Ah yes, because ark's ''potent'' and elemental advantage against demonic beings allows an individual to compensate for a power gap of 50,000.
Makes perfect sense right? How ever did the AA's get fodderized by the Indura? Or start fearing Meliodas because apparently ark's ''potentness'' can bridge a large gap in power?
I wonder how there was ever a balance of power between the Goddesses and Demons when fodder can apparently mortally harm demon elites (?)
It's obvious that Elizabeth's ark had the power behind it to be able to affect Derriere, and the only explanation you can pull to understand the situation is to determine that she unconsciously summoned her true power in a moment of distress, and this is supported by the fact that Nerobasta, who is definitely 2k+ in PL to Elizabeth without memories was unable to mortally harm Derriere.
Well ark by itself, breaks things down at a molecular level. It's a potent ability if you're not prepared for it. Although you're right that the gap was quite high, I just find it weird that she was able to use her true power without regaining her memories. I suppose that was just a rare exception
I mean their praise was very extensive. "Not many can take lady Elizabeth's ark directly and come out unscatched, I commend you for that Estarossa". It was clearly meant to do some damage. Someone doesnt necessarily have to visibly make an effort for an attack to be powerful. Escanor has summoned giant balls of sun by just holding out his palm casually.
But we did get context tho, NOT everything, but largely some to draw some conclusions.
Nakaba highlighted that this was a 2v2 battle, shown by the Gods coming together even though they are mortal enemies, and with their final attack being a combination. It's even supported further by Meliodas and Elizabeth standing side by side with each other, looking desperate, and because of this it's very likely they would've worked together in their best efforts to avoid death.
Plus the idea that Meliodas would compensate for Elizabeth is redundant when you consider that Meliodas commented that the both of them together were incapable of doing anything, so how does Meliodas shield or compensate for Elizabeth during that battle against 2 Gods?
And Meliodas in his potential 90-100k (second demon mark form) state was completely overwhelmed by the Gods and sustained heavy damage (and probably couldn't do anything to stop/reduce it) but apparently the Goddess Elizabeth was able to keep up with sustaining damage with him, even though everyone keeps arguing she's as durable as wet paper.
I'm not saying this moment means Goddess Elizabeth durability = Second Demon Mark Meliodas Level of durability
But I am saying it definitely proves she is much more durable than people give her credit for. In her prime, I'd definitely say at the minimum her durability should be mid-top tier commandment level.
I didn't mean Meliodas taking the hit FOR her. I meant her blocking the attack in different ways, sort of like how Ludoshell supposedly took Zeldris's attack. I believe at one point you argued that she could potentially use an ark bubble on herself correct? Well that's one method. She could've protected herself that way while Mel too more hits directly, then in the end, it seemed as if they took equal damage. Like I said, context is important.
Assumption? It's fact that Elizabeth sustained the same amount of damage as Meliodas against the Gods, Nakaba showed us unlike the grace situation which is just Ludoshel going ''well.. better go all the way''
This is nonsense really.
If a character has top tier magic power then they should still be considered top tier themselves because their magic is one of the best in the series.
Ah yes, because ark's ''potent'' and elemental advantage against demonic beings allows an individual to compensate for a power gap of 50,000.
Makes perfect sense right? How ever did the AA's get fodderized by the Indura? Or start fearing Meliodas because apparently ark's ''potentness'' can bridge a large gap in power?
I wonder how there was ever a balance of power between the Goddesses and Demons when fodder can apparently mortally harm demon elites (?)
It's obvious that Elizabeth's ark had the power behind it to be able to affect Derriere, and the only explanation you can pull to understand the situation is to determine that she unconsciously summoned her true power in a moment of distress, and this is supported by the fact that Nerobasta, who is definitely 2k+ in PL to Elizabeth without memories was unable to mortally harm Derriere.
All she did was move her arm to the side, it looked like she hardly put effort into the ark.
Their comment still makes no sense regardless of the narrative one can go for.
But we did get context tho, NOT everything, but largely some to draw some conclusions.
Nakaba highlighted that this was a 2v2 battle, shown by the Gods coming together even though they are mortal enemies, and with their final attack being a combination. It's even supported further by Meliodas and Elizabeth standing side by side with each other, looking desperate, and because of this it's very likely they would've worked together in their best efforts to avoid death.
Plus the idea that Meliodas would compensate for Elizabeth is redundant when you consider that Meliodas commented that the both of them together were incapable of doing anything, so how does Meliodas shield or compensate for Elizabeth during that battle against 2 Gods?
And Meliodas in his potential 90-100k (second demon mark form) state was completely overwhelmed by the Gods and sustained heavy damage (and probably couldn't do anything to stop/reduce it) but apparently the Goddess Elizabeth was able to keep up with sustaining damage with him, even though everyone keeps arguing she's as durable as wet paper.
I'm not saying this moment means Goddess Elizabeth durability = Second Demon Mark Meliodas Level of durability
But I am saying it definitely proves she is much more durable than people give her credit for. In her prime, I'd definitely say at the minimum her durability should be mid-top tier commandment level.
Because Elizabeth's backstory hasn't been revealed, neither has the full extent of her powers etc
Literally just be patient.
Elizabeth has still shown better ark usage by demonstrating that she has a higher variety of spells + Ludoshel was going to die to Indura lol
Better ark usage? Lol again with your wank, show me Elizabeth making an Ark as big as an Archangel ( Omega Ark, far bigger and stronger than regular Ark ) then you can talk.
Assumption? It's fact that Elizabeth sustained the same amount of damage as Meliodas against the Gods, Nakaba showed us unlike the grace situation which is just Ludoshel going ''well.. better go all the way''
It is assumption though. Look the reason your theory doesn't work is because of this example
Drole and Glox vs Mel
Both took a charge and fire: Same amount of damage, yet Drole got up almost instantly and Gloxinia commented that the attack almost killed him
Damage: Drole took more hits than Gloxninia, yet at the end of the day both looked exhausted to the same degree.
