Discussion Elizabeth

How did Elizabeth figure out that she and Meliodas were cursed?


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sobreno

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She has feats as a goddess above those of the 4 AAs, physicality aside.
Until Ludociel goes anywhere near soloing at least 1 Indura, he's inferior to her with his Grace.
She faced what looks like AM Mel without a Grace.
There is no statement or implication whatsoever in this series that she ever needed to hold a Grace to be ranked as high as those guys, yet they all acknowledged her power.
Merlin has been shown to not know everything about Elizabeth and Meliodas' past as some like to think. And she was talking about Elizabeth's ability, clearly not her full PL. The heterochromia and the statements about the importance of the vessel for a goddess soul to deliver its best in magic still bear the same implication. She is currently not at full power.
Derrieri has only ever made a statement about the nature of her power, not its extent at this given time nor its extent back when she was in her original body. She can't read PLs.
The joke is always on you for trying to overhype Meliodas, the same guy who was the first character to make positive statements about Elizabeth's power. You've been trying for ages to pass his comments off for pitying encouragements even though more and more characters are joining into placing Elizabeth in the AM Mel, Mael and Ludociel's general tier.
Lol where? Show me that.

You means that she faced along with Sar and Tar, what is less than AM Mel lmao.
Yes, it is, in order to be recognized like a worthy warrior, you need to hold a grace or a commandment by the Gods.
That is Mael got Love as a reward.
That is why Mel and Zel got it too.

She wasn't recognized by the SD herself, hence why she didn't get it.
Merlin clearly stated her " Original " power. Nice try at denying facts.
Derrierie also noted that she was indeed Goddess Elizabeth after seeing her magic.
You seriously lack reading comprehension.

What characters? You are daydreaming lmao.
First, she was never compared to AM Mel, not even once visually.
Second, any idiot know that AM Mel is far above Ludo and Mael as showed by how the latter run away from 2nd Mark Mel in their confrontation.

Feats are above any statements.

Hell, even Zeldoris is fighting on part with Ludo, same Zeldoris that was trashed in 3 seconds by a casual awakened AM Mel.

Overhype Mel? You sound retarded after the recent reveal of his godly hidden magic power which is above the Gods. When you can show a feat higher than destroying the DK's arm casually.
You will talk about overhyping Mel for nothing.
You are literally downplaying him and his feats are screaming hype lmao.

Try again.
 
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MrSchmitty7

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Where did that win and where in these forums are that and all the other 5 points anything else than crassly subjective interpretations since we have no statements of her PL in her original form, yet we have a manga statement from a character that would place her somewhere in the 142k+ - 200k+ range?! The comparison with Mel, Ludo and Mael stays until Nakaba himself actually deunks it.
It would be if everyone else’s numbers weren’t inflated though. It’s still the same statement that she’s in that tier, the only difference is that everyone else’s numbers just went up. Point being the old 100K statement was more about her placement and not the literal number. And we know this because 100K was stated to be an estimate from the start. It still just goes Mel, Mael, Ludo/Elizabeth. Being 100K or 200K doesn’t really change much when everyone else goes up, it just makes the numbers look odd.

to;dr 100K was never literal, it just meant that she was comparable to Ludoshel because we thought his power level back then was around 100K
 

Gut's is the man

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She has feats as a goddess above those of the 4 AAs, physicality aside.
Until Ludociel goes anywhere near soloing at least 1 Indura, he's inferior to her with his Grace.
She faced what looks like AM Mel without a Grace.
There is no statement or implication whatsoever in this series that she ever needed to hold a Grace to be ranked as high as those guys, yet they all acknowledged her power.
Merlin has been shown to not know everything about Elizabeth and Meliodas' past as some like to think. And she was talking about Elizabeth's ability, clearly not her full PL. The heterochromia and the statements about the importance of the vessel for a goddess soul to deliver its best in magic still bear the same implication. She is currently not at full power.
Derrieri has only ever made a statement about the nature of her power, not its extent at this given time nor its extent back when she was in her original body. She can't read PLs.
The joke is always on you for trying to overhype Meliodas, the same guy who was the first character to make positive statements about Elizabeth's power. You've been trying for ages to pass his comments off for pitying encouragements even though more and more characters are joining into placing Elizabeth in the AM Mel, Mael and Ludociel's general tier.
Dude, get over the whole goddess clan blah, blah, blah! We already know the "choice" about the CoED was based on entirely subjective machinations due to Gowther Sr's personal grudge.
I've heard you had serious reasons to stay away for these few months, but you should've caught up with the manga before coming back. And I mean it, catch up with the actual manga, not some shabbily and subjectively written reaction to some wikia synopsys.
she needed the AA help.
 

OtakuFreak

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she needed the AA help.
Yes, Elizabeth needed help in fully purifying the Indura given she couldn't escape the stalemate that was happening in the tug of war against them - but at the same time, the fact that she needed help doesn't really qualify as a good counterargument given that no one individually could defeat the Indura.

Did Ludoshel need help? Yes, far more than what Elizabeth needed since he couldn't even scratch a single Indura at a weaker phase.

Did Sariel & Tarmiel need help? Yes, far more than Ludoshel needed given they were under the claws of Monspeet and unable to regenerate.

So the argument of ''she needed help'' is irrelevant given that if you look at an individual standpoint, Elizabeth outperformed the Four Archangels when fighting against the Indura, despite them having blessings that enhance their combat prowess from the Supreme Deity.

Yes, I'm fully aware that the Four Archangels weren't fully utilising their blessings in this battle - but given how 3C-Mael made Sariel/Tarmiel struggle despite a numbers advantage and he's simply a drop in the ocean compared to the power of two Indura's that fodderized Ludoshel at 200,000+ makes me confident in saying they would've been helpless, even with Ocean & Tornado.

As for Ludoshel & Flash, until I see it in battle next chapter I still hold the firm belief that he would be defeated by the Indura's even though he would perform significantly better than his counterpart angels.

So did the guy that screamed for it. What are you trying to prove?
It's the only argument they have against Elizabeth's greatest feat, which is extremely weak given everyone else around her required more help than she ever did.
 

Shadowlord123

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Can't believe I've never made a comment in this thread. Ok, here's my analysis regarding her power:

- Her magic release alone pushed everyone away and made the Induras wary about her, something that it didn't happen once with the AA (even though Ludo wasn't going all out). Then, she proceeded to push back the Induras and make them desperate for resisting their light in Mel's words. Of course, she needed help at the end, and she used most of her magic in the process, however none of that makes her look bad as none of the AA, as far as we know could have defeated the Induras alone.

- She was able to stand just as well as 2nd Mark Mel against the Gods. Now, I've seen people here commenting that this feat doesn't count because we don't know what happened, and I agree with that, we don't know what happened, however we can take some conclusions judging by the images. We can see Eli being just as damaged as 2nd Mark Mel (who is at 200K). That means that she at least did take one attack from the Gods and their attacks couldn't have been less than 200K since they were damaging 2nd Mark Mel.

- At her weakest state, she was able to destroy Derieri's hand with an Ark. I know that Derieri was catched off-guard and she could have protected herself against that perfectly but it is still an impressive feat judging that she was at her weakest state (she didn't even have her memories yet).

- With memories she was able to easily purge Melascula, a member of the Ten Commandments whose PL is 34K and also she was able to slap an awakened AM Mel with enough force to send him flying across the room and bruise him. Reminding that an awakened AM Mel should be easily over 200K since he trashed Zeldris who is no-selling attacks from a 201K Ludo. To point out something, Mel allowed her to hit him and he arguably wasn't prepared for that slap, even though none of this makes her look bad.

- We also have a statement for Mael in which he compares her power to the likes of Ludoshel and 2nd Mark Mel. I've seen people saying that this statement is biased and laughable, however I don't see how it is. Goddess Eli has plenty of feats that support the idea of her being comparable to these people (like for example pushing back the Indura who were overwhelming Ludoshel or standing just as well as 2nd Mark Mel against the Gods). In addition to this, Gowther didn't even deny it and said that the reason he was chosen was because he killed OG Gowther's lover. Judging by the context and feats, I don't see how that statement makes zero sense. Her wings (which depict the rank of a Goddess and most of the times power) are comparable to Ludo and Mael also.

These are all the positive feats and statements that Eli has if my memory is right. Now let's look at the negatives:

- She got oneshotted by Derieri's punch. Yes, she was caught off-guard but that's no excuse. The AA have taken the same or even greater damage, and they were off-guard too. That doesn't speak well of her durability.

- Her Ark in Human body with Memories didn't do anything to a 60K Estarossa. Now, you could argue that the reason why it didn't was because he was originally a Goddess, however, he also broke through the Ark with pure darkness.

- She got damaged by one of Chandler's minion soldiers when she was running away from Camelot. Another feat that doesn't speak too well for her durability, even if she was caught of guard and is in a human body.

