Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[Ninja_Pirate]

Comparing how they fight against one type of enemy isn't an effective way of determining who's the strongest.

I never said its an effective way.. i said its a way...

Strength can also be determined with experience.. considering that Brooke is the most experienced straw hat and he has lived in the time when Roger was just a rookie.. Brrok is smart as well.. he knew that since now he is just bones he cant work on his strength as bones never can be shaped and get six packs and all,,, in two year time skip he chose to develop his music... Best thing i like about SHs is they all know what they can do and work on that only... Usopp has got back to improving his shooting skills rather than poking his nose in maintenance of the ship as franky joined in...

 

[hokageji]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

I am expecting Zoro to be close to Mihawk level, having said that, Zoro should be easily able to beat any fishmen with ease. But, I guess SH's will have to win over circumstances more than raw power to prove their growths in this arc, leaving pure battle arcs for the new world.

 

[chess4]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

I am expecting Zoro to be close to Mihawk level, having said that, Zoro should be easily able to beat any fishmen with ease. But, I guess SH's will have to win over circumstances more than raw power to prove their growths in this arc, leaving pure battle arcs for the new world.

not even close..zoo still has a long way to go. yea he beat the fishman but mihawk is the best and he was in his league now then the that just dismisses the the new world completely

 

[Zeltrax]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

Saying zoro being close to mihawk is like saying luffy finished sailing the new world
and is going to become the pirate king soon...which unfortunately he is not.

 

[Kyo3ooo]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

What you say would be right if we were sure Zoro would reach his gaol at the same time as the others (Luffy ...)
For all we know, Zoro could've already beaten Mihawk (getting a 40mil raise in bounty and a scar) ... Zoro may also die in this arc and never reach his goal. Anything can happen.
Remember manga chapter 4 (or 5 Maybe), Luffy tells Zoro : Well, it would be embarassing for the Priate King's partner not achieve such a "small feat" ... Could be sacrasm, yes. But it could also hold a deep meaning : Being the world's strongest swordsman is just a step.
Anyways, I just hope people stop thinking "mechanically" : Luffy is still far from the end of the Grand Line --> he is far from reaching One Piece -> Far from his dream -> Zoro is therefore not at Mihawk's level.
If the whole Manga was like that, then it'd be bornig =/

 

[hokageji]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

Zoro's dream is to be the worlds strongest swordsmen.

As we know it, Mihawk is the world's strongest, and training under him would have got him close.

But, Zoros feels its more important to make Luffy the pirate kind, the whole crew think of it as their gaol.

Zoro does have a long way to go, there are still lots of swordsmen he will have to beat. Vista, swordsmen at Wano and Shiriyuu, all these guys are close to Mihawk level.

 

[Naruffy]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

It'd be kind of lame if Zoro could already beat Mihawk, which he can't. I he had that power, he'd of sliced Hodi in two. They still have the New World to explore, and we know that by the end of that he'll be strong enough to beat Mihawk.

Also, I'd be surprised if Luffy didn't sleep during Jimbei's history lesson. We all know Luffy as a man of action and he was bound to get bored just sitting there listening to jimbei's story.

 

[Ninja_Pirate]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

Lol- this is how topics get invented when oda gives a break without anything to discuss - my few cents on zoro- It doesn't matter if he has surpassed mihawk or not since initially it might have been his dream but now his final dream has become to make luffy the pirate king.. two years back it was told in manga that mihawk is the strongest swordsman .. but we dont know if he still is and we will find that soner or later


ON TOPIC - .... Lot of chances that after hearing the announcement luffy will say- so i have to kick this guy's ass..

 

[matzik1212]

Re: One Piece 627 Discussion / 628 Predicition

mihawk is a swordsman that won't be surpassed many years in OP world IMO and i'm positive that the only one who will be able to surpass him in the end will be zoro and no one else , at least that would be the most fitting thing to happen
also zoro's strength can't be compared to mihawk's yet just like we can't compare luffy with rayleigh ....i mean even though they trained hard this 2y they can't possibly compare to their teachers who worked their entire lives to reach that lvl of power .... it would be absurd
anyway we can figure to a certain point every SH's lvl of power when we'll see them fight and that is the only thing i'm dying to see ....hopefully next chapter the action starts and luffy will go to kick hodi's ass big time

 

[KnivesTaichou]

I aspect Luffy o be able to proficently use Haki. FOr Zoro to be able to cut things. For sanji to be able to kick really hard and run really fast. For Usopp to have better battle instinct be faster, Stronger and have new weapons.

 

[cheddarpretzels]

The island that Usopp was on ate everything. That gave me the idea that maybe...just maybe, devil fruits have also been eaten. If that's possible, maybe Usopp and Hercules'n went underground or into the stomach and gave the fruit to his new weaopn.... It's a pretty crazy theory but it could be awesome.

