Discussion CP0

[Razh]

I'd love to see Lucci, Kaku, Jabra and Blueno again and much stronger.

And Kalifa, don't forget Kalifa...

Seriously, I'd like to see what kind of crazy moves Kaku thought of during 2 years, considering all the crazy shit he thought of during several hours of having the fruit.

 

[0Xellos]

And Kalifa, don't forget Kalifa...

Seriously, I'd like to see what kind of crazy moves Kaku thought of during 2 years, considering all the crazy shit he thought of during several hours of having the fruit.

Minecraft's got nothing on him now

 

[Schabrak]

Now that's a good point.
Jozu has the diamond paramecia along with the ability to fight Logia's.
Aokiji from what we saw, was unable to take out Jozu until Jozu was distracted and looked away from the battle between them.
Implying Jozu was giving Aokiji a good and serious fight. Jozu fought on par with Aokiji for a good while.
Jozu took a point-blank range sandstorm from Crocodile and came out practically uninjured.
He blocked
Jozu is VA level
What more evidence do you need?.

Why not admiral? Do not forget that Sakazuki and Kuzan are similarly strong, I don't see why those two couldn't be nearly/on par with the individual Yonkou now, Blackbeard excluded.

 

[Ninomiya]

Why not admiral? Do not forget that Sakazuki and Kuzan are similarly strong, I don't see why those two couldn't be nearly/on par with the individual Yonkou now, Blackbeard excluded.

Sure.
I wasn't clear or rather I didn't even it. But I meant VA at the minimum or VA at the least.

And sure Aokiji could fight a Yonkou, perhaps with Jozu, although it will be tough on Jozu since Aokiji caused the loss of his arm.
(I think Aokiji is a little brat anyway. Had his life spared and all. He just exists on Sakazuki's kindness)
I also want to see the true wrath of Big Mam before we can really say how dangerous the individual Yonkou is.
Like how far is Luffy away from them in Power? Is he a few power-ups away? Or is he so far away he would get shutdown like on Sabaody?

In terms of ranking, how many people do you think are Admiral level out there right now?
By Admiral level I mean on par with Kizaru/Aokiji/Sakazuki
I'm saying Doflamingo, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Benn Beckmann off head.

(Garp, Sengoku and Issho needn't be included since we know their deal).

Seriously, I'd like to see what kind of crazy moves Kaku thought of during 2 years, considering all the crazy shit he thought of during several hours of having the fruit.

I just realized Kalifa and Kaku never got their deserved props for this!
They got their fruits only hours before their 1-on-1 fights. They were pretty awesome for that.
Had they had years to use their fruit like Luffy had for example, they would have been seriously dangerous opponents.
Considering they are now living an almost Pirate life, coming into contact with Pirate crews and simply fighting them and no longer have govt aid in anyway anymore they are probably getting stronger like how any SuperRookie crew would.

 

[MBVC]

Why not admiral? Do not forget that Sakazuki and Kuzan are similarly strong, I don't see why those two couldn't be nearly/on par with the individual Yonkou now, Blackbeard excluded.

I believe Kuzan fought almost equal to WB because the man was becoming old and weaken with deadly disease, stabbing by a weakling; even Marco stated that WB wouldn't had allowed stabbing to happen if he had had his original power 20 years ago. Hence I think the admirals are still one lower level than the yonkou. Another example is why did it take both Garp and Sengoku to fight Shiki even though both of them surpassed admiral level strength ( 20 years older Garp >>> Marco = 1 admiral).


I prob rank Shanks above both Marco and the admirals, otherwise WG can send 2 admirals finish off one of a yonkou. There is another hard estimate, I think the head of the CP0 is almost at the admiral level if he was the same man who gave DD order to assassinate Moria, not sure whether Kong instructed DD to do it or the head of CP0 gave out the order, hmmm.

