Discussion Detailed Power Ranking and commentaries

[weixiaobao]

Moderator Notice:
Since there is a pretty similar thread already existing, even opened by the same member, i merged the two~ MiyamotoMusashi

Please unmerge, I send you the reasons why in the pm.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

I havent seen your post on this thread eefrit, I dashed trought the first page and most comments seemed silly in their own rights.

Weigh classes? Lol i saw an admiral not being placed in an admiral class? lolwut?

Which first page, it all goddam confuse now since two different threads are merge (one with outdated knowledge).

Also, I applaud your reading comprehension hence you didn't see the Admiral = A+, A, A-
Since you can't even comprehend such simple logic. Your comment weigh as much as a monkey. Except, I like monkeys.

 

[7pac]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Shouldn't God Eneru be in the B tier as he wouldn't be able to be touched by 90% in the B- tier since he uses logia type and 90% of the people can't use Haki.

Furthermore he is a master of observational Haki (mantra).

Also how is Law in the same tier as Smoker (who he defeated easily) and Vergo (who he defeated even more easily)?

lolwut? Vergo is stronger then Law, he got cocky, re-read the match, Vergo clearly has better endurance, and is quicker.
I wouldn't say Smokers fight was easy too, lol.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Shouldn't God Eneru be in the B tier as he wouldn't be able to be touched by 90% in the B- tier since he uses logia type and 90% of the people can't use Haki.

Furthermore he is a master of observational Haki (mantra).

You should follow the existing debate about Eneru. He is an extremely difficult to rank. And people admit that he should be in either B or B-. Either is still logically acceptable. But I decided that he is in B-. Because he can be fodderize by a couple of people in B (but those same people cannot fodderize others on that B tier). And he can't beat everyone on B-.

Also how is Law in the same tier as Smoker (who he defeated easily) and Vergo (who he defeated even more easily)?

The goal is not to create a zillion of tiers. If you create tier base on who wins an individual match, it would be a nightmare and it would some 30 different power tier. Like I said before on many occasion for various of people, that you should compare an individual character to the characters above and below that level. Do they lose to 95% of the people above them? Do they win 95% against the people below them?

No one even argue with you Law beats Smoker and Vergo (in the manga). But can Law beats Smoker and Vergo every single matches? Once you give me such evidences, then maybe I consider.

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

For example we all know how strong Mihawk is, and yet he can't do much against someone like Buggy who is immune to cuts. Another example is pretty obvious. Luffy vs Enel.
I think it's pointless to compare characters based on power levels, since there are other things that come into consideration, mostly DFs strengths and weaknesses.

Thank you Einstein for pointing out the obvious that I do take DF strengths and weaknesses into consideration.

This is like some said Buggy is not gonna lose to Law except Law could just switch Buggy with a log in water.

Mihawk could cut up a mountain and how would Buggy dodge that. It doesn't matter how much is separate, he will be squash like a bug. And Buggy doesn't shown to have the speed to dodge that either. Mihawk could break the ground that Buggy stand on and create a sink hole. Buggy cannot fly. He imitated flying.

Luffy had punch Buggy before correct? So what if Mihawk resulted in punching and kicking. Have some imagination.

As much as I love Einstein, I respectfully disagree on your statement that this thread is pointless.


---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

Moderator Notice:
Since there is a pretty similar thread already existing, even opened by the same member, i merged the two~ MiyamotoMusashi

After unmerge, you can close the old thread. Or delete it, whatever you wish.

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

The only character that I think are slightly stronger are the Pacifista and Fisher Tiger, whom I think should be in B- anyway.

It seems the most rational people on this thread are still you and Impossibility. This make sense base on what you think. And I agree if I agree with your assessment if I move Rob Lucci, I would have to move the Pacifista and Fisher Tiger. But then I would argue, if Luffy had a rematch with Lucci. He can still win. Maybe not all of the time, but some of the time. Then I would argue since Law and Kidd was portrayed as roughly equivalent to Luffy. I would have to move Luffy, Kidd, and Law up to B- too. Would that convoluted B- tier? And people already have a problem with B- being convoluted as it is.

So if you can give me this then I will consider. We have compare Lucci to quite a few people on B- tier, and frankly he isn't up to par. So who in B- you think he can beat? And would it be better to move those down to C+?

My point is that stronger folks can still get beaten by weaker folks.

I gonna move from the individual matches as a logic to base the ranking on. We have to take an average between the two. Jora can beat a lot of people if she can get her hax power on people. But then I weight with her other stats, and she ended up where she is.

On Monet, CC, and Lucci. I have no reason to believe that Lucci can endure a Gear 3 harden blows couple time like CC did. I do have a reason to believe he may able to possibly dodge one, but postskipped Luffy is way faster the preskipped Luffy. CC can dodge too, but he can't that one time because they were in restricted space. I said before that we have to look at these guys without their logia power. But then we do sort of have to consider their logia power. Monet can hug Lucci and Lucci can't do a thing to a Logia. As for CC, if Lucci get close there is the oxygen thing, and CC can spam his attacks on long distance. Lucci just need one slip up. And his Tekkai may partially endure one blow but not so many blows. I actually think your argument for Fisher Tiger had some merits. Keep going, you may change my mind.

