Shounen Claymore by Norihiro Yagi

[Unholy]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

You might want to re-read the Ophelia Arc. There were two battles in it, one before, and one after the training with Ilena/Irene. In the former, when it was Clare-vs-Ophelia-vs-NamelessAwakenedBeing, Raki was even taken "hostage" by Ophelia.

Apart from that: yes, you're right in that it makes sense for Raki to be weak. But that doesn't take away the fact that he was, and that it was pretty annoying for him to be around, doing almost nothing of importance except serve as a catalyst for changes in Clare's character.

Hmm, I posted something similar in a different thread today, let me quote some... It was actually about Clare and Raki's "bond", but I wrote some stuff in there that I'm too lazy to type again right now, so heh:


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Of course, if everything went according to Isley's and Priscilla's "plans", he would've never found out, but life doesn't work that way. You can't spend seven years with people you don't know to be gut-eating demons without noticing subtle oddities in their behavior. Something like what happened in the anime (Raki caught Priscilla eating the guts of a random man and crying about her lost family) would've eventually happened. Also, Raki - who has been portrayed as a decently smart kid, if a bit emotional - wouldn't be one to just accept the fact that 'this young girl I'm travelling with can sense youki' without putting some question marks into that ability and it's origins.

Well yeah i got to agree with u on that one whoever what is bothering me is that we dont know rakis back ground to go around calling him an idiot, we havent really seen what happen to him on those 7 years, he might have being together with priscilla/isley for a s short while (well long enought for him to learn the basis of sword fighting) and i just dont see that girl as being priscilla.Isley was in love with her after all i dont think he would just let she leave and it makes no sense for raki to hunt man eating youmas with a girl that does the same thing (to be honest i think the awakend ones only eat humans cause they want to they could live a happy life eating other animals but it looks like humans taste better i think awakened ophelia mentioned something close to that).Anyway if raki is still human he wont be of any help to claire after all not even the strongest claymores are a match for isley/priscilla/riful any regular human wouldnt stand a chance of course he might turn into a claymore more or something similar to become usefull but for now i think he might be able to fight weak awakened ones but anything as strong as duffy would be too much for him.If he is somehow a new sort of hybrid he might turn out to be strong enought to help.I just mentioned why raki was weak because there are plausible reasons, and therefore it dosent bother me i only get pissed with a char when i know they could be strong but are not because they dont wanna be (like being rescued over and over again without changing or getting any stronger).And he can actually built some courage when it has to be done he is still weak but at least he tries and i like that (good example was he fighting ophelia to protect claire).

I would say claire/raki relationship on the start was more like a close friendship whoever claire prolly strated to like/love him with all the stuff he did to show he liked her (standing on her side and talking back to cid, wanting to die with her when she was about to awaken and so on).Even if the relationship didnt move to romance they were pretty close so it is only natural for claire to look for him.

 

[bax]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

The issue is not whether he is claymore level or not, but whether he can help Claire or not. I think we all agree that if it was the Claire frim 7 years ago then he would've been a great help, but right now Claire is fighting in another league... u can see that if he took so long for just a yoma at this level, then there's no way the balance of power between Raki and Claire changed so she won't have to protect him( and don't even mention "saving her").

Eh well.. I won't be so quick to judge him from a single Yoma though. I don't think he even broke a sweat against that Yoma. And usually, in manga, someone who is making a come back, won't be shown having problems to defeat his/her enemies.

Call it for the sake of dramatic effect if you will, but I think Raki is far stronger than that. Having under tutelage from a great swordsman, for 7 years, he should be better than what he showed us.

 

[shrimpy]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Since I watched the anime, and skipped a chapter or two after it ended, can someone tell me how long Raki was training with Isley? Wasn't it him who taught Raki how to fight? Or did Raki quickly escape from Isley and his real teacher is yet to be revealed?

...and I'm betting Raki is actually wielding a Claymore. He's still human, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took one off a grave or (most likely) from his deceased ex-claymore master... well, time will tell.

 

[Neuroff]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Since I watched the anime, and skipped a chapter or two after it ended, can someone tell me how long Raki was training with Isley? Wasn't it him who taught Raki how to fight? Or did Raki quickly escape from Isley and his real teacher is yet to be revealed?

They haven't revealed anything about what Raki did during the 7 years, so it's unknown how long Raki was with them. There also was never that scene with Raki seeing Priscilla eating people, so he might not have figured out who Isley and Priscilla really are.

