Pick up a history book. Do you honestly believe for a second that any royal can command an army? Commanding an army takes intelligence, fortitude, and courage, and a basic understanding of the arts of war. Which is why not your average royal can command. They chose to follow Elizabeth because they had no orders. Ludoshel doesn't command them because Nakaba confirmed that all the AA are equal. If they want to follow or ignore Elizabeth they have every right since they are the only confirmed generals. Following Elizabeth doesn't mean anything. In fact some generals took advice from lesser soldiers in history, but that doesn't make the lesser soldiers generals.
Forgiving Elizabeth is irrelevant. It just means she won't be forgiven by the Supreme Deity. It doesn't make her immune.
An army isn't a car. Being born a royal doesn't give you the keys. Which is why even when Mel was born, Chandler was ranked higher than him.
Yes, any royal can control an army in this series because the entire royal family is the head of the clan. This isn't the real world where becoming a commander requires qualifications or specific characteristics, it all comes down to power and status.
And in the real world, and your reference to picking up a ''history book'', there are governments and other structures that interfere with the concept of royalty taking command. For example, the British royal family largely do not have any influence over the British military because all of that power belongs to the government.
But in this manga, all of the power is given to the head of the royal family, the King or Queen, and because of that the princes and princesses of each clan have a higher ranking than any of the military.
The ultimate order or objective for the Goddess Clan in the war was to literally destroy the demons and achieve victory. They had their objectives, yet they listened to Elizabeth. Just think:
-You're in a war, and the ultimate objective of such a war is to defeat the enemy and assert victory for your clan.
-The princess of the clan shows up and speaks about the properties of pacifism and peace, which are concepts completely naive and useless/crippling in a war. So do you listen to her when the opportunity to destroy the enemy is right in front of you? Absolutely not, because what she wants to happen is completely ridiculous in times of war and has no benefit for your side of the fight, YET you have to listen and obey because she is of a superior ranking to you. This describes why Sariel/Tarmiel ended up listening to her because they understood that they had to follow her.
If Elizabeth had no authority, then there is no sensible explanation as to why they decided to follow her will, even if they respected her, because any normal individual would certainly side with the argument that saving the enemy is completely ridiculous and non-beneificial.
It's even demonstrated clearly in Elizabeth's actions, telling Ludoshel to ''you will stand down'', or later saying that she shouldn't interfere. And even then, Ludoshel even directly says in front of Sariel and Tarmiel that the Supreme Goddess would not be happy with what Elizabeth is doing, BUT because she is of a higher ranking than them, and the SG never gave a direct order for the situation, they have to listen.
No that is not true. In history and in this literature the royal family is not the top of the head in terms of military. A regular prince has no command over those who are higher ranked in military status. Which is why Estarossa wasn't given the rank of highest ranking demons like Mel, Zel, Chandler, and Cusack.
The royal family is at the top of the clan, and because of that Estarossa could command the military IF his brothers or father, of higher rank didn't already have an influence.
And as mentioned by @Commanderaxe there is a reason why Ludoshel didn't get in trouble, and that reason is because he didn't do anything wrong by ignoring Elizabeth. What was the Supreme Deity supposed to do? Punish Ludoshel for not following a non existent command from a powerless position? Elizabeth was instead punished because she went against the plan. Sariel and Tarmiel weren't punished because as stated earlier, they didn't break any assignments given to them because the whole thing was a stigma plan.
Ludoshel didn't get in trouble because the actions he committed (e.g failing to kill Indura) were down to Elizabeth's influence and orders, a superior ranking individual, and therefore the responsibility was with her, hence why she got punished and not him.
Plus, I'm sure the Supreme Goddess would turn a blind eye to the miss deeds of Ludoshel because she knows he isn't a ''traitor'' and is dedicated to the clan, unlike Elizabeth who's happy to commit herself to a taboo relationship - so it's only natural the Supreme Goddess is extremely strict with her own daughter, but is more care free with her other subjects.
Yes, any royal can control an army in this series because the entire royal family is the head of the clan. This isn't the real world where becoming a commander requires qualifications or specific characteristics, it all comes down to power and status.
And in the real world, and your reference to picking up a ''history book'', there are governments and other structures that interfere with the concept of royalty taking command. For example, the British royal family largely do not have any influence over the British military because all of that power belongs to the government.
No any royal cannot command the military in this manga. Once again Estarossa isn't even given the proper rank to do so in spite of the fact that he is royalty. He wasn't even given servants as befitting of a royals station. Even Margaret, the first born of King Bartra, has no command over the military. That belongs to the Grand Holy Knights.
Yes, Britains modern government controls the military, but this manga is based off of Britain from centuries ago, when the monarchy had absolute power.
-You're in a war, and the ultimate objective of such a war is to defeat the enemy and assert victory for your clan.