My point being if we didn't see the fight, one would think that they both did equal work, but they didn't. Gloxinia was clearly less durable and weaker than Drole.
Your issue is this: You're assuming that since both fought the same people they are equal, however you refuse to look at the variables which flaws this comparison. How do we know that Elizabeth in this situation isn't Gloxinia and Mel isn't Drole? My point is we don't. The variables aren't the same. Not to mention, Mel and Elizabeth are two different people with two different powerlevels and two different movesets. The only way your comparison makes sense is if Elizabeth was a carbon copy of Mel.
You still didn't answer the question though. Has there ever been a character with OP magic and UP physical abilities that has won a fair battle by themselves against someone else that is OP? You can't call it nonsense when you can't even answer the question. And if you can't offer a rebuttal, then there's no reason to call it nonsense.
Everyone in the manga said Escanor was going to die to Mel until Escanor showed off the full power of his grace. Let's not underestimate the graces till we see their full power. Otherwise I can say that one hit is enough to KO Elizabeth just because she had one bad showing.
So far, Elizabeth is the only goddess shown to apply anything like the "brainwashing" ability to any demons, period. Other goddesses were either shown doing it to trolls/humans or mentioned to have an influence on "sages" as well, if need be. It's arguable that the AAs would have it too, working on as high as Gray/Albions(I actually think Albions are predisposed as well, they weren't made an exception among the surviving troupes leaving either battlefield, that I remember), but, considering that the brainwashing was a known feature, it's odd that it was used only in relation to Elizabeth when addressing demons and in a much different way to BoB acts. Apparently it's another ability open to personalisation.
Refresh my memory where Elaine had to save Elizabeth from Holy Knights, or where Elaine had to save anyone from HKs. Elizabeth and Elaine have only ever been shown together on the field at Byzel and since "Goddess" Elizabeth awakened and she hasn't had any problem since with HKs other than that silly argument after the battle with the demons, a battle Elaine was not involved in...she's bedridden. If you were actually talking about the Marakia Assassins, I advise you to check the confrontation again, cause, while it's true that Elaine is the only one who technically fought them, she never did save Elizabeth, they poisoned Elizabeth and she proved for the first time she can tamper with her durability and defense by insta-heal.
If we're gonna excuse Elaine for being emotionally distraught against the Red, then it's only fair to do the same for Elizabeth when Derierri punched her, a bunch of demons Elizabeth herself sympathised with, among whom children, had just been slaughtered and she'd failed to protect them.
This time I didn't contradict the Ark>PoD claim, I acknowledged it while addressing the fact that no one ever mentioned that purification only ever deals abstractly with its target, and, more than ever, Hikari Are used on Indura is glaring proof it has physical application as well.
Gigantic what? Wounds amnesiac Elizabeth had been healing on demons(Mel's the primary example, even when he was dead and she still amnesiac) since forever? And you're considering this 2 months after we've been clearly told she can heal and deal with demons at the same time?! Even in her nerfed form? Seriously, guys, if you're gonna discuss this character and want to be taken seriously by her fans, make sure you take into consideration all her aspects and abilities. Also, for once, please, look attentively at this
, look at Derrieri's back and how the drill is physically contorting her body around its shape, if the area with Mons looks too unclear, the following
shows it even clearer, how the drill doesn't simply disperse/burn the particles of darkness, it's literally pushing through flesh coated in their blood and darkness and, given the past circumstances where PoD has been persistently used as a physical element of their physical build, cause demons have it slithering through and over their bodies like body fluid which often materialises in physical body extensions, either clothing/armour, or limbs, it makes sense that in this case the PoD was removed physically, but Elizabeth was healing them at the same time. Squinty's attack would've only gone against the effect of the healing and amplified the damage the physical removal of PoD managed on them. As I said, this situation is comparable with a surgery on a tumor in real life. The doctor can still kill the patient if anyone else interferes and adds cuts/burns to the already vulnerable body.
Zeldris is still implied to be a genius within the clan and along his eldest brother, but in a different way. There was the distinction in wild raw power that was made between the 2, IIRC.
Creation sounds indeed more encompassing than Ground, Ground would naturally be a sub of Creation, but she was actually implied to be so or have the potential to surpass him, whereas there was no such distinction between Mael and Escanor. So the basic naming rule would still apply till the canon contradiction. However, the name distinction between the Sun themed abilities may not be canon, after all.
That would only ever be true if she died from it. While, as @Commanderaxe just helped me prove, she was knocked out at impact with the ground. You guys just had to go and pick on the way she was drawn: so, the 2 panels with her falling from the skies and the following with her having her arms in a very different position show she was conscious till that impact, cause she tried to brace herself. Otherwise, her left forearm wouldn't be oriented with the hand to cushion her head, and she has her eyes forcibly scrunched in the previous one, showing she did show the natural reflex to incoming impact.
Plus, since everyone keeps picking comparisons between mages, it's time to consider more factors for evaluation, like which type of defense/resistance are we discussing, the magic or physical type?! Cause most of the Elizabeth fans have acknowledged for a while that she has poor physical build and the argument with the self-heal possibly supplementing is not new at all either. She's been doing that in plenty of confrontations
Elaborate.
I seem to recall that Mel, after all, admitted he'd overestimated Zel's borrowed power as well, but I don't recall where he made any comparison between either "Prime" Elizabeth and Zeldris, nor between cursed Elizabeth and him, though it's understandable that the latter form wouldn't compare, nevertheless, most of us are placing cursed Elizabeth around mid-tier TC, regular state, not Indura, and without "God".
She was just approaching him and they still seemed on the battlefront. Are you implying she was completely ignorant to who and what he was?! Besides, since I already acknowledged multiple follow ups, I reiterate: it's possible the panel with her descending from the sky and the one where he deactivated his PoD didn't happen in immediate succession, as the rest of the flashback seems a succinct jump around visual memories to match his briefing of the story.
