Discussion Detailed Power Ranking and commentaries

[M3J]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Jinbei pushed Akainu out of the way when he was tryin to attack Luffy. After that, Jinbei was running away to save Luffy, he never intended to fight Akainu. Without Luffy to drag Jinbei down, we dunno who would have won. I used Akainu solely because of Jinbei being able to attack Akainu before he tried to kill Luffy again. Jinbei is also a ranged fighter, he was able to deal great deal of damage without even being close to his opponents. Jinbei is more of a better opponent for Law than most other fighters.

True, but Jinbei didn't try to fight, and Crocodile was still fighting even after confronting Doflamingo. We can also argue that Doflamingo and Fujitora also went after Law with less than their full potential. Unfair to say Law wasn't going all out but not point out that Doflamingo and Fujitora weren't either.

How is that wrong? This isn't Dragon Ball Z, it's not A > B, B > C, so A > C, it's about the character's ability to fight. Mihawk could be the best swordsman, but without haki he'd most likely lose to the likes of Crocodile and Lucci. Whereas, the main reason why Luffy stands a better chance now is because of his ability to use haki. While Crocodile's feats weren't a good gauge of his strength, the fact that he survived and seemed to have no scratch on him is a good gauge.

Luffy had luck on his side. Robin saved him, the last drop of water saved him, and Robin saved him again from the poison.

 

[Syphin]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Law, Luffy, Drake, and Kidd are roughly in the same range.

Oda seems to be pointing out with this Dressrosa that Law and Luffy aren't 'roughly' in the same range. Law got his ass handed to him by Doflamingo even with knowledge of Doflamingo's Devil Fruit ability. Luffy on the other hand, being the main character, is going to defeat Doflamingo, as the whole arc is set up that way with Doflamingo pissing off Luffy so badly.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Jinbei pushed Akainu out of the way when he was tryin to attack Luffy. After that, Jinbei was running away to save Luffy, he never intended to fight Akainu. Without Luffy to drag Jinbei down, we dunno who would have won.

I don't think you believe that.

How is that wrong? This isn't Dragon Ball Z, it's not A > B, B > C, so A > C, it's about the character's ability to fight. Mihawk could be the best swordsman, but without haki he'd most likely lose to the likes of Crocodile and Lucci. Whereas, the main reason why Luffy stands a better chance now is because of his ability to use haki. While Crocodile's feats weren't a good gauge of his strength, the fact that he survived and seemed to have no scratch on him is a good gauge.

Because I want to leave some room for post skipped Crocodile, I do think among the shichibukai, he and Law would be the most improved since preskipped. He maybe even better than Law after postskipped. I don't know that. But base on feats, I see Law winning. There is no way I see pre skipped Crocodile win against Post skipped Smoker. He may have a chance but not really.

---------- Post added at 12:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------

Oda seems to be pointing out with this Dressrosa that Law and Luffy aren't 'roughly' in the same range. Law got his ass handed to him by Doflamingo even with knowledge of Doflamingo's Devil Fruit ability. Luffy on the other hand, being the main character, is going to defeat Doflamingo, as the whole arc is set up that way with Doflamingo pissing off Luffy so badly.

See this is projection, when you are doing a comprehensive power ranking like I do. You have to leave room for dynamic character like Luff as opposed to static characters. Dynamic characters will get stronger as the story goes along. As far as I am concern, I haven't seen all Luffy's tricks yet. And based on what I am seeing, I will put him near Law. After this arc, he should damn well be on another level because 3 Yonkous are after him, after all.

Luffy will no doubt struggle quite a bit against DD. Btw, don't use future evidences as evidence for something.

 

[M3J]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I don't think you believe that.

Why not? Jinbei tackled Akainu and seemed to not gain any significant damage. After that he took Luffy and kept running, and Jinbei got hurt because he was protecting Luffy, though he kinda failed at that too. If you have conclusive proof that Akainu is better than Jinbei or could best him, please show it to me, because as far as I see, that skirmish cannot conclude who's superior.