...and I'm betting Raki is actually wielding a Claymore. He's still human, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took one off a grave or (most likely) from his deceased ex-claymore master... well, time will tell.

The claymores that mark graves are all marked with the Claymores' symbols. Raki's sword has no mark, so it must have come from somewhere else, maybe Isley.

 

[Jammin]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Since I watched the anime, and skipped a chapter or two after it ended, can someone tell me how long Raki was training with Isley? Wasn't it him who taught Raki how to fight? Or did Raki quickly escape from Isley and his real teacher is yet to be revealed?

...and I'm betting Raki is actually wielding a Claymore. He's still human, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took one off a grave or (most likely) from his deceased ex-claymore master... well, time will tell.

Right after the events of Pieta it was shown that Raki had traveled south with Isley and Priscilla. He was learning swordsmanship from Isley and taking care of Priscilla at the time, with no idea who they really were. That was his latest appearance until just now.

As for his sword, though it's definitely similar to a claymore, it's different. Compare his sword to any of the other claymore's swords, especially the hilt. His looks more like a regular broadsword than the more intricate claymore swords.

This is just a guess but I'm thinking he and the abyssal ones have gone their separate ways. He would have noticed Priscilla not growing any older in the last 7 years. I'm also thinking that he will be turning into a male claymore at some point. Which means he will be going from Conan Raki to a full on He-Man Raki. BY THE POWER OF CASTLE GRAY SKULL!!!!!!

(If that last sentence doesn't make sense to you watch He-man and then you'll understand)

 

[Ramen4ever]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Okay that was pretty intense. I haven't really been keeping up with claymore. So I'm not fully versed. But it looks like Raki finally stopped being a lil B1tch and nows hes gotten into the game.

 

[baboysai]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

...and I'm betting Raki is actually wielding a Claymore. He's still human, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took one off a grave or (most likely) from his deceased ex-claymore master... well, time will tell.

The claymores that mark graves are all marked with the Claymores' symbols. Raki's sword has no mark, so it must have come from somewhere else, maybe Isley.

@shrimpy, correct me if I'm wrong.. so your theory is that Isley is dead? since he can also be considered an ex-claymore. So Neuroff, Isley might have a sword that doesn't have a symbol.. am I making sense?

and i just dont see that girl as being priscilla.Isley was in love with her after all i dont think he would just let she leave and it makes no sense for raki to hunt man eating youmas with a girl that does the same thing

If Isley loved priscilla, and if the girl with Raki is indeed Priscilla, there's a possibility that Isley did not let Priscilla "go", but that it shows Raki is a tool for a much greater plan and Isley has allowed Priscilla to accompany Raki to make sure it's carried out well. Of course, this is beyond Raki's knowledge.

Well, that's just my random theory anyway.

 

[Neuroff]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

@shrimpy, correct me if I'm wrong.. so your theory is that Isley is dead? since he can also be considered an ex-claymore. So Neuroff, Isley might have a sword that doesn't have a symbol.. am I making sense?

I think shrimpy is talking about a case in which someone else taught Raki.

The claymore swords in the flashback at the beginning of the chapter don't have symbols on them. So it's possible that the early claymores (the males) had claymores without symbols.

 

[Katea]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Well maybe Pricilia got rid of Isley in the seven years after she got more and more addicted to Raki... So when they killed Isley, Raki took over Isley's old Claymore sword and armor. Just a random guessing from me

 

[rukori]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

My theory is that Raki was training at Isley's and after about 6 years he went to look for Claire. if you'll make a close-up on the sword from the first page you'll see that it's not exactly the same(the hilt is different) so maybe Isley just bought it and the armor someplace else...
About the girl, as someone mentionesd before, there's just no reason to hide her face if she's Priscilla so she must be someone else and younger than the Raki 7 years ago(if the proportions are not 100% messed up...).
Isley probably planning something and Priscilla must be with him, 'cause I just can't see him letting her go.

 

[Goral]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

(...)
-For the ones that keep saing he would be an idiot if he didnt realize priscilla/isley are the bad guys:
Oh really? Tell me something he couldnt sense yoki (cant tell they are awaken being) they were kind to him, and they never did anything evil in front of raki how would he tell they are bad (they could hide that they eat humans besides that little fact they can act like regular humans)? Psichy powers? Intuition?
(...)

