Discussion Bounties: How are they Attributed?

[Pirate Queen]

He was weak. To be a significant threat against the WG. You have to be strong.

Clearly you don't becuase Luffy was weak(Relatively speaking) to any competent Marine but was the biggest threat so far

 

[thedude]

Thinking of Bounties, I think Oda missed an opportunity at a decent type of arc, a bounty hunter arc. Would be cool if there was a strong group of bounty hunters, not pirates or marines, just like Zoro was I guess, who chased the SH's for an arc. I think the crew is far too strong for that now, so the ship has sailed on it. But could have been cool and different.

 

[HereNThere]

As the series progressed, it's pretty obvious that there was, and still is, a bit of bounty inflation going on.

Luffy, as well as Ace and Robin for that matter, should have had significantly higher bounties given the danger they supposedly represent on a narrative level.

Jinbe, a former Shichibukai, only gets a 100 milli and some change boost despite leaving the Shichibukai, betraying the government, participating in the war and immediately joining a Yonkou after.

Law, for his troubles, only gets a 60 milli boost despite similarly betraying the government and assisting in the Doffy take down.

Going by the logic here, Boa, Mihawk, and Weevil should only get between 60 milli and 200 milli boost at the most with their new bounties. But we know that won't be the case, since these characters are going to get bounties that keep them relevant at this point in the series.

 

[M3J]

He was weak. To be a significant threat against the WG. You have to be strong.

He's strong and a significant threat, and he has tremendous potential as well.

 

[XXGenesis]

He's strong and a significant threat, and he has tremendous potential as well.

No Luffy was not all that strong. If you dont know haki your a weakling in the grand scheme.

 

[kkck]

As the series progressed, it's pretty obvious that there was, and still is, a bit of bounty inflation going on.

Luffy, as well as Ace and Robin for that matter, should have had significantly higher bounties given the danger they supposedly represent on a narrative level.

Jinbe, a former Shichibukai, only gets a 100 milli and some change boost despite leaving the Shichibukai, betraying the government, participating in the war and immediately joining a Yonkou after.

Law, for his troubles, only gets a 60 milli boost despite similarly betraying the government and assisting in the Doffy take down.

Going by the logic here, Boa, Mihawk, and Weevil should only get between 60 milli and 200 milli boost at the most with their new bounties. But we know that won't be the case, since these characters are going to get bounties that keep them relevant at this point in the series.

Dunno, to me it looks like at least until relatively recently luffy has been way overvalued bounty wise. And its relatively recently that he has caught up to his value. Probably around the dressrosa arc... When he got his first bounty IIRC the marines did think 30 mil was too much for him but because of that one guy who pushed for it luffy got 30 mil. Even arlong was worth just 20 mil and luffy got a substantially higher bounty than that. Then for 100 mil... well, 100 mil for someone who defeated a shichibukai is probably the bare minimum but the dressrosa arc actually does not play well with how the series has developed and even oda admits that in hindsight it was too soon for luffy to have defeated crocodile back then. And this also plays weirdly with the supernova who were rookie pirates. So luffy defeated a shichibukai, but was given 100 mil which is a number that is only meaningful to rookies? Makes no sense at all. Then luffy got 300 mil... For defeated lucci who at the time was basically fodder and trashing ennies lobby which was very obviously entirely unguarded. Sure, there were guards but the island had basically zero strong people guarding. Vice admirals eventually showed up but for some reason rather than get involved and spank luffy they decided that leaving it to lucci, a weak shit who was struggling against a rookie, was a good idea. Realistically speaking odds are that there are rear admirals who would have been at least a match to lucci/luffy at the time and vice admirals would easily have foderized both. So what we have is that marines have 3 levels of marines with admiral in the title and not one of them was actively defending one of the world government's most important locations. Early in the series I would argue luffy was vastly overvalued and it is only at around the dressrosa arc that his bounty started representing his actual threat level.

 

[M3J]

No Luffy was not all that strong. If you dont know haki your a weakling in the grand scheme.

He was strong enough to beat Lucci, escape Impel Down, and free Ace. He was strong enough to change the tide of the war against the Marines and make a significant difference, and he isn't even at his peak yet. That alone should signify a much higher bounty, among other factors, given the Marines and Tenryuubito's desire to have Luffy killed or imprisoned.

