Fantasy Bluenote VS Silver

[Seven777]

How did Gray beat Silver fair and square when Silver let off Gray many times and allowed him to stand again ? If you're fighting with me , and you're down and I have the opportunity to hit you , I will. If I don't that means I'm not fighting seriously. Silver was Gray's counter sure , but I'm pointing out that you can't say Silver didn't go easy on Gray. It may be an unfair fight for Gray , but Silver DID go easy on him.

Again , remember Natsu had an extreme difficulty battle against Jackal. So we know how he will fare if he and some other demon were to battle till death. Natsu defeated Jackal extreme difficulty. We know Mard was toying with Natsu first before Gray arrived. He started fighting seriously when he went into his etherious form. And again , as I said , we don't know how long will Natsu last unless we do a battle till death. Silver is stronger than Jackal.

Even if you want to apply another logic , then well. Silver's attack and defense and health are even higher than Kyouka , who was dominating Erza throughout their fight. Erza needed PIS powerup to compete with her , Kyouka was destroying Erza otherwise. And during that time , Erza was stronger than Natsu. So it makes sense Silver can defeat Natsu too.

Silver is Jura level because he is slightly above Kyouka , who was destroying Erza without PiS. I consider that Laxus level.

Simply clashing fists two times with Gildarts doesn't make Bluenote Gildarts/Jura level. We know Gildarts still hadn't used his serious attack , because that was the attack which oneshotted Bluenote in the end. Makarov saw Jura's strongest attack , and realised that compares to Gildarts' strongest attack. The attack which Gildarts used at the end might be his strongest or might not be ( imo it wasn't ), but we know that if Jura uses his strongest attack against Bluenote it will put him out of commission. The precise fact that Gildarts oneshotted Bluenote means Bluenote can't withstand Gildarts' stronger attacks. And I see Laxus and Natsu in a similar predicament. Natsu might be able to fight with Laxus normally , but if he uses his stronger attacks , Natsu will lose. So Bluenote = GMG/ Tartaros Natsu.

Natsu confronted Gildarts sometime before the Alvarez arc , because he wanted to see how strong he had become after his training. Gildarts was also fully healed from his injuried from Acnologia by then. So no , that's Alvarez Gildarts.

Comparing Tartaros Natsu to Bluenote is perfectly fine because you don't understand the power creep between the 7 years. And you guys unnecessarily inflate the 1 year timeskip and forget about the 7 year timeskip. If I'm to trust your word , then according to calculations , Natsu should've become more than 12 times stronger than at Tartaros. And I don't buy it , considering Jellal's progress. The guy pretty much kept up with FT during the power creep . And remember , he had 4 years to train during the 1st timeskip as compared to only 1 year to train during the second timeskip. Although we know Jellal's weaker than Laxus , he's still in the ballpark of Natsu , non PiS Erza , etc. So the progress of Natsu and Erza should be in the same proportion as Jellal. And somehow , you're saying the progress Jellal made in one year dwarfs the progress made by him in four years by more than three times. I don't buy it.

All bad guys do that, in fact good guys do it too. It's a rare character that'll attack their opponent while they're down. And Silver going easy on Gray doesn't make the fight unfair, not when Silver had an overwhelming advantage to begin with.

And Natsu still tanked shit from Mard when he was in that Etherious form, I have no reason to believe Silver's offense would be enough to put Natsu down after that, and his defense/speed aren't all that different from Tempester's. So like I said, Natsu has a decent chance at beating Silver. He may win, he may lose, but he's at least a decent match. Tempester is stronger than Jackal too, Natsu was still overwhelming him. Against Jackal Natsu underestimated him, when it came down to a head on fight, Natsu only needed a single LFD attack to put down Etherious Jackal.

So? Natsu would have a decent chance against Erza too.

I don't, I consider Silver Erza level, which is below Laxus.