They could, however you missed one minor detail. Maybe Isley would restrain himself, but retarded Priscilla? Doubtful. She could grow her horn any time, suddenly eat guts or fly to get food. Also I don't think she would be willing to eat tasteless (compared to guts) Raki's cooking so he would start to wonder what and when does she eat. Isley would have to eat normal food too, unless he made a rule from the start that he wouldn't eat with Raki. Not to mention there ought to be a situation where Priscilla would have blood or intestines on herself, he would have to be an idiot if he didn't suspect anything then.

I think that MiB would think of possible mutiny of their warriors so I don't think they would allow them to reproduce. Otherwise they wouldn't need any more children for claymores, they could just breed the ones they made. The same would apply to Riful and Dauf, they wouldn't have to search for allies if they could make children. So I reject possibility the girl being Isley's and Priscilla's child. Raki's and Priscilla's? Well I doubt it but it's certainly more plausible than above. It could be that until Raki, there were no AB who preferred having sex than eating guts (Agatha was the closest to that but she was just toying with Cid), maybe Priscilla broke this rule and raped Raki, that's why he doesn't like to talk about it .
If it was his kid, what kind of guardian would he be if he left her alone and went to fight youma? She could be taken hostage or get injured. Even if he was sure that he could take care of them he would be risking that she could get hurt anyway (although it was safer to take her off his shoulders it was still dangerous). If I was a guardian I wouldn't travel with a kiddo to a place where youma are to begin with but would find a safer place, unless I was sure she wouldn't be killed (because she was so powerful for example). If he wanted to meet Clare that badly he could have stayed at one place (Rabona for example). He was using her as a sniffing dog in the first place anyway, I wouldn't call him a guardian, he was more like her partner or her trainer/tamer :P. He trained her so she would point at youma (which she can sense) or which is more plausible IMO she's doing it from her own free will and is more than capable of defending herself.
As for Raki being a claymore. I don't think Isley had measures to make him one, otherwise he could make his own army of AB long before he met Priscilla. Even if he did, wouldn't Raki find it strange that some random guy would know sth like that? After the process he could sense their aura's too, he would certainly notice they don't have silver eyes yet they emit youki, just like AB he met. At least Isley could think it could come to that and I don't know if he would be willing to change his charming scent in front of Priscilla. What's more, Raki would have to risk becoming a monster without knowing if he would ever met with Clare...
Certainly, Raki as a claymore would allow him to shine, would that really be more fun? I'm not so sure about that. If I wanted male protagonist I would read Berserk again. Not to mention it would be quite predictable. Judging by what I've seen so far nothing indicates he's a claymore though.
And don't you think it would be strange if he didn't know whom to attack? Seriously, she pointed at someone and he knew who to kill, he could be mistaken (parallax error anyone ) ? It might be possible that Raki can read youki, at least a bit and the girl is his "master" and a teacher. Otherwise he would be risking lives of innocent people (I wonder if he cut youma's arm to be sure that it's youma) because knowing with certainty who the girl meant when she pointed in the crowd would be impossible, IMO.

And if he can't read yoki how the hell he knows that "it" (Clare, yoma, AB or whatever he was searching) isn't at the town?

Now that I think about it, it would be somewhat suspicious if he carried little girl with a covered face, and Cid shouldn't be able to tell if she's a girl or a boy unless he saw her face meaning she didn't have silver eyes. She can't be AB either because Galatea was probably in the town at that time.
I don't care if Priscilla can suppress youki or minimalize it, Riful detected her humongous power when she stood before her and Galatea always had a much better youki radar (even more after time skip) so I don't think she would have overlooked such strong being's presence. Personally I think Priscilla is still with Isley but I have absolutely no idea who the girl is. It's easier to guess who she isn't and I don't think she's Isley's and Priscilla's child. Also if she was a claymore or AB why would he carry her? She should be able to walk faster than him and have more stamina.

 

[notme]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

My theory is that the little girl is Riful.

A little girl in her own right, Riful has also already stated that she has found something interesting that may help her even the battlefield against Priscilla and Isley, and this "interesting thing" just might be Raki and his relationship to Priscilla.

Also, the little girl was first seen in Rabona (which is in the West), she sits on Raki's shoulder like Riful does with Dauf, and she is about the same height as Riful (if we assume Raki and non-awakened Dauf are roughly the same height). Also, for some reason, Riful wasn't hanging around with Dauf when she met up with the Ghosts, so it is likely that she is off somewhere Dauf can't go.