 

[thedude]

Dunno, to me it looks like at least until relatively recently luffy has been way overvalued bounty wise. And its relatively recently that he has caught up to his value. Probably around the dressrosa arc... When he got his first bounty IIRC the marines did think 30 mil was too much for him but because of that one guy who pushed for it luffy got 30 mil. Even arlong was worth just 20 mil and luffy got a substantially higher bounty than that. Then for 100 mil... well, 100 mil for someone who defeated a shichibukai is probably the bare minimum but the dressrosa arc actually does not play well with how the series has developed and even oda admits that in hindsight it was too soon for luffy to have defeated crocodile back then. And this also plays weirdly with the supernova who were rookie pirates. So luffy defeated a shichibukai, but was given 100 mil which is a number that is only meaningful to rookies? Makes no sense at all. Then luffy got 300 mil... For defeated lucci who at the time was basically fodder and trashing ennies lobby which was very obviously entirely unguarded. Sure, there were guards but the island had basically zero strong people guarding. Vice admirals eventually showed up but for some reason rather than get involved and spank luffy they decided that leaving it to lucci, a weak shit who was struggling against a rookie, was a good idea. Realistically speaking odds are that there are rear admirals who would have been at least a match to lucci/luffy at the time and vice admirals would easily have foderized both. So what we have is that marines have 3 levels of marines with admiral in the title and not one of them was actively defending one of the world government's most important locations. Early in the series I would argue luffy was vastly overvalued and it is only at around the dressrosa arc that his bounty started representing his actual threat level.

Lol, when was Lucci fodder???? The governments top assassin. Even after losing he got promoted to their top CP team.

And how was Ennies Lobby unguarded? Did i read a different manga???? CP9 + Giants + thousands of marines is pretty well guarded for a place that's near impossible to get into and has no real reason to be even that guarded.

Lucci would have killed a good portion of those VA's.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2020 ---

He was strong enough to beat Lucci, escape Impel Down, and free Ace. He was strong enough to change the tide of the war against the Marines and make a significant difference, and he isn't even at his peak yet. That alone should signify a much higher bounty, among other factors, given the Marines and Tenryuubito's desire to have Luffy killed or imprisoned.

At Marineford he was also running on fumes. Iva's hormones helped keep him up, but he was basically a running mess at that time. And yet he still caused so much havoc.

 

[kkck]

Lol, when was Lucci fodder???? The governments top assassin. Even after losing he got promoted to their top CP team.

And how was Ennies Lobby unguarded? Did i read a different manga???? CP9 + Giants + thousands of marines is pretty well guarded for a place that's near impossible to get into and has no real reason to be even that guarded.

Lucci would have killed a good portion of those VA's.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2020 ---

At Marineford he was also running on fumes. Iva's hormones helped keep him up, but he was basically a running mess at that time. And yet he still caused so much havoc.

Probably from when we first saw him up until some point in the timeskip. Lucci lost to luffy, who was a rookie that couldn't even hold his ground a pacifista... And he clearly wasn't the world government's top assassin if CP0 is a thing.

No, we read the same manga. But in context CP9+ giants + however many marines there were is basically the same as unguarded. The strawhats barely made it out but a barely competent NW pirate would have basically foderize everything there. Ennies lobby was guarded by small time marines, there were no admiral level marines there (as in rear admiral, vice admiral or admirals).

As for the VAs, lucci would not have won against any of them. The VAs that were at the ennies lobby buster call are among the world government's top soldiers... As in, each one would have defeated 10 CP9s with ease. Lucci from ennies lobby would not even win against the weakest VA in the marines. Not all VAs are equal but they are all experienced marines and haki users. The idea that lucci from ennies lobby, who lost against a rookie pirate, can compete with any VA is a gross underestimation of the vice admirals. Commodores and rear admirals are probably in lucci's league....

 

[thedude]

Probably from when we first saw him up until some point in the timeskip. Lucci lost to luffy, who was a rookie that couldn't even hold his ground a pacifista... And he clearly wasn't the world government's top assassin if CP0 is a thing.

No, we read the same manga. But in context CP9+ giants + however many marines there were is basically the same as unguarded. The strawhats barely made it out but a barely competent NW pirate would have basically foderize everything there. Ennies lobby was guarded by small time marines, there were no admiral level marines there (as in rear admiral, vice admiral or admirals).

As for the VAs, lucci would not have won against any of them. The VAs that were at the ennies lobby buster call are among the world government's top soldiers... As in, each one would have defeated 10 CP9s with ease. Lucci from ennies lobby would not even win against the weakest VA in the marines. Not all VAs are equal but they are all experienced marines and haki users. The idea that lucci from ennies lobby, who lost against a rookie pirate, can compete with any VA is a gross underestimation of the vice admirals. Commodores and rear admirals are probably in lucci's league....

Luffy at that time had also beaten a Schichibukai. He wasn't a scrub.