Also, why do you think Montblanc and Calgara are stronger than Crocodile?

Montblanc and Calgara are about the same. So I just need to make a case for one of them, Montblanc's best feats including hunting those seakings in water (which not necessary unique but some high tier do that). There was an earthquake that split Java in half. Up course, one half was launch by knock up stream later on. During that same earthquake, Montblanc was caught in between the 2 parts of the island. Initially, he can't get out. But after being all fatigue, he did move 2 half of an islands (admitly just a little bit) at point blank. Recall Zoro and Luffy's feats at the end of Water 7, but this is just way more impressive. However, there is a point to be made to move those two down to B- and Fisher Tiger to B-. But you need to give me some reasons, though I am open to that possibility.

If you think I am being extremely sarcastic, yes, I am. I am doing that for people who comment like "I can't see the bigger picture," "There is no point for this," and or "suck balls" comments.

 

[HereNThere]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

It seems the most rational people on this thread are still you and Impossibility. This make sense base on what you think. And I agree if I agree with your assessment if I move Rob Lucci, I would have to move the Pacifista and Fisher Tiger. But then I would argue, if Luffy had a rematch with Lucci. He can still win. Maybe not all of the time, but some of the time. Then I would argue since Law and Kidd was portrayed as roughly equivalent to Luffy. I would have to move Luffy, Kidd, and Law up to B- too. Would that convoluted B- tier? And people already have a problem with B- being convoluted as it is.

I definetely agree with. That, Luffy wouldn't be able to win 100% of the time in fight against Lucci. Hell, Luffy might have really lost if Usopp hadn't inspired him to get up quicker. Luffy, Kidd, and Law could stay where they since we can pretty much assume they are the elite of the C tier. Lucci would be like the lowest of the B- tier. I think he could at least beat the Yeti Cool Brothers. And again, he has been praised by Shichibukai and Vice Admirals alike. I personally don't find the B- tier convoluted. That tier is pretty much the level you need to be at the face the New World and at the latter of the Pre Timeskip, a lot of people with that strength level started to appear.

So if you can give me this then I will consider. We have compare Lucci to quite a few people on B- tier, and frankly he isn't up to par. So who in B- you think he can beat? And would it be better to move those down to C+?

As I said, I think he can beat the Yeti Cool Brothers as well as Blue Gilly. I'm sure Hody with ES would give him as much trouble as Luffy did, though he could probably take him down. I don't think you have to move anyone down though, the rest seem to be fine where they stand.

On Monet, CC, and Lucci. I have no reason to believe that Lucci can endure a Gear 3 harden blows couple time like CC did. I do have a reason to believe he may able to possibly dodge one, but postskipped Luffy is way faster the preskipped Luffy. CC can dodge too, but he can't that one time because they were in restricted space. I said before that we have to look at these guys without their logia power. But then we do sort of have to consider their logia power. Monet can hug Lucci and Lucci can't do a thing to a Logia. As for CC, if Lucci get close there is the oxygen thing, and CC can spam his attacks on long distance. Lucci just need one slip up. And his Tekkai may partially endure one blow but not so many blows. I actually think your argument for Fisher Tiger had some merits. Keep going, you may change my mind.

I doubt Lucci could take a hardened Gear 3 hit as well since Luffy is definitely stronger than him post timeskip. CC only took one blow and even had the extra gas added to him body and was still knocked out. I expect Lucci to lose to a move like that. CC only relied on his Logia to dodge, so he isn't really physically fast. Luffy pretty much tagged him every chance he got. While Lucci is assuredly slower than Post Luffy, I think he's still faster than CC. Then he has more piercing and slashing moves that would really affect Ceasar, unlike Luffy who uses his fist. As of his Oxygen move, Lucci's a pretty smart guy and he should be able to Soru out of the affected radius. Though he would fall to the Gas Robe and the sword. As for Monet, although it hasn't been confirmed, I would think Life Return could offer some interesting possibilities, seeing as it allows one to control bodily functions, which in theory should allow Lucci to retain some body heat. That is, of course, if Life Return works like that. That's me taking liberties however, and since it isn't proven, based on facts we'd have to say that Monet's freezing hug would end him. So dammit, while he probably has the strength to take them down (without intagibilty) he doesn't really have a defense against specific Logia abilities (though to be fair, no one really does; Luffy fell to Airless World, he would have been poisoned had it not been for Magellean's poison, and he had to break the ground to escape from Monet's hug).

Montblanc and Calgara are about the same. So I just need to make a case for one of them, Montblanc's best feats including hunting those seakings in water (which not necessary unique but some high tier do that). There was an earthquake that split Java in half. Up course, one half was launch by knock up stream later on. During that same earthquake, Montblanc was caught in between the 2 parts of the island. Initially, he can't get out. But after being all fatigue, he did move 2 half of an islands (admitly just a little bit) at point blank. Recall Zoro and Luffy's feats at the end of Water 7, but this is just way more impressive. However, there is a point to be made to move those two down to B- and Fisher Tiger to B-. But you need to give me some reasons, though I am open to that possibility.

