Discussion Elizabeth

[Inuhanyou123]

Same position? Lol what? Not even close.

Firstly, none of what you said is correct. Secondly, I wasn't intending to include you in the convo cause your a known Elie downplayer from the beginning. And have been spending the whole thread arguing with other people because you think its literally impossible for Estsa to have a connection with Mael just because we have been spoonfed basic details of Estarossa's backstory that are already in the process of being questioned in the manga proper as we sit here an talk about it.

I don't think debating with you about possibilities is very reasonable even just due to that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2018 ---

You are confusing Elizabeth for Mael there.

Mael is one of the archangels. he's not in the same position as Meliodas. Only in terms of power as in being the strongest of their respective clans, but in terms of hierarchy, its the same.

If we're equating commandments to graces, its a 40/60 split between Mael and the other 3 archangels in terms of pure power of the grace given by the SD, of course he would be the strongest in that scenario on the goddess side. But it says nothing about what Elie's potential is, which is where i'm coming from in wondering about that.

That's never been said whatsoever.

Zeldris asked Meliodas point blank if he was going to train to become as strong as the DK. and Mel said himself that "it would take too long because Elizabeth only has 3 days". He didn't say it was impossible, nor did he say he would not have been able to do it without the condition of being on a timelimit

 

[Shutensatsu]

Again, we have no real evidence for the claim you are making as to her intentions. But what we do know is that Elizabeth is the same 'position' in the Goddess clan as Meliodas is in the Demon clan, and Nakaba has been hyping her since chapter 1. I think its very likely that her potential is more vast than we have seen

The commandments had to ask her who she even was when she approached them:

Spoiler

They knew who Ludo was by name already:

Spoiler

She got punched once:

Spoiler

Fainted and had to be protected:

Spoiler

They even knew who Tarmiel and Sariel were when they arrived:

Spoiler

She’s implied even weaker now than she was back then due to being a human now instead of a goddess:

Spoiler

https://m.imgur.com/a/TIYIy7d

And Ludo, Tarmiel, and Sariel all said human’s can’t even handle graces to begin with(except for Escanor).

She wasn’t relevant during the war outside of being Mel’s girlfriend that caused him to defect, and crumble the demons battle power.

She’s even weaker now, and she isn’t getting any graces.

I understand people want a badass female powerhouse to come in and wreck shit.

But Elizabeth wasn’t shit then, ain’t shit now, and will never be shit either.

They have also said that Mael was so strong, when he died, they felt that winning was impossible, basically gave up, and opted to seal them.

 

[sobreno]

The commandments had to ask her who she even was when she approached them:

Spoiler

They knew who Ludo was by name already:

Spoiler

She got punched once:

Spoiler

Fainted and had to be protected:

Spoiler

They even knew who Tarmiel and Sariel were when they arrived:

Spoiler

She’s implied even weaker now than she was back then due to being a human now instead of a goddess:

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/aFt2Eo9

And Ludo, Tarmiel, and Sariel all said human’s can’t even handle graces to begin with(except for Escanor).

She wasn’t relevant during the war outside of being Mel’s girlfriend that caused him to defect, and crumble the demons battle power.

She’s even weaker now, and she isn’t getting any graces.

I understand people want a badass female powerhouse to come in and wreck shit.

But Elizabeth wasn’t shit then, ain’t shit now, and will never be shit either.

She is currently back into her damsel in distress post lol.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

But Elizabeth wasn’t shit then, ain’t shit now, and will never be shit either.

None of the points you mentioned actually has much to do with Elizabeth herself being relevant or strong because of the following reasons:

A. The archangels were known because they were the group opposite of the 10c and the ones specifically ordered to go to war and fight as the Trump Cards against the Demons. And Elizabeth was never apart of the Archangels, so it makes sense that she would not be well known.

B. Elizabeth was a pacifist from the beginning, and so likely did not intentionally go out and fight until she met Mel, defected and started stigma with him to end the war.

C. Elizabeth's power is shown by, at the very least, being able to hold down both Indura Monspiet and Indura Derieri at the same time, who's combined powers in this form are still unknown, but were knocking back the 3 Archangels including Ludo..

C. Elizabeth being hit is irrelevant to her powers as they are.

D. Being in a human body is relatively meaningless due to the archangels also being in human bodies and having their full powers against the 10c, and the archangels even remarking on being impressed that Estarossa could shrug off her Ark whether she was in a human body or not. In addition to what we dont know regarding her actions that Mael were so impressed by.

E. Elie is gaining her abilities back slowly as the days pass. She just regrew her wings a few chapters ago.

In addition to the points i've laid out, my original post was musing on whether or not her abilities could get stronger than we've been shown. So you pointing out flawed instances to downplay her abilities was meaningless from the start, as i was not even referring to her previous or even current state.