It means as much as Makarov's comment on Jura's strength. Makarov said that Jura would be a match for Gildart's, Bluenote was a match for Gildart's. I don't have either Jura or Bluenote as Gildart's equal, merely strong enough to match him in a fight.

And Tartaros Natsu obviously isn't Bluenote level, or anywhere close to it. Power creep is irrelevant, we literally saw Tartaros Natsu fight GIldart's and Bluenote did significantly better than he did. Bluenote is a clean tier above Tartaros Natsu. It was before Alvarez. Alvarez Natsu has long hair, Alvarez Gildart's has a new mechanical arm and leg, none of this was in the chapter. Gildart's was still in bandages when Natsu fought him, so he's still as weak.

 

[atlantisreturns]

All bad guys do that, in fact good guys do it too. It's a rare character that'll attack their opponent while they're down. And Silver going easy on Gray doesn't make the fight unfair, not when Silver had an overwhelming advantage to begin with.

And Natsu still tanked shit from Mard when he was in that Etherious form, I have no reason to believe Silver's offense would be enough to put Natsu down after that, and his defense/speed aren't all that different from Tempester's. So like I said, Natsu has a decent chance at beating Silver. He may win, he may lose, but he's at least a decent match. Tempester is stronger than Jackal too, Natsu was still overwhelming him. Against Jackal Natsu underestimated him, when it came down to a head on fight, Natsu only needed a single LFD attack to put down Etherious Jackal.

So? Natsu would have a decent chance against Erza too.

I don't, I consider Silver Erza level, which is below Laxus.

It means as much as Makarov's comment on Jura's strength. Makarov said that Jura would be a match for Gildart's, Bluenote was a match for Gildart's. I don't have either Jura or Bluenote as Gildart's equal, merely strong enough to match him in a fight.

And Tartaros Natsu obviously isn't Bluenote level, or anywhere close to it. Power creep is irrelevant, we literally saw Tartaros Natsu fight GIldart's and Bluenote did significantly better than he did. Bluenote is a clean tier above Tartaros Natsu. It was before Alvarez. Alvarez Natsu has long hair, Alvarez Gildart's has a new mechanical arm and leg, none of this was in the chapter. Gildart's was still in bandages when Natsu fought him, so he's still as weak.

They do it that means they're going easy. At least I consider that going easy. Once , okay. I can may be consider twice. But not more than that. If they've multiple chances of finishing the opponent and they don't , which means they're going easy and not fighting properly. E.g. Larcade with Sting , Acnologia with 7 DS , Zeref with Natsu , Dimaria stripping people's clothes , etc. That's called Plot Induced Stupidity.

Natsu still got heavily damaged against Jackal , if it was like you said he should've shrugged off all of Jackal's attacks. Durability doesn't change whether you underestimate the opponent or not. We don't know how hard was Mard going when he hit Natsu , but we do know that after Jackal went all out , Natsu couldn't tank that damage head on. Because Natsu underestimated Jackal we now know what are Natsu's pure durability stats , because he only tanked in that fight.

Natsu would have a decent chance against Erza , but my point is Kyouka > Erza at that point of time. Erza needed PIS to get out of that fight.

Okay , if you think Tartaros Gray was Silver level , then what was the need of Gray taking Silver's residual MP to finish Mard Geer ? Why did he need his power ? Why was Silver's power that he inherited in the form of a tattoo ( which was temporary ) stronger than his own power ?

Question : Do you consider someone like Wahl ( without Etherion ) to be a match for healthy Laxus if he can oneshot him with Red Lightning ? Pretty sure Laxus can't do anything much to Wahl with his regular attacks , but his serious top move can oneshot him. Being a match for someone means the fight should at least be high difficulty. If Bluenote gets oneshot by Gildarts' serious move which means he isn't a match for him.

Okay the Tartaros Natsu one I concede I didn't think about it that much.