Those two do have some rather impressive strength feats that I forgot about, so they could stay where they are. Can't say Crocodile has shown any feats like that, but I won't give up on thinking he should be B tier. I'm damn sure he can beat Bartolomeo, Cavendish, Pekoms, Strawberry, and Momonga though. The only other thing to add is that he, like Ace, Kuma, and Moriah, is a possible victim of improper planning/plot progression and that's why he didn't show haki. They were all introduced before Haki was really shown and Oda didn't give it to them to demonstrate during the war. I really don't think he's one of the weakest Shichibukai at all. He clashed with several strong opponents during the war and came out relatively unharmed, the only wounds seemingly done by Jozu alone.

On Fisher Tiger, I have nothing else except that he climbed the Red Line and trashed Mariejois by himself.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I personally don't find the B- tier convoluted. That tier is pretty much the level you need to be at the face the New World and at the latter of the Pre Timeskip, a lot of people with that strength level started to appear.

On this, no. The B tier is the top of the food chain of the New World. The C tier should also be capable of handling the New World, but they are more like lieutenants of captains, or lesser known captains. Since I am not going to budged on Rob Lucci, we will change the topic. Should Yeti Cool Brothers move to C+. On one hand, CC thought they are excessive in dealing with the Strawhats but CC is sort of an idiot. On the other hand, one of them is being outclassed by Franky in Chopper's body. But they pretty big, fast, and has some range attacks.

As for Blue Gilly, I may wait until this arc end to reassess him. Hody ES transformed (the white hair version), lol no. I don't disagree on Lucci being stronger than base Hody but not Monster Hody. The only thing for Lucci to do is skipping around until Hody get a whole of him. Hody's water bullets are extremely fast (not fast enough for post skipped Luffy).

Bartolomeo, Cavendish, Pekoms will all have to be reassess at some point. They all has the potential to move down. Strawberry fought evenly with Jinbe when he was a rear admiral (admitly he sustain a bit more injuries than Jinbe). But due to the show down between the two that Jinbe is even consider for Shichibukai. Well, I would think after all these timeskipped, he should be somewhere close to Jinbe. Momonga had been active since Roger time and is among the veterans of that era. But I can't put him higher than B because of the showing with Hancock. Granted, it was rather unfair since he was instructed not to be engage in a fight with Boa. But I am sure he can throw down.

For Fisher Tiger, I will move him on B- but you have to tell me the following scenario (win/lose) (hard/moderate/easy)
1) Fisher Tiger vs Rob Lucci
2) Fisher Tiger vs Pacifista
3) Fisher Tiger vs Luffy

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------

Edit: The A tier would be legendary in the New World

With the S tier as untouchable.

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

EEfrit I saw your edit, but I need to caught up with homework. Continue the debate next time

 

[eyeofbbeck]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Hi,

Long time lurker first time poster.

Just throwing in my two cents here, it seems to me that b class is pretty broad so broad that it is almost useless in ranking any of the participates. At the same time it seems that the B+ class is practically empty and could easily accommodate the best fighters in the B class without ruining it's integrity. My recommendations would be Law and Jinbei.

The craziest part of the B class is that verge, smoker and law are put in the same range as sanji. From the manga we have a really good idea of how strong these characters are in relation to one another and how strong they are in general. We know that Sanji has okay armament haki, great observation haki, little to none king's haki, high strength legs, and that he is the weakest of the big trio. When he fought vergo he could match him in speed, but his haki and leg strength were not even close. This is clear because his leg was broken in a very brief fight (the most damage taken by any of the major fighters minus those that flat-out lost) between the two. Compared to the much longer much more drawn out fight between smoker and vergo were vergo was the superior, but smoker was able to avoid the same level of damage as sanji. Considering what we know about Smoker, his vice-admiral haki, logia devil fruit, and strong physical prowess, it's not a stretch to say he is slightly better than Sanji, but still in the same B class. Vergo is a little bit of a stretch considering his level of haki, which seems to be above vice-admiral level by a considerable amount, since he beat Smoker, was easily dealing with Sanji, and negated Law's devil fruit, without having to go all out.

The case for Law. Law has at least vice-admiral level haki as shown when he defeated Smoker who was using haki to prevent him from using his df but failed, a hax devil fruit that allows him to fodderize easily and pull tricks like exchanging hearts making him nearly invincible, and he is a high level swords men able to defend against DD's string attack and with allow of his abilities cut Vergo at his strongest. If Smoker is slightly stronger then Sanji and Vergo is clearly stronger then Sanji then Law has to be much stronger then Sanji especially considering there are no matchup issues that favor Sanji. Sanji has neither the physical strength, or haki to defend against law and nothing to defend against his sword play it's just too much of a stretch to put them in same class.