 

[kkck]

It is entirely possible that WB was altogether on a different class of his own before the the marineford war though. At large we saw him take out VAs like it was not big deal and the admirals could not really do anything to him at the start. WB was basically wore down all through the war until he died. To be honest I don't think anyone in the war actually ever fought on his level, not even akainu. Kuzan got a clean hit on WB and froze him but that did not even faze WB at the time. Just look at the final comments on him when he died... over 500 bullets, over 30 cannon balls and and a half blown head. The world government threw everything they had at WB and they barely killed him to be honest. Akainu even almost got killed a couple of times by WB if I recall.

 

[HereNThere]

I believe Kuzan fought almost equal to WB because the man was becoming old and weaken with deadly disease, stabbing by a weakling; even Marco stated that WB wouldn't had allowed stabbing to happen if he had had his original power 20 years ago. Hence I think the admirals are still one lower level than the yonkou. Another example is why did it take both Garp and Sengoku to fight Shiki even though both of them surpassed admiral level strength ( 20 years older Garp >>> Marco = 1 admiral).

I'm just going to jump in here and say that the Admirals were holding back during Marineford. They were at their main base and were already trying to limit the damage done by Whitebeard, plus there were allies around. Punk Hazard has already shown us that an Admiral using full power could have long term effects on the environment itself so I don't think it's a fair assessment to say that they are a tier lower. I think they are even in strength. While Whitebeard wasn't able to be taken out by an Admiral, he himself couldn't take one out either.

Garp and Sengoku probably thought it'd easier, quicker, and do less damage if they both took on Shiki. Add that to the fact that it'd lower the chances of either of them being injured to a great degree if Shiki was close to Roger's strength. It wouldn't be smart to just let one of them fight against him when he is a threat to the base and Roger's execution.

It is entirely possible that WB was altogether on a different class of his own before the the marineford war though. At large we saw him take out VAs like it was not big deal and the admirals could not really do anything to him at the start. WB was basically wore down all through the war until he died. To be honest I don't think anyone in the war actually ever fought on his level, not even akainu. Kuzan got a clean hit on WB and froze him but that did not even faze WB at the time. Just look at the final comments on him when he died... over 500 bullets, over 30 cannon balls and and a half blown head. The world government threw everything they had at WB and they barely killed him to be honest. Akainu even almost got killed a couple of times by WB if I recall.

Again, I think they were holding back for the most part. The Admirals had to have been holding back and weren't letting loose like he was as it was their job to protect the base and make sure Ace was executed. Despite the damage he took they didn't throw everything at him. Garp and Sengoku didn't even fight him and again, the Admirals were holding back. Akainu was hit by what I'm assuming to be a haki and quake infused punch twice and got up soon after no worse for wear. He may have been down for a minute, but it didn't end him.

 

[Azuma]

Akainu is not the type that would hold back in the war. He was practically going crazy all over, shooting his Magma hands, killing his comrades that wanted to escape etc. And WB almost beat him to death, he didn't simply 'get up soon after no worse for wear'. He was bleeding all over and almost fell down one of the cracks.

 

[Ex-Shadow]

I'm just going to jump in here and say that the Admirals were holding back during Marineford. They were at their main base and were already trying to limit the damage done by Whitebeard, plus there were allies around. Punk Hazard has already shown us that an Admiral using full power could have long term effects on the environment itself so I don't think it's a fair assessment to say that they are a tier lower. I think they are even in strength. While Whitebeard wasn't able to be taken out by an Admiral, he himself couldn't take one out either.

Garp and Sengoku probably thought it'd easier, quicker, and do less damage if they both took on Shiki. Add that to the fact that it'd lower the chances of either of them being injured to a great degree if Shiki was close to Roger's strength. It wouldn't be smart to just let one of them fight against him when he is a threat to the base and Roger's execution.

Again, I think they were holding back for the most part. The Admirals had to have been holding back and weren't letting loose like he was as it was their job to protect the base and make sure Ace was executed. Despite the damage he took they didn't throw everything at him. Garp and Sengoku didn't even fight him and again, the Admirals were holding back. Akainu was hit by what I'm assuming to be a haki and quake infused punch twice and got up soon after no worse for wear. He may have been down for a minute, but it didn't end him.