Those are different circumstances, you're comparing the 1st ever encounter between established enemies to interactions between established friends or allies(regardless of Escanor's shifting moods)
Elizabeth is naive by her own admission. There is an actual meaning difference. Stupid would imply she doesn't know how reality stands at all, not that she refuses to accept it as unchangeable.
I don't always agree with every single thing that I press "like" on, but if I agree with 90% of someone's post i'll like it. I don't need to point out the parts I disagree with except for in my own messages.
I'm basing that on the fact that ark was meant to "counteract the properties of darkness". I think it's fair enough to say that ark considering it's a power that specifically counters darkness, doesnt have the advantage it would have over beings without darkness.
The panel with Monspeet says it has particular advantage over darkness, not that it's the only element it works on, though, we've seen Ark functioning like basic bombs or laser beams, chopping through forests, mountains, buildings etc, and we've seen that there's no such special natural resistance from a giant(Diane) to a purification spell, so, if Hikari Are can work on them(even though it was casting away corrupted human souls), and if Ark can be used to blast away elements of nature that Fairies and Giants manifest their abilities through or to kill humans like in Rou's flashback, then yes, I stand corrected, we have stuff showing Ark works just fine even on non-demons, as long as it's backed by enough power. Canonically identified power.
And where is it said Charge & Fire is a specific physical attack?! Because crumbling stone doesn't burn skin. I see you're picking on physical stats, by all means, offer a circumstance where the mages were attacked strictly physically similarly to Derrieri's attack on Elizabeth(I've seen already the examples with the AAs, but they have extra benefits from their Graces, so that makes it iffy). Escanor has so far used Solar energy in magic attacks, since it seems that the physical effect only goes into bulking him up.. And I don't doubt the fairy Kings fare better in the magic def respect, Elizabeth does as well, as I mentioned the FC Increase situation. Also, keep in mind it was Increase of the True Form of Chastiefol, not the old one.
Ludoshel used invigorate on himself, that is a basic spell and he is an Archangel, the highest grade of a Goddess lol.
He could uses any spell, you are a downplayer as always.
The chapter as it is implied he couldn't do that? Where lol, he wanted to kill them, not to save them from certain death due to their transformation.
You claimed Elizabeth used Invigorate to take away Melascula's miasma, I spelled it out that Elizabeth used Tranquilise on Melascula, Invigorate on Ban. There is no chapter where Ludoshel was shown to use Tranquilise, much less Hikari Are. If those purification skills weren't meant to be used in depowering demons, by all means the SD would've found it necessary to forcibly hand her daughter some "proper" power, if she didn't already have it, especially since she was sent out to the battlefront with the purpose of killing them, as the AAs keep expecting her to.
But Ludoshel was shown trying to take advantage of the purification Elizabeth conducted. So, the conclusion remains the same, he was either an idiot, not playing a goddess' cards right, or didn't have the power to truly help him against them.
So, squinty is the highest grade of goddess, mhm, that sorts it out, he's actually the SD in travesty
Friendly reminder @Commanderaxe, I'm sorry, but I can read English, not shit. So, you'll excuse me if I judge your posts by the rules for the former, and not the latter.
So far, Elizabeth is the only goddess shown to apply anything like the "brainwashing" ability to any demons, period. Other goddesses were either shown doing it to trolls/humans or mentioned to have an influence on "sages" as well, if need be. It's arguable that the AAs would have it too, working on as high as Gray/Albions(I actually think Albions are predisposed as well, they weren't made an exception among the surviving troupes leaving either battlefield, that I remember), but, considering that the brainwashing was a known feature, it's odd that it was used only in relation to Elizabeth when addressing demons and in a much different way to BoB acts. Apparently it's another ability open to personalisation.
Refresh my memory where Elaine had to save Elizabeth from Holy Knights, or where Elaine had to save anyone from HKs. Elizabeth and Elaine have only ever been shown together on the field at Byzel and since "Goddess" Elizabeth awakened and she hasn't had any problem since with HKs other than that silly argument after the battle with the demons, a battle Elaine was not involved in...she's bedridden. If you were actually talking about the Marakia Assassins, I advise you to check the confrontation again, cause, while it's true that Elaine is the only one who technically fought them, she never did save Elizabeth, they poisoned Elizabeth and she proved for the first time she can tamper with her durability and defense by insta-heal.
If we're gonna excuse Elaine for being emotionally distraught against the Red, then it's only fair to do the same for Elizabeth when Derierri punched her, a bunch of demons Elizabeth herself sympathised with, among whom children, had just been slaughtered and she'd failed to protect them.
This time I didn't contradict the Ark>PoD claim, I acknowledged it while addressing the fact that no one ever mentioned that purification only ever deals abstractly with its target, and, more than ever, Hikari Are used on Indura is glaring proof it has physical application as well.
Gigantic what? Wounds amnesiac Elizabeth had been healing on demons(Mel's the primary example, even when he was dead and she still amnesiac) since forever? And you're considering this 2 months after we've been clearly told she can heal and deal with demons at the same time?! Even in her nerfed form? Seriously, guys, if you're gonna discuss this character and want to be taken seriously by her fans, make sure you take into consideration all her aspects and abilities. Also, for once, please, look attentively at this
, look at Derrieri's back and how the drill is physically contorting her body around its shape, if the area with Mons looks too unclear, the following
shows it even clearer, how the drill doesn't simply disperse/burn the particles of darkness, it's literally pushing through flesh coated in their blood and darkness and, given the past circumstances where PoD has been persistently used as a physical element of their physical build, cause demons have it slithering through and over their bodies like body fluid which often materialises in physical body extensions, either clothing/armour, or limbs, it makes sense that in this case the PoD was removed physically, but Elizabeth was healing them at the same time. Squinty's attack would've only gone against the effect of the healing and amplified the damage the physical removal of PoD managed on them. As I said, this situation is comparable with a surgery on a tumor in real life. The doctor can still kill the patient if anyone else interferes and adds cuts/burns to the already vulnerable body.