So can Law compete in the B+ class without being destroyed. I think so. Of course, he would be at the lower end, but not completely outclassed. From your spreadsheet only two characters would cause clear problems: DD and Pre Yami Blackbeard. The others - Hancock ( hax devil fruit but with a clear weakness, kings H=haki and above vice-admiral level haki, and strong physical ability), Squrado, veteran admirals, and even Ace don't seem to be out of Law's league. Now DD either is or might be depending on how the arc goes clearly out of Law's league, but a strong argument could be made that he should be A-, since he used his strings to stop jozu with ease (hax devil fruit), is just as fast/strong as vergo if not faster/stronger (Physical), and Kings Haki. Thats not even mentioning his easy survival against Aokiji's attack from behind (handled much better than Jozu). As for Pre Yami Blackbeard, his power is so weird and still unknown that using him as a standard for a class just seems inappropriate. His devil fruit acts as both mastery of haki and a hax devil fruit. So his ranking should be dependent on his physical fighting ability, which alone was good enough to allow him to be considered for a command position with Whitebeard and to kill a Whitebeard commander, but we have never seen it in action except against Whitebeard who at the time was still the strongest man in the world, at least in terms of physically strength. He could go A- or B+.

The case for Jinbei. Jinbei fought Ace to a draw.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Hi,

Long time lurker first time poster.

Welcome to the forum, thank you for the very concise argument. I will reply to its shortly by editing this post.

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

I definetely agree with. That, Luffy wouldn't be able to win 100% of the time in fight against Lucci.

I think you misread what I wrote. I am emphasize on the part that Luffy can win again but he can't win all of the time. Which still in my eyes make him about equal to Lucci.

The only other thing to add is that he, like Ace, Kuma, and Moriah, is a possible victim of improper planning/plot progression and that's why he didn't show haki. They were all introduced before Haki was really shown and Oda didn't give it to them to demonstrate during the war. I really don't think he's one of the weakest Shichibukai at all. He clashed with several strong opponents during the war and came out relatively unharmed, the only wounds seemingly done by Jozu alone.

I understand what you are saying. But Moriah to me is always a tier below Jinbe. So if I move Moriah, I will have to move Jinbe. I think I create a thread on how did Jinbe was able to harm Ace a while back too. To be honest, Ace physical feat is still a great mystery. As for Kuma, hmm, look like we shift the topic a bit. But the last post eyeofbbeck seemed to go to extreme detail, so I will reply there.

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

The craziest part of the B class is that verge, smoker and law are put in the same range as sanji.

To me of all the vice Admiral, it feels like Vergo is in the middle. But we have to see how the vice admiral in this current arc performs before I make further reaccessment. But your problem here is that Sanji is rank on the same tier with Vergo, Smoker, and Law. The solution:

a) moves those guys above Sanji
b) moves Sanji down

Here are mine problem.

1) Diable Jambe is just a mode like gear 2. Sanji didn't perform any of his strong attacks during the fight with Vergo. That includes Hell Memories, anti manner kick, etc.

2) It is pretty clear that most of the strawhats will have a one on one fight on this current arc. And it won't be some sort of fodders like Fishman Island arc. Hence, we can wait and see what happen. Plus people like Trebol, Diamante, and Pico will gave some clue of where Vergo stands.

On Jinbe, for some reasons that popular opinions among the fandom is that Sanji had already reach his level and or surpass him. I don't know where such opinions come from but yeah. I create a thread a while back on the theory of how Jinbe was actually able to hurt a logia (Ace). I kinda want to wait and see what happen. To me,Jinbe's stats in the water should be in the B+ tier. Because he does said how useless he is outside of water (which still make Rob Lucci into a pussy cat).

The one thing that I will agree with you is the case to move Law up to B+. Again, I kinda want to see how this arc ends. Most likely, both Luffy and Law will be in B+. And depends on DD performance against Luffy, he may stay at B+ and or move up to A-. DD had quite the run, fodderize an injured Smoker. And beaten an equally injured Law (but Law was serious). So I don't know what to think of the guy. Law suffered tremendous injuries just like a day before from Vergo. He wasted so much energy stalling against an Admiral and DD. That in many way defeating Law wasn't a good showcase for DD. Though, the best one I think was his performance against Sanji.

Law had shown to be a B+ candidate. But I can't move him ahead of Luffy, and I can't move Luffy up just based on the potential story progress and power scaling.

*hmm maybe I move both Luffy and Law in B+ speculation.

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

Crocodile

Do you think that post skipped Luffy had surpass post skipped Crocodile or are they on the same tier.

1) I have Luffy at B right now, if post skipped Crocodile is at B, it will be weird for preskipped Crocodile here also (in B)

2) Even though, Luffy may go up to B+ at the end of this arc, we haven't seen post skipped crocodile yet to say he is as strong as the like of DD or Ace, etc.

I think that is one among many problems that I don't want to move him up.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

Guys, What do you think if I move Law and Luffy into B+ speculation prematurely????

 

[HereNThere]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

On this, no. The B tier is the top of the food chain of the New World. The C tier should also be capable of handling the New World, but they are more like lieutenants of captains, or lesser known captains. Since I am not going to budged on Rob Lucci, we will change the topic. Should Yeti Cool Brothers move to C+. On one hand, CC thought they are excessive in dealing with the Strawhats but CC is sort of an idiot. On the other hand, one of them is being outclassed by Franky in Chopper's body. But they pretty big, fast, and has some range attacks.

Hold that thought for a moment.

As for Blue Gilly, I may wait until this arc end to reassess him. Hody ES transformed (the white hair version), lol no. I don't disagree on Lucci being stronger than base Hody but not Monster Hody. The only thing for Lucci to do is skipping around until Hody get a whole of him. Hody's water bullets are extremely fast (not fast enough for post skipped Luffy).