 

[Shutensatsu]

None of the points you mentioned actually has much to do with Elizabeth herself being relevant or strong because of the following reasons:

If she was relevant they’d have known who she was, so it’s entirely relevant.

The goddess twins didn’t know Mel by face in the troll queen side story because they were fodder and it makes sense they would have never had to have come across him. However they did know his name, and that he was the almighty first born son of the DK and leader of the 10c. He was famous.

The Demons didn’t know ANYTHING about Elizabeth. And even when they heard her name they still had no reaction. Monspiet realized who she was only after she announced herself as the girlfriend of Meliodas.

She was a nobody.

A. The archangels were known because they were the group opposite of the 10c and the ones specifically ordered to go to war and fight as the Trump Cards against the Demons. And Elizabeth was never apart of the Archangels, so it makes sense that she would not be well known.

Yes. The queen sent her elite force to do battle with DK’s Elite force. The strongest demon was apart of his elite force at one time.

Elizabeth was never part of her elite force, and didn’t even have a job personally serving the queen like Zeldris(the executioner role) at the very least.

Why could that be I wonder?

B. Elizabeth was a pacifist from the beginning, and so likely did not intentionally go out and fight until she met Mel, defected and started stigma with him to end the war.

That’s you trying to explain her lack of relevance during the war, but ok.

I can roll with that.

C. Elizabeth's power is shown by, at the very least, being able to hold down both Indura Monspiet and Indura Derieri at the same time, who's combined powers in this form are still unknown, but were knocking back the 3 Archangels including Ludo.

They would have overpowered and killed with a single blow had she not received help, if 1 hit from normal Derierie makes her faint. Ludo took multiple blows without even being downed once from indura Derierie. Tarmiel/Sariel took hits from the normal commandments and healed immediately no delay. And nobody used their grace at all.

Saying “but she held them off” makes about as much sense as saying Matrona could beat a commandment because she held off Monspiet and Galan for a couple seconds and managed to escape with Diane.

Please explain to me how Matrona could beat a commandment because she held two off once for 5 seconds. Matrona held Galan in her rock prison for a couple seconds. Use that to explain to me how she could beat a commandmnet. If you do that I’ll say Elizabeth is the strongest because she held a indura in place for 5 seconds and had to be rescued by archangels to defeat them decisively.

C. Elizabeth being hit is irrelevant to her powers as they are.

Uh, It’s entirely relevant. The only time characters faint from getting bitchslapped is when they are weaker.

I don’t see Escanor fainting from Galan’s critical over strike. He did faint from Mel’s attacks though while he was(you guessed it!), way weaker.

D. Being in a human body is relatively meaningless due to the archangels also being in human bodies and having their full powers against the 10c, and the archangels even remarking on being impressed that Estarossa could shrug off her Ark whether she was in a human body or not. In addition to what we dont know regarding her actions that Mael were so impressed by.

She implied herself she was weaker. “My powers as they are now.”

Everything you just said trying to explain that away is irrelevant.

E. Elie is gaining her abilities back slowly as the days pass. She just regrew her wings a few chapters ago.

She’s not, and she didn’t. Those aren’t real wings. They’re the same wings she makes appear whenever she uses her powers. You can even see them disappearing again in the same chapter Estarossa swallows her up. Bottom Right hand corner.

Spoiler

In addition to the points i've laid out, my original post was musing on whether or not her abilities could get stronger than we've been shown. So you pointing out flawed instances to downplay her abilities was meaningless from the start, as i was not even referring to her previous or even current state.

You have to have potential in the first place to reach higher levels.

Can the first born son of the DK, whom is the second strongest demon behind himself by far, eventually train up to the level of his father?

Yes.

Can the daughter of the SD that’s getting one shot by commandments, can’t hurt a commandments with a ark after getting her old power back, gets one of her abilities called stupid by another commandment, and weaker than any of the four archangels train to reach the level of her mother?

Not likely.

She can beat low level commandmnets like Mera, Fraudrin, or Graylord absolutely.

She’s shown nothing that she says she could beat someone like Derierie 50K+.

And completely failed against the 60k Estarossa with her attack having zero effect.

Meliodas is the third strongest character in the series discounting “The One” forms of Mael/Escanor(and even that is the SD’s power not their own).

Elizabeth is weaker than like half the commandments, and all of the archangels.

You trying to say they’re the same, and have similar potential is absurd.

This isn’t the Elizabeth thread so I’m done.

Somebody can take over if they want.