Zeldris is still implied to be a genius within the clan and along his eldest brother, but in a different way. There was the distinction in wild raw power that was made between the 2, IIRC.
Creation sounds indeed more encompassing than Ground, Ground would naturally be a sub of Creation, but she was actually implied to be so or have the potential to surpass him, whereas there was no such distinction between Mael and Escanor. So the basic naming rule would still apply till the canon contradiction. However, the name distinction between the Sun themed abilities may not be canon, after all.
That would only ever be true if she died from it. While, as @Commanderaxe just helped me prove, she was knocked out at impact with the ground. You guys just had to go and pick on the way she was drawn: so, the 2 panels with her falling from the skies and the following with her having her arms in a very different position show she was conscious till that impact, cause she tried to brace herself. Otherwise, her left forearm wouldn't be oriented with the hand to cushion her head, and she has her eyes forcibly scrunched in the previous one, showing she did show the natural reflex to incoming impact.
Plus, since everyone keeps picking comparisons between mages, it's time to consider more factors for evaluation, like which type of defense/resistance are we discussing, the magic or physical type?! Cause most of the Elizabeth fans have acknowledged for a while that she has poor physical build and the argument with the self-heal possibly supplementing is not new at all either. She's been doing that in plenty of confrontations
Elaborate.
I seem to recall that Mel, after all, admitted he'd overestimated Zel's borrowed power as well, but I don't recall where he made any comparison between either "Prime" Elizabeth and Zeldris, nor between cursed Elizabeth and him, though it's understandable that the latter form wouldn't compare, nevertheless, most of us are placing cursed Elizabeth around mid-tier TC, regular state, not Indura, and without "God".
She was just approaching him and they still seemed on the battlefront. Are you implying she was completely ignorant to who and what he was?! Besides, since I already acknowledged multiple follow ups, I reiterate: it's possible the panel with her descending from the sky and the one where he deactivated his PoD didn't happen in immediate succession, as the rest of the flashback seems a succinct jump around visual memories to match his briefing of the story.
Those are different circumstances, you're comparing the 1st ever encounter between established enemies to interactions between established friends or allies(regardless of Escanor's shifting moods)
Elizabeth is naive by her own admission. There is an actual meaning difference. Stupid would imply she doesn't know how reality stands at all, not that she refuses to accept it as unchangeable.
No, I mean Chandler VS the Sins. And how she was also busy doing other things while surviving him. Don't forget or ignore the context!
Well, that was the point, if you did disagree, you'd do the latter bit. Without exception.
The panel with Monspeet says it has particular advantage over darkness, not that it's the only element it works on, though, we've seen Ark functioning like basic bombs or laser beams, chopping through forests, mountains, buildings etc, and we've seen that there's no such special natural resistance from a giant(Diane) to a purification spell, so, if Hikari Are can work on them(even though it was casting away corrupted human souls), and if Ark can be used to blast away elements of nature that Fairies and Giants manifest their abilities through or to kill humans like in Rou's flashback, then yes, I stand corrected, we have stuff showing Ark works just fine even on non-demons, as long as it's backed by enough power. Canonically identified power.
And where is it said Charge & Fire is a specific physical attack?! Because crumbling stone doesn't burn skin. I see you're picking on physical stats, by all means, offer a circumstance where the mages were attacked strictly physically similarly to Derrieri's attack on Elizabeth(I've seen already the examples with the AAs, but they have extra benefits from their Graces, so that makes it iffy). Escanor has so far used Solar energy in magic attacks, since it seems that the physical effect only goes into bulking him up.. And I don't doubt the fairy Kings fare better in the magic def respect, Elizabeth does as well, as I mentioned the FC Increase situation. Also, keep in mind it was Increase of the True Form of Chastiefol, not the old one.
You claimed Elizabeth used Invigorate to take away Melascula's miasma, I spelled it out that Elizabeth used Tranquilise on Melascula, Invigorate on Ban. There is no chapter where Ludoshel was shown to use Tranquilise, much less Hikari Are. If those purification skills weren't meant to be used in depowering demons, by all means the SD would've found it necessary to forcibly hand her daughter some "proper" power, if she didn't already have it, especially since she was sent out to the battlefront with the purpose of killing them, as the AAs keep expecting her to.
But Ludoshel was shown trying to take advantage of the purification Elizabeth conducted. So, the conclusion remains the same, he was either an idiot, not playing a goddess' cards right, or didn't have the power to truly help him against them.
So, squinty is the highest grade of goddess, mhm, that sorts it out, he's actually the SD in travesty
Friendly reminder @Commanderaxe, I'm sorry, but I can read English, not shit. So, you'll excuse me if I judge your posts by the rules for the former, and not the latter.
I claimed that Ludoshel know and can use any purification skills, the Archangels know all the Goddess Clan techniques, they are the highest Goddess in the entire Goddess army when it comes to grade, similar to the 10 commandments from the Demon Clan.
Ludoshel already showed that he can use Invigorate, Sariel and Tarmiel showed some purification skills by assisting Elizabeth.
It seems that you can't comprehend something that is so easy to understand lol.
Which chapter? I only remember them lending her raw Ark, she was the one who used an actual skill.
And no, they were never shown to be able to use all the skills she does, so you're purely speculating. Your phrasing was still iffy about the ranking in the GC and there's no irrefutable proof, so far, that Elizabeth or another goddess, doesn't stand between them and the SD rank-wise.
I claimed that Ludoshel know and can use any purification skills, the Archangels know all the Goddess Clan techniques, they are the highest Goddess in the entire Goddess army when it comes to grade, similar to the 10 commandments from the Demon Clan.