Hmm, you're probably right. I would think that if Luffy and the gang went to Fishman Island without the 2 year training, they would have been able to beat the New Fishman Pirates + Steroids with high difficulty. Hody didn't really demonstrate any decent offensive ability aside from that water bullet. Plus, I doubt Hody would be able to catch Lucci. But again, hold that thought.

Bartolomeo, Cavendish, Pekoms will all have to be reassess at some point. They all has the potential to move down. Strawberry fought evenly with Jinbe when he was a rear admiral (admitly he sustain a bit more injuries than Jinbe). But due to the show down between the two that Jinbe is even consider for Shichibukai. Well, I would think after all these timeskipped, he should be somewhere close to Jinbe. Momonga had been active since Roger time and is among the veterans of that era. But I can't put him higher than B because of the showing with Hancock. Granted, it was rather unfair since he was instructed not to be engage in a fight with Boa. But I am sure he can throw down.

Was the fight with Strawberry in the anime? If it was I didn't see it. I would think that it was due to his tenure as a pirate as well that allowed him, though Strawberry vouching for him probably played a part. I don't know by how much he would have progressed though. I'm probably biased though cause I find his design lame. I'll give you Momonga. But I don't think him being active during Roger's era should be an indicator.

For Fisher Tiger, I will move him on B- but you have to tell me the following scenario (win/lose) (hard/moderate/easy)
1) Fisher Tiger vs Rob Lucci
2) Fisher Tiger vs Pacifista
3) Fisher Tiger vs Luffy.

Hmm, I'm not sure if we could do this since we don't really know how he fights, that's why he would be speculation. If I had to guess though...

Vs. Lucci; Win with Easy to Moderate Difficulty
Vs. Pacifista; I honestly have no idea
Vs. Luffy (Pre); Win with Easy to Moderate Difficulty

I think you misread what I wrote. I am emphasize on the part that Luffy can win again but he can't win all of the time. Which still in my eyes make him about equal to Lucci.

Okay, you can release your thoughts. I didn't misread you. I agreed that Luffy nor Lucci would win all the time. Which does mean that apparently, on some level, I do agree with you and I do think they are equal in strength, which means that he's probably fine where he is.

I understand what you are saying. But Moriah to me is always a tier below Jinbe. So if I move Moriah, I will have to move Jinbe. I think I create a thread on how did Jinbe was able to harm Ace a while back too. To be honest, Ace physical feat is still a great mystery. As for Kuma, hmm, look like we shift the topic a bit. But the last post eyeofbbeck seemed to go to extreme detail, so I will reply there.

Oh, I have no doubt Moriah is a tier lower than Jinbe. He got beat up in the war by Jinbe. I just added his name because he is one of those people who should know Haki given his experience, but for some reason, wasn't given it by Oda. I was just making the case for Haki for Crocodile, who, to me, is still way stronger than a fat and lazy Moriah. Crocodile was shown keeping up with his former collegues while, Moriah couldn't even get one hit off on one and only managed to get a strike in on an already injured Oars Jr.

Going on what you said about Jinbe to out new member (Welcome to the forums by the way, eyeofbbeck), I'm sure that opinion came from the Sanji and Jinbe team up on Fishman Island and the fact that they were pretty much doing comparable things in that "fight". Jinbe's water stats should put him somewhere high, where? I don't know, but he's up there when he in the water.

Guys, What do you think if I move Law and Luffy into B+ speculation prematurely????

Go for it. It's only speculation anyhow, nothing solid.

 

[Don Chinjao]

ok i know Wiper was strong but why he is suppose to be in C and kumadori to c-? i think kumadori could beat wiper thus wiper should go to C- and kumandori to c same goes for brueno too

 

[weixiaobao]

ok i know Wiper was strong but why he is suppose to be in C and kumadori to c-? i think kumadori could beat wiper thus wiper should go to C- and kumandori to c same goes for brueno too

Impossibility is the main proponent of this. I am open to that possibility. Use the "search" function for words like "Wiper" and "Wyper" and also "Blueno" starting from page 2. Read his posts and my replies to his posts. It was discontinue. I believe I ask some questions regarding this at the end of my last reply to him.
Nothing is set in stone. I could see Wiper as either C and or C-. But I need some convincing.

You can be the one that convinced me. I just need a very little convincing not that much more.

 

[Don Chinjao]

Impossibility is the main proponent of this. I am open to that possibility. Use the "search" function for words like "Wiper" and "Wyper" and also "Blueno" starting from page 2. Read his posts and my replies to his posts. It was discontinue. I believe I ask some questions regarding this at the end of my last reply to him.
Nothing is set in stone. I could see Wiper as either C and or C-. But I need some convincing.

You can be the one that convinced me. I just need a very little convincing not that much more.