-The princess of the clan shows up and speaks about the properties of pacifism and peace, which are concepts completely naive and useless/crippling in a war. So do you listen to her when the opportunity to destroy the enemy is right in front of you? Absolutely not, because what she wants to happen is completely ridiculous in times of war and has no benefit for your side of the fight, YET you have to listen and obey because she is of a superior ranking to you. This describes why Sariel/Tarmiel ended up listening to her because they understood that they had to follow her.
No, the war wasn't about total destruction of one group. In the past there were peace agreements as stated by Nerobasta. So for Tarmiel and Sariel to seek peace isn't breaking any mold or order when peace was an option even before.
If Elizabeth had no authority, then there is no sensible explanation as to why they decided to follow her will, even if they respected her, because any normal individual would certainly side with the argument that saving the enemy is completely ridiculous and non-beneificial.
If Elizabeth had authority then Sariel and Tarmiel wouldn't have had to have thought it over and Elizabeth wouldn't have had to have screamed for help. Again, peace was an option in the past and Sariel and Tarmiel could take that option.
It's even demonstrated clearly in Elizabeth's actions, telling Ludoshel to ''you will stand down'', or later saying that she shouldn't interfere. And even then, Ludoshel even directly says in front of Sariel and Tarmiel that the Supreme Goddess would not be happy with what Elizabeth is doing, BUT because she is of a higher ranking than them, and the SG never gave a direct order for the situation, they have to listen.
Supreme Deity wasn't happy because Elizabeth disobeyed the generals. Which is why she was executed for treason, not Ludoshel or Sariel and Tarmiel who sided with her. I mean think about it- Sariel and Tarmiel help Elizabeth out, but they aren't punished once.
The royal family is at the top of the clan, and because of that Estarossa could command the military IF his brothers or father, of higher rank didn't already have an influence.
No he can't. Not until you have proof of his rank. Also look at this, Zeldris is the proxy of the demon clan even though Estarossa is the older brother. This right here is proof that you must be given the rank and aren't born with it as a birthright. Because princes have no claim of the military affairs.
Ludoshel didn't get in trouble because the actions he committed (e.g failing to kill Indura) were down to Elizabeth's influence and orders, a superior ranking individual, and therefore the responsibility was with her, hence why she got punished and not him.
Plus, I'm sure the Supreme Goddess would turn a blind eye to the miss deeds of Ludoshel because she knows he isn't a ''traitor'' and is dedicated to the clan, unlike Elizabeth who's happy to commit herself to a taboo relationship - so it's only natural the Supreme Goddess is extremely strict with her own daughter, but is more care free with her other subjects.
No, it doesn't work like that. Even if the plan goes wrong if you disobey your superiors without having reason to, then you will be punished. Elizabeth had no excuse for saving Monspeet and Derieri after they were purified.
Make up your mind. First you say Ludoshel is loyal, but then you literally put charges of treason on him. Disobeying an order from a higher rank is treason-insubordination
Yes, any royal can control an army in this series because the entire royal family is the head of the clan. This isn't the real world where becoming a commander requires qualifications or specific characteristics, it all comes down to power and status.
And in the real world, and your reference to picking up a ''history book'', there are governments and other structures that interfere with the concept of royalty taking command. For example, the British royal family largely do not have any influence over the British military because all of that power belongs to the government.
But in this manga, all of the power is given to the head of the royal family, the King or Queen, and because of that the princes and princesses of each clan have a higher ranking than any of the military.
The ultimate order or objective for the Goddess Clan in the war was to literally destroy the demons and achieve victory. They had their objectives, yet they listened to Elizabeth. Just think:
-You're in a war, and the ultimate objective of such a war is to defeat the enemy and assert victory for your clan.
-The princess of the clan shows up and speaks about the properties of pacifism and peace, which are concepts completely naive and useless/crippling in a war. So do you listen to her when the opportunity to destroy the enemy is right in front of you? Absolutely not, because what she wants to happen is completely ridiculous in times of war and has no benefit for your side of the fight, YET you have to listen and obey because she is of a superior ranking to you. This describes why Sariel/Tarmiel ended up listening to her because they understood that they had to follow her.
If Elizabeth had no authority, then there is no sensible explanation as to why they decided to follow her will, even if they respected her, because any normal individual would certainly side with the argument that saving the enemy is completely ridiculous and non-beneificial.
It's even demonstrated clearly in Elizabeth's actions, telling Ludoshel to ''you will stand down'', or later saying that she shouldn't interfere. And even then, Ludoshel even directly says in front of Sariel and Tarmiel that the Supreme Goddess would not be happy with what Elizabeth is doing, BUT because she is of a higher ranking than them, and the SG never gave a direct order for the situation, they have to listen.