Well with this logic then Elizabeth can use every Goddess technique and even more than Ludoshel since she's the Supreme Goddesses daughter and would have access to royal skills?
But we all know you would disagree with this notion for no apparent reason
Ludoshel already showed that he can use Invigorate, Sariel and Tarmiel showed some purification skills by assisting Elizabeth.
It seems that you can't comprehend something that is so easy to understand lol.
It was raw ark they supplemented into Elizabeth's technique, acting as a power boost.
They haven't established any moment so far in the story of being able to use purification techniques. Plus, you keep saying it's ''beneath'' them to do it and leave demons alive or something so why would they use purification techniques?
It was raw ark, Sobreno is trying to say that the AA can use ''Let There Be Light'' I believe
They gave Elizabeth a power boost in the form of their light (which they supplemented into the technique), but never used any purification technique themselves
I think they can use purification, but definitely not everything in Elizabeth's arsenal(they have their Graces for fancy abilities) and unlikely skills with different/superior quality in effect to hers. I was just telling MrSchmitty7 it's odd that Elizabeth's "brainwashing" doesn't seem to work like Breath of Bless/Cheat Light or whatever's called.
Well with this logic then Elizabeth can use every Goddess technique and even more than Ludoshel since she's the Supreme Goddesses daughter and would have access to royal skills?
But we all know you would disagree with this notion for no apparent reason
It was raw ark they supplemented into Elizabeth's technique, acting as a power boost.
They haven't established any moment so far in the story of being able to use purification techniques. Plus, you keep saying it's ''beneath'' them to do it and leave demons alive or something so why would they use purification techniques?
It was raw ark, Sobreno is trying to say that the AA can use ''Let There Be Light'' I believe
They gave Elizabeth a power boost in the form of their light (which they supplemented into the technique), but never used any purification technique themselves
Nope, she isn't a fighter and not even an Archangel, your logic is called wanking. She is nothing but a princess, call me when she is part of the Supreme Deity army like the demons brothers are in the army of the Demon King.
The Demon King granted a commandment to each of his sons, why the Supreme Deity didn't do that for that useless princess lmao? Try again.
We go by feat and showing and so far, her Ark is pathetic compared to an Omega Ark from an Archangel.
Nope, it was a purification ark like her, your " raw " ark makes no sense and we go by showing.
They are Archangels, no Goddess should be higher than them in rank.
So now they're all the SD in disguise?! Or are they princesses, instead of Ellie?! Damn, now I want to see a crazy cover with the AAs in drag, like that old one with Mel, King and Ban
I think they can use purification, but definitely not everything in Elizabeth's arsenal(they have their Graces for fancy abilities) and unlikely skills with different/superior quality in effect to hers. I was just telling MrSchmitty7 it's odd that Elizabeth's "brainwashing" doesn't seem to work like Breath of Bless/Cheat Light or whatever's called.
Oh yeah they could probably and most definitely use purification, since the Goddesses did teach the druids ''purge'', and I imagine it could've been the AA's who did that themselves
But from manga events, they haven't shown the ability to, and even if they do, I don't expect their level of purification to be as sufficient as Elizabeth's since that seems to be her area of speciality
Nope, she isn't a fighter and not even an Archangel, your logic is called wanking. She is nothing by a princess, call me when she is part of the Supreme Deity army like the demons brothers are in the army of the Demon King.
Last time I checked, not being a ''fighter'' doesn't reduce your power lol
Why does it matter that she is an AA?
And why would you put a pacifist in an army? You say she isn't a fighter AND THEN expect her to be in a situation which demands for her to fight. Can you stop contradicting your own argument please?
Oh yeah they could probably and most definitely use purification, since the Goddesses did teach the druids ''purge'', and I imagine it could've been the AA's who did that themselves
But from manga events, they haven't shown the ability to, and even if they do, I don't expect their level of purification to be as sufficient as Elizabeth's since that seems to be her area of speciality
Last time I checked, not being a ''fighter'' doesn't reduce your power lol
Why does it matter that she is an AA?
And why would you put a pacifist in an army? You say she isn't a fighter AND THEN expect her to be in a situation which demands for her to fight. Can you stop contradicting your own argument please?
ALL will be revealed when Nakaba actually reveals Elizabeth's full powers and backstory instead of wanking off another Meliodas mini-arc.
And did this Omega ark hurt a passive 142k demon?
No. So by feats Elizabeth's ark is still superior to any of the AA because she was able to injure a demon they ''feared'' .
If you disagree, show me a panel or situation where their ark did better than her's. No opinion or nonsense discussion. Pictures please or evidence.
Please explain to me what is happening in the picture below. And be specific:
Who's above the AA's?
Oh that's right the royal family and you know I oddly remember Elizabeth being the princess of the Goddesses and her mother being the Queen, yes?
Not being a fighter means that you don't replicate what a true fighter can in battle lol, that is common sense.
She is a pacifist because she hates to fight, hence why you should stop wanking her as if she was truly a fighter lol.
It is already 170+ chapter and still zero hint about her so called PL lol, you see how your claim is stupid?
Hurt? Lmao, far from it, he let it happen, you are wanking something that is common from female of any shonen manga, from DB, YuYu Hakusho to even Fairy Tail.
The infamous slap scene from a female character in shonen, they are always 100% effective.
You are the only one who takes that poor scene seriously lmao ( as expected from a fanboy ), later she almost died from Chandler's cheek and she was truly hurt ( blood ). Take note, that is what I call " damages " when there is blood and when you need to be saved. ( Diane )
Panels are there, Omega Ark is the strongest ark, it is visually more powerful and a higher version of the " usual " ark. Are you stupid or that desperate? Can't you read simple English? Omega ark vs normal ark. lol
Omega Ark is the same ark but on a far greater scale, turn on your brain please, I know that it is hard to accept the truth.
Yeah, it is as I said, they used their version of purification ark to help her.