Well luffy couldnt beat blueno and without the help of gear 2 he could have a much more troublesame fight and as for kumandori i think that technic that he could form multiple hands from his hair and using shi-gun it was pretty strong chopper beat him only after becoming monster chopper

 

[weixiaobao]

Well luffy couldnt beat blueno and without the help of gear 2 he could have a much more troublesame fight and as for kumandori i think that technic that he could form multiple hands from his hair and using shi-gun it was pretty strong chopper beat him only after becoming monster chopper

I hope you did review those posts because. I am scrapped for time due to many school projects. But yeah this was the questions:

1) Give me evidences that post skipped Nami can beat Wiper. Heck he can do 360 degree Boozoka to sniff her out from her migrates. And how many people didn't get knock out of her electricity. Even fodders are able to survive that.

2) How would Franky even hit Wiper since his mobility is much better than Geppou. If you can't do this then don't even bother argue for Fukuro.
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Enies Lobby strawhats > Skypiea Strawhats > Water 7 Strawhats
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I am more incline to believe there is no magical power up in One Piece beside new techniques.

Outside of techniques, there should not be an exponential growth in physical feats between Skypiea and Enies Lobby (pre unleashing of new techniques). There are growth but not exponential growth as the manga suggested.

Luffy had the physical feat upper hand through out Blueno battle. He doesn't need to go through Gear 2. But he was impatient and somewhat annoy with Blueno's abilities.

Once he goes to Gear 2, Blueno was pretty much fodderized. I rather Blueno moved up than Wiper move down. But Oda is so inconsistent with the guy. He should be stronger in between 1000-1500 than 820. though one point, Blueno was briefly match base Luffy.

Fukuro and Kumadori are both idiot. But I view both as stronger than Chopper.

Actually if you somehow convince me of the two questions above, I will move Wiper down. I do think Blueno and Wiper are very close, I want to sort of move Blueno up but then I would have move Franky up. (so you/Imposibility win in the CP9 front).

But convince me about Franky and Nami.

 

[Don Chinjao]

What nami and franky has to do with that? i havent wrote in my previous comment about franky and nami i dont understand why you think i said anything about them when i clearly havent

 

[weixiaobao]

What nami and franky has to do with that? i havent wrote in my previous comment about franky and nami i dont understand why you think i said anything about them when i clearly havent

Up course you haven't, hence you didn't read anything I wrote either, right?

This thread is not for "you wrote something" and then I will have to do what you said.

This thread is not communicating back and forth, and when you give me reasonable reasons to do something I will do it.

I already said you have convince me on the CP9 parts but Franky should be a tad stronger than those 3 CP9. If you can convince me that Franky can take it, then it would be a stronger argument.

Wiper and post skipped Nami must be discussed together. It like the case with Law. People want me to move him up. I can't move him past Luffy and Kidd. If they want to move Law up the conversation would be about all three of them. Not just one.

I feel like Wiper is about as strong as post skipped Nami. So either both of them go down (if you convince me that she is not yet ready to be on the same tier with so many supernovas), both of them stay , or one of them move down (if you convince me Nami is stronger than those low tier CP9/Wiper).

---------- Post added at 06:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 AM ----------

What nami and franky has to do with that? i havent wrote in my previous comment about franky and nami i dont understand why you think i said anything about them when i clearly havent

It does. It does have to do with my replies. My replies was please review Imposibility's posts and my replies to his post over this topic. Because he most likely had bring up some of the points you did. And yes, he totally did. So do you think my replies to you would be any different than my replies to his?? So for the sake of efficiency, just continue that conversation that I and him left off.

Thank you though for focusing only on Wiper. It makes my life easier that way.

---------- Post added at 06:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 AM ----------

Hold that thought for a moment.

Well, Strawberry fought Jinbe in the manga. In the anime, they made some more fillers, and show that Jinbe actually beat Strawberry. But in both versions, they are injured (Strawberry is a lot more).

I think there is merit in being active in Roger's era in a sense that they hold a position for such a long time and or being promoted along the way. It showed they have experienced in fighting.

If you think that highly of Fisher Tiger, then I may move him up to B- speculation. However, for what reasons do you think he beat Lucci easy to moderate difficulty? (So far what so convincing about this is the whole Jinbe is his underling and Jinbe is considered to be a shichibukai which made Fisher Tiger a candidate also). I think just about one more reply would be enough to convince me.

On Fishman Island, hmmm I doubt Zoro could beat base Hody under water like he did. I will send you a link on this.

Glad we agree on Lucci stay where he is.

Well, remember our talk about Enel (whom I adore). Crocodile is consider for B, not before Enel already in B. lol xD

Last thing about moving Law, Luffy, Kidd (and possibly Drake) into B+. Do you think Luffy and Law can beat Vergo comfortably? How about Magellan and Ivankov?

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

By getting smack by a sea stone weapon, ya you know how Wiper give Enel quite the scare. You were more logical, but now you are also getting to the extreme.

I don't see how Smoker would get close to Enel. Enel is faster, with Mantra, and has the ability to destroy Smoker from a distance. And CC can pretty shut any attempts at close-range combat down. Pre-skip Smoker is simply outclassed by these two, in offensive ability, endurance, technique, pretty much everything. The only thing Smoker has going for him is a seastone weapon.

Don't convince youself, convince me. Well I said that a Pacifista can't fodderize Luffy (Pacifista beat Urouge look at what tier those two are at). There you go. Luffy gonna take a longer time but once he smack the thing couple times with gear 3 that will do it.

