Discussion Could Zeldris beat Escanor?

[Ger]

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2018 ---

All manner of attacks= any attack directed at DK or the user of the magic.

 

[Demonspeed]

Effects of The Ruler: Heals or empowers the user.

Wild used a physical attack and he is obviously too weak to hurt him. The DK said it can't put a scratch on him, which means that he didn't use it to get stronger or heal. Which should be obvious.

I believe the implication was that it included physical attacks. Chapter 272 ban spoke of wilds attack in the same breath as his snatch and Mel’s full counter. Furthermore, he simply turned it off. Implying it was always on. Wilds success in deflecting the dk maybe more attributed to this then just the boost in power he forced at the expense of his suicide tactic

Wild used Magic. His attack was covered in lightning.

 

[T25]

Effects of The Ruler: Heals or empowers the user.

Wild used a physical attack and he is obviously too weak to hurt him. The DK said it can't put a scratch on him, which means that he didn't use it to get stronger or heal. Which should be obvious. The



Wild used Magic. His attack was covered in lightning.

That is true. However the statement was made that any attack is ineffective. Mel’s full counter was specifically noted and clarified to only work on magic attacks. That isn’t the case here. So while it is possible, until further notice I do not think you should state that it doesn’t apply to physical attacks.

 

[Ger]

Wild used a physical attack and he is obviously too weak to hurt him. The DK said it can't put a scratch on him, which means that he didn't use it to get stronger or heal. Which should be obvious.

Whether or not Wild is too weak to damage DK, the fact that he kept activating the magic for 60 years until they had a plan to counter it says it. If anything DK wanted them to attack so he can get stronger which his intent to do.

 

[Demonspeed]

That is true. However the statement was made that any attack is ineffective. Mel’s full counter was specifically noted and clarified to only work on magic attacks. That isn’t the case here. So while it is possible, until further notice I do not think you should state that it doesn’t apply to physical attacks.

This is what happened:

Wild attacked with his fangs first. The DK simply pushed him back with his finger, then Ban used Snatch, it didn't work, after this Wild use Magic on his fangs for his techniques and Mel came next with his Full Counter. And Ban said their attacks were ineffective.

I will ask you one thing, did the DK absorb any physical attack in this fight? Even for Full Counter, the specificity was mentioned later, when Mel was fighting Ban IIRC. But it was obvious to me and most of the readers IIRC.

The DK being able to absorb absolutely everything would make him absolutely invincible. These he said "attacks directed against you empower or heal you" confirms that the DK can absorb physical and magical ones are another example or people overthinking things. Like Merlin saying that The One is invincible and so on.

I value feats more than words and it should be obvious to anyone that Wild's physical attacks are simply to weak to affect the DK in any way. Plus as I said, the DK said that Wild's physical attacks can't scratch him, which means no absorption or healing at all.

 

[Ger]

This is what happened:

Wild attacked with his fangs first. The DK simply pushed him back with his finger, then Ban used Snatch, it didn't work, same for Full Counter. After this Wild use Magics on his fangs for his techniques. And Ban said their attacks were ineffective.

I will ask you one thing, did the DK absorb any physical attack in this fight? Even for Full Counter, the specificity was mentioned later, when Mel was fighting Ban.

The DK being able to absorb absolutely everything would make him absolutely invincible. These he said "attacks directed against you empower or heal you" confirms that the DK can absorb physical and magical ones are another example or people overthinking things. Like Merlin saying that The One is invincible and so on.

I value feats more than words and it should be obvious to anyone that Wild's physical attacks are simply to weak to affect the DK in any way. Plus as I said, the DK said that Wild's physical attacks can't scratch him, which means no absorption or healing at all.