 

[Seven777]

They do it that means they're going easy. At least I consider that going easy. Once , okay. I can may be consider twice. But not more than that. If they've multiple chances of finishing the opponent and they don't , which means they're going easy and not fighting properly. E.g. Larcade with Sting , Acnologia with 7 DS , Zeref with Natsu , Dimaria stripping people's clothes , etc. That's called Plot Induced Stupidity.

Natsu still got heavily damaged against Jackal , if it was like you said he should've shrugged off all of Jackal's attacks. Durability doesn't change whether you underestimate the opponent or not. We don't know how hard was Mard going when he hit Natsu , but we do know that after Jackal went all out , Natsu couldn't tank that damage head on. Because Natsu underestimated Jackal we now know what are Natsu's pure durability stats , because he only tanked in that fight.

Natsu would have a decent chance against Erza , but my point is Kyouka > Erza at that point of time. Erza needed PIS to get out of that fight.

Okay , if you think Tartaros Gray was Silver level , then what was the need of Gray taking Silver's residual MP to finish Mard Geer ? Why did he need his power ? Why was Silver's power that he inherited in the form of a tattoo ( which was temporary ) stronger than his own power ?

Question : Do you consider someone like Wahl ( without Etherion ) to be a match for healthy Laxus if he can oneshot him with Red Lightning ? Pretty sure Laxus can't do anything much to Wahl with his regular attacks , but his serious top move can oneshot him. Being a match for someone means the fight should at least be high difficulty. If Bluenote gets oneshot by Gildarts' serious move which means he isn't a match for him.

Okay the Tartaros Natsu one I concede I didn't think about it that much.

No, they do it, which means they're stupid, alternatively because Mashima needs to insert dialogue to make the fight interesting. Sure, PiS, it's a thing, doesn't make me think better of Silver.

We know Mard literally said he was feeling rage against Natsu, and that he was in his Etherious form. That's enough for me. As for Jackal, Natsu doesn't need to shrug off his attacks, he just needs to keep getting up. Durability and endurance are separate things, but the end result is all that matters.

PiS doesn't change the fact that Erza beat Kyoka's ass. People give Erza a lot of shit, and for good reason, her feats are still feats though. Excuses like PoF or PiS means nothing to me. Natsu having a decent chance against Erza means he has a decent chance against Silver.

Is that a serious question? Gray needed Silver's power because he needed DeS magic to take down Mard.
Gray combined Silver's DeS magic with his own Ice Make magic, that's why it's stronger than his regular magic. It's the fusion of his and his dad's power.

I consider Wahl with Etherion no match for Laxus. You could give Wahl 10 seconds to charge the attack with Laxus staying still and waiting, and I'd still say Laxus wins low diff. Bluenote isn't immune to Gildarts' regular attacks, so you analogy doesn't really sway me. Makarov said Jura is a match for Gildarts, Bluenote literally matched Gildarts at the start of their battle, as far as I'm concerned Jura's hype is an even match for Bluenote's feat.

 

[atlantisreturns]

No, they do it, which means they're stupid, alternatively because Mashima needs to insert dialogue to make the fight interesting. Sure, PiS, it's a thing, doesn't make me think better of Silver.

We know Mard literally said he was feeling rage against Natsu, and that he was in his Etherious form. That's enough for me. As for Jackal, Natsu doesn't need to shrug off his attacks, he just needs to keep getting up. Durability and endurance are separate things, but the end result is all that matters.

PiS doesn't change the fact that Erza beat Kyoka's ass. People give Erza a lot of shit, and for good reason, her feats are still feats though. Excuses like PoF or PiS means nothing to me. Natsu having a decent chance against Erza means he has a decent chance against Silver.

Is that a serious question? Gray needed Silver's power because he needed DeS magic to take down Mard.
Gray combined Silver's DeS magic with his own Ice Make magic, that's why it's stronger than his regular magic. It's the fusion of his and his dad's power.