Only the Supreme Deity is above the 4 Archangels, that was recognized by the Demon Clan itself. Your damsel in distress is a nobody to them, they don't even know who she was lol.
So now they're all the SD in disguise?! Or are they princesses, instead of Ellie?! Damn, now I want to see a crazy cover with the AAs in drag, like that old one with Mel, King and Ban
Explain to me why the Demon Clan doesn't know her and they know very well the 4 Archangels to the point of fearing them.
Their rank is higher, she has zero authority upon any Goddesses, show me your little princess in a position of authority where she gave a single order.
Not being a fighter means that you don't replicate what a true fighter can in battle lol, that is common sense.
She is a pacifist because she hates to fight, hence why you should stop wanking her as if she was truly a fighter lol.
It is already 170+ chapter and still zero hint about her so called PL lol, you see how your claim is stupid?
Hurt? Lmao, far from it, he let it happen, you are wanking something that is common from female of any shonen manga, from DB, YuYu Hakusho to even Fairy Tail.
The infamous slap scene from a female character in shonen, they are always 100% effective.
You are the only one who takes that poor scene seriously lmao ( as expected from a fanboy ), later she almost died from Chandler's cheek and she was truly hurt ( blood ). Take note, that is what I call " damages " when there is blood and when you need to be saved. ( Diane )
Panels are there, Omega Ark is the strongest ark, it is visually more powerful and a higher version of the " usual " ark. Are you stupid or that desperate? Can't you read simple English? Omega ark vs normal ark. lol
Omega Ark is the same ark but on a far greater scale, turn on your brain please, I know that it is hard to accept the truth.
Yeah, it is as I said, they used their version of purification ark to help her.
Only the Supreme Deity is above the 4 Archangels, that was recognized by the Demon Clan itself. Your damsel in distress is a nobody to them, they don't even know who she was lol.
Try again.
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Explain to me why the Demon Clan doesn't know her and they know very well the 4 Archangels to the point of fearing them.
Their rank is higher, she has zero authority upon any Goddesses, show me your little princess in a position of authority where she gave a single order.
The Demon Clan does know her, it was only Estarossa who claimed that Mel betrayed them for some "mysterious" reason, she's infamous to the others, go properly read the manga!!!
Come again?! She is their princess, she ordered squinty to stand back in 208(only he didn't want to obey in his idiocy) and the dynamic duo is still Elizabeth-sama this, Elizabeth-sama that; she gave multiple orders in the confrontation with Estarossa, everyone but squinty's brainwashed lap-dogs are obeying her, as the AAs didn't try to hurt Derrieri once she was gone.
You are the only one who takes that poor scene seriously lmao ( as expected from a fanboy ), later she almost died from Chandler's cheek and she was truly hurt ( blood ). Take note, that is what I call " damages " when there is blood and when you need to be saved. ( Diane )
Panels are there, Omega Ark is the strongest ark, it is visually more power and a higher version of the " usual " ark. Are you stupid or that desperate? You can't read simple English? Omega ark vs normal ark. lol
Omega Ark is the same ark but on a far greater scale, turn on your brain please, I know that it is hard to accept the truth.
Only the Supreme Deity is above the 4 Archangels, that was recognized by the Demon Clan itself. Your shitty princess is a nobody to them, they don't even know who she was lol.
But they do know her.
Zeldris, Estarossa and Meliodas obviously know her.
Monspiet and Derriere recognised her instantly based on appearance alone, even without wings.
And why would you fear a pacifist? Elizabeth's name is clearly known. among the Demon Clan.
Their rank is higher, she has zero authority upon any Goddesses, show me your little princess in a position of authority where she gave a single order.
The Demon Clan does know her, it was only Estarossa who claimed that Mel betrayed them for some "mysterious" reason, she's infamous to the others, go properly read the manga!!!
Come again?! She is their princess, she ordered squinty to stand back in 208(only he didn't want to obey in his idiocy) and the dynamic duo is still Elizabeth-sama this, Elizabeth-sama that; she gave multiple orders in the confrontation with Estarossa, everyone but squinty's brainwashed lap-dogs are obeying her, as the AAs didn't try to hurt Derrieri once she was gone.
Nope, she is a nobody compared to the 4 Archangels prior to her own self-presentation.
It is you who need to re-read the manga properly lol.
Indeed, she is their princess but she doesn't have the highest authority, a lot of Goddesses can insult her or even ignores her.
Ludoshel was the one who gave order for the stigma, it is him who send them to intercept one of the 10 commandments and she stands there like an idiot when he said that he will exterminate the Demons, so much for her authority.
So far, Elizabeth is the only goddess shown to apply anything like the "brainwashing" ability to any demons, period. Other goddesses were either shown doing it to trolls/humans or mentioned to have an influence on "sages" as well, if need be. It's arguable that the AAs would have it too, working on as high as Gray/Albions(I actually think Albions are predisposed as well, they weren't made an exception among the surviving troupes leaving either battlefield, that I remember), but, considering that the brainwashing was a known feature, it's odd that it was used only in relation to Elizabeth when addressing demons and in a much different way to BoB acts. Apparently it's another ability open to personalisation.
Refresh my memory where Elaine had to save Elizabeth from Holy Knights, or where Elaine had to save anyone from HKs. Elizabeth and Elaine have only ever been shown together on the field at Byzel and since "Goddess" Elizabeth awakened and she hasn't had any problem since with HKs other than that silly argument after the battle with the demons, a battle Elaine was not involved in...she's bedridden. If you were actually talking about the Marakia Assassins, I advise you to check the confrontation again, cause, while it's true that Elaine is the only one who technically fought them, she never did save Elizabeth, they poisoned Elizabeth and she proved for the first time she can tamper with her durability and defense by insta-heal.
If we're gonna excuse Elaine for being emotionally distraught against the Red, then it's only fair to do the same for Elizabeth when Derierri punched her, a bunch of demons Elizabeth herself sympathised with, among whom children, had just been slaughtered and she'd failed to protect them.