Because I want to leave some room for post skipped Crocodile, I do think among the shichibukai, he and Law would be the most improved since preskipped. He maybe even better than Law after postskipped. I don't know that. But base on feats, I see Law winning. There is no way I see pre skipped Crocodile win against Post skipped Smoker. He may have a chance but not really.

Based on Crocodile's abilities and how he survived the war without a scratch going against opponents like Doflamingo, I'm pretty sure he's at a high level. higher than Law. The main advantage Law would have is that Crocodile might not know about his devil fruit power.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Why not? Jinbei tackled Akainu and seemed to not gain any significant damage. After that he took Luffy and kept running, and Jinbei got hurt because he was protecting Luffy, though he kinda failed at that too. If you have conclusive proof that Akainu is better than Jinbei or could best him, please show it to me, because as far as I see, that skirmish cannot conclude who's superior.

If you think Jinbe could best Akainu, then I don't we need to discuss any further because non of my logic would make sense to you and vice versa.

Based on Crocodile's abilities and how he survived the war without a scratch going against opponents like Doflamingo, I'm pretty sure he's at a high level. higher than Law. The main advantage Law would have is that Crocodile might not know about his devil fruit power.

Did he survive without any SCRATCH??? hmmm, that is a big statement there. I don't see Crocodile hold off against either Vergo or Smoker. And if DD was serious during the war, lol, I doubt Crocodile would survive without a single scratch. That statement isn't true. But if it was true, then the more, I would take Crocodile's feat less seriously. Because if there was indeed no scratch (in which there was) then none of the opponents really fought him seriously.

The shichibukai are often one (Crocodile/Moriah) or two or even three or four (Mihawk) levels above the supernovas preskipped. But the supernovas had close the gap quite a bit. Crocodile no doubt could wipe out the whole supernovas if they didn't no about his weakness. But this isn't preskipped anybody.

 

[M3J]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Why wouldn't he be able to? As far as I'm concerned, we have no idea who'd win, everything is assumption. We'd assume Akainu would win because he's the fleet admiral who transformed the Marines into a stronger force. I'd say we don't know because Jinbei was able to push Akainu and seems to be able to fight pretty well. If Akainu fights better than Ace though, then I do think Akainu would win. I would need more information to be entirely confident that Akainu would win like you are.


Rather than HMMMMM me, why not provide proof that Crocodile did make it out without sustaining any damage. If Crocodile takes Smoker's jutte out of the equation, and if Smoker does not know haki, then the fight can at worst for Crocodile, be evenly matched. Can Vergo's haki help Vergo withstand Crocodile's ability to dehydrate anything he touches?

Pretty sure plenty of opponents took Crocodile seriously. Didn't he seem to be "beheaded" and "injured" many times? How did you arrive at the conclusion that no one fought Crocodile seriously since he wasn't injured? Seems like it's a biased conclusion.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Why wouldn't he be able to? As far as I'm concerned, we have no idea who'd win, everything is assumption. We'd assume Akainu would win because he's the fleet admiral who transformed the Marines into a stronger force. I'd say we don't know because Jinbei was able to push Akainu and seems to be able to fight pretty well. If Akainu fights better than Ace though, then I do think Akainu would win. I would need more information to be entirely confident that Akainu would win like you are.

I think you really need to reread that saga. How many time Akainu endured WhiteBeard's attack and then get back up and chase everybody around?? Which Jinbe's attack would be on the level of the enrage WhiteBeard??? Akainu could just stand in one place and spam his attack and how long will Jinbe survive as the water heat up even more than in Impel Down.

Rather than HMMMMM me, why not provide proof that Crocodile did make it out without sustaining any damage. If Crocodile takes Smoker's jutte out of the equation, and if Smoker does not know haki, then the fight can at worst for Crocodile, be evenly matched. Can Vergo's haki help Vergo withstand Crocodile's ability to dehydrate anything he touches?

Because post Skipped smoker know haki, and because Law fought Smoker and beat him while he had a jute. No Vergo's haki won't help him, but he shigan the hell out of Crocodile in moment of contact.