I consider Wahl with Etherion no match for Laxus. You could give Wahl 10 seconds to charge the attack with Laxus staying still and waiting, and I'd still say Laxus wins low diff. Bluenote isn't immune to Gildarts' regular attacks, so you analogy doesn't really sway me. Makarov said Jura is a match for Gildarts, Bluenote literally matched Gildarts at the start of their battle, as far as I'm concerned Jura's hype is an even match for Bluenote's feat.

I think this is where we differ. I don't consider PIS , I consider what the person has been consistently showing so far. If one person is overwhelming his opponent in a fight and letting him off again and again ( like now ) , then that counts as that the person who's overwhelming the other person is stronger. Because only then will we understand who's really stronger. Nobody says Batman is stronger than Superman just because Batman wins the fight.

Yes , and the end result was that Natsu wasn't able to get up in the end after the battle with Jackal. He was in a miserable condition. This is Natsu's condition after fighting with Jackal :

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My example is better than yours because 1) We don't know how much force Mard was putting behind those attacks. Like , Acno couldn't KO Wendy with his attacks.
2) Mard had exhausted himself a lot after casting Alegria ( look up on the stats card , Alegria consumes 5000 points which is ×5 more than Memento Mori ) , which is a very heavy spell. Which must have significantly nerfed his stats.

Unlike Mard's case , Natsu's durability doesn't change like that. And we know Jackal was in his optimum condition as well. So we can directly scale Natsu's durability in accordance to the damage Jackal dishes out.

As I said , my views on PIS differ from yours. In my eyes , since Kyouka was the dominant one and was overwhelming Erza for almost 95% of the fight and let go of many chances to kill her due to PIS , Kyouka's the stronger one. We're checking whose stronger here , we don't want stupid character to be a hindrance.

Nah I mean Silver gave Gray his residual power like Igneel gave Natsu his power. DeS is like FDKM , it can function with Gray's own power , but at that moment he was using Silver's power to fight with DeS.

Well may be that's your opinion. In my view , since Etherion is a country leveling attack which has been proven to have destroyed a country , he can destroy not only Laxus but even Fiore with Etherion. But okay , let's not go on a tangent.
Dude. Okay , I will give you give you another instance. Ikusa Tsunagi no sold Natsu's base punches and forced Natsu to use his FDK demolition fist ( the strongest attack he can muster excluding modes he can't access willingly like DF , FoE , etc. ) . Does that mean Ikusa Tsunagi is a match for Natsu ? Historia Serena clashed with Gildarts , traded punches and even managed to injure him little before being oneshotted by Gildarts' serious strong attack. Does that mean Historia Serena is a match for Gildarts ?

No. If you get oneshotted by an attack , regardless of whether the attack is the opponent's strongest move or not , you aren't a match for the other person. I'm sure you would have never said Historia Serena to be a match for Gildarts , you're playing blind because GH are probably your favourite villains. When Makarov said Jura was a match for Gildarts he must've seen Jura's strongest attack , and compared that to Gildarts' strongest attack. Bluenote wasn't a match for Gildarts. If you want to understand how you sound try saying Historia Serena is a match for Gildarts. Because if your logic is to be considered saying so isn't a stretch.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Bluenote was a match for Gildarts. Gildarts was bloodlusted at the beginning of the fight.

people trying to say that Gildarts no diffs Bluenote are kidding themselves.

 

[Vis]

I really don’t see Silver contending with Bluenote lol.

If a steel ball thrown by Gray is enough to pierce a hole through him, Bluenote’s blows would literally tear him apart.

 

[Seven777]

I think this is where we differ. I don't consider PIS , I consider what the person has been consistently showing so far. If one person is overwhelming his opponent in a fight and letting him off again and again ( like now ) , then that counts as that the person who's overwhelming the other person is stronger. Because only then will we understand who's really stronger. Nobody says Batman is stronger than Superman just because Batman wins the fight.