Finally, Riful hides her yoki so well after the timeskip that even Tabitha cannot detect it.

 

[kaliayev]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

My theory is that the little girl is Riful.

A little girl in her own right, Riful has also already stated that she has found something interesting that may help her even the battlefield against Priscilla and Isley, and this "interesting thing" just might be Raki and his relationship to Priscilla.

except for the fact that this interesting thing requires an individual who can manipulate yoma. what does that have to do with raki? it's more likely that she found some secret weakness of the organization, possibly linked with the other continent. the circumstances of this chapter don't support your theory. when raki showed up and talked to his old friends, he said he was backtracking. obviously he hadn't been back west in a long time. at the same time, the girl was with him when he was traveling through the sacred city. why would riful be with him before he had a chance to even talk to her? riful made it seem like her discovery was recent and she was quite proud of herself for finding it. the time issues just cant be resolved by your theory. when raki encounters the yoma in his home village, the little girl doesn't say a word. does this sound like the gloating riful that we know and love? didn't think so.

why do you guys think that isley and priscilla wouldn't openly reveal themselves to raki? it's not like he had any devotion to the organization's methods. in fact, this organization repeatedly tried to get him and his mentor killed. if isley spun it the right way, he could easily get raki to join his cause (while we don't know the exact plans, we know he's moving against the organization). hell, he could even tell raki that he knew claire was still alive (as if he'd overlook the possibility of miria's plan) and give him his blessing if he wanted to try to find her. if you ask me, raki's gonna be serving as the liaison between isley and claire/miria.

in addition, miria's source is none other than raphaela, who will be making a return within five chapters (i hope).

p.s. i totally called the awakening tactic

p.p.s. i also called the fact that raki is officially a child molester.

oh, and nice to finally have you aboard, genius.

 

[notme]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

except for the fact that this interesting thing requires an individual who can manipulate yoma. what does that have to do with raki? it's more likely that she found some secret weakness of the organization, possibly linked with the other continent. the circumstances of this chapter don't support your theory. when raki showed up and talked to his old friends, he said he was backtracking. obviously he hadn't been back west in a long time. at the same time, the girl was with him when he was traveling through the sacred city. why would riful be with him before he had a chance to even talk to her? riful made it seem like her discovery was recent and she was quite proud of herself for finding it. the time issues just cant be resolved by your theory. when raki encounters the yoma in his home village, the little girl doesn't say a word. does this sound like the gloating riful that we know and love? didn't think so.

Yes, Riful requires a little yoki manipulation to take advantage of whatever she found, but that could mean almost anything. For example, if Raki's armor is made by Isley (which would account for it moving in reaction to the yoma attack) that means it would be alive like Dauf's rods and youki manipulation could affect the armor.

Riful admitted outright to Clare that after Luciela's death there exists no power strong enough to defeat Priscilla, so she has to be looking for some alternative to straight fighting Priscilla. Using Priscilla's relationship with Raki would only be smart.

Also, Riful makes no mention of when she found the "interesting thing," the only thing that we know is that she had not found it (or it did not exist) before the timeskip or else she would have been more interested in Clare and Galatea.

Finally, Rabona is in the West, so Raki could have easily picked her up before he went there. Not only that, but if Riful is spying on Priscilla and Isley (she knows they are still held up in the south), then she would have had to see Raki there. So she most probably does know of Priscilla's attachment to Raki and her ability to hide her yoki could have allowed her to meet up with Raki almost anywhere.

 

[TheGenius]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

oh, and nice to finally have you aboard, genius.

Hehe, thanks!

I really enjoy Claymore, but these guys know so much! I'd have to read it again!

But you know how Raki's situation is going to turn out? Exactly like in Shin Angyo Onshi. Munsu's Sando turned out against him in favor of Aji Tae, Raki will do the same. The human being is a forgetful creature.