 

[OtakuFreak]

But Elizabeth wasn’t shit then, ain’t shit now, and will never be shit either.

-Has feats which surpass every other Goddess in this series besides her own mother.

-Is literally praised by every AA for literally anything

-Is literally the only Supreme Goddesses daughter/child and has yet for her full powers revealed/explored. But from the looks of it they seem really powerful, since she casually slapped a passive 142k demon with her ark in a weaker form and still bruised him lol.

Mhm... yeah I think she is the ''shit'' in some ways...

She is currently back into her damsel in distress post lol.

Because you ignore the context as always.

She's not at her full power right now. She's a much weaker version of her Goddess self, so it's to be expected that she struggles against stronger opponnents.

Plus, you ignore how she's literally cursed to be a human, so without memories of course she's going to be a damsel, because the curse forces her to be.

But as a full Goddess, she wasn't a damsel. In fact, she saved the AA's from certain death against the Indura, but I don't see you calling them damsels? Oh wait is it because they have a confirmed PL or are blood-thirsty demon hunters?

The Demons didn’t know ANYTHING about Elizabeth. And even when they heard her name they still had no reaction. Monspiet realized who she was only after she announced herself as the girlfriend of Meliodas.

Once again, she's a pacifist and didn't fight with people.

Meliodas was known by everybody because he was a killer and fought all the time. Elizabeth never fought anybody, so her power wasn't demonstrated largely to the demons, hence how she isn't as well known.

Yes. The queen sent her elite force to do battle with DK’s Elite force. The strongest demon was apart of his elite force at one time.

Elizabeth was never part of her elite force, and didn’t even have a job personally serving the queen like Zeldris(the executioner role) at the very least.

Why could that be I wonder?

Because she's a pacifist LOL?

You all acknowledge she's a pacifist and then expect her to be in a military position of power that involves conflict? What a contradicting idea jeez.

Plus, her not being the Supreme Goddesses representative, or leader of the AA's or whatever doesn't take anything away from her power, it just means her personality isn't suited for the job, which is natural because she seeks peace instead of death/conflict.

They would have overpowered and killed with a single blow had she not received help, if 1 hit from normal Derierie makes her faint. Ludo took multiple blows without even being downed once from indura Derierie. Tarmiel/Sariel took hits from the normal commandments and healed immediately no delay. And nobody used their grace at all.

If it hadn't been for Elizabeth's interference, the AA's would've died, or at the minimum, be forced to retreat. Ah, but how did I come to this conclusion you ask?

-Sariel and Tarmiel got burn't and essentially one-shotted out of the fight by Indura Monspiet, and were held by his tentacles, so regeneration wasn't capable UNTIL Elizabeth's light and magic pushed him away so they could get free and then have the opportunity to heal themselves. If Elizabeth hadn't intervened, Monspiet would've probably killed them out of instinct had it not been for Ludoshel fighting Derriere and proving some type of distraction for him to watch.

-Ludoshel's ark, could do absolutely nothing to a mindless Phase 1 Derriere who didn't even take him seriously, so there's no way he would've outlasted or even survived against 2 Phase 2 Indura's going for the kill. Sure, he can take some hits but it's meaningless if he can't hit them back.

-The Graces would've done nothing. Sariel and Tarmiel's defensive properties can be overridden by pure power itself, so the Indura's would really have no problem with it. The dimension can't hold Indura. And even in a 2v1 against Estarossa their graces didn't do jack. Plus, from the looks of it Ludoshel grace just gives speed, so the best he can do is run away considering his ark can't do damage lol

So yes, while I agree Elizabeth would've eventually been fully pushed back and been unable to fully purify the Indura. If you compare the situations. She did so much better than all 3AA, considering how she was able to make a disadvantageous 1v2 battle still go her way in some ways, since she made them desperate and on the threshold of defeat, yet the AA couldn't do anything to mindless and careless Phase 1 Indura's.

Saying “but she held them off” makes about as much sense as saying Matrona could beat a commandment because she held off Monspiet and Galan for a couple seconds and managed to escape with Diane.

Point below.

Please explain to me how Matrona could beat a commandment because she held two off once for 5 seconds. Matrona held Galan in her rock prison for a couple seconds. Use that to explain to me how she could beat a commandmnet. If you do that I’ll say Elizabeth is the strongest because she held a indura in place for 5 seconds and had to be rescued by archangels to defeat them decisively.

There's a difference.

Matrona held them off. Did she significantly hurt them or made them struggle? No.

Elizabeth instead made the Indura so desperate they were forced to advance their demonic transformation to just barely stand against her purification, and this was when they had the number's advantage.

She’s shown nothing that she says she could beat someone like Derierie 50K+.