The royal family is at the top of the clan, and because of that Estarossa could command the military IF his brothers or father, of higher rank didn't already have an influence.
Ludoshel didn't get in trouble because the actions he committed (e.g failing to kill Indura) were down to Elizabeth's influence and orders, a superior ranking individual, and therefore the responsibility was with her, hence why she got punished and not him.
Plus, I'm sure the Supreme Goddess would turn a blind eye to the miss deeds of Ludoshel because she knows he isn't a ''traitor'' and is dedicated to the clan, unlike Elizabeth who's happy to commit herself to a taboo relationship - so it's only natural the Supreme Goddess is extremely strict with her own daughter, but is more care free with her other subjects.
Elizabeth has no direct control over the Archangels. They respect her title, but she has no authoritative position. As seen here
Not only was Ludoshell surprised at what they were doing,which why would he be surprised at 2 soldiers following their commanders wishes when thats what you're supposed to do in the first place? His expectations were for them to follow their normal duties of eliminating the threat. Not only that, but Sariel and Tamriels answered that they were "acting of their own free will". They made that choice to help her, they didnt HAVE to. Ludoshell himself defying her wishes at every turn is example enough. Mel and Zeldris are different as they were given the positions "representative" and "commander" respectively. Elizabeth has no such position. What she does have, is a royal title. Titles and positions can be very different things.
"Monspiet says it has particular advantage over darkness." Yea, no shit, that means it DOESNT, have that particular advantage over non darkness empowered beings. Thank you lmao
Why are you thanking me? You should be thanking yourself for being careless enough to show me you quoted an entire paragraph of mine, but ignored about 1/3 of it. I originally was wary of the possibility the manga showed any of the effect Ark could have on anyone non-demonic, but then corrected myself(and you quoted that), saying that I recalled Hikari Are being used on Diane(though it was directly applied to the human souls angry with Helbram), regular Arks' effect on nature and matter itself(therefore I also acknowledged the physical effect magic blasts have, long before the Charge&Fire debacle) and the situation with the human village exterminated by Stigma forces including goddesses) and it doesn't change the fact that I was replying a post of yours widely mocking the idea that Ark would help goddesses, namely Elizabeth against any non-demon. Your tone back then was conveying sarcasm better than the string of "lmao"s this time around. But here's one more thing, the goddesses also have brainwashing which works on everyone save for those blessed against it. So, yeah, the more you challenge, the more methods to defeat a non-demon even without violence can be found.
The fact that the only thing you're clinging to is literally one manga panel of Elizabeth tanking not even multiple shards of increase, but one shard of increase
Hah, that was one example of the "newer" events involving cursed Elizabeth, and it's not something I'm really clinging to, only adding to the list. It sure beats always, but always falling back on Derrieri's punch which couldn't even break her nose, render her unconscious or kill(though the girl sure looked murderous). I do owe you thanks for making me truly analyse Elizabeth's reaction to it, and it clearly took more than the impact of Derrieri's fist with her face to render her unconscious.
You mean she took one hit, while the others took multiple barrages? And despite taking that ONE hit, she was able to continue focusing on Mel. Yes, not that impressive.
Yes, she was able to rapidly heal that ONE hit while still dealing with Meliodas and it sure makes it less impressive to you as it doesn't offer you the excuse to claim even worse things. And my main point was that even in her weakened form, despite any never-ending tirade you guys will hold on how Derrieri knocked her out once, there are several other instances where she does make up for her lacking physical endurance with self-healing. So, in return, I find that punch with its entire context far less impressive than those moments.
If someone writes a 5 paragraph essay on why Elizabeth cannot beat Escanor, but one sentence in there is "She can't even beat Howzer". Even though I may not agree with that one sentence, I have no problem liking the post due to the overall message. And no, I do not HAVE to specifically state that I disagree with that sentence just to satisfy your love for Elizabeth.
It was never about anyone's love for any particular character, it was about you aligning yourself with a general idea that often sounds just as crazy, insulting or worse than those you do go against, then expect for it to not affect your credibility in front of those you get into debates with, if you didn't try to clarify your stance.
Because crumbling stone doesn't burn skin? What? Also Charge and Fire caused an immense crater. It's a magical attack that caused raw physical damage, as that's what ATTACKS do. Unless you're telling me that the crater was due to the spirit of the rocks being damaged lul. If you look at 2 beings, both with weak physical natures, and compare the damages that they took, you can come to a conclusion that one is more durable than the other. Also magical defense? What? Where'd you pull that from? You're either durable or you're not.