Hmm.. I don't know about Kuzan and Borsalino. But I don't think Sakazuki was holding back one bit. He seemed to use all of his power to kill Whitebeard. From what I see, the reason Garp and Sengoku didn't actively join the war was that they had similar problem like Whitebeard. Both of them were old fighter and as strong as they are, they can't match the stamina of Kuzan, Sakazuki, and Borsalino. Another reason is if they left their post, Marco can freed Ace easily. That's also the reason why Borsalino is the one who fought Marco back then. Were Marco decide to fly as high as he can, only Borsalino could pursue him. Maybe that's also the reason why Marine need Garp and Sengoku to fought Shiki. It's so that one could pursue and the other set up an ambush.

PS: BTW guys, isn't this post OOT? CP0?

 

[kkck]

Akainu does not strike me as the type to hold back to be honest. He was willing to fight even after sengoku put an end to the thing and had taken severe blows from WB. More than anything, I don't think the admirals could actually afford to hold back. True, they had to protect the platform which they did but through the war they still did well more than that and halfway through it none of them was even near the platform. It still had garp and sengoku after all. And sengoku did fight, he took on all the BB pirates. If they had not been there things might have been even worst for the pirates by the end.

 

[HereNThere]

Akainu is not the type that would hold back in the war. He was practically going crazy all over, shooting his Magma hands, killing his comrades that wanted to escape etc. And WB almost beat him to death, he didn't simply 'get up soon after no worse for wear'. He was bleeding all over and almost fell down one of the cracks.

Powerwise, he held back in my opinion. I'm going off the amount of damage he and Kuzan's power did on Punk Hazard. That to me says that when they go all out, there are wide reaching effects on the environment. Granted, their fight lasted what? A week or so? The fact that their power affected the whole island as well as the surrounding ocean, says a lot. I'm sure if he wanted to he could have set the whole of Marineford and it's surrounding ocean ablaze should he have felt the need to. Akainu didn't look near death to me. He was briefly incapacitated, but he came back in pretty good shape.

Hmm.. I don't know about Kuzan and Borsalino. But I don't think Sakazuki was holding back one bit. He seemed to use all of his power to kill Whitebeard. From what I see, the reason Garp and Sengoku didn't actively join the war was that they had similar problem like Whitebeard. Both of them were old fighter and as strong as they are, they can't match the stamina of Kuzan, Sakazuki, and Borsalino. Another reason is if they left their post, Marco can freed Ace easily. That's also the reason why Borsalino is the one who fought Marco back then. Were Marco decide to fly as high as he can, only Borsalino could pursue him. Maybe that's also the reason why Marine need Garp and Sengoku to fought Shiki. It's so that one could pursue and the other set up an ambush.

Garp and Sengoku weren't sick like WB, so I don't think stamina was their problem. They were indeed there as the last line of defense for Ace as we saw Sengoku and Garp attack Luffy when he reached the scaffold. But imagine if they had gotten down and dirty like the Admirals and commanders though...

Akainu does not strike me as the type to hold back to be honest. He was willing to fight even after sengoku put an end to the thing and had taken severe blows from WB. More than anything, I don't think the admirals could actually afford to hold back. True, they had to protect the platform which they did but through the war they still did well more than that and halfway through it none of them was even near the platform. It still had garp and sengoku after all. And sengoku did fight, he took on all the BB pirates. If they had not been there things might have been even worst for the pirates by the end.

I believe they toned down the scale of their attacks to preserve the island. I do see your point in not being able to afford holding back, but I still think they did. Punk Hazard keeps me from believing any of the Admirals went all out. I don't even think WB was able to go all out like he wanted to. I mean, the man tilted the seas around him and never showed anything more like that throughout the war. Sengoku didn't plan on fighting BB though. You said the marines had thrown everything at WB and I disagreed, saying the marines still had Garp and Sengoku on the back burner, should they have been needed.

PS: BTW guys, isn't this post OOT? CP0?

Yeah we should probably move this elsewhere.

 

[kkck]

I don't see how it can be said WB did not fully intend to destroy marineford.... I mean, his initial move was to actually start 2 tsunami's against the island and he actually dared sengoku to prevent him from sinking it. There was even point where the pirates were trapped inside that iron barrier and even WB could not destroy it with his power. His actual rampage started after he got stabbed however all through the war it did seem like he was trying his best.