CP9 was their assasination group. CP0 is something else. Each CP has a function.

You are substituting your feelings for what Oda's written if you say he wouldn't have beaten any of those VA's. I can't debate when someone is just deciding their own rules of the manga. Would a VA beat Crocodile with ease?

 

[kkck]

Luffy at that time had also beaten a Schichibukai. He wasn't a scrub.

CP9 was their assasination group. CP0 is something else. Each CP has a function.

You are substituting your feelings for what Oda's written if you say he wouldn't have beaten any of those VA's. I can't debate when someone is just deciding their own rules of the manga. Would a VA beat Crocodile with ease?

Luffy at the time had beaten crocodile, one of the weaker shichibukai.... And even oda made the point it was probably too soon for luffy to do that. It makes no sense that crocodile wasn't immediately foderized at marineford and that he even took attacks from jozu.

It's not feelings, its just a fact that VAs are a powerful force in the grand scheme of things while pre time skip luffy from several arcs after ennies lobby was a weak rookie that needed to be babysited all through marineford. Heck, the VAs being weak means that the in the entirety of the force only the admirals and garp are actually powerful. That makes no sense at all.

 

[thedude]

Luffy at the time had beaten crocodile, one of the weaker shichibukai.... And even oda made the point it was probably too soon for luffy to do that. It makes no sense that crocodile wasn't immediately foderized at marineford and that he even took attacks from jozu.

It's not feelings, its just a fact that VAs are a powerful force in the grand scheme of things while pre time skip luffy from several arcs after ennies lobby was a weak rookie that needed to be babysited all through marineford. Heck, the VAs being weak means that the in the entirety of the force only the admirals and garp are actually powerful. That makes no sense at all.

It only "makes no sense" if you are trying to substitute your writing for Oda's. Maybe...Luffy was strong! And so was Crocodile. And so was Lucci! All of these things can be true, and the manga in fact supports that. Only you are trying to substitute your thinking for "facts", "facts" that aren't supported in the actual manga.

Maynard was a VA in dressrosa, he was destroyed by Barto. Doflamingo casually used them as puppets for his amusement during a meeting.

Some VA are very strong. Others are not so strong. I'm sure Lucci would fit somewhere in the middle, but to say each and every one of them would destroy not just him, but the rest of CP9 as well with ease is just not supported by anything in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2020 ---

(BTW, if you are going to quote Oda about "Crocodile being introduced/beaten too early", can you please provide an actual source for that quote. The more i search, the more I see it, the less "proof" i see to the quote being accurate, or even something he said. Maybe he said something similar? But I can't see it anywhere, so it's best not to use something unless you have actual backup for it).

 

[kkck]

It only "makes no sense" if you are trying to substitute your writing for Oda's. Maybe...Luffy was strong! And so was Crocodile. And so was Lucci! All of these things can be true, and the manga in fact supports that. Only you are trying to substitute your thinking for "facts", "facts" that aren't supported in the actual manga.

Maynard was a VA in dressrosa, he was destroyed by Barto. Doflamingo casually used them as puppets for his amusement during a meeting.

Some VA are very strong. Others are not so strong. I'm sure Lucci would fit somewhere in the middle, but to say each and every one of them would destroy not just him, but the rest of CP9 as well with ease is just not supported by anything in the manga.

Doflamingo even trapped jozu... being trapped by his strings doesn't necessarily mean someone is weak or stronger than someone else. Lucci at the time of ennies lobby was not even a haki user, that came at some point during the timeskip. Meanwhile all marine vice admirals and above are haki users. And barto is most likely well stronger than pre time skip lucci.

No, not all of those can be true... Because oda set luffy and the other supernova up as rookie crews towards the first part's ending. Luffy being a rookie fits with how consistently he was foderized and babysitted during the marineford war. Heck, luffy was straight up told he was too young to stand at the war by the admirals. And they weren't wrong.

 

[goldb]

He was weak. To be a significant threat against the WG. You have to be strong.

Not necessarily, you just have to be a danger. Whether by strength or information/other threat you could pose to them. Hence Robin having such high bounty at 8 years old, because what she knew.

 

[XXGenesis]

If Robin & her info is such a threat..whybis user Bounty 79k-120k for over a decade...She's not a bigger threat than Veteran pirates with bounties 4x times her own...