Pretty sure plenty of opponents took Crocodile seriously. Didn't he seem to be "beheaded" and "injured" many times? How did you arrive at the conclusion that no one fought Crocodile seriously since he wasn't injured? Seems like it's a biased conclusion.

Because your statement if fault from the getgo, I meant the dude spit blood from the tackle with Jozu, and that is not injured?? I don't know dude, I can't argue against make up shit. If you say Enel can kill white Beard because Enel kick White Beard's ass in marineford. I meant how would I argue against that.

---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Maybe I need to hmmm you again, because you trying to sell me a white wallpaper as a black wall paper... I meant you can go back and look through the panels and tell me which panels did Crocodile look non injured and without a scratch on him. I meant you type blatant lies and then held me in the position to argue with you seriously. How can I?

 

[Franckie]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Preskip:

1. Blackbeard
2. Mihawk
3. Doflamingo
4. Hancock
5. Kuma
6. Jinbei
7. Crocodile
8. Moria

Post-skip, Law is certainly one of the weaker Shichibukai, with weakest being Buggy. Cannot give an accurate gauge without more info. I will bet that Buggy is considered the "strongest" Shichibukai, however. That trend would fit his characterization all too well.

 

[hawk eye]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Buggy <<< Moriah < Crocodile < Jinbei < law < hancock =< Kuma < Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard(yonkou). if its yami blackbeard then he'll be around hancock's level.

 

[floman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Just to make this discussion a little bit more interesting where do you think the new 7th shichibukai will rank in this? Give your reasoning too.

My prediction is:

Buggy << Moriah < 7th shichibukai < Crocodile < Law= Jinbei= Hancock < Kuma = Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard.

I really don't think that they are going to add a new extremely powerful character since they already have the third admiral, they have to reintroduce crocodile into the story, they have blackbeard and the Yonko. I think the 7th shichibukai will just be someone that Luffy easily defeats to show he has exceeded the shichibukai level. Maybe Buggy supports albida so that they can both be shichibukai.

 

[Spam286]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Just to make this discussion a little bit more interesting where do you think the new 7th shichibukai will rank in this? Give your reasoning too.

My prediction is:

Buggy << Moriah < 7th shichibukai < Crocodile < Law= Jinbei= Hancock < Kuma = Doflamingo < Mihawk < Blackbeard.

I really don't think that they are going to add a new extremely powerful character since they already have the third admiral, they have to reintroduce crocodile into the story, they have blackbeard and the Yonko. I think the 7th shichibukai will just be someone that Luffy easily defeats to show he has exceeded the shichibukai level. Maybe Buggy supports albida so that they can both be shichibukai.

Didn't the seventh shichi cut off a former admiral's arm? I'm really not sure about which aspects of movie z are supposed to be canon, but I'm pretty sure that was one of them. I get the impression he/she is supposed to be quite strong.

 

[Syphin]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Didn't the seventh shichi cut off a former admiral's arm? I'm really not sure about which aspects of movie z are supposed to be canon, but I'm pretty sure that was one of them. I get the impression he/she is supposed to be quite strong.

Razh did help clear up what was canon concerning Zephyr's plot at the end of last year for me:

The movie itself doesn't contain anything important for OP manga canon. [...] the important stuff is in OP Volume 1000.

Spoiler

At the age of 65, Zephyr's arm was cut off by a pirate who had a Devil Fruit power, and his entire division was massacred with only Ain and Binz surviving.

At age 70, Zephyr received his mechanical arm from a government scientist and began hunting down pirates with Devil Fruit powers.

At age 73 (one year ago in the current One Piece story), the same pirate who severed Zephyr's arm became a Shichibukai. This prompted Zephyr to renounce the Marines, he followed that decision with a decision to create his own group, the Neo Marines. With his new group they plotted to destroy all pirates.

At age 74, Luffy beats Zephyr.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Post-skip, Law is certainly one of the weaker Shichibukai,

I love how M3J's argument reduced to a thumb up to a baseless statement without giving any reasons. Btw, a mod a few pages left remind people to not just give a list but also state the reason why. Since your list is only preskipped.