 

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

Well, luffy basically blits and overpowered a pacifista with a little haki and a partial gear two, somehow I think a horde of pacifista could not actually take him right now. Can you imagine what his jet gattling would do to a squadron of them? How about his gear 3 lol? Sanji and zoro seem to be on the same league..... Then again, it was already implied the pacifista have been upgraded a great deal in the last two years so perhaps it won't be so simple next time.

I also think brook is being grossly underestimated. Whatever upgrade he had over the last 2 years has been so far more conspicuous than the rest of the strawhats but I do doubt he did not get anything. He already has shown great speed and swordsmanship overall (his physical capacities are not as good obviously but in turn his actual technique is more than a match to zoro's as we saw when ryuma fought). His music has power too which is no small deal, probably that is behind his fame over the last two years. Overall brook is IMO the fifth strongest strawhat right after franky.

are u seriously suggesting brooke and franky are stronger than robin? that brooke is stronger than chopper with his rumble?...Am sorry...I just don't wanna believe that

---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

For all we know, Zoro could've already beaten Mihawk (getting a 40mil raise in bounty and a scar) .=/

I don't know about everything else u just said but am pretty sure beating Mihawk is not a 40 million event....crocodiles minion got him 60 mil after all

 

[zelllogan]

Brook did save Franky & Robin from that spider back in thriller bark. Franky did almost no damage using those use huge nunjakus ... Brook cut the spider in two with little to no effort. But there are also other examples where Franky did more damage than Brook but overall, those three are in the same league.

And I'm not yet tired enough to repeat this: Chopper/Usopp/Nami are the WEAK TRIO, it's a manga fact, accept it.
They are now extremely strong after the timeskip but at the new "strawhat level", they are still the weak trio.

Chopper , even in Monster Point, is not even close to Franky, Brook, Robin. Franky has no problems at all to deal with Chopper in Monster Point in Enies Lobby. Monster point is huge strength but no defense ...
There is a gap between each trio and it's a huge one.

Monster trio (named that way in the manga)
...
GAP
...
Unnamed trio
...
GAP
...
Weak trio (named that way in the manga).

As long as Oda is not changing his own terminology of Weak & Monster trio, the power levels among strawhats are clear.

 

[Schabrak]

Just saying, it doesn't make much sense to argue about capabilities, which were last seen two years ago and just two weeks/one chapterf before we see them go all out again. Ussop and Nami of the "Weak Trio" will never have the physical strength as the rest, but we will have to seen how much they have developed by fightin under different circumstances.

 

[kkck]

Robin has never even been strong to begin with. She has made good practical use of her fruit but her actual physical capacities are that of a normal human at least before the timeskip. In turn it is pretty obvious brook had superhuman capacities long before the timeskip. Robin defeating brook? That´s laughable IMO. Robin defeating franky? Thats absurd.... At least before the timeskip robin was never even a fighting member of the strawhats, her one fight took place at skypeia an since that she has been outside the battlefield simply because she is not a fighter. I agree in that she might have been stronger than chopper, nami or ussop but..... they were fodder to begin with. Even after the timeskip brook should be more of a fighter than robin.

 

[zelllogan]

Robin has never even been strong to begin with. She has made good practical use of her fruit but her actual physical capacities are that of a normal human at least before the timeskip. In turn it is pretty obvious brook had superhuman capacities long before the timeskip. Robin defeating brook? That´s laughable IMO. Robin defeating franky? Thats absurd.... At least before the timeskip robin was never even a fighting member of the strawhats, her one fight took place at skypeia an since that she has been outside the battlefield simply because she is not a fighter. I agree in that she might have been stronger than chopper, nami or ussop but..... they were fodder to begin with. Even after the timeskip brook should be more of a fighter than robin.

IMO, you're underestimating Robin a lot. I agree she is not the fighter type but her devil fruit alone is "hax" enough.
She doesn't need a strong physical body. In order to simulate physical strength, she only needs to grow more arms compacted together ...
Her devil fruit is just too much: flight, gigantic arm (formed by multiple normal arms), cloning, growing body parts on anything, limit/restrict movements & she's clever enough to use it well.

IMO, both Brook & Robin are underestimated ... while Franky is often overrated (and Usopp almost always) ... and I come back to my usual ranking ...