My perspective is...Almost nothing is attainable in the One Pieve world without some level of strength.....I.e..Vivian, Coby, Nami, Usopp, Weakoshi, Momo..etc etc

When you look at One Piece's list of Criminals, they majority possess fighting prowess. I.e Danger & threat...Strength is the primary evaluation of attaining a higher bounty..i.E Certain feats are just impossible without the execution power

 

[kkck]

Sure, but strength is also relative to what you compare it. Rob lucci was strong by paradise standards during the ennies lobby arc but with that level of strength he wouldn't do much in the new world. He needed, and got, a substantial increase in strength to maintain his relevance. Same goes with luffy. Strong by paradise standards but he was weak by new world standards before the timeskip. That's why a single pacisfista took the entire strawhat crew to defeat... Even though any new world pirate worth something could solo one.

 

[HereNThere]

Dunno, to me it looks like at least until relatively recently luffy has been way overvalued bounty wise. And its relatively recently that he has caught up to his value. Probably around the dressrosa arc... When he got his first bounty IIRC the marines did think 30 mil was too much for him but because of that one guy who pushed for it luffy got 30 mil. Even arlong was worth just 20 mil and luffy got a substantially higher bounty than that. Then for 100 mil... well, 100 mil for someone who defeated a shichibukai is probably the bare minimum but the dressrosa arc actually does not play well with how the series has developed and even oda admits that in hindsight it was too soon for luffy to have defeated crocodile back then. And this also plays weirdly with the supernova who were rookie pirates. So luffy defeated a shichibukai, but was given 100 mil which is a number that is only meaningful to rookies? Makes no sense at all. Then luffy got 300 mil... For defeated lucci who at the time was basically fodder and trashing ennies lobby which was very obviously entirely unguarded. Sure, there were guards but the island had basically zero strong people guarding. Vice admirals eventually showed up but for some reason rather than get involved and spank luffy they decided that leaving it to lucci, a weak shit who was struggling against a rookie, was a good idea. Realistically speaking odds are that there are rear admirals who would have been at least a match to lucci/luffy at the time and vice admirals would easily have foderized both. So what we have is that marines have 3 levels of marines with admiral in the title and not one of them was actively defending one of the world government's most important locations. Early in the series I would argue luffy was vastly overvalued and it is only at around the dressrosa arc that his bounty started representing his actual threat level.

Luffy's bounty has been undervalued, in my opinion. Luffy's 30 milli bounty was higher than Arlong's because Luffy had beaten all the notable Pirates of the East Blue. They actually said they felt he deserved that bounty for that reason.

His defeat of Crocodile is an instance of his bounty being lower than it should have been. 70 milli for beating a former 81 milli dude? That doesn't add up. I think it was later said at some point that the Government held it back or hid his exploits as well, making it lower. I'm not entirely sure if I'm recalling that correctly though.

200 milli for his actions on Ennis Lobby is fair, if a bit wonky. He beat a highly capable special agent and went out of his way to defy the WG when retrieving Robin. That's a fair jump in my opinion considering the larger implications of his actions. Lucci is a part of that, but his defeat alone isn't why it's so high. I might be wrong though. Given the fact that Zoro and Sanji didn't get 100 milli for defeating Kaku and Jabra, makes me think that. Even weirder, Sanji's got a 77 milli for beating Jabra, but Zoro only got 60 milli for Kaku. Doesn't really make much sense.

Which brings me to my main point of why I think Luffy is undervalued. Now punching a CD, participating in the war, and the revelation of who his father is only giving him a 100 milli jump? That's seriously undervaluing. The fact that punching a CD is enough to get an Admiral should should at least double that considering Admirals are basically a death sentence. Add in that he's the son of Dragon, the World's Worst Criminal, and you'd think he'd get more.

I mean, for 9 months, the Government was checking for any births to look for Roger's kid. And when they finally found him, they sentenced him to be executed for just being born. Ace should've had a super high bounty given the amount of effort they went through. Luffy should be the same.

 

[thedude]

Luffy's bounty has been undervalued, in my opinion. Luffy's 30 milli bounty was higher than Arlong's because Luffy had beaten all the notable Pirates of the East Blue. They actually said they felt he deserved that bounty for that reason.

His defeat of Crocodile is an instance of his bounty being lower than it should have been. 70 milli for beating a former 81 milli dude? That doesn't add up. I think it was later said at some point that the Government held it back or hid his exploits as well, making it lower. I'm not entirely sure if I'm recalling that correctly though.

200 milli for his actions on Ennis Lobby is fair, if a bit wonky. He beat a highly capable special agent and went out of his way to defy the WG when retrieving Robin. That's a fair jump in my opinion considering the larger implications of his actions. Lucci is a part of that, but his defeat alone isn't why it's so high. I might be wrong though. Given the fact that Zoro and Sanji didn't get 100 milli for defeating Kaku and Jabra, makes me think that. Even weirder, Sanji's got a 77 milli for beating Jabra, but Zoro only got 60 milli for Kaku. Doesn't really make much sense.