But the manga never says that it's just unique to Elizabeth, it says that it's an ability of the goddess clan. Just because Elizabeth used it doesn't mean she's the only one that can use it. And I did give an excuse for Elizabeth being so easily Ko'ed, but the problem is both Sariel and Ludoshel ended up screwing around as well and neither got knocked out as compared to her who took a basic punch.
This time I didn't contradict the Ark>PoD claim, I acknowledged it while addressing the fact that no one ever mentioned that purification only ever deals abstractly with its target, and, more than ever, Hikari Are used on Indura is glaring proof it has physical application as well.
Gigantic what? Wounds amnesiac Elizabeth had been healing on demons(Mel's the primary example, even when he was dead and she still amnesiac) since forever? And you're considering this 2 months after we've been clearly told she can heal and deal with demons at the same time?! Even in her nerfed form? Seriously, guys, if you're gonna discuss this character and want to be taken seriously by her fans, make sure you take into consideration all her aspects and abilities. Also, for once, please, look attentively at this
Elizabeth never healed them though. There are no light particles around them and she was exhausted and had to be literally supported and held up by Meliodas, she was about to pass out. Plus just because it moved them doesn't mean it's physical. Gowther's magic does the same thing and it is confirmed to be an attack on the spirit. In order to say an attack is physical, it's physical properties have to line up. It doesn't add up for something to pierce through someone and not leave a gaping wound. Plus the size of the hole would've killed Monspeet and Deri's last hearts. Goddesses cannot heal torn hearts.
Creation sounds indeed more encompassing than Ground, Ground would naturally be a sub of Creation, but she was actually implied to be so or have the potential to surpass him, whereas there was no such distinction between Mael and Escanor. So the basic naming rule would still apply till the canon contradiction. However, the name distinction between the Sun themed abilities may not be canon, after all.
Those are different circumstances, you're comparing the 1st ever encounter between established enemies to interactions between established friends or allies(regardless of Escanor's shifting moods)
It still doesn't make a difference because even after they got to know Escanor, they still had him imprisoned during the daytime. No body knew what type of person Escanor was at first.
She was just approaching him and they still seemed on the battlefront. Are you implying she was completely ignorant to who and what he was?! Besides, since I already acknowledged multiple follow ups, I reiterate: it's possible the panel with her descending from the sky and the one where he deactivated his PoD didn't happen in immediate succession, as the rest of the flashback seems a succinct jump around visual memories to match his briefing of the story.
Absolutely, because keep in mind this is the same girl that tried to fight 4 commandments by herself and that let her guard down during a confrontation. She's naive and she probably came to talk to Mel. Unless you're going to suggest that she came prepared to not only take on Assault Mel by herself, but also Zeldris. As a matter of fact, this whole holy war was started because of Elizabeth's feelings. She has no plan as to how to break the curse. She's even admitted this by herself by noting that even if she dies, she'll come back. She's not afraid of dying at the very least I'll give her that.
Elaborate.
I seem to recall that Mel, after all, admitted he'd overestimated Zel's borrowed power as well, but I don't recall where he made any comparison between either "Prime" Elizabeth and Zeldris, nor between cursed Elizabeth and him, though it's understandable that the latter form wouldn't compare, nevertheless, most of us are placing cursed Elizabeth around mid-tier TC, regular state, not Indura, and without "God".
When Mel talked about the power to break a commandment, he thought that Zeldris had enough magic power at first, but then realized he was later wrong. However, when it came to himself and Elizabeth he flat out denied that they would have enough and didn't even bring it up. It's pretty clear whose magic is stronger by the way that Mel addressed the situation. One was taken under consideration and the other was just thrown out.
Also, you don't have to die from a hit in order not to be able to tank it. Mel didn't die from Holy Sword, yet no one would say that he tanked it. Plus drawing a manga with missing details in some panels isn't a mistake, it's an art style as I've said 10 times. Both eastern and western writers do it. I mean look at the picture you posted of Mel and the 3AA and notice how the wings, faces, and other details are drawn in a manner that isn't precise. Writers do this quite often because thats just how comics/manga are written.
Chandler, Cusack, Mel, and Zeldris are ranked higher than Estarossa even though he's royalty. Chandler's rank is even higher than the Commandments, who are supposedly the highest order of demon before Chandler and Cusack were introduced.
Also reread the fighting festival arc that was hosted by Drole and Glox. Those knights were about to get the jump on Elizabeth before Eliane pushed them away. (Not you Otaku, I meant to put this last part above)
So that means Meliodas must not be a true fighter anymore for a certain point in time right since Elizabeth changed him?
Don't change the subject.
Show me where the AA's supposedly have a greater ark feat. Something which triumphs Elizabeth hurting a 142k demon.
Thanks for contradicting your own statement.
Omega ark is just ark but on a larger scale, nothing shows it being superior in raw power to regular ark.
''Omega ark'' is just a larger version lol.
Where? Where in the picture are they doing that, show me.
And that's why Monspiet, or Derriere recognised the name ''Elizabeth'' right?
But they do know her.
Zeldris, Estarossa and Meliodas obviously know her.
Monspiet and Derriere recognised her instantly based on appearance alone, even without wings.
And why would you fear a pacifist? Elizabeth's name is clearly known. among the Demon Clan.
No it's not lol.
So the Supreme Goddess who is royalty, is above the rank of AA, but Elizabeth who is royal too isn't?
And she gave an order to Ludoshel but he disobeyed her, so he committed treason.
Plus, she has authority because Sariel + Tarmiel, who are AA listen and bend to her will.
Meliodas keep fighting left and right and actually beat his opponent since chapter 1. Show me Elizabeth fighting a beating a single opponent on one vs one where the opponent has grave injuries or he is near death.