- She was pretty much unknown to the DC and also she didn't have a Grace but honestly, if we look at her character' background this makes sense. We know that Eli won't fight unless it is a last resort and she didn't want to kill the demons at all. Why would the SD give someone a Grace, a power that is supposed to be used for destroying the demons to someone that doesn't want to destroy them? Finally, Ludo said that if she were to join them in destroying the demons, her mother would break the curse on her, showing some signs that her mother still cares about her and wants her back (possibly for her power most likely?).

These are all the negative feats and statements that come to my mind right now. It should be noted that two of them are from her being in a human body in which she should be weaker. The proof that in his original body she's stronger is that when she was holding the AM Mel that got defeated by Escanor she said this: “With my power as it is now, I may not be able to stop him if he fully reverts”. Additionally, a Goddess Body should be all the way better than a Human Body.

Honestly, my overall stance is that her magic power is amazing and she definitely has the capacity to hurt people that are on the 200K range. Her overall durability is pretty poor but she probably can compensate that with magic (like magic barriers or something? It would also explain why she was able to tank at least one attack from the Gods but was oneshotted by Derieri's punch). As far as we know, her battle experience and reactions are not the best either since she rarely fights. I'd say that she sits around 200.000, she definitely has power but her battle skill, experience and personality holds her power a lot in my opinion.

Of course, this is all my opinion and it isn't a fact. Thoughts?
 

Kinguxsloth

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Can't believe I've never made a comment in this thread. Ok, here's my analysis regarding her power:

- Her magic release alone pushed everyone away and made the Induras wary about her, something that it didn't happen once with the AA (even though Ludo wasn't going all out). Then, she proceeded to push back the Induras and make them desperate for resisting their light in Mel's words. Of course, she needed help at the end, and she used most of her magic in the process, however none of that makes her look bad as none of the AA, as far as we know could have defeated the Induras alone.

- She was able to stand just as well as 2nd Mark Mel against the Gods. Now, I've seen people here commenting that this feat doesn't count because we don't know what happened, and I agree with that, we don't know what happened, however we can take some conclusions judging by the images. We can see Eli being just as damaged as 2nd Mark Mel (who is at 200K). That means that she at least did take one attack from the Gods and their attacks couldn't have been less than 200K since they were damaging 2nd Mark Mel.

- At her weakest state, she was able to destroy Derieri's hand with an Ark. I know that Derieri was catched off-guard and she could have protected herself against that perfectly but it is still an impressive feat judging that she was at her weakest state (she didn't even have her memories yet).

- With memories she was able to easily purge Melascula, a member of the Ten Commandments whose PL is 34K and also she was able to slap an awakened AM Mel with enough force to send him flying across the room and bruise him. Reminding that an awakened AM Mel should be easily over 200K since he trashed Zeldris who is no-selling attacks from a 201K Ludo. To point out something, Mel allowed her to hit him and he arguably wasn't prepared for that slap, even though none of this makes her look bad.

- We also have a statement for Mael in which he compares her power to the likes of Ludoshel and 2nd Mark Mel. I've seen people saying that this statement is biased and laughable, however I don't see how it is. Goddess Eli has plenty of feats that support the idea of her being comparable to these people (like for example pushing back the Indura who were overwhelming Ludoshel or standing just as well as 2nd Mark Mel against the Gods). In addition to this, Gowther didn't even deny it and said that the reason he was chosen was because he killed OG Gowther's lover. Judging by the context and feats, I don't see how that statement makes zero sense. Her wings (which depict the rank of a Goddess and most of the times power) are comparable to Ludo and Mael also.

These are all the positive feats and statements that Eli has if my memory is right. Now let's look at the negatives:

- She got oneshotted by Derieri's punch. Yes, she was caught off-guard but that's no excuse. The AA have taken the same or even greater damage, and they were off-guard too. That doesn't speak well of her durability.

- Her Ark in Human body with Memories didn't do anything to a 60K Estarossa. Now, you could argue that the reason why it didn't was because he was originally a Goddess, however, he also broke through the Ark with pure darkness.

- She got damaged by one of Chandler's minion soldiers when she was running away from Camelot. Another feat that doesn't speak too well for her durability, even if she was caught of guard and is in a human body.

- She was pretty much unknown to the DC and also she didn't have a Grace but honestly, if we look at her character' background this makes sense. We know that Eli won't fight unless it is a last resort and she didn't want to kill the demons at all. Why would the SD give someone a Grace, a power that is supposed to be used for destroying the demons to someone that doesn't want to destroy them? Finally, Ludo said that if she were to join them in destroying the demons, her mother would break the curse on her, showing some signs that her mother still cares about her and wants her back (possibly for her power most likely?).