Which brings me to my main point of why I think Luffy is undervalued. Now punching a CD, participating in the war, and the revelation of who his father is only giving him a 100 milli jump? That's seriously undervaluing. The fact that punching a CD is enough to get an Admiral should should at least double that considering Admirals are basically a death sentence. Add in that he's the son of Dragon, the World's Worst Criminal, and you'd think he'd get more.

I mean, for 9 months, the Government was checking for any births to look for Roger's kid. And when they finally found him, they sentenced him to be executed for just being born. Ace should've had a super high bounty given the amount of effort they went through. Luffy should be the same.

They said so in the arc itself, they credited Smoker with beating Crocodile.

You also can't look at bounties as additive. Like Zoro didn't get $60M for beating Kaku, $17M less than Sanji. Sanji got his first bounty, and Zoro got an increase. Kaku wasn't worth $60M. Beating Kaku and his earlier exploits raised him to his new bounty.

 

[HereNThere]

You also can't look at bounties as additive. Like Zoro didn't get $60M for beating Kaku, $17M less than Sanji. Sanji got his first bounty, and Zoro got an increase. Kaku wasn't worth $60M. Beating Kaku and his earlier exploits raised him to his new bounty.

Given the odd numbers of bounties, I would assume there is an additive nature to it depending on the crime. Unless there is some weird percentage equation they use to bump it up.

 

[kkck]

Luffy's bounty has been undervalued, in my opinion. Luffy's 30 milli bounty was higher than Arlong's because Luffy had beaten all the notable Pirates of the East Blue. They actually said they felt he deserved that bounty for that reason.

His defeat of Crocodile is an instance of his bounty being lower than it should have been. 70 milli for beating a former 81 milli dude? That doesn't add up. I think it was later said at some point that the Government held it back or hid his exploits as well, making it lower. I'm not entirely sure if I'm recalling that correctly though.

200 milli for his actions on Ennis Lobby is fair, if a bit wonky. He beat a highly capable special agent and went out of his way to defy the WG when retrieving Robin. That's a fair jump in my opinion considering the larger implications of his actions. Lucci is a part of that, but his defeat alone isn't why it's so high. I might be wrong though. Given the fact that Zoro and Sanji didn't get 100 milli for defeating Kaku and Jabra, makes me think that. Even weirder, Sanji's got a 77 milli for beating Jabra, but Zoro only got 60 milli for Kaku. Doesn't really make much sense.

Which brings me to my main point of why I think Luffy is undervalued. Now punching a CD, participating in the war, and the revelation of who his father is only giving him a 100 milli jump? That's seriously undervaluing. The fact that punching a CD is enough to get an Admiral should should at least double that considering Admirals are basically a death sentence. Add in that he's the son of Dragon, the World's Worst Criminal, and you'd think he'd get more.

I mean, for 9 months, the Government was checking for any births to look for Roger's kid. And when they finally found him, they sentenced him to be executed for just being born. Ace should've had a super high bounty given the amount of effort they went through. Luffy should be the same.

I am not really of the idea that bounties are cumulative. In a previous post I mention thresholds and whatnot. As in, luffy won't get an extra 50k belly to his bounty for every car he steals (just an example). so its not that he got just 70 mil. It's that he got pushed to a higher bounty threshold. Luffy made it to supernova basically when he defeated crocodile. That said, everything around crocodile will be invariably weird if you think about it because it makes no sense at all. And that is in part because oda fucked up (and he has admitted that luffy defeated crocodile too soon in the story). A shichibukai being defeated is in theory a gigantic deal. A deal big enough that it literally got the world's superpowers to move and ultimately lead to the marineford war. Marines, yonko and BB reacted to this. It was the reason BB went after luffy... So what gets really absurd is that defeating crocidile got luffy to 100 mil but defeating rob lucci and CP9, a lesser feat than defeating a shichibukai, got him to 300 mil. And crocodile clearly should not have been all that at marineford. By that time we had seen luffy being made short work of several times by several people. Aokiji foderized the monster trio, the strawhats barely pulled a win against a single pacifista, sentomaru completely wrecked luffy. And yet the same crocodile that got defeated by non geared luffy punches shows up at marineford, takes the full blunt of an attack from jozu and doesn't because a bloodstain then and there? As in, the same jozu that was holding back aokiji and stopped a slash from mihawk?

Even the world government is not brazen enough to give a literal baby a bounty...