Why would DK need to heal when he has options that will strengthened himself. Healing is only prioritise unless hes hurt. But the fact that you missed the whole idea that it gives him strength moots the argument. Yes feats matters but the whole idea is that no1 dares to physically combat DK and meliodas and wild used everything they got which includes their magic to take him down. This results of lack the information you're arguing that it only inverts magical attacks when it already states all manner of attacks gets inverted. What's the point of the explanation if they're not be specific about it being magical attacks like you're saying earlier? Statements also matters in this case, but the idea of your argument using magic is the whole idea of no physical power would harm him either way. What's meliodas gonna do without full counter, ban without physical hunt? Or even wild without full throttle?? They cant just use their physical strength when they're in desperate situation trying to defeat him with everything they have. You cant nitpick a desperate situation like that.

 

[lindananahayashida]

No..
Escanor >> Zel (Peak)


No way Zel > T-O

 

[T25]

This is what happened:

Wild attacked with his fangs first. The DK simply pushed him back with his finger, then Ban used Snatch, it didn't work, same for Full Counter. After this Wild use Magics on his fangs for his techniques. And Ban said their attacks were ineffective.

I will ask you one thing, did the DK absorb any physical attack in this fight? Even for Full Counter, the specificity was mentioned later, when Mel was fighting Ban.

The DK being able to absorb absolutely everything would make him absolutely invincible. These he said "attacks directed against you empower or heal you" confirms that the DK can absorb physical and magical ones are another example or people overthinking things. Like Merlin saying that The One is invincible and so on.

I value feats more than words and it should be obvious to anyone that Wild's physical attacks are simply to weak to affect the DK in any way. Plus as I said, the DK said that Wild's physical attacks can't scratch him, which means no absorption or healing at all.

I know what happened. And I also value action more than just words. But even more so than that, I do not find assertions that can be debunked reasonable if stated with such absolutism. It is absolutely brittle thinking that when coupled with the person in question’s “arrogant in their own opinion” nature, you have a recipe for much of what is a characteristic of this forum.

It’s absolutely reasonable to state that it is possible that the dk’s ability is only effective on magic attacks. It is not reasonable to say that it is impossible for it to apply to physical attacks. You are not privy to extensive information or example. The reveal of his magic ability was given by people getting to know it’s effects. It being effective on physical and magical attacks is what would make the ability even more incredible befitting a king. Furthermore it would not make him invincible. The chapter clearly showed how one can get around and even exploit it. You said that “Even for Full Counter, the specificity was mentioned later, when Mel was fighting Ban.” That is exactly my point. This was the first time we saw the dks ability. Mel’s was specified later. So why I were specifying the dks with absolutism on his first showing?

 

[Tristan]

Without any plot devices, I don't see Escanor winning against Zeldris even in the One state!!
The Ruler can trash him handily.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2018 ---

No..
Escanor >> Zel (Peak)


No way Zel > T-O

The Ruler >>> The One

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2018 ---

I value feats more than words and it should be obvious to anyone that Wild's physical attacks are simply to weak to affect the DK in any way. Plus as I said, the DK said that Wild's physical attacks can't scratch him, which means no absorption or healing at all.

I don't remember Meliodas using the word of "absorption" when he explained the mechanisms of The Ruler in ch 283!!
The Ruler depends on the concept of inverting "ALL sorts of damage & weakning into healing & strengthening" ... as simple as that. For instance, the damage that Wild's physical attack could have done to the DK — even if it is merely 0.00000009%— will be "inverted" into healing of the same value. The Ruler affects ALL attacks of weakning & damaging, be it magical or physical, it will do the same.

 

[Seven777]

Zeldris doesnt seem to be able to keep the DK's magic active %100 of the time like the DK does, he got cut by Ludociel's blade and injured by the "greeting" Ludo gave him back in the day, so he should be beatable. With the power levels we're getting these days i wouldnt be surprised if The One is made even higher than what we're seeing.

 

[Kay3795]

Zeldris doesnt seem to be able to keep the DK's magic active %100 of the time like the DK does, he got cut by Ludociel's blade and injured by the "greeting" Ludo gave him back in the day, so he should be beatable. With the power levels we're getting these days i wouldnt be surprised if The One is made even higher than what we're seeing.