 

[kaliayev]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Yes, Riful requires a little yoki manipulation to take advantage of whatever she found, but that could mean almost anything. For example, if Raki's armor is made by Isley (which would account for it moving in reaction to the yoma attack) that means it would be alive like Dauf's rods and youki manipulation could affect the armor.

yeah, that makes a lot of sense. i didn't want to get into this since it's a rather major revelation, but the "interesting thing" probably has nothing to do with raki. what have we seen yoki manipulators do before? think back carefully on this one...they've attempted to force claymores to awaken. remember that guy in pieta who made buff mcbufferson almost lose control and awaken? this is the kind of thing riful wants. oh, but who to use this power on? what could balance the current power struggle? key word: twins. was that enough to give you a guess as to what riful is planning? she wants to awaken the controller while the other is awakened. holy crap, you'd suddenly have a number 1 and a number 2 (possibly of equal power) going completely berserk. if that won't screw up isley's plans for priscilla, i don't know what will. at the very least, a weak yoki manipulator would be able to temporarily disrupt the link. raphaela and luciela have already proven the devastating impact of a minor break in the link. with a yoki manipulator, riful can guarantee the introduction of a new, independent abyssal one.

tee hee, this brings up the question of who told her. raphaela? giving info to the ghosts and the abyssal ones? just what is our favorite number five up to.

 

[notme]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

Why would Riful want to create another 2 AO level beings who would almost certainly gang up against her? Even if Riful could somehow get Alicia and Beth to the same battlefield as Priscilla (unlikely), Riful would be absolutely screwing herself in the long run. She would only be making the odds against her worse by creating 2 powers more powerful than her (Alicia/Beth and Priscilla/Isley), not evening the playing field as she intends.

Not to mention that Riful also said in her speech to Clare that there doesn't exist a power strong enough in the world right now to defeat Priscilla outright.

Also, I think you are overestimating what Clare can do with yoki manipulation. She was just barely able to stop Jean from awakening, and you are saying you think that is sufficient enough manipulation to have Beth, with an A+ in Mental, awaken against her will? Beth may be stressed with the soul link, but I doubt Clare, or anyone with that weak of yoki manipulation skill, is going to cause someone to awaken... Also, we have no idea if yoki manipulation can even affect a soul link... Does it say anywhere that a soul link is powered by yoki?

*edit* I was just reading through the fight with the AB who could manipulate yoki... In chapter 52 when talking about its ability to manipulate yoki and cause a Claymore to awaken Clare says that "You can't even compare Galatea's version to it."

Riful specifically said she only needs a very little yoki manipulation, yet to attack a Claymore in a way similar to what that AB did you would need someone more powerful than Galatea...

 

[kaliayev]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

all riful needs to do is disrupt the link. for raphaela, any small distraction would turn luciela into an abyssal one and did. a slight modification of the controller's yoki flow would accomplish that. if you look at my post, i said that with this ploy, she'd at least be able to awaken one of them. who knows, maybe after one awakens and loses control, the other will awaken of her own free will to join her sister. not every claymore has raphaela's scruples and it doesn't look like the organization spent much time trying to develop their personalities. and obviously, a powerful yoki manipulator would be needed to awaken the controller right off the bat. however, a weak one will still be able to disrupt the link. besides, given riful's actions in the past, who's to say that she wouldn't force the yoki manipulator to awaken, making said manipulator even more powerful?

why wouldn't the link be reliant upon yoki flow? every other action a claymore performs, with a few exceptions, is powered by this substance. 30% yoki release, 60% yoki release, unique moves dependent on the claymore's understanding of yoki, and weakened state due to yoki inhibitors. the mere fact that they need sisters/twins for this experiment means they need individuals with similar yoki flows so that a link can be established.

i believe the original reasoning was that no individual abyssal one could take on priscilla and win. have you forgotten why isley moved south? he wanted to eliminate luciela so that riful and luciela couldn't form an alliance against priscilla. cleary, two abyssal ones would be able to hold their own against priscilla. by introducing another abyssal one, possibly two, riful would make isley's actions since pieta a complete waste. once again, there would be enough abyssal ones to challenge priscilla and riful would make sure that things stayed this way. she's learned her lesson and desires to restore the fragile balance.

also, i never said clare would be the yoki manipulator (can she even do that?).

---

ahem:
http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/62/19/
"complete congruity of yoma energy"

 

[Keshire]

Re: Claymore by Yagi Norihiro

I think an existing person accompanying Raki would be too predictable/convenient. Especially when we're talking the power levels of the existing people.

I go with something more moderate. Like a failed/escaped claymore. We already know they take them while their young.

 

[bax]

Re: Claymore Mega Convo

Ok guys, due to the great interest and encouraging disccussions, we're now officially opening the Claymore forum

You guys can carry on talking about the chapter in the chapter discussion thread. Leave this thread for anything in general about Claymore Feel free to create threads related to Claymore in thsi forum too. If there are a lot of threads, this Claymore forum might get its own subforum (like Naruto Toshokan)

Good day