Where would you rank these 3 characters: Mihawk, BB with 2 fruits, BB with 1 fruit. I didn't consider Blackbeard at the end of marineford. Because I clearly don't know where to rank him. Is he so strong to put up a fight against 2 top tier (Garp and Sengoku) or is he still learning his DF and run away from Akainu. But then again BB is a smart guy. Black Beard's portray had been so wildly inconsistent preskipped from his exchange with Luffy to his showdown against Sengoku and Garp.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

At age 70, Zephyr received his mechanical arm from a government scientist and began hunting down pirates with Devil Fruit powers.

At age 73 (one year ago in the current One Piece story), the same pirate who severed Zephyr's arm became a Shichibukai. This prompted Zephyr to renounce the Marines, he followed that decision with a decision to create his own group, the Neo Marines. With his new group they plotted to destroy all pirates.

At age 74, Luffy beats Zephyr.

Could you please explain to me how these are canon? I mean, why wasn't Zephyr at Marineford during the war?
And if one year ago he renounced the Marines and started going after pirates with DF's, shouldn't we have heard about it in the manga? Or will we?
And the last one. Luffy defeats Zephyr in the movie, but if the above^ ones are canon, does that mean that Zephyr will meet Luffy later in the story and get defeated? I'm really confused.

From what I've been able to comprehend in the subject, this is canon:
1. Zephyr was a Marine Admiral.
2. The one who massacred Zephyr's trainees and cut off his arm is the seventh Shichibukai.
Does all this mean that Luffy will face off against Zephyr later in the story and win? I just dont get it..
It feels like Zephyr is canon, but he still isn't, so partly canon? And if he is partly canon he is still out there in the story right? And if so is he leading his organization The Neo Marines? I'm really confused^^

 

[Syphin]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Well I'm not entirely sure, but I am just interpreting what is manga canon by what Oda puts in his manga and Volume 1000 is part of his manga - just like Volume 0 (Oda wrote what was in both). All the information I listed was summarised in the Volume 1000 covering Zephyr's story.

Until I am told otherwise by Oda, I am of the opinion that the information in volume 1000 is manga canon. Trying to pick and choose what is canon and what is not within volume 1000 doesn't make sense to me =/.

I do agree that the main points to take out of Volume 1000 are the fact that Zephyr was an Admiral and that a pirate, who later became the 7th Shichibukai, was the reason he lost his right arm. And yeah, I am confused as well =/.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Could you please explain to me how these are canon? I mean, why wasn't Zephyr at Marineford during the war?

He resigned as an admiral ~30 years ago and was serving as an instructor (what Garp and Sengoku are doing now).

And the last one. Luffy defeats Zephyr in the movie, but if the above^ ones are canon, does that mean that Zephyr will meet Luffy later in the story and get defeated? I'm really confused.

The movie happened as soon as they entered the new world (of course, so did Punk Hazard, which I think is a large part of what it's not entirely canon), so it's already in the past and Z is dead as of the current storyline.

 

[REN KOUEN]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I see Kuma stronger than Mihawk and Doflamingo. His ability is Hax and now he has Kizarus laser as well. On the other hand he got some damage in 2 years of guarding the Sunny but we don't know who attacked him. Probably some random marines and pirates but not an Admiral so he is probably weaker than Blackbeard.

nah mihawk would beat kuma

mihawk is a monster

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

He resigned as an admiral ~30 years ago and was serving as an instructor (what Garp and Sengoku are doing now).


The movie happened as soon as they entered the new world (of course, so did Punk Hazard, which I think is a large part of what it's not entirely canon), so it's already in the past and Z is dead as of the current storyline.

Yeah but, how did he die? Since PH was the first Island that the SH's visited in the NW, how did Zephyr die? Aaaaah I'm so confused damn you Oda sensei!

 

[ish3]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Yeah but, how did he die? Since PH was the first Island that the SH's visited in the NW, how did Zephyr die? Aaaaah I'm so confused damn you Oda sensei!