I've recently said that the awakening & activation of a person's magic power is where their real power boost lie.

When Ludo activated Flash this chapter, his PL shoot up to 201k. When Meliodas activates his real magic, his PL will take a massive surge to God-status. When Jericho's magic awakened, she went from apprentice HK lvl (about 250) to HK lvl or whatever lvl is needed to defeat a Red Demon (1000+). When Merlin's magic activated, she went from 4800 to whatever level is needed to impress Grayroad (30+k).

The activation of a ones magic is also the gateway to cultivating their power most effectively. Once a magic is awakened (I.e Jericho's ice), it will naturally boost the person it is awakened to; however in combact that person still needs to activated the magic in order to receive & express the boost that it gives (& the boost that it'd give depends on how much it is cultivated in training). For example, we know General Fraudrin's activated magic (Full Size) PL is 30k. Without that magic activated, he wouldn't be able to actually express a 30k lvl combantant. Galan's magic is CO which gives 40k. Without that CO activated, he wouldn't be able to express a 40k PL, only 27k. When Arthur actives his magic, his body should be able to handle Excalibur (as Cath implies I think) because he will receive a surge in his PL.


Since Zeldris only has a portion of the DK's magic, I expect it to be watered down also. It isn't cultivated to the level that the DK's own Inversion is at. He wouldn't receive the same boost (if it even gives much of a pl boost. I say if because inversion is the DK's own power not his, it was awakened & cultivated by Papa not him), nor do I expect Inversion to function as perfectly as the DK's inversion. When Zeldris activates his own power, I expect a surge in his own PL.

 

[Meliodaf]

Yes, yes he can. We know the answer now

 

[lindananahayashida]

Yes, yes he can. We know the answer now

No, no he cant. We know the answer now

 

[Meliodaf]

No, no he cant. We know the answer now

So you think Zeldris loses before or after high noon?

The answer is as it’s always been it depends on the time and Escanor would lose at any time that isn’t high noon.

 

[lindananahayashida]

So you think Zeldris loses before or after high noon?

The answer is as it’s always been it depends on the time and Escanor would lose at any time that isn’t high noon.

Depends,
If you take away T O

Then take away,
DK magic.


W/O dk magic,
Long range atk = Works

Besides,
T O > Zel+DK magic (still)

 

[Meliodaf]

Depends,
If you take away T O

Then take away,
DK magic.


W/O dk magic,
Long range atk = Works

Besides,
T O > Zel+DK magic (still)

I didn’t take The One away but Escanor’s ability is dependent. Unless the fight starts at 12 he’s going to lose. It’s like Meliodas. Escanor is weaker for 23 hours and 59 minutes.

And I honestly believe if we take away the DKs magic and The One, Escanor would still lose.

 

[lindananahayashida]

I didn’t take The One away but Escanor’s ability is dependent. Unless the fight starts at 12 he’s going to lose. It’s like Meliodas. Escanor is weaker for 23 hours and 59 minutes.

Escanor can = Bury his legs & wait!
(Till 12)

 

[AvatarReiko]

`No, he can't. Not even Mel could beat the The One and he's way stronger than Zel as shown in their fight

 

[Bøjan]

`No, he can't. Not even Mel could beat the The One and he's way stronger than Zel as shown in their fight

The Meliodas when he fought Escanor is way weaker than the Meliodas that fought Zeldris. I'm pretty sure that Zeldris would've won against the unawakened AM Meliodas.

 

[Demonspeed]

The The recent chapter proved that Zeldris, and I would say even the masters can defeat Escanor at 11:59 AM. Zeldris was clearly stronger and Escanor's Prominence Burn didn't really overwhelm the masters. I didn't think he was that close to his peak.

Can he beat The One with his current feats? No. If their memories of Mael had returned I would have bet on a Zeldris's transformation but it's not the case. We know the two of them will be fine.