I love how people ignore the manga.

You know? Seeing Elizabeth melt Derriere's hand like butter in her weak human form without memories and in her Goddess form put Indura Derriere AT PHASE 2 at the point of desperation, and if it had not been for a 1v2, Elizabeth would've succeeded.

A prime Goddess Elizabeth would destroy Derriere, and in her Indura form she would mid-high difficulty win.

Elizabeth is weaker than like half the commandments, and all of the archangels.

Yeah, because weak Elizabeth who has some form of intelligence would stand in front of the truth commandment user Galan and threaten to take them all on herself right?

If she didn't believe it to be the truth (that she could take them on), then she would've be turned to stone.

But nope, she wasn't affected. And considering how her magic in her weak human memory less state melted Derriere's hand like butter, and in her Goddess form made 2 Phase 2 Indura's desperate. The commandments would literally be 1-2 shot by her if she was going in for the kill.

archangels.

LOL what

But Elizabeth has done feats which none of the AA have.

According to the facts in this manga:

-Elizabeth can heal better.

-Can purify better

-Can summon biblical animals for multiple purposes

-And can even hurt her enemies better, as seen by her bruising a passive 142k demon, WHOM the AA's feared whilst she wasn't even in her Goddess body, but rather in a weaker, human one.

So yeah, according to feats in this manga, Elizabeth is stronger than the AA because her ark does shit they can only dream of.

Wow a lot of Elizabeth hate comments especially about her power, can't wait for @OtakuFreak to see this, this will be good to watch

I was bored and ready for some controversy, ty for the mention

 

[Gut's is the man]

-Has feats which surpass every other Goddess in this series besides her own mother.

-Is literally praised by every AA for literally anything

-Is literally the only Supreme Goddesses daughter/child and has yet for her full powers revealed/explored. But from the looks of it they seem really powerful, since she casually slapped a passive 142k demon with her ark in a weaker form and still bruised him lol.

Mhm... yeah I think she is the ''shit'' in some ways...



Because you ignore the context as always.

She's not at her full power right now. She's a much weaker version of her Goddess self, so it's to be expected that she struggles against stronger opponnents.

Plus, you ignore how she's literally cursed to be a human, so without memories of course she's going to be a damsel, because the curse forces her to be.

But as a full Goddess, she wasn't a damsel. In fact, she saved the AA's from certain death against the Indura, but I don't see you calling them damsels? Oh wait is it because they have a confirmed PL or are blood-thirsty demon hunters?





Once again, she's a pacifist and didn't fight with people.

Meliodas was known by everybody because he was a killer and fought all the time. Elizabeth never fought anybody, so her power wasn't demonstrated largely to the demons, hence how she isn't as well known.



Because she's a pacifist LOL?

You all acknowledge she's a pacifist and then expect her to be in a military position of power that involves conflict? What a contradicting idea jeez.

Plus, her not being the Supreme Goddesses representative, or leader of the AA's or whatever doesn't take anything away from her power, it just means her personality isn't suited for the job, which is natural because she seeks peace instead of death/conflict.



If it hadn't been for Elizabeth's interference, the AA's would've died, or at the minimum, be forced to retreat. Ah, but how did I come to this conclusion you ask?

-Sariel and Tarmiel got burn't and essentially one-shotted out of the fight by Indura Monspiet, and were held by his tentacles, so regeneration wasn't capable UNTIL Elizabeth's light and magic pushed him away so they could get free and then have the opportunity to heal themselves. If Elizabeth hadn't intervened, Monspiet would've probably killed them out of instinct had it not been for Ludoshel fighting Derriere and proving some type of distraction for him to watch.

-Ludoshel's ark, could do absolutely nothing to a mindless Phase 1 Derriere who didn't even take him seriously, so there's no way he would've outlasted or even survived against 2 Phase 2 Indura's going for the kill. Sure, he can take some hits but it's meaningless if he can't hit them back.

-The Graces would've done nothing. Sariel and Tarmiel's defensive properties can be overridden by pure power itself, so the Indura's would really have no problem with it. The dimension can't hold Indura. And even in a 2v1 against Estarossa their graces didn't do jack. Plus, from the looks of it Ludoshel grace just gives speed, so the best he can do is run away considering his ark can't do damage lol

So yes, while I agree Elizabeth would've eventually been fully pushed back and been unable to fully purify the Indura. If you compare the situations. She did so much better than all 3AA, considering how she was able to make a disadvantageous 1v2 battle still go her way in some ways, since she made them desperate and on the threshold of defeat, yet the AA couldn't do anything to mindless and careless Phase 1 Indura's.



Point below.



There's a difference.