Well if the movie and his action are considered canon as well the future reveal of the 7th warlord I'd say he was killed by kizaru and the other marines he raised. You sound like you need to watch the movie and read volume 0 and 1000.

 

[Trikz]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

For me the Shichibukai ranking purely on battle prowess will be as follows:
1- Blackbeard as the strongest purely because of his hax ability to draw in devil fruit users and seal their abilities and because he now has whitebeard's ability so there are probably very few people that can take him on.
2- Mihawk / Hancock both in second place as i feel they are extremely strong characters. Although i put Mihawk in second place, he is definitely one of the strongest characters in one piece and one of the few people that can take on and possibly beat Blackbeard as not only is he the strongest swordsman in the one piece universe which says alot about his physical battle prowess, he is also not a devil fruit user which makes him non-susceptible to blackbeard's Yami fruit. Hancock on the other hand is not only the empress of amazon lily where all the warriors have somehow awakened and mastered various methods of using haki, she is also the first Shichibukai known to posses Haoshoku Haki which she might have even been born with as it was stated pre-time skip that she did not have full control of it yet, although it has not been confirmed. With her background it is fair to assume she is one of the top haki users in the entire one piece universe although we still haven't seen her go all out yet. Her Mero Mero fruit is also one of the most hax fruit in one piece as it give her the ability to petrify anyone or thing she touches as we saw when she attacked the whitebeard pirates petrifying them where they were kicked and even their weapons they tried to block with were petrified and broken, which will make her the nightmare of any swordsman, and we still haven't seen the extent of her abilities.
3- Doflamingo would be in third place as he is the only other Shichibukai known to posses Haoshoku Haki which says alot about his power and he also seems to be proficient at using Observation haki although his mastery of Armament haki isn't known but it is safe to assume he is decent at using it as he was able to beat smoker who is a logia although its probably not his forte as he doesn't incorporate it into his fight style much unless when needed against a devil fruit user. His ability on the other hand is one of the most hax abilites in one piece as he can manipulate people and cut almost anything with it while its invisible to the naked eye, although it can probably be dodged my proficient CoO haki users if they are fast enough or blocked by swordsmen as law did, but it could be very dangerous if caught off guard.
4- Kuma not only has the ability repel any attack with his paw fruit, he also has the ability to repel anything he touches including the air to send multiple shock waves toward his enemy. He can also compress air pressure to create massive explosion, teleport around instantly and fire lasers out of his mouth. On top of all that he also has the sturdy body of a pacifista which make him one of the most difficult enemies to deal with in one piece.
5- Crocodile / Jinbei are equally strong in my opinion, crocodile on one hand can create, control, and manipulate sand at will, even using it to slash people. he can also create sand storms instantaneously and absorb liquids from the ground and anyone standing on it turning everything to sand or directly from anyone he touches which we saw him use on luffy multiple time and would have killed him if he wasn't a rubberman. Despite the glaring weakness, i still think the fruits is quite powerful and not to be underestimated. jinbei on the other hand has been shown to have exceptional physical combat abilities from his fight with little exchange with moria to his fight to a draw with Ace, not to mention his mastery of fishman karate. Jinbei is probably the strongest fisherman to appear so far and will probably be unbeatable if he is in water.
6- Law / Moria are at the same level in my opinion. Law's abilities are pretty hax aswel but i dont think his physical abilities are that impressive as we have seen from his fight with smoker when he got easily gabbed and pinned down and had to use his ability to get away, and in his fight with vergo aswel, which makes him shy away from close combat as he is at a disadvantage in close combat against a physically strong opponent like jinbei for example. Geko moria on the other hand has the ability to gather other peoples shadows to increase his own combat abilities. we all saw how powerful luffy was with just 100 but moria was able to gather 1000 although he couldn't hold them as he was still injured or for whatever reason, but i still think thats very impressive.
7- well buggy in terms of combat abilities shouldn't even be a Shichibukai lol so its only obvious that he would be the weakest, enough said.