with the WB pirates), Garp & Sengoku unscathed (considering those fives as the top dogs of the marines), let's take a look at the WB pirates : WB dead, Ace dead, Marco got his ass kicked, Jozu frozen, Curiel defeated by Akainu. It was painfully obvious to us the complete supremacy of the admirals, and were truly fit to be called " The greatest military power " of the WG. WB was sick, that's correct, but still, not managing to overcome Aokiji's haki when he tried to stab him, not managing to land a hit on Kizaru and Aokiji, and only hitting for once Akainu and not even being able to definitely knock him out.

We got a solid evidence about the power of the top dogs at the war, therefore we can absolutely say that Crocodile is weaker than Admirals and some Shichibukai, and thank god it was the case, or else Luffy wouldn't have gotten trashed that badly in the war. If Croco was as strong as an Admiral, and then Luffy in the war getting trashed, would it make sense ?

The war has showed us what top dogs are worth, and even Luffy with his current strenght still isn't there yet. Before we didn't have that occasion to measure that, but with the war as a reference, it is possible.

 

[Uriel]

The war has showed us what top dogs are worth, and even Luffy with his current strenght still isn't there yet. Before we didn't have that occasion to measure that, but with the war as a reference, it is possible.

The war gave us a context, only that. It would be a different matter if Shanks would have fight. If the admirals would have been really unscratched and the marines winning at major advantage then why not confront him as well? To the point: Strength and levels in One Piece can only lead you so far. Most of the times, circumstances determines the winner. Devil Fruits and how they react to each other determines the winner. Even mental state determine the winners.

Big Mom could be in her 20% when fighting with a Luffy in his 100% and that could be enough for our favorite pirate to win the battle. And that doesn't make BM any less strong than the other Yonkous.

 

[nguqua]

Fried by Enel ? The guy was Enel's weakness, how can he be fried by him ?

Uh... that's kinda my point, isn't it? I apologize but it seems to me that you simply don't get it. The fact that the nature of Luffy's rubber power being the nemesis of Enel's devil fruit power is in itself a variable. One Piece's story so far hasn't been simple math of power levels. The fact that Enel's electricity being completely useless against Luffy debunks any theory based solely on linear perspective of "power level."

Ok then, suppose for a second that he will not face BM and will turn to be buddies (then why did Oda bother to make Luffy declare war on her, but nvm that), who would he face ? Pirates like Squardo ? No way, obviously too weak for Luffy, Kaidou ? How is that gonna happen since he wasn't even introduced yet ? BB, nope too early, Shanks ? They wouldn't fight and it is too early if Oda ever intend to make them fight, Akainu... Kizaru ? Too early to face an admiral for sure.

What makes you think that we have seen/heard about all the powerhouses in the New World? You may have missed this so I'll say it again - remember Shiki supposedly being an enemy in the New World but got turned into a movie instead?

 

[Zehahaha]

I'll formulate what I'm saying here just to avoid more confusions : For me, BM is strong, but not as strong as top dogs. It won't be easy for Luffy to beat her, he'll have a lot of troubles, I don't expect a Crocodile scenario here, but more a Lucci scenario in this case.

Why do I say that BM is weaker (not in the sense that Shanks would pwn her) ? To give Luffy a room to improve. If he's already as strong as top dogs, I fail too see how he'll improve, how the fights will be entertaining, how the whole crew will actually improve.

Why do I think that BM will fight against Luffy ? Luffy has been trained by Rayleigh, he's certainly a powerhouse, and Luffy's power increased a lot thanks to Rayleigh teachings, Oda here has 2 choices : Either make him fight normal crews in the NW, and fights will be shorts and just like Hodi vs Luffy completely one sided, either Oda will put him into a predicament a make him face one the powerhouses in the NW to give some interesting fights and a real sight for Luffy's strenght, to make again Luffy the variable that will change the balance (the same things happened with Crocodile's defeat which caused a series of events that lead us to the war which was the final chapter of the first part of OP).

Again, Oda will obviously go for the second choice, especially after the last (declaring a war, and then becoming buddies right after would make 0 sense), and for the sake of plot, and for keeping the story consistent, BM won't be as strong as top tiers.

So far, about the silver medalists thing, it was a single line mentioned by Crocodile, no more. And I don't think that any prisoner from level 6 will defeat a Yonkou, as it wouldn't make sense to : They were never shown, we don't their names, nada. Why would Oda suddenly make a prisonner defeat a character that is being defied by the hero ? That would be an ass pull in the same level of Kubo's ass pulls.

I remember Shiki, I also remember him being kicked by a gear 2 Luffy. I remember also that he probably was fooling around for 20 goddamn years doing nothing but scheming, I'm sorry, but even Lucci was more impressive than that old guy.

 

[kkck]

As far as the level six guys I would disagree a bit. Those guys were deemed by the world government powerful enough to make a country disappear at the very least. Each and every person there was a powerhouse and dangerous enough for even iva to not even consider releasing them even though they released with no problem a bunch of guys from level 5 and 4. Perhaps they are not individually as strong as the yonko however I would argue that each pirate there is at least strong enough to be a threat to any yonko. That is not something a measly level 5 prisoner would do. Level six prisoners would be guys with actual power that the world government for whatever reason managed to capture, at least that is what I think oda meant to tell us that arc. IMO it would not be strange that a level 6 prisoner will actually be not only a major enemy during an arc but also give current luffy a run for his money.

 

[Zehahaha]

As far as the level six guys I would disagree a bit. Those guys were deemed by the world government powerful enough to make a country disappear at the very least. Each and every person there was a powerhouse and dangerous enough for even iva to not even consider releasing them even though they released with no problem a bunch of guys from level 5 and 4. Perhaps they are not individually as strong as the yonko however I would argue that each pirate there is at least strong enough to be a threat to any yonko. That is not something a measly level 5 prisoner would do. Level six prisoners would be guys with actual power that the world government for whatever reason managed to capture, at least that is what I think oda meant to tell us that arc. IMO it would not be strange that a level 6 prisoner will actually be not only a major enemy during an arc but also give current luffy a run for his money.

Not arguing about their strenght, but more about the possibility of BM being taken off screen by some lvl 6 prisonner, that would be an asspull that even Kubo can't compare to.

They're certainly a threat to be reckoned with, but not like the Yonkou IMO.

 

[kkck]

I guess it depends. For a lone level 6 prisoner to kill big mom is unlikely to say the least but mostly because she has her entire crew behind her. Under an scenario where a prisoner manages to build a strong crew we have an entirely different scenario. I don't think it would be THAT weird that a prisoner there could actually match up to a yonko, it is just a matter of the circumstances being the right ones.

 

[Zehahaha]

I guess it depends. For a lone level 6 prisoner to kill big mom is unlikely to say the least but mostly because she has her entire crew behind her. Under an scenario where a prisoner manages to build a strong crew we have an entirely different scenario. I don't think it would be THAT weird that a prisoner there could actually match up to a yonko, it is just a matter of the circumstances being the right ones.

But out of nowhere without any hint, especially after the declaration of war, it would be a lame asspull.

 

[Sakazuki]

Big Mom not necessarily has to be defeated by a level 6 prisoner. Actually, it would be very interesting to see some of them joining her after their escape. If Luffy fight will fight her directly, so it would be good to see some really dangerous guys fighting with the others SHs.

 

[nguqua]

They were never shown, we don't their names, nada. Why would Oda suddenly make a prisonner defeat a character that is being defied by the hero ? That would be an ass pull in the same level of Kubo's ass pulls.

I wasn't thinking level 6 prisoners, but anyway, why do they have to defeat Big Mom in order to have an arc of their own?

I remember Shiki, I also remember him being kicked by a gear 2 Luffy. I remember also that he probably was fooling around for 20 goddamn years doing nothing but scheming, I'm sorry, but even Lucci was more impressive than that old guy.

I'm talking about the original Shiki that was intended to be Luffy's enemy in the New World. His character was absorbed into the movie. The timing of the movie could not possibly show Luffy after the 2 yrs timeskip so that's why Luffy had to defeat him prior to his 2 yrs training. The fact that Oda intended for someone like Shiki to become Luffy's enemy in the New World, who is neither a regular pirate like squardo, or current yonkou points to a strong possibility that some major powerhouses that we haven't met are waiting to have their arcs within future storyline. I apologize but I think it's too amusingly simplistic of a view to say that there are no character that falls inbetween someone like squardo and the yonkou.

 

[Sakazuki]

Spoiler: Latest Chapter

Now we know that a 300M bounty is just a office boy to BM pirates, what do you guys expect from now?

 

[Lutzu]

i don't think Pekoms its just an"office boy",him and Tamago will batlle with the strawhats when the time will come.

 

[BlackHair]

A office boy wouldn't get that much attention by Oda nor would BM (someone's who gives a shit for her weaker crewmates) remember his name. Also I don't even need to explain that bounty doesn't mean everything.

 

[Sakazuki]

A office boy wouldn't get that much attention by Oda nor would BM (someone's who gives a shit for her weaker crewmates) remember his name. Also I don't even need to explain that bounty doesn't mean everything.

Still, it means something. It means that he is dangerous to the WG.

I think that if he was so important (by this I don’t mean that he will be a Caribou like character) he would be collecting candies to her. Shanks didn’t sent Lucky Roo to take a message to WB, he just sent a rookie. His character could work like Blueno, been a warming-up to Luffy.

I don’t know if Pekons is a rookie, but I now the guy who was showed collecting candies is threat far above of many Shichibukais.

 

[Josef]

I mentioned it in the discussion thread for the newest chapter, but I will here because this is really interesting, Pecoms is based on Mock Turtle from Alice in Wonderland. I was planning to read this book again to see if it will help me predict any other Big Mom and their powers or looks, I think it was mentioned that they are themed form character form this book, now I think we can predict it more easily.

 

[Zehahaha]

I don’t know if Pekons is a rookie, but I now the guy who was showed collecting candies is threat far above of many Shichibukais.

How can you even know such a thing about a character who was shown in like 2 panels only ?
How can you know that he's more dangerous than any Shichibukai ?

And don't give me that whole introduction thing here, the guy wasn't even introduced like BM was...

 

[Sakazuki]

How can you even know such a thing about a character who was shown in like 2 panels only ?
How can you know that he's more dangerous than any Shichibukai ?

And don't give me that whole introduction thing here, the guy wasn't even introduced like BM was...

First, I love your panels.

Second, what I understood about bounties in the OP world is that they do not rank the strength, but how someone is dangerous to the WG. Robing is a good example to this. She had a high bounty when she was a child just because she was Ohara survivor and most important, because she could read poneglyphs. Said this, I can presume that the higher the bounty is the higher is the threat to the WG.

By the bounties that we know from the Shichibukai, there is just one above Pekons. Of course some of them must be. I’m not saying that Pekons is a powerhouse, that he a top dog, nothing about this. I’m saying that the guy must be dangerous to the WG exclusively by terms of bounty. I can be wrong, but I wouldn’t fix a high value on the head of someone if it wasn’t an important person to me.

 

[Zehahaha]

But saying he's dangerous than the Shichibukai, especially that we know that their bounties are frozen... To say that Pekom is more dangerous than the like of Mihawk & Doflamingo...

But yeah he's a top dog no doubt about it.

P.S : I love putting panels from time to time, it changes the mood somehow

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

But saying he's dangerous than the Shichibukai, especially that we know that their bounties are frozen... To say that Pekom is more dangerous than the like of Mihawk & Doflamingo...

But yeah he's a top dog no doubt about it.

P.S : I love putting panels from time to time, it changes the mood somehow

He's a mere fighter in BM's crew.