Matrona held them off. Did she significantly hurt them or made them struggle? No.

Elizabeth instead made the Indura so desperate they were forced to advance their demonic transformation to just barely stand against her purification, and this was when they had the number's advantage.





I love how people ignore the manga.

You know? Seeing Elizabeth melt Derriere's hand like butter in her weak human form without memories and in her Goddess form put Indura Derriere AT PHASE 2 at the point of desperation, and if it had not been for a 1v2, Elizabeth would've succeeded.

A prime Goddess Elizabeth would destroy Derriere, and in her Indura form she would mid-high difficulty win.



Yeah, because weak Elizabeth who has some form of intelligence would stand in front of the truth commandment user Galan and threaten to take them all on herself right?

If she didn't believe it to be the truth (that she could take them on), then she would've be turned to stone.

But nope, she wasn't affected. And considering how her magic in her weak human memory less state melted Derriere's hand like butter, and in her Goddess form made 2 Phase 2 Indura's desperate. The commandments would literally be 1-2 shot by her if she was going in for the kill.



LOL what

But Elizabeth has done feats which none of the AA have.

According to the facts in this manga:

-Elizabeth can heal better.

-Can purify better

-Can summon biblical animals for multiple purposes

-And can even hurt her enemies better, as seen by her bruising a passive 142k demon, WHOM the AA's feared whilst she wasn't even in her Goddess body, but rather in a weaker, human one.

So yeah, according to feats in this manga, Elizabeth is stronger than the AA because her ark does shit they can only dream of.





I was bored and ready for some controversy, ty for the mention

Dude, you always bring up the indura feat and she passed out after it.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Dude, you always bring up the indura feat and she passed out after it.

Of course because it's the only feat in her prime Goddess form where she uses the full extent of her magic power with the full desire to do something.

It's like you talking about Meliodas power and never mentioning Assault Mode lol

Other feats are somewhat impressive, but they're just Elizabeth casually slapping, moving people away, or mass-healing and communicating to Demons without much effort. Those don't show the maximum amount of power she has ideally, but the Indura feat certainly does.

It's her best feat, why wouldn't I bring it up to defend her? And her passing out means nothing, other characters have done the same in their battles when going all out.

 

[Gojo Satoru]

I'v noticed how the major debate throughout this entire discussion is in regards to Elizabeth's power standing within the series and is comical seeing how little some think of her.

Remember when Estarossa absorbed a commandment his power shot up by 28K and because 4G=10C
1 Grace=2.5 Commadments (roughly)
All the Archangels have graces and they would have a tremendous boost of like 50K+ with it(notice how without it they can't touch Esta)

Elizabeth doesn't have a grace so she shouldn't even be compared with the Archangels and yet she still has shown to be able to outperform them on more than one occasion let that sink in...

 

[OtakuFreak]

I'v noticed how the major debate throughout this entire discussion is in regards to Elizabeth's power standing within the series and is comical seeing how little some think of her.

Because she's a pacifist. People would treat her more seriously if she was basically the Goddess version of Meliodas (a sociopath)

Honestly the position of being the Supreme Goddesses only daughter/child should be enough for people to take her serious and not casually discard her when considering powerful characters in this manga

Remember when Estarossa absorbed a commandment his power shot up by 28K and because 4G=10C
1 Grace=2.5 Commadments (roughly)
All the Archangels have graces and they would have a tremendous boost of like 50K+ with it(notice how without it they can't touch Esta)

Holding a Grace doesn't directly increase PL, only if you absorb them, and when you do, you lose the magic ability.

And besides, the AA's have these borderline broken magic abilities from Elizabeth's mother, yet she is still able to outperform them in so many areas in regards to her magic power. She objectively has better feats than them.

The only AA who definitely is stronger than Elizabeth was Mael, but since he relied on the Supreme Goddesses power for that ''strongest AA'' position + he's dead, it's basically irrelevant.

Elizabeth > AA tbh

Elizabeth doesn't have a grace so she shouldn't even be compared with the Archangels and yet she still has shown to be able to outperform them on more than one occasion let that sink in...

It would be a nice twist if Elizabeth's mother gave her a unique power, maybe even a Grace?

At the moment I just think the Supreme Goddess taught her abilities that fundamentally work well with the graces, so one day where she might ascend to the throne, she can be even more powerful than her mother. E.G Biblical Whale + Dimensional Ocean Grace = Fucking terrifying.

Also, did I inspire your profile picture? - everybody going to get confused now.