 

[kkck]

I guess it could be a bit like the crocodile situation who is a threat not because of his sheer physical capacities but rather because of his DF mastery but even then the limitations of having an actually weak body will eventually become notorius. Can´t say about part 2 but at least in part 1 she never displayed superhuman capacities. In this regard her strength, stamina and speed were not significantly above that of a normal person. Brook displayed insane speed and fantastic swordsmanship, franky is clearly superhuman and the monster trio are significantly above that apparently. A lone hit from one of them would be more than enough to one shot robin. Heck, they should be more than capable of blitzing her with speed alone. More importantly, damage done to her body parts is transfered to her read body. How easy would it be for this superhuman bastards to break her arm? Extremely to say the least, at their level a human bone should be no more complicated than a twig. Also, didn´t oda actually state franky was the fourth strongest strawhat?

 

[Schabrak]

kkck
Would you stop stating unprovable outcomes. We absolutely don't know how they would fight with their upgraded powers. If you take away Robin's powers, you should put away Frankys cyborg enhancements too, just as well as Brooks speed due to being a skeleton 'cause of his DF. How easy would it be for her to take them down now? Nobody but Oda knows. Remember how easily she handled Jinbe and Luffy or saved them from crashing into a rock when they fought Surume.

 

[kkck]

I wasn´t talking about part 2, I was talking about what we saw in part one for the most part. Heck, I actually wrote "Can´t say about part 2 but at least in part 1...". Also, I didn´t take away anyone´s powers, I merely said robin´s actual physical capacities are not significantly superior to that of a normal person. Robin creates several of her arms, meaning that each of them has the strength of her original ones. Her ability to merge arms into a bigger arm is a non issue with what I wrote. Also, she didn´t handle luffy or jinbe, she merely used her ability to get in between them and disappear before they actually clashed.

On another note, I do very much doubt oda had the slightest intention of changing the status quo in the crew.

 

[zelllogan]

On another note, I do very much doubt oda had the slightest intention of changing the status quo in the crew.

I agree. Ranking among strawhats will remain the same. Among the current members, there is a monster trio & a weak trio and that will not change. Of course, there might be additional characters in the future joining either the weak ones or the monster ones.

The ranking among current members won't change for several reasons:
- Oda won't take the risk to highlight a single member of the weak trio. All members of the strawhats are important and there is a real balance between members. Trying to break this balance is too risky.
- It wouldn't be coherent to see a member of the weak trio entering the league of the monster trio (or vice versa).
- Last chapter, we have the weak trio reunited in the sunny-go while others get ready to rumble ... For me, it's already enough to convince me that the weak trio is still the weak trio.

Now I will try to explain again the HUGE GAP between each trio.

The monster trio:
- Just compare the douriki level of their opponents in Enies Lobby & the douriki level of the others ... That alone should be enough to convince anyone that no one is even close to those three:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v40/c379/6.html

- The reaction from Franky & Brook when Zoro fought Ryuma. They immediatly understood what kind of monster Zoro is.
Brook & Franky begin to understand here:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v48/c467/2.html
Remark that Franky didn't even see Zoro's counter-attack ... (By the way, the underrated Brook did see the counter-attack)

- Still in Thriller Bark, mere copies of Sanji & Zoro had no trouble with Chopper & Robin:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v48/c468/2.html1

The weak trio:
- Chopper & Franky had similar opponents in terms of douriki ... and Chopper just couldn't do anything in front of Kumadori ... and out of despair he used "Monster Point" ... while Franky trashed Fukourou once he had his cola fuel tank back to normal.

- By the way, the way too overrated "Monster Point": This is what it takes to Franky to counter it:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v43/c412/17.html
As I said before, Monster Point is giving Chopper incredible strength but absolutely no defense against serious opponents. So, Monster Point is not an answer for Chopper.

- What have in common absolutely ALL 1vs1 opponents of Nami, Usopp & Chopper in the manga ? Utter stupidity and utter arrogance towards the opponent. That's the only way they can win against strong opponents. Chu, Gedatsu, ... and last but not least Kalifa ...

- I won't even bother to gather all moments in the manga where those three were just displayed as weak. There are so many examples ... A little one everyone forgot: in the Merry-go in Skypiea, Zoro, Robin & Nami decided to leave to explore while Chopper stayed with the ship. Zoro & Robin are playing Tarzan and then It's Nami's turn. Nami is scared to death & seen crying ... Just afterwards, Chopper realize he is alone on the ship, he is scared to death too. I remind this only because I was just watching the Skypiea arc some weeks ago.

- Based on my last example, I can also talk about an other weakness of those 3: their mindset. Robin is not a fighter but she maintain her composure in battle in any situation. At some point, the weak trio is ALWAYS getting scared or heavily surprised by what they witness.

Average Trio
I already said enough in the last sections ... but I add this to support what I said in a earlier post:
- Brook as weak as the weak trio ? Brook weaker than Robin & Franky ?
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v47/c454/16.html

Enough said