These are all the negative feats and statements that come to my mind right now. It should be noted that two of them are from her being in a human body in which she should be weaker. The proof that in his original body she's stronger is that when she was holding the AM Mel that got defeated by Escanor she said this: “With my power as it is now, I may not be able to stop him if he fully reverts”. Additionally, a Goddess Body should be all the way better than a Human Body.

Honestly, my overall stance is that her magic power is amazing and she definitely has the capacity to hurt people that are on the 200K range. Her overall durability is pretty poor but she probably can compensate that with magic (like magic barriers or something? It would also explain why she was able to tank at least one attack from the Gods but was oneshotted by Derieri's punch). As far as we know, her battle experience and reactions are not the best either since she rarely fights. I'd say that she sits around 200.000, she definitely has power but her battle skill, experience and personality holds her power a lot in my opinion.

Of course, this is all my opinion and it isn't a fact. Thoughts?
Great analysis.THANK GOD THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE IN HERE THAT ARE REASONABLE AND DON'T TREAT AN OPINION AS A FACT.
 

Meliodaf

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I personally believe Elizabeth maintained consciousness at the least longer than Meliodas did against the Demon King and Supreme Diety and that’s impressive.
 

Gut's is the man

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I personally believe Elizabeth maintained consciousness at the least longer than Meliodas did against the Demon King and Supreme Diety and that’s impressive.
What do you have to abse that on?
 

Meliodaf

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What do you have to abse that on?
Meliodas was unaware of his curse until The savage tribe Elizabeth told him about it. It’s a guess obviously but I think it might have been explained in their last few minutes of life and Meliodas wasn’t lucid enough to hear or understand it.
 

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Meliodas was unaware of his curse until The savage tribe Elizabeth told him about it. It’s a guess obviously but I think it might have been explained in their last few minutes of life and Meliodas wasn’t lucid enough to hear or understand it.
How would she have known? Heck how could she have outlasted him if he's far more physically durable than her?
 

Meliodaf

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How would she have known? Heck how could she have outlasted him if he's far more physically durable than her?
Questions I don’t have the answer to but she clearly was aware of their curses and Meliodas was not and they were cursed before they died. Her being conscious (at the least) longer than Meliodas would make sense.
 

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Questions I don’t have the answer to but she clearly was aware of their curses and Meliodas was not and they were cursed before they died. Her being conscious (at the least) longer than Meliodas would make sense.
All part of the SD plan.
 

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Maybe but I can’t see how that would work in her favor
Mentally tortures Meliodas to the point where he become her tool and Liz is rendered as more a item due to never being able to remember without have just a three day time limit. Fuck it's actually brilliant. Liz is not a threat, Meliodas has to continually watch her die. The two can never have enough time to become a threat.

Also what do you think is the important of Liz's earring? It has a shine at specific moments and it has the sun, moon and stars on it, implying it's linked to the goddess.
 

OtakuFreak

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How would she have known? Heck how could she have outlasted him if he's far more physically durable than her?
Elizabeth already knew that her mother was going to punish her before it even happened, since Ludoshel warned her about it yet she didn't act surprised whilst mentioning that she wasn't going to beg for forgiveness.

The idea is supported given how Elizabeth immediately knew they were cursed when she got her memories back - Meliodas had no idea.
 

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Elizabeth already knew that her mother was going to punish her before it even happened, since Ludoshel warned her about it yet she didn't act surprised whilst mentioning that she wasn't going to beg for forgiveness.

The idea is supported given how Elizabeth immediately knew they were cursed when she got her memories back - Meliodas had no idea.
Why wouldn't Meliodas know? It not like only the SD cursed them. Bioith gods did. Why would meliodas assume his father wouldn't while Liz would assume her parent would curse her?
 

OtakuFreak

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Why wouldn't Meliodas know? It not like only the SD cursed them. Bioith gods did. Why would meliodas assume his father wouldn't while Liz would assume her parent would curse her?
Who knows? Maybe Elizabeth was punished before by her mother to a lesser degree and was aware of what behaviour was unacceptable. So when she saved the commandments, knew her mother would punish her.

As for Meliodas, cursing him was the first time daddy ever punished him and he probably didn't expect (neither Elizabeth) that his father would join the SD in deleting him.
 
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