 

[OtakuFreak]

That guy from tumblr 'coffin of eternal darkness' posted the next part of the extra story of the druids altar with translations and Escanor shows up ,looks like jelamet recognizes Mael's grace in him.
Kinda of make sense now with all these theories

Jeez. Nerobasta loved Ludoshel and Jelamet loved Mael

Do all fodder female Goddesses fall in love with the superior male ones?

And Jelamet inside a host was able to somewhat injure a willing Meliodas at 3k? Or was it 30-60k (before Merlin took his power?). If it's the latter then the divine lance corporal seem like low tier commandment level.

 

[Gut's is the man]

Of course because it's the only feat in her prime Goddess form where she uses the full extent of her magic power with the full desire to do something.

It's like you talking about Meliodas power and never mentioning Assault Mode lol

Other feats are somewhat impressive, but they're just Elizabeth casually slapping, moving people away, or mass-healing and communicating to Demons without much effort. Those don't show the maximum amount of power she has ideally, but the Indura feat certainly does.

It's her best feat, why wouldn't I bring it up to defend her? And her passing out means nothing, other characters have done the same in their battles when going all out.

Yeah and the fact that's it and she still needed help put's a hole in your case.

 

[sobreno]

-Has feats which surpass every other Goddess in this series besides her own mother.

-Is literally praised by every AA for literally anything

-Is literally the only Supreme Goddesses daughter/child and has yet for her full powers revealed/explored. But from the looks of it they seem really powerful, since she casually slapped a passive 142k demon with her ark in a weaker form and still bruised him lol.

Mhm... yeah I think she is the ''shit'' in some ways...



Because you ignore the context as always.

She's not at her full power right now. She's a much weaker version of her Goddess self, so it's to be expected that she struggles against stronger opponnents.

Plus, you ignore how she's literally cursed to be a human, so without memories of course she's going to be a damsel, because the curse forces her to be.

But as a full Goddess, she wasn't a damsel. In fact, she saved the AA's from certain death against the Indura, but I don't see you calling them damsels? Oh wait is it because they have a confirmed PL or are blood-thirsty demon hunters?





Once again, she's a pacifist and didn't fight with people.

Meliodas was known by everybody because he was a killer and fought all the time. Elizabeth never fought anybody, so her power wasn't demonstrated largely to the demons, hence how she isn't as well known.



Because she's a pacifist LOL?

You all acknowledge she's a pacifist and then expect her to be in a military position of power that involves conflict? What a contradicting idea jeez.

Plus, her not being the Supreme Goddesses representative, or leader of the AA's or whatever doesn't take anything away from her power, it just means her personality isn't suited for the job, which is natural because she seeks peace instead of death/conflict.



If it hadn't been for Elizabeth's interference, the AA's would've died, or at the minimum, be forced to retreat. Ah, but how did I come to this conclusion you ask?

-Sariel and Tarmiel got burn't and essentially one-shotted out of the fight by Indura Monspiet, and were held by his tentacles, so regeneration wasn't capable UNTIL Elizabeth's light and magic pushed him away so they could get free and then have the opportunity to heal themselves. If Elizabeth hadn't intervened, Monspiet would've probably killed them out of instinct had it not been for Ludoshel fighting Derriere and proving some type of distraction for him to watch.

-Ludoshel's ark, could do absolutely nothing to a mindless Phase 1 Derriere who didn't even take him seriously, so there's no way he would've outlasted or even survived against 2 Phase 2 Indura's going for the kill. Sure, he can take some hits but it's meaningless if he can't hit them back.

-The Graces would've done nothing. Sariel and Tarmiel's defensive properties can be overridden by pure power itself, so the Indura's would really have no problem with it. The dimension can't hold Indura. And even in a 2v1 against Estarossa their graces didn't do jack. Plus, from the looks of it Ludoshel grace just gives speed, so the best he can do is run away considering his ark can't do damage lol

So yes, while I agree Elizabeth would've eventually been fully pushed back and been unable to fully purify the Indura. If you compare the situations. She did so much better than all 3AA, considering how she was able to make a disadvantageous 1v2 battle still go her way in some ways, since she made them desperate and on the threshold of defeat, yet the AA couldn't do anything to mindless and careless Phase 1 Indura's.



Point below.



There's a difference.

Matrona held them off. Did she significantly hurt them or made them struggle? No.

Elizabeth instead made the Indura so desperate they were forced to advance their demonic transformation to just barely stand against her purification, and this was when they had the number's advantage.





I love how people ignore the manga.

You know? Seeing Elizabeth melt Derriere's hand like butter in her weak human form without memories and in her Goddess form put Indura Derriere AT PHASE 2 at the point of desperation, and if it had not been for a 1v2, Elizabeth would've succeeded.

A prime Goddess Elizabeth would destroy Derriere, and in her Indura form she would mid-high difficulty win.