You are the one who changes the subject and wanking something non-existent, which feat? That is not a feat at all, it didn't nothing to him lol.
Show me Elizabeth actually using an Omega Ark.
Seriously how dumb are you? It is like comparing a normal rasengan to a Oodama giant rasengan, if they clashes, which rasengan will win? Even a Kid can see that lol.
If it is on a larger scale, it makes more damage than the small one, that is common sense.
In the picture that you posted yourself lol.
Monspiet heard it somewhere and nope, Derrierie never recognized her, she meets her for the first time lol, you don't even know the manga properly.
The brothers know her obviously, two loves her and one always followed Meliodas, the rest of the Demons? Nope, even the 10 commandments never heard her name ( with the exception of Monspiet but he can't recall it properly ).
The point is that she isn't a famous person unlike the 4 Archangels for the entire Demon Clan, this is a fact.
The Supreme Deity isn't a royalty lmao, she is literally a God and she gave her Godly power to her 4 Archangels, not to her useless girl.
Lol what? Ludoshel has no right to listen to her, even her Goddesses friends abandoned her.
Only Sariel and Tarmiel listen to her but Ludoshel is still the leader of the entire stigma.
But the manga never says that it's just unique to Elizabeth, it says that it's an ability of the goddess clan. Just because Elizabeth used it doesn't mean she's the only one that can use it. And I did give an excuse for Elizabeth being so easily Ko'ed, but the problem is both Sariel and Ludoshel ended up screwing around as well and neither got knocked out as compared to her who took a basic punch.
Elizabeth never healed them though. There are no light particles around them and she was exhausted and had to be literally supported and held up by Meliodas, she was about to pass out. Plus just because it moved them doesn't mean it's physical. Gowther's magic does the same thing and it is confirmed to be an attack on the spirit. In order to say an attack is physical, it's physical properties have to line up. It doesn't add up for something to pierce through someone and not leave a gaping wound. Plus the size of the hole would've killed Monspeet and Deri's last hearts. Goddesses cannot heal torn hearts.
Diane was never stated to be on par with Drole. Only King was given that distinction in the manga.
It still doesn't make a difference because even after they got to know Escanor, they still had him imprisoned during the daytime. No body knew what type of person Escanor was at first.
Absolutely, because keep in mind this is the same girl that tried to fight 4 commandments by herself and that let her guard down during a confrontation. She's naive and she probably came to talk to Mel. Unless you're going to suggest that she came prepared to not only take on Assault Mel by herself, but also Zeldris. As a matter of fact, this whole holy war was started because of Elizabeth's feelings. She has no plan as to how to break the curse. She's even admitted this by herself by noting that even if she dies, she'll come back. She's not afraid of dying at the very least I'll give her that.
When Mel talked about the power to break a commandment, he thought that Zeldris had enough magic power at first, but then realized he was later wrong. However, when it came to himself and Elizabeth he flat out denied that they would have enough and didn't even bring it up. It's pretty clear whose magic is stronger by the way that Mel addressed the situation. One was taken under consideration and the other was just thrown out.
Also, you don't have to die from a hit in order not to be able to tank it. Mel didn't die from Holy Sword, yet no one would say that he tanked it. Plus drawing a manga with missing details in some panels isn't a mistake, it's an art style as I've said 10 times. Both eastern and western writers do it. I mean look at the picture you posted of Mel and the 3AA and notice how the wings, faces, and other details are drawn in a manner that isn't precise. Writers do this quite often because thats just how comics/manga are written.
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Chandler, Cusack, Mel, and Zeldris are ranked higher than Estarossa even though he's royalty. Chandler's rank is even higher than the Commandments, who are supposedly the highest order of demon before Chandler and Cusack were introduced.
Also reread the fighting festival arc that was hosted by Drole and Glox. Those knights were about to get the jump on Elizabeth before Eliane pushed them away. (Not you Otaku, I meant to put this last part above)
He is the highest ranked of all demons, it is officially stated and repeated.
Edit: Although, to be honest, Zeldoris was given the title of the " representant of the Demon King ".
I completely forget that lol. So he should have higher authority than them due to that title which is obvious, you are the representant of the big boss, therefore, your order is like his order.
So, he has that + his royalty title as a royal prince. That makes him and Meliodas being above Chandler in grade and authority.
There were no light particles around the knights of Stigma when they were being healed, nor around Howzer, King and Diane(and they would know when it happens to them, they'd been healed by her before and they weren't under BoB effect) even though it was stated she'd been healing them throughout the battle. There were also no particles of light around Mel or any other visible representation for whatever she was using to try and hold his "evolution" at bay, yet she was doing it.
I didn't say she moved them, though that also happened, I specifically showed you how the drills were denting(deforming) their bodies as they pushed through. Show me one of Gowther's "zaps" physically deforming the area of one's body it gets through and it going out the other way with any sort of matter attached the target has on the inside.
We have no idea about the actual first encounter between Escanor and the other Sins(besides M & M) and we don't know which attitude they encountered first, but we do know they were established from the get go as co-workers/allies. You can't compare with the Elizabeth & TC encounter from the AHW either, as she must've known some stuff about them already, remember that Mel was dishing out info on them at least to her, but still acknowledged them as enemies she had to try and appease.
I don't believe Elizabeth went to Mel(who was infamous, even the AAs implied it with their attitude) ignorant of how dangerous he was. And we don't know yet if all the panels go together in rapid succession, we can't say that just because Mel was wearing the same outfit in most of them.
The other was ignored, not thrown out, cause, as I said, she was already cursed and limited in her power. And you simply can't base your assumption on another assumption already proven invalid. Meliodas already acknowledged his reasoning about Zel's power was incorrect, therefore, not even a presumed by fans comparison fits in there. It would already be proven a fallacy, with Mel as an untrustworthy judge.
(?)
and you know I oddly remember Elizabeth being the princess of the Goddesses and her mother being the Queen, yes? 