Yes , and the end result was that Natsu wasn't able to get up in the end after the battle with Jackal. He was in a miserable condition. This is Natsu's condition after fighting with Jackal :

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My example is better than yours because 1) We don't know how much force Mard was putting behind those attacks. Like , Acno couldn't KO Wendy with his attacks.
2) Mard had exhausted himself a lot after casting Alegria ( look up on the stats card , Alegria consumes 5000 points which is ×5 more than Memento Mori ) , which is a very heavy spell. Which must have significantly nerfed his stats.

Unlike Mard's case , Natsu's durability doesn't change like that. And we know Jackal was in his optimum condition as well. So we can directly scale Natsu's durability in accordance to the damage Jackal dishes out.

As I said , my views on PIS differ from yours. In my eyes , since Kyouka was the dominant one and was overwhelming Erza for almost 95% of the fight and let go of many chances to kill her due to PIS , Kyouka's the stronger one. We're checking whose stronger here , we don't want stupid character to be a hindrance.

Nah I mean Silver gave Gray his residual power like Igneel gave Natsu his power. DeS is like FDKM , it can function with Gray's own power , but at that moment he was using Silver's power to fight with DeS.

Well may be that's your opinion. In my view , since Etherion is a country leveling attack which has been proven to have destroyed a country , he can destroy not only Laxus but even Fiore with Etherion. But okay , let's not go on a tangent.
Dude. Okay , I will give you give you another instance. Ikusa Tsunagi no sold Natsu's base punches and forced Natsu to use his FDK demolition fist ( the strongest attack he can muster excluding modes he can't access willingly like DF , FoE , etc. ) . Does that mean Ikusa Tsunagi is a match for Natsu ? Historia Serena clashed with Gildarts , traded punches and even managed to injure him little before being oneshotted by Gildarts' serious strong attack. Does that mean Historia Serena is a match for Gildarts ?

No. If you get oneshotted by an attack , regardless of whether the attack is the opponent's strongest move or not , you aren't a match for the other person. I'm sure you would have never said Historia Serena to be a match for Gildarts , you're playing blind because GH are probably your favourite villains. When Makarov said Jura was a match for Gildarts he must've seen Jura's strongest attack , and compared that to Gildarts' strongest attack. Bluenote wasn't a match for Gildarts. If you want to understand how you sound try saying Historia Serena is a match for Gildarts. Because if your logic is to be considered saying so isn't a stretch.

That is indeed where we differ. PiS is just a reality of fiction. Gray put up as good of a fight as he did against Silver because that’s what Mashima wanted, which means Mashima viewed Gray at that level. PiS doesn’t change that.

Doesn’t really matter how his condition looked, FT characters are more about endurance than durability. Natsu could keep fighting against bloodlusted Etherious Mard, that trumps looking like shit after a fight with Jackal.
It was ages between Algeria and his fight with Natsu, in that time Natsu used LFD mode including his secret art, and had been considerably damaged. Natsu was in far worse condition than Mard when their fight began, and even if he wasn’t, Mards offense doesnt get weaker after casting Algeria so it doesn’t matter. And the other curse isn’t Memento Mori, it was Thorn Bramble.

Yeah, we’re checking who’s stronger, which is why Erza, the victor. is my choice.

Was never stated Gray had Silvers no, and even if it was, so what?

Spell size means nothing to me.

For Iku, the fight ended in two seconds. Iku lasting two seconds against Natsu doesn’t impress me, if Mashima wanted to make Iku look like a match for Natsu then he would’ve given him an actual fight.
For GS, Gildarts wasn’t bloodlusted, he treated Serena like a joke, and he lasted like 10 seconds. Get treated like a joke, get viewed as a joke.
Bluenote on the other hand had an extended battle with bloodlusted Gildarts that actually showed Gildarts struggling against him. He was consistently portrayed as the only foe on Gildarts level. Saying Makarovs throw away comment based on Juras strongest attack is comparable to all that, is me being generous to you. To be a match for Gildarts you have to match Gildarts, which Bluenote did and Jura was said to do. They’re on the same tier.
You’re playing blind because Tartaros villains are prob your favourite villains(see how easy that is? Keep your accusations to yourself).

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

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