They were on comparable levels. Kidd has the tools to be a threat to Luffy alone, alongside Drake it shouldn't even be a contest. A Pacifista beat Uoruge, while taking on three other Supernovae. And if Luffy gets a few free hits with Gear 3, he might bring down a Pacifista, but the Pacifista isn't just going to stand around and take damage. Any SH can take down a Pacifista if it decides to give them the time to do so.

I think we read different manga. I don't see Pacifista vs 4 supernovas.

Clearly, because the Pacifista engaged Urouge, Drake, Hawkins and Apoo at Sabaody.

Case close on this, you are not convince me. Unless you bringing different evidences than this. Just focus on your Wiper stuffs.

Your knowledge of the manga seems to be somewhat limited, and apparently you're willing to completely ignore actual events within the manga when presented.

Oh, the same Franky that the Gallery la workers give some trouble to?? Never mind, I don't follow any of that at all. I will keep in mind about Wiper. To me he is in between C and C- and not as weak as you make him out to me. I will wait and see if other have any problem with this and bring up fresher perspective. Because you really lost me with some of your posts.

What trouble did Franky have? And, for the record, they were, at the very least, competent fighters. If Franky could handle Luffy. and subsequently, members of CP9, I find it ridiculous to argue that he is too slow to handle Wiper.

 

[HereNThere]

I think there is merit in being active in Roger's era in a sense that they hold a position for such a long time and or being promoted along the way. It showed they have experienced in fighting.

Hmm, yeah I guess so. He probably is one of the stronger Vice Admirals. I still think him and Strawberry would have their hands full with Crocodile though. If anything, I would think they are near equal (in Strawberry's case weaker).

If you think that highly of Fisher Tiger, then I may move him up to B- speculation. However, for what reasons do you think he beat Lucci easy to moderate difficulty? (So far what so convincing about this is the whole Jinbe is his underling and Jinbe is considered to be a shichibukai which made Fisher Tiger a candidate also). I think just about one more reply would be enough to convince me.

I would go for moderate, but that's assuming that Fisher Tiger's strength is greater than Lucci's. I would like assume he is strong enough to break Tekkai and should be durable enough to take a lot of Lucci's blows. Even near death he was fast enough to quickly blitz to the nearest marine (quite the feat as they were still a considerable distance away from him) and punch him before the others could realize what was going on. If he was healthy, I would assume he'd be able to keep track of Lucci's Soru. If Luffy is indeed equal to Lucci, the same goes for him as well.

On Fishman Island, hmmm I doubt Zoro could beat base Hody under water like he did. I will send you a link on this.

That's a good point. On Land, I think he could, but if the arc happened beat for beat, Zoro might have lost at that point.

Well, remember our talk about Enel (whom I adore). Crocodile is consider for B, not before Enel already in B. lol xD

Let me ask you this, how do you think those two would do against Magellan, who is a tier above them?

Last thing about moving Law, Luffy, Kidd (and possibly Drake) into B+. Do you think Luffy and Law can beat Vergo comfortably? How about Magellan and Ivankov?

I've been thinking about Vergo lately and I'm starting to think that only Law had the capabilities to stop him. Vergo was a complete tank and Law could do nothing to him except disassemble him to keep him from doing what he was doing. Luffy doesn't have that advantage and I'm assuming that Vergo was vastly more durable than Hody, who took many strong moves before finally going down for good. I don't think Luffy or Kidd have the capabilities to do something like that comfortably (based on what we currently know). Not saying Luffy wouldn't be able to beat him, but he have to put a lot into it. Even though Luffy's Haki is probably stronger than his, he's just too damn tough to put down with brute force. Magellan would have a chance seeing as his poison would be able to stop him. I'm not totally sure about Ivankov. I don't think he'd be able to pierce Vergo, unless he has comparable haki strength. His winks could push him back, but I doubt that'd stop Vergo for long.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Clearly, because the Pacifista engaged Urouge, Drake, Hawkins and Apoo at Sabaody.

Go back and read that chapter and then we will talk. Because it seemed your memories are not correct.

---------- Post added at 09:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 AM ----------

Clearly, because the Pacifista engaged Urouge, Drake, Hawkins and Apoo at Sabaody.

Sigh, way too many things to type. I gonna just tackle this one. I wrote a recap, but the stupid computer blank on me and I lost it.

But if you had stop argue with me and actually went back to read the chapter. Pacifista didn't engage in fight with Hawkins or Apoo.

Pacifista didn't KO X Drake or Urouge. Pacifista fought them one on one and not at the same time.

Urouge failed to damage Pacifista but pummel him quite a bit. Pacifista have a shot and injured Urouge but he was seemed standing later fine and dandy.

X Drake was able to kick/blitz Pacifista to the wall (Urouge had about the same feat). X Drake was able to stop the Pacifista.
During one brief exchange, X Drake damage the Pacifista and the Pacifista was able to damage X Drake. One can take from that exchange that X Drake > Urouge.
X Drake may be weaker than Pacifista but he should give the thing quite a fight by himself.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

Hawkins and Urouge both tanks considerable attacks. In Urouge's case, he tanked from both Kizaru and Pacifista.