Well, my point with sengoku was that he was distracted by BB and if that had not been the case he would have joined the fray. Garp not joining the fray was more of his choice than anything else, the marines themselves did not actually hold him back. He just pretended to have been taken out by luffy after all (and I guess even sengoku did not have it in him to force garp to act to have ace and luffy murdered).

there is also the consideration that at least before ace was removed from the gaol it was sengoku who was calling the shots in the war. He was the one organizing the traps and coordinating marine movements. It wasn't so much as him being held back as much as it was that he was the commander in chief and was the only one with the sense and authority to make decisions there. Even then, the admirals were nowhere near ace when the pirates started fighting in the giancorde plaza (I am not 100% sure of that name) and from that point onward we saw all the admirals fighting multiple people, mainly WB and the commanders.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yeah we should probably move this elsewhere.

No its fine, we're comparing the ranks of Admiral, Yonkou, Vice-Admiral in relation to where we expect the CP0's strength to be.
That's how this all started.

 

[Schabrak]

All because I questioned Jozus power level to probably be around an admirals? -_- Yeah it's become OOT as we haven't compared any of those lastly named characters to those white suits, while not having even seen them in action yet.

 

[Ninomiya]

All because I questioned Jozus power level to probably be around an admirals? -_- Yeah it's become OOT as we haven't compared any of those lastly named characters to those white suits, while not having even seen them in action yet.

No, you didn't start this. Don't get carried away or flatter yourself.
We were discussing whether or not Lucci was VA level before then, because Lucci is the strongest of CP9, if we agreed that Lucci was VA level then it means we could expect the strongest of CP0 to even be of the Admiral level.
So no it isn't as bad that guy who claimed it was OOT thought. Otherwise the mods would have obviously intervened.

Back to where we were, which was discussing the power of the Admiral level characters in the series to measure the level of power we expect at least 1 of the CP0 characters should be.
Like I said before, I'm expecting at least a few strong members to spearhead the attack of the CP0 just like Lucci, Kaku and Jabra did for CP9.
We haven't had a serious 1-on-1 for Sanji in Part II yet so I'm expecting this to be his arc to shine.
I want somebody at higher VA level-minimum to fight Sanji.

 

[MBVC]

I'm not even sure Lucci can win against Smoker both in pre-war, so it depends on some special circumstances when we compare one character with another one, Vergo is out of question, Lucci wasn't powerful enough to damage that harden body. Now get back to the main question: how strong are the members of CP0, at least all of them know how to use haki otherwise they can't do anything in NW, this means the weakest member is stronger than Lucci and in the level of VA. If the head of the CP0 has the same authority as Sengoku or even higher then I expect the power must also match up as well, we can compare him with Fujitora or Marco in term of strength or maybe not, it's still too early to tell but at least no one in CP0 is weaker than Lucci otherwise Law doesn't give a damn about their showing up on the island.

 

[HereNThere]

The best agent in CP0 should be a strong fighter similar to Lucci in Paradise. I can see that agent being around admiral level maybe, but I'm not quite sure about the rest. I do know that they should all be stronger than pre-timeskip Lucci. As I stated earlier I expect their abilities to be a combo of both haki and rokushiki, maybe a revised version of it. Or maybe a martial arts based on different haki applications. And yes Airgrimes, Sanji has been way overdue for a true New World battle. I will be serioiusly disappointed if he gets the screws put to him again.

I don't see how it can be said WB did not fully intend to destroy marineford.... I mean, his initial move was to actually start 2 tsunami's against the island and he actually dared sengoku to prevent him from sinking it. There was even point where the pirates were trapped inside that iron barrier and even WB could not destroy it with his power. His actual rampage started after he got stabbed however all through the war it did seem like he was trying his best.