Yeah, because weak Elizabeth who has some form of intelligence would stand in front of the truth commandment user Galan and threaten to take them all on herself right?

If she didn't believe it to be the truth (that she could take them on), then she would've be turned to stone.

But nope, she wasn't affected. And considering how her magic in her weak human memory less state melted Derriere's hand like butter, and in her Goddess form made 2 Phase 2 Indura's desperate. The commandments would literally be 1-2 shot by her if she was going in for the kill.



LOL what

But Elizabeth has done feats which none of the AA have.

According to the facts in this manga:

-Elizabeth can heal better.

-Can purify better

-Can summon biblical animals for multiple purposes

-And can even hurt her enemies better, as seen by her bruising a passive 142k demon, WHOM the AA's feared whilst she wasn't even in her Goddess body, but rather in a weaker, human one.

So yeah, according to feats in this manga, Elizabeth is stronger than the AA because her ark does shit they can only dream of.





I was bored and ready for some controversy, ty for the mention

Lmao, you are the one who ignores the context as always Elizabeth fanboy.

Yes, she is at full power, as noted by both Merlin and Derrierie, her original power is back until the day she dies again.
You act like this is the first time that she is the damsel in distress role, continue to lie to youself, she is once again protected by other ( as always ) and lol at she saved them against the Indura, Ludoshel was stating that things becomes " interesting ".

Word of someone who was in danger? Nope, she was the one who got saved by them from the start and to the end, she collapsed like the weakling she is.

Try again.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2018 ---

Because she's a pacifist. People would treat her more seriously if she was basically the Goddess version of Meliodas (a sociopath)

Honestly the position of being the Supreme Goddesses only daughter/child should be enough for people to take her serious and not casually discard her when considering powerful characters in this manga



Holding a Grace doesn't directly increase PL, only if you absorb them, and when you do, you lose the magic ability.

And besides, the AA's have these borderline broken magic abilities from Elizabeth's mother, yet she is still able to outperform them in so many areas in regards to her magic power. She objectively has better feats than them.

The only AA who definitely is stronger than Elizabeth was Mael, but since he relied on the Supreme Goddesses power for that ''strongest AA'' position + he's dead, it's basically irrelevant.

Elizabeth > AA tbh



It would be a nice twist if Elizabeth's mother gave her a unique power, maybe even a Grace?

At the moment I just think the Supreme Goddess taught her abilities that fundamentally work well with the graces, so one day where she might ascend to the throne, she can be even more powerful than her mother. E.G Biblical Whale + Dimensional Ocean Grace = Fucking terrifying.

Also, did I inspire your profile picture? - everybody going to get confused now.

Lol the wank is real, she is weaker than the 4 Archangels, Tarmiel said it and she doesn't have a grace, power of the SD herself.

You are getting desesperate. She isn't even a warrior or a fighter and you are comparing her to the highest fighter in the Goddess Clan, chosen by the SD herself?

All she do was always healing stuff...

 

[Inuhanyou123]

Yeah and the fact that's it and she still needed help put's a hole in your case.

"Puts a hole in your case' how exactly? She was able to hold back 2 induras on her own for a period of time. Whether she needed help from the archangels or not to fully subjugate them is meaningless to her capability by default, as THEY themselves were unable to do anything without her intervening beyond a fight to the death where they could most certainly die. We can assume without the concept of "graces"(IE borrowed power) Elizabeth is the strongest angel besides her mother, in the same way Mel is to his father without the concept of commandments, but this power is obfuscated due to her choosing the hardest path every time(non violence)

And yes i realize that as graces and commandments DO exist, including them obviously is the most legitimate path, but using the opposite argument just shows how strong Elizabeth has been shown to be without any outside boosts or cheats.

 

[Gojo Satoru]

I'm Pretty New Here So I'll Just Say I'm A Big Fan Of Elizabeth And This Is My Analysis On Her Confusing Power Level Standing.

She's the daughter of the Supreme Deity the other of the two gods in the series so that's a feat in itself tbh.

Nakaba said that just like how the Demon Clan's power is measured by the number of hearts in the GC it's done by the number of wings and the size of the wings.Compare her wings to her clanmates.Nerobasta and Jelemet both have one pair.Eli's ratio of wings is the same formula as the AA(except Tarmiel he has 6 wings).She has two large and two small pairs same as Mael,Sariel and Ludoshel.But from the panels you easily see the difference in size compared to Sariel her size are closer to that of Ludoshel and honestly some panels hers look bigger if you ask me.You know what that means.Her power is most close to Ludoshel and when they both constructed their blades to form the alliance their blades of light were equal.So I think she's the same league as Ludoshel but both use their power differently(one heals her ass off,the other kills demons like he breathes air)

And I've explained earlier in the thread why people should not disregard her feat against the Indura even if Nakaba made the Archangels look sloppy to uplift Eli she still damned proved herself.