So if you argue an Admiral kicks the shit out of 4 supernovas. Yeah, no shit.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Also, if you assessment on me as having limited knowledge then how would you grade yourself?

 

[Kuza]

After reading breafly I'd put DD to A, Luffy and Zoro to B+, Squadro to B.
Also in serious and objective fight 1v1 Kizaru and Akainu are probably not weaker or even stronger than anyl Yonko, except maybe BB due to there hax DF. Aokiji is different case, cause he doenst have much firepower and cant freeze haki users, so I'd put him in A with Fuji.
Also Vista > B/B+, not more
Old Chinjao > B+
Jinbei+Law > B+

 

[Impossibility]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

Go back and read that chapter and then we will talk. Because it seemed your memories are not correct.

Sigh, way too many things to type. I gonna just tackle this one. I wrote a recap, but the stupid computer blank on me and I lost it.

But if you had stop argue with me and actually went back to read the chapter. Pacifista didn't engage in fight with Hawkins or Apoo.

Pacifista didn't KO X Drake or Urouge. Pacifista fought them one on one and not at the same time.

Urouge failed to damage Pacifista but pummel him quite a bit. Pacifista have a shot and injured Urouge but he was seemed standing later fine and dandy.

X Drake was able to kick/blitz Pacifista to the wall (Urouge had about the same feat). X Drake was able to stop the Pacifista.
During one brief exchange, X Drake damage the Pacifista and the Pacifista was able to damage X Drake. One can take from that exchange that X Drake > Urouge.
X Drake may be weaker than Pacifista but he should give the thing quite a fight by himself.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

Hawkins and Urouge both tanks considerable attacks. In Urouge's case, he tanked from both Kizaru and Pacifista.

So if you argue an Admiral kicks the shit out of 4 supernovas. Yeah, no shit.

Also, if you assessment on me as having limited knowledge then how would you grade yourself?

I guess you're right on this one, the Pacifista ignored Hawkins, he was left to Kizaru alone. He, however, did identify Apoo with intent, but Apoo fled. And I wasn't arguing that the Pacifista defeated them, I'm arguing that it showed it was capable of taking them on. My argument about the Pacifista remains unchanged, it was out of the league of the pre-skip Supernovae; taking on the entire SH crew, the Heart Pirates and the Kidd Pirates, and two other Supernovae is something that speaks for itself.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: One Piece Power ranking

I guess you're right on this one, the Pacifista ignored Hawkins, he was left to Kizaru alone. He, however, did identify Apoo with intent, but Apoo fled. And I wasn't arguing that the Pacifista defeated them, I'm arguing that it showed it was capable of taking them on. My argument about the Pacifista remains unchanged, it was out of the league of the pre-skip Supernovae; taking on the entire SH crew, the Heart Pirates and the Kidd Pirates, and two other Supernovae is something that speaks for itself.

But we didn't see the battle between the Heart Pirates/Kidd Pirates. We don't know what went down. There is a lack of evidence of this. We know though, that both escaped fine. The Pacifista shocked people because they thought those guys are shichibukai. Like in Marineford, once people actually fight back, the new world pirates did pretty well.

Your strongest argument is that the Pacifista took on the Strawhats crew. It is a valid argument. But all I see is a Pacifista being hit over and over and over and over.
That battle said something about the Pacifista's defense capacity. But not so much as it related to others.

For one, chopper/Nami/Usopp powers compare to the Monster trio is such a huge gap that they really are not matter in this fight. Sure including them would help the strawhats but removing those three wouldn't do much either. Brook barely harm the thing, his contribution to the fight is neglectable.

If Urouge could pummel the thing and cause no visible injuries. Then those 4 are not necessary except for stalling time and diverge attention.

So we are down to 5. Even the final attack can be consider overkill. But it is valid to think that is what Oda want to portray that indeed take the most powerful technique of all three at the same time to destroy the Pacifista. And or just because it looks cool that way.

Zoro at this point was beyond injured and has just a fraction of power that he once has.

I may have to reread that chapter. Unless Oda portrayed that the Pacifista injured these guys at least somewhat. Then maybe your argument is much stronger.

But base on my memory. It was just one side assaulted. The people that maybe injured was the weaker strawhats.

I comment on the other points later. Too much homeworks. In the meant time check this thread out. I bet they probably have the arguments that I am going to make anyway.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/forums/showthread.php?17540-Luffy-preskip-vs.-Pacifista

---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

Hey, eefrit, I promote you as the coauthor of the thread lol. Help me respond to others also. You are also a One Piece fan, I meant it was outragous that no one say anything on Pacifista vs 4 supernovas. It like everyone fell asleep on the wheel or something.

At least help me examine Kuza's post.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

After reading breafly I'd put DD to A, Luffy and Zoro to B+, Squadro to B.
Also in serious and objective fight 1v1 Kizaru and Akainu are probably not weaker or even stronger than anyl Yonko, except maybe BB due to there hax DF. Aokiji is different case, cause he doenst have much firepower and cant freeze haki users, so I'd put him in A with Fuji.
Also Vista > B/B+, not more
Old Chinjao > B+
Jinbei+Law > B+

Why?