Here you go doing exactly what you claimed I did. First you ignore the exact insinuation to my noticing the crater(which came with the crumbling stones), then you mention it yourself. I took into consideration the fact that the damage from the burns looked worse, while also remembering that it's the magic/burning effect of Escanor's Sunshine that always hurts his opponents more than physical impact with crater edges or rocks. Elizabeth's been beaten bloody before she knew she could heal herself and still survived, without losing consciousness and while looking to dispel the enchantment over Meliodas and Diane cast by Ruin, she was wounded in that skirmish with Griamore and possessed Dreyfus and still got up to defend Mel and Gil by leaving with Hendricksen, after she figured out she could self-heal, she started tampering with her durability by defending herself like that. And yes, I will be talking about magic defense or resistance,if it can be linked to the story touching on elemental resistance/vulnerability, blessings, healing , buffing, debuffing and whatever can tamper with durability as a whole, and I can give examples in that respect; if you want to discuss them and know how to indicate those elements/aspects in this story, go ahead. If you want to make comparisons in the same vein, show me where did Gloxinia, in the absence of his healing abilities, displayed better durability to Elizabeth's(in general) to physical violence, since your favourite example of durability failure on Elizabeth's part is in the physical range. But at least objectively consider all the times she was faced with physical damage, not the only moment she didn't get to overcome it.
I am talking about Ark's offensive capability. Sure, ark can chop through forests, mountains, buildings, etc, but ONCE AGAIN, you just answered the question for me. You said, and I quote, "Monspiet says it has particular advantage over darkness." Yea, no shit, that means it DOESNT, have that particular advantage over non darkness empowered beings. Thank you lmao
I was pointing out that Ark doesn't simply chop through forests or landscape, it blasts them away like dynamite, meaning that it has the same effect, on all organic matter. With only the different requirements that the wielder should be naturally more powerful than the target, whereas with demons, the advantage helps with compensating for some of the power difference if the demon>the goddess. But the "burning"/disintegrating effect seems to remain regardless of the nature of the target.
Also, I have no reason to be salty, you're trying to accuse me of being unable to read English by bringing up an exchange of replies from weeks ago and you make it look like the message of my reply is still evading you, even though you also quoted your own reply to it, where you were reiterating even clearer the idea I was criticising. I'm under the impression you're having more problems with your own English and the messages of your posts than you have with my English or I with yours, cause if you can afford sarcasm, you should recognise it when others use it too and what it's directed at.
If a sword cuts off your arm and you are bleeding to death, the attack was physical in nature 100% because the damn laws of physics aren't having to rewrite themselves.
If a sword slashes through your arm, yet your arm doesn't get cut off, there's no blood, and darkness exits your body (and no one healed you) That shit aint right and has some weird ass property...
Therefore, the conclusion is that off-page healing never happens and half of the S&D squad was dead by the end of the first battle, as it was decreed by the real author of Nanatsu no Taizai, MrSchmitty7. Oh, well, at least I get to talk with the author.
Yep and notices how Gowther isn't even a fighter himself due to that fact, Nerobasta said that he is one of the 10C who isn't the combat type of the group, that is obvious due to the nature of his attack and magic.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
In all mankind history, when it comes to war, the generals of the army have higher authority than any princes or princess in the Army.
For example, if the general said something like: " it is too dangerous your highness, soldiers, escort the highness into the castle. "
Even if the prince or princess reply: " how dare you, I am the royalty here. "
It wouldn't work because the soldiers know that the place of royalty isn't to command the soldiers in war, it is to be in security on the castle, waiting that their army beat the enemy with their life.
That is common sense for anyone who has a slight knowledge in war and history.
Therefore, the conclusion is that off-page healing never happens and half of the S&D squad was dead by the end of the first battle, as it was decreed by the real author of Nanatsu no Taizai, MrSchmitty7. Oh, well, at least I get to talk with the author.
Why are you thanking me? You should be thanking yourself for being careless enough to show me you quoted an entire paragraph of mine, but ignored about 1/3 of it. I originally was wary of the possibility the manga showed any of the effect Ark could have on anyone non-demonic, but then corrected myself(and you quoted that), saying that I recalled Hikari Are being used on Diane(though it was directly applied to the human souls angry with Helbram), regular Arks' effect on nature and matter itself(therefore I also acknowledged the physical effect magic blasts have, long before the Charge&Fire debacle) and the situation with the human village exterminated by Stigma forces including goddesses) and it doesn't change the fact that I was replying a post of yours widely mocking the idea that Ark would help goddesses, namely Elizabeth against any non-demon. Your tone back then was conveying sarcasm better than the string of "lmao"s this time around. But here's one more thing, the goddesses also have brainwashing which works on everyone save for those blessed against it. So, yeah, the more you challenge, the more methods to defeat a non-demon even without violence can be found.
I wasn't talking about the non physical aspects like Hikari Are. My point is exactly like you posted, Power of light has an advantage over pod beings, that it wouldