Shounen Bleach by Tite Kubo

[henhead]

Maybe Kubo hates the Paparazzi. Could it be they are taking pictures of him just moments before he gets up and bring out a can of whoopa$$?

 

[Delbi]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

Kubo's health is rapdly getting worse because as a mangaka he has one of the most unforgiving, hard jobs one can have ina developed country. Kishimoto claimed to sleep less than four hours every day and I doubt Kubo is faring much better. These guys have to worry about keeping their stuff fresh (when they can't even go outside or read/watch new stuff to keep their minds creative and sharp) under the menace of readers dropping their work (no work safety for most mangaka, who usually end up failing) and no social life worth the mention.

All of this so we can get their stuff for free.

Please show more respect. I seriously doubt any of us would do any better.

O give me a break they are both millionaires. I don't have much sympathy for these guys. I know Doctors and Lawyers who work much harder than they do and make much less. Let's not even get into the people who do manual labor for a living 12 hours a day.

They have a job to get these things out every week. They have assistants. It should get done.

I've bought volume releases of Naruto, Bleach and other manga when they get released so I don't want to hear that I'm not supporting them either. If they released Shounen Jump in English every week I'd probably buy it.

 

[henhead]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

O give me a break they are both millionaires. I don't have much sympathy for these guys. I know Doctors and Lawyers who work much harder than they do and make much less. Let's not even get into the people who do manual labor for a living 12 hours a day.

They have a job to get these things out every week. They have assistants. It should get done.

I've bought volume releases of Naruto, Bleach and other manga when they get released so I don't want to hear that I'm not supporting them either. If they released Shounen Jump in English every week I'd probably buy it.

Believe me when I say this: It gets old being rich. When being rich becomes an everyday part of your life, it possible for it to be overlooked just as easily as when folks from developing nations such as Nepal look at US citizens and be like, "You Americans are so lucky! You have so much food" and were like, "....meh..." I believe it's the same same. When you have everything money has to offer, life itself could become a bore. Buying a brand-new playstation 4 as a rich guy wouldn't give as much joy as a person from a lower-class saving up his hard-earned cash to finally buy it himself (at least for me personally, this doesn't go for everyone since everyone is different in general imo). The difference to me seems tremendous. I read and see lots of rich folks try to use their money for power (running for office) or other personal fulfillment (charity, love) because money can't buy everything (i state this as fact). I believe the rich have a dilemna separate from the poor that is just as frustrating which is a very broad topic in itself.

In Kubo's case, he has millions of fans demanding him to sit at his desk and worry about their expectations. Imagine if you know for a fact that there a few groups of hardcore fans expecting you to fulfill their expectations or else they literally want to kill you. Sure, it's not manual labor in coal mines, but stress isn't solely based on how labor intensive it is. Just because some of us drive a Benz E-class and work on the top floor of a skyscraper doesn't mean they have no worries in this world. I believe, to a large extent, that they just have a different type of stress that a lot of people in the lower class wouldn't understand. Celebrities commit suicide and go through depressions too (look at Owen Wilson for example who is one of many millionaire celebrities going through depression. Mel Gibson too).

I hope Kubo lives long enough to finish Bleach before he kicks the bucket (just kidding! Long live Kubo!).

 

[NoOneInParticular]

Oh my God.

To think this chair would sustain a point blank Kurohitsugi. It's a wonderful chair.

 

[exacta]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

O give me a break they are both millionaires. I don't have much sympathy for these guys. I know Doctors and Lawyers who work much harder than they do and make much less. Let's not even get into the people who do manual labor for a living 12 hours a day.

They have a job to get these things out every week. They have assistants. It should get done.

I've bought volume releases of Naruto, Bleach and other manga when they get released so I don't want to hear that I'm not supporting them either. If they released Shounen Jump in English every week I'd probably buy it.

I don't think you understand. These guys work crazy hours. I don't know about Kubo but Oda only sleeps 3 hours a day. I've worked in a big law firm and I don't think a single attorney worked THAT much, especially not every day. Your also not thinking of the incredible amount of pressure these guys have to deal with. They're also entitled to a vacation or a day off, because they are. Everyone who works full time should be getting those. So it would be extremely hypocritical and entitled of us to complain. Plus they basically have no free time and the pay is only good if your extremely popular. I don't know that much but I hear Bakuman does a good job of explaining what it's like.

 

[Exodi]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

O give me a break they are both millionaires. I don't have much sympathy for these guys. I know Doctors and Lawyers who work much harder than they do and make much less. Let's not even get into the people who do manual labor for a living 12 hours a day.

They have a job to get these things out every week. They have assistants. It should get done.

I've bought volume releases of Naruto, Bleach and other manga when they get released so I don't want to hear that I'm not supporting them either. If they released Shounen Jump in English every week I'd probably buy it.

But you don't, so.....what's your point.

I'm sorry, but this is so incredibly entitled....

I own multiple volumes of Bleach as well, but I'd be crazy to think that I somehow am entitled to a free version of the newest chapter every single week.
Even crazier to not have any respect or sympathy for the multiple people involved in providing said chapter, including but not limited to:

1. Kubo
2. His assistants
3. The magazine that Bleach is serialized in
4. The stores that carry the magazine
5. The people who get the volumes for Editing, even though that's supposed to be illegal
6. The people who scan, clean, and translate. For free, mind you. I've never had to pay Mangastream for anything.
7. The people who host the websites that the Edited Mangas are posted on

You can't say "they have a job...." and then say something like what I bolded.
If the magazine takes a break, then it takes a break. If Kubo gets sick, well then damn, let's hope he gets better.

It's always like this when it comes to people and consuming music or art.

Doctors and lawyers have jobs that are fundamentally and extremely different from an artist. To compare them is both unfair and facetious.
Most people actually would say the opposite of what you say (i.e. they wouldn't be sympathetic) because they shell out tons of money typically for the services of a doctor or a lawyer. With either of these professions, the service is expected and the level of entitlement that exists is higher because doctors and lawyers almost literally are dealing with life or death situations. Not to mention they money they typically make.

At the end of the day, manga isn't life or death, nor should it be.
So, in that regard, why in the world would I not feel sympathetic if someone gets sick or needs a break from working ridiculous hours?

Side note: Drawing pretty pictures actually isn't that easy. The only reason I'm typing such a long post is because I know this personally and I would personally slap someone if they said to me:


"Hey, I've bought some of your stuff. But don't expect me to buy a new chapter every week, bro. You're already super rich. But don't forget to pump that shit out that I read for free anyway. That's your job. Snap snap."

Kubo though probably appreciates that you buy his work, though. But holy damn if that's not the rudest, most self-entitled thing I have ever seen.

I'm sorry, this just ticked me off.

 

[ninjabot]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

It's always like this when it comes to people and consuming music or art.

I agree with most of your post. I don't pay for manga, so I don't feel like griping about Kubo taking so many sick days is fair to him. But I don't feel the least bit bad about not paying for someone's music. Taylor Swift's song "Shake It Off" made like 394,000 bucks every month because songs on Spotify make from 0.006 dollars to 0.084 dollars each time it's streamed, every time it's streamed...per person using Spotify. But that apparently wasn't enough for her.

I don't feel entitled to her music on Spotify, but I concur with Delbi's "Give me a fucking break you whiny privileged cunt." sentiment.

I own multiple volumes of Bleach as well, but I'd be crazy to think that I somehow am entitled to a free version of the newest chapter every single week.

Which isn't what he said or even implied.

He's not complaining that he's mad about missing out on a chapter because Kubo takes too many sick days. He's annoyed because someone who's rich is taking so much time off. He was simply annoyed with the fact that there are people that work harder than Kubo, get paid less than Kubo, and don't take as many days off of work as he does. I work 12 hour shifts and sleep 4 hours a day and am often made to come in on my off days for less than Kubo. I get 2 sick days a YEAR, after which I'm terminated if I'm out for any reason whatsoever.

And THOSE sick days come out of my vacation time. Which is 3 days out of the year. So yeah. If I get sick twice then I get no days off ever for an entire year save for the one vacation day. Fuck going on a weekend trip to the beach. My vacation days consist of staying home and arguing with people in the Naruto forum.

Would you have preferred if he compared Kubo to a professional athlete? Their jobs are just as frivolous as a mangaka's. The only reason he mentioned that he actually paid for some of the manga chapters is because he was pre-empting people that were gonna claim "you don't get to complain about Kubo being lazy unless you pay for his shit."

Seems he was right!

 

[mangah]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

well , IMO they just only draw important panels and just write other stuffs ... drawing everything , make things complicated and story slow ...

I just begin to read manga because my English was bad and I couldn't read novels ....

....

about bleach : some of member could summary some of chapters in 1 or 2 line but Kubo was wasting his times to draw it ...

 

[Schabrak]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

Hey, psht, but can you keep your petty lifes out of the chapter discussion please. When this start to become a dick-measuring contest. It's not Kubo's problem that the US got such f'ed up employee rights with little to no vacation. ninjabot, who but yourself chose to take such a job that would only leave you with 4 hours of sleep, which isn't healthy nor maintanable to begin with.

Exacta, those are very old numbers, which could and probably are differing from mangaka to mangaka, and have changed definitively for Oda too.

I've bought volume releases of Naruto, Bleach and other manga when they get released so I don't want to hear that I'm not supporting them either. If they released Shounen Jump in English every week I'd probably buy it.

It's there and it only costs 26$ a year, nothing compared to the original version, with less titles and still almost all popular series of the magazine. The old execuse doesn't really work anymore and even if you don't read it, it's a way to support further expansion for official english translations for like half a dollar an issue.

OT: Sad to see him missing, shouldn't take so many outdoor pics and rest some more. :P

 

[ninjabot]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

Hey, psht, but can you keep your petty lifes out of the chapter discussion please. When this start to become a dick-measuring contest. It's not Kubo's problem that the US got such f'ed up employee rights with little to no vacation. ninjabot, who but yourself chose to take such a job that would only leave you with 4 hours of sleep, which isn't healthy nor maintanable to begin with.

I'm not sure you know what a dick measuring contest is. A dick measuring contest is when guys argue over which one of them is more impressive in certain facet, whether it's who has the nicer car, hotter girlfriend, or an ACTUAL dick size comparison. No one's doing that here. And it's not even like we're off topic because we're in the Bleach discussion thread, discussing the state of this week's chapter and how it makes us feel. Which obviously leads to opinions on the mangaka.

Some of us are of the "Lots of other people do it so Kubo should be able to as well. He's just fucking drawing." opinion.

Some of us are of the "But drawing's haaaaard guys!" opinion.

As for who but myself chose the horrible work conditions I did? I dunno... how about all of the 300 or so employees working for the same company as me? And the millions across the country working 12 hour shifts in factories just the same? Thing is, I knew the deal before I took the job, and still took it (who the hell's gonna pay my bills while I'm being a picky entitled twat?), so I don't get to complain.

Kubo knew the deal before taking HIS job. He doesn't get to complain either. Unless of course he was going above and beyond what was expected of him. Then it'd be legit. I genuinely hope he gets better if he's actually sick. I don't however agree with all the implications that he's working in some kind of morose dungeon-like sweatshop kind of condition.

Also, chill on calling people's lives petty. I may have called Taylor Swift a cunt, but I never implied her life is less important than anyone else's.

 

[NoOneInParticular]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

Not gonna lie, I don't see what the big deal is with Kubo having the odd week off. Not to say his job is the hardest, most dangerous, terrible thing in the world, but it's just common decency to let an employee take some time off in the year. Someone recently told me that in the states, you can generally expect your first 3 years to come without any sort of decent time off or benefits, which is bollocks, but doesn't really mean anyone else should feel bad for having less ridiculous working conditions.
Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth here, just saying. It's always a shame not to get a chapter, I mean, Bleach is ingrained into my weekly routine at this stage, lol. But it's nothing worth raging at Kubo or anyone else about. The guy's either ill or feels like a break. A huge portion of the human race is starving, doesn't mean I should be feeling terrible for having dinner every day. Bit of a dickhead analogy, but you get what I mean.

This conversation's getting serious...

 

[exacta]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/dai...kes-1-week-break-due-to-author-illness/.87177 He was sick. Can we stop comparing our lives and jobs to people who write weekly manga yet lol? If you think being creative and drawing is easy then go do it and shaddup already. Sheesh.

 

[Delbi]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

But you don't, so.....what's your point.

I'm sorry, but this is so incredibly entitled....

I own multiple volumes of Bleach as well, but I'd be crazy to think that I somehow am entitled to a free version of the newest chapter every single week.
Even crazier to not have any respect or sympathy for the multiple people involved in providing said chapter, including but not limited to:

1. Kubo
2. His assistants
3. The magazine that Bleach is serialized in
4. The stores that carry the magazine
5. The people who get the volumes for Editing, even though that's supposed to be illegal
6. The people who scan, clean, and translate. For free, mind you. I've never had to pay Mangastream for anything.
7. The people who host the websites that the Edited Mangas are posted on

You can't say "they have a job...." and then say something like what I bolded.
If the magazine takes a break, then it takes a break. If Kubo gets sick, well then damn, let's hope he gets better.

It's always like this when it comes to people and consuming music or art.

Doctors and lawyers have jobs that are fundamentally and extremely different from an artist. To compare them is both unfair and facetious.
Most people actually would say the opposite of what you say (i.e. they wouldn't be sympathetic) because they shell out tons of money typically for the services of a doctor or a lawyer. With either of these professions, the service is expected and the level of entitlement that exists is higher because doctors and lawyers almost literally are dealing with life or death situations. Not to mention they money they typically make.

At the end of the day, manga isn't life or death, nor should it be.
So, in that regard, why in the world would I not feel sympathetic if someone gets sick or needs a break from working ridiculous hours?

Side note: Drawing pretty pictures actually isn't that easy. The only reason I'm typing such a long post is because I know this personally and I would personally slap someone if they said to me:


"Hey, I've bought some of your stuff. But don't expect me to buy a new chapter every week, bro. You're already super rich. But don't forget to pump that shit out that I read for free anyway. That's your job. Snap snap."

Kubo though probably appreciates that you buy his work, though. But holy damn if that's not the rudest, most self-entitled thing I have ever seen.

I'm sorry, this just ticked me off.

I think you failed to understand what I wrote. Look at the post I responded it too.

"He has one of the most unforgiving, hard jobs one can have ina developed country. Kishimoto claimed to sleep less than four hours every day and I doubt Kubo is faring much better. These guys have to worry about keeping their stuff fresh (when they can't even go outside or read/watch new stuff to keep their minds creative and sharp) under the menace of readers dropping their work (no work safety for most mangaka, who usually end up failing) and no social life worth the mention."

No job is unforgiving when you reap the benefits these artists do from it. Don't give me that shit that "hey money isn't everything". If wasn't everything, and they were so stressed, they'd quit. Athletes have done, so have movie stars, etc. But you don't see these artists quitting. Why? Because the money obviously is worth it to them.

I have no problem with the guy getting sick and needing time off. But you have to be fucking kidding me if you think a millionaire artist with multiple assistants and a huge bankroll can't somehow manage to get 15-18 panels of art out in a weeks time. With the resources these guys have these chapters should be done weeks ahead of time. They are short chapters, that aren't colored and it's not as if anything is overly complicated in them outside of some drawings. They are PROFESSIONALS, meaning they should be able to do the work faster than most people.

Also, there is no indication that they work the hours they work. I'd love to see a link to an interview claiming these guys work this slave camp like hours that some suggest they do. Because there is no indication whatsoever that that is the case. Even if some artists do work that much, there is no proof that has been shown that the premiere artists do.

The point of my post was I have no pity for these guys because they are millionaires, and their job is do something they are supposed to love, which is draw art.

You called me entitled? Where the hell did I say I was entitled to a free chapter every week? If I had the chance to buy the shit I would, I have no problem doing that. But, considering this a Japanese magazine and I live in America, I can't. So I read it for free just like you do and then buy it when it becomes available to me. If you want to beat your chest and accuse me of being entitled then do the "noble" thing and don't read the illegal copies. If you're not going to do that, then don't try and put me down for something you do yourself just because I pointed out that these guys aren't child slave workers that we should pity.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

It's there and it only costs 26$ a year, nothing compared to the original version, with less titles and still almost all popular series of the magazine. The old excuse doesn't really work anymore and even if you don't read it, it's a way to support further expansion for official english translations for like half a dollar an issue.

Where is there an English release of Shouen jump that I can buy for $26 dollars a year. Because if there is I've been wasting a lot of money buying volume releases in English for individual series.

 

[Firebird0ne]

Is Hakuteiken having a bad day? I say nothing for months, then try to join a convo to have it snapped up and shoved off a second later. Sheesh...Going back to silent mode. It's safer.

Hope Kubo feels better soon.

 

[Hakuteiken]

Delbi, I think you don't get Exodi's point, either, or rather, you bring an entirely different aspect by constantly saying "They are millionaires". So what is the point about it? Being a millionaire means you have to do what other people think you can do? I don't see how being a millionaire or a billionaire necessarily changes your working conditions in the slightest.
I mean, it's not something that you have to show pity for, but rather, appreciate the effort that these people are actually working hard for the content being put out there (Not saying you do or you don't, simply pointing that out), and in a significantly tight schedule, as well. Professional or not, being an artist is not a child's play, nor the dream job people seem to think it is from outside perspective.

Is Hakuteiken having a bad day? I say nothing for months, then try to join a convo to have it snapped up and shoved off a second later. Sheesh...Going back to silent mode. It's safer.

Hope Kubo feels better soon.

Hm? I checked and didn't see any of your posts as deleted, since you have no recent posts, actually. Other deleted posts were restored to this thread to keep the chapter thread at least related to the story rather than a general discussion about being a mangaka. I don't see why I should be having a bad day for that reason.
Anyways, please PM me if you want to discuss it any further.

 

[Delbi]

Delbi, I think you don't get Exodi's point, either, or rather, you bring an entirely different aspect by constantly saying "They are millionaires". So what is the point about it? Being a millionaire means you have to do what other people think you can do? I don't see how being a millionaire or a billionaire necessarily changes your working conditions in the slightest.
I mean, it's not something that you have to show pity for, but rather, appreciate the effort that these people are actually working hard for the content being put out there (Not saying you do or you don't, simply pointing that out), and in a significantly tight schedule, as well. Professional or not, being an artist is not a child's play, nor the dream job people seem to think it is from outside perspective.

The "working conditions" were my point. There is nothing to suggest Kubo is treated like some slave chained to a desk and never seen the light of day. Furthermore, as a premiere artist he has multiple assistants and probably has top of the line equipment and what not to make his life easier.

With that all in mind, I fail to understand how these manga would suddenly stop all production just because the guy is sick. Is he sick for an entire week? There's also a difference between being sick or actually have a legit serious illness. If he has a serious illness, fine then. But the idea that his "stress" is causing him to become so sick he can't work is laughable.

I also take issue with the people saying that a manga artist like Kubo is pressured to release stuff every week, as if their life depends on it because if they don't the manga will fail. Bleach is one of the most profitable and popular manga out there. Anime, Movies, merchandise, etc. all point to it not losing any popularity or profitability if a chapter isn't released or isn't up fans expectations.

To me, I just wont' sob for a guy because he's "worked to death" when that isn't the case. If he's sick, he's sick. But don't expect me to pity a millionaire artist or agree with the BS excuses people make for them. And that has NOTHING to do with not appreciating the skill and work they put in. But they became artists likely because they love what they do. If the money isn't worth it, they should simply stop what they are doing.

 

[Sky Render]

The "working conditions" were my point. There is nothing to suggest Kubo is treated like some slave chained to a desk and never seen the light of day. Furthermore, as a premiere artist he has multiple assistants and probably has top of the line equipment and what not to make his life easier.

With that all in mind, I fail to understand how these manga would suddenly stop all production just because the guy is sick. Is he sick for an entire week? There's also a difference between being sick or actually have a legit serious illness. If he has a serious illness, fine then. But the idea that his "stress" is causing him to become so sick he can't work is laughable.

I also take issue with the people saying that a manga artist like Kubo is pressured to release stuff every week, as if their life depends on it because if they don't the manga will fail. Bleach is one of the most profitable and popular manga out there. Anime, Movies, merchandise, etc. all point to it not losing any popularity or profitability if a chapter isn't released or isn't up fans expectations.

To me, I just wont' sob for a guy because he's "worked to death" when that isn't the case. If he's sick, he's sick. But don't expect me to pity a millionaire artist or agree with the BS excuses people make for them. And that has NOTHING to do with not appreciating the skill and work they put in. But they became artists likely because they love what they do. If the money isn't worth it, they should simply stop what they are doing.

I was gonna make a counter argument but seriously, what's the point.

 

[Exodi]

Re: Bleach 623 Discussion / 624 Predictions

I had a long post in response to Delbi but decided it wasn't worth it.
I think we all are just suffering from Bleach withdrawal.

 

[Delbi]

I was gonna make a counter argument but seriously, what's the point.

Do you have actual proof that Kubo works like a slave and that because of this work he's sick? If you do, I'd love to see it and will gladly admit I was wrong.

I don't think any of you bothered to read the post I responded to and understood the context of what I was saying. Maybe I was a bit brash, but no one has actually refuted anything I've said. I've simply heard I'm an entitled idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

I took issue with the fact that someone claimed he worked like a slave and it was because of this stress and work that he was sick.

I also took issue with the fact that he's a millionaire and as others have stated he has assistants (and if he doesn't then he and his publisher are idiots), meaning, even if he does get sick, it shouldn't halt the production of his manga. If Japanese manga artists care so much about public opinion and pleasing their fans (as another user mentioned) then these chapters should be ready for release BEFORE HAND, and there should be contingency plans in place to make sure publication dates are met in case someone gets sick.

I don't disagree that he isn't entitled to time off. I also don't dispute that he should take off when he's sick. But give me a break with these sob stories about why I should feel sorry for him and how he is so over worked. And screw anyone who wants to call me entitled for reading online copies when you're on this website because you do the same thing.

 

[Sky Render]

Do you have actual proof that Kubo works like a slave and that because of this work he's sick? If you do, I'd love to see it and will gladly admit I was wrong.

I don't think any of you bothered to read the post I responded to and understood the context of what I was saying. Maybe I was a bit brash, but no one has actually refuted anything I've said. I've simply heard I'm an entitled idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

I took issue with the fact that someone claimed he worked like a slave and it was because of this stress and work that he was sick.

I also took issue with the fact that he's a millionaire and as others have stated he has assistants (and if he doesn't then he and his publisher are idiots), meaning, even if he does get sick, it shouldn't halt the production of his manga. If Japanese manga artists care so much about public opinion and pleasing their fans (as another user mentioned) then these chapters should be ready for release BEFORE HAND, and there should be contingency plans in place to make sure publication dates are met in case someone gets sick.

I don't disagree that he isn't entitled to time off. I also don't dispute that he should take off when he's sick. But give me a break with these sob stories about why I should feel sorry for him and how he is so over worked. And screw anyone who wants to call me entitled for reading online copies when you're on this website because you do the same thing.

You might wanna look into not just what you wrote, but into the implications of what you wrote. You, as a matter of fact, do come across as an entitled, insesitive asshat.

As adults, we kinda sorta have to cope with the fact that the implications of what we say is half the message sent. It's called "awareness of environment" and it's a vital survival tool.

He does work like hell and if he's sick is totally because of a job whose average schedule and workload should be banned in any decent country. Kubo is hardly the one that works the hardest in the industry (apparently Kishimoto's schedule was even more insane than usual), but writing that he should cope with it because he 's rich just because I and some other people showed concern and appreciation is just mean.

I know he's getting a better deal than, say, a corporate bitch in a huge lawyer firm or millions of people in Africa for that matter. That's a given. But this is a Bleach forum and it's perfectly reasonable to feel sorry for a dude whose health we know for a fact is getting shitty because of what he does.

No one is attacking you, but the way and context you express opinions we don't agree with.