Which was just aimed directly at Marineford before anyone of his allies step foot on the island. Which bring up the question as to why he did that when Ace was still on the platform. I'm just going to assume that he was going to let Marco go and pick him up before the waves actually hit...hopefully. His rampage was awesome, but he was kinda dying too so I still don't feel like he was able to go all out. His hits on Akainu seemed to be the strongest hits he delivered throughout the whole war.

Well, my point with sengoku was that he was distracted by BB and if that had not been the case he would have joined the fray. Garp not joining the fray was more of his choice than anything else, the marines themselves did not actually hold him back. He just pretended to have been taken out by luffy after all (and I guess even sengoku did not have it in him to force garp to act to have ace and luffy murdered).

Which is a good point, but had their hand been forced, I'm sure they would not have hesitated to jump in to the fight.

 

[MBVC]

Honestly speaking, Sengoku didn't go all out fighting Luffy, otherwise Luffy would have received something more than just an ordinary punch which didn't have enough power to knock him out completely. I think the main point is that the admirals are still weaker than WB in term of 1-1, otherwise all 3 of them could finish off the old man while Garp took care the rest easily without any fighting back, not to mention the shichibukai also joined in the slaughter too.

 

[Schabrak]

No, you didn't start this. Don't get carried away or flatter yourself.
We were discussing whether or not Lucci was VA level before then, because Lucci is the strongest of CP9, if we agreed that Lucci was VA level then it means we could expect the strongest of CP0 to even be of the Admiral level.
So no it isn't as bad that guy who claimed it was OOT thought. Otherwise the mods would have obviously intervened.

I will flatter my self as much as I want. I nudged it into the Jozu admiral discussion[again] and added comparisons to Sakazuki and Kuzan, which lead to their inclusion in the current discussion again.

All this "level talk" is sooo not One Piece, could we end that, as we have neither doriki levels nor fights to compare characters like Akainu, Kizaru, Kuzan, Garp, Sengoku with each other or those lower ranked? Does anyone believe that Fujitora was not worthy of his rank two years ago? Would have a VA rank made him weak back than? No. The huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge range of viceadmirals, as those are the only reliable force for the Marines in the New World, will make up the majority of marines that the Mugiwaras will have problems with, not the admirals, not after Fujitora has appeared already and shown intentions to keep his mission and Luffy apart for now. At times like that I'm sad about the introduction of haki, it started all this comparability bullshit that was never really present in OP discussions before!

But why would the World Government have such capable character/s and not have much more power in the NW before? A person comparable to Borsalino in strength with Haki and Rokushiki would be perfect for assasinations and destabilization of Yonkou controlled countries/islands. I would abuse those agents to no end and try to bring those pirates up against each other, but no such thing is hinted to until now. All we know is that Akainu started to militarize the Marines and only started to conquer the New World when he got promoted to fleet admiral.

Does anyone think that CP0 will after this arc? Will they be of importance? If one of the is as strong as the current admirals, who is supposed to fight them with so much else going on all around the island already? Personally I can't see how any of those could be stronger than Doflamingo, that would devaluate him in an arc that's about himself.

Yeah, I promote a shift from the strenght/power talk to one including the actual plot and story. :P

 

[MBVC]

"But why would the World Government have such capable character/s and not have much more power in the NW before? A person comparable to Borsalino in strength with Haki and Rokushiki would be perfect for assasinations and destabilization of Yonkou controlled countries/islands. I would abuse those agents to no end and try to bring those pirates up against each other, but no such thing is hinted to until now. All we know is that Akainu started to militarize the Marines and only started to conquer the New World when he got promoted to fleet admiral.

Does anyone think that CP0 will after this arc? Will they be of importance? If one of the is as strong as the current admirals, who is supposed to fight them with so much else going on all around the island already? Personally I can't see how any of those could be stronger than Doflamingo, that would devaluate him in an arc that's about himself."


I think because the WG has to deal with Dragon and if one of the yonkou is murdered by an agent of WG, then there might be a possibility that 2 of the yonkou will join force to take out WG with some help from Dragon.

All right, so we have Fujitora, DD, and the strongest of CP0, Burgess, some strong fighters in this tournament, DD's 4 generals; on the other hand we have Law, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and the rest of the crew, then how do you match up this balance?