 

[Commanderaxe]

Why are we always back to this argument lol. Can we wait until she gets actual offensive feats. Her best feat is purifying, yes, but that was in the case of a very particular spell "let there be light". A spell meant to purify excessive darkness, something we don't even know if the other AA's can do. Hence she had a particular advantage in that fight. Every other feat she has is full of extreme inconsistencies. Even her recent feat against Estarossa, he was already in pain and borderline losing consciousness. We wont know where she stands in power until we get a straight up 1v1 with her. If she's against an enemy that she can effectively purge, then she gains an advantage. Granted the Indura's just stood there and watched her talk for a good 10 seconds when previously they blitzed someone as fast as Ludociel but whatever lol.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

Why are we always back to this argument lol. Can we wait until she gets actual offensive feats. Her best feat is purifying, yes, but that was in the case of a very particular spell "let there be light".

That's not a fair barometer because Elie is a pacifist. She wont be "fighting" anyone likely. And IMO, she doesn't need to, people are just obsessed with tearing her down cause they cant read the manga right. Her offensive capability was already proven when she blew off derieri's hand without even trying, when nerobasta could not do shit despite using the same spell and using her full power. I don't think there's really anything else that needs to be said. Replace Derieri's hand with her whole body, and there, Elizabeth has the capability of blinking out a 10c on her own whim

 

[Commanderaxe]

That's not a fair barometer because Elie is a pacifist. She wont be "fighting" anyone likely. And IMO, she doesn't need to, people are just obsessed with tearing her down cause they cant read the manga right. Her offensive capability was already proven when she blew off derieri's hand without even trying, when nerobasta could not do shit despite using the same spell and using her full power. I don't think there's really anything else that needs to be said. Replace Derieri's hand with her whole body, and there, Elizabeth has the capability of blinking out a 10c on her own whim

Derriere stood there as her arm was being destroyed. Didn't move an inch to attack, whether it was her other arm, or a foot. We're talking about someone massively faster than Galan who blitz the sins rather easily. Not to mention we can't compare the two as Elizabeth targeted one arm whereas Nerobasta tried to destroy her entire body at once, which would require distributing more power all over. We saw that when Elizabeth used a full body ark on Estarossa yet he was without a single scratch. I mean if an Elizabeth without her full memories could pop Derriere's arm with ease, you'd think an awakened Elizabeth could at LEAST scratch Estarossa, someone whose strength stat(which is linked to durability) is really only about 5k higher. Especially since in that case, she actually knew what she was doing. Yet Estarossa shrugged it off without so much as a scratch. Something even the 4AA commented on. This could only mean that there's a very clear difference between an ark focused on a small part of the body, and an ark focused on it's entirety, sort of like a Piranha. A piranha can devour a hand in minutes, but an entire body would require hours. We also saw that very same scenario here

Spoiler

Meliodas at that time was roughly around 60k+ in base. Yet his arms were entirely burnt afterwards. Yet by your logic if Elizabeth's ark could simply shred an entire body in seconds, or on a "whim" as you called it, then Estarossa shouldve had SOME damage correct? Yet Mel here took damage. The same Mel who in that panel, is at the very LEAST(but most likely higher due to the mark size), equal to Estarossa in strength, had his hands shredded.

Spoiler

In conclusion, there is a vast difference in focusing one part of the body with ark, and using it on the body as a whole.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

i mean, that's a whole lot of attempting to simply say elizabeth cant mortally wound a 10c if she wanted to, when we know tht's not the case

I'm not really sure what the points even being debated are. THat elie cant fight if she wanted to? That she's not strong? But that's obviously not borne out by the facts that we have. So why does it feel like everytime Elizabeth is brought up we have the same circular arguments for no reason it seems like

 

[Commanderaxe]

i mean, that's a whole lot of attempting to simply say elizabeth cant mortally wound a 10c if she wanted to, when we know tht's not the case

I'm not really sure what the points even being debated are. THat elie cant fight if she wanted to? That she's not strong? But that's obviously not borne out by the facts that we have. So why does it feel like everytime Elizabeth is brought up we have the same circular arguments for no reason it seems like

A weaker 10c perhaps, but theres been nothing to show she can stand against the top tiers like Estarossa, Zeldris, Monspiet, Dolor, Gloxinia. Hell she hasnt even shown feats that she can tag someone moving at Galan's level of speed. Her feats are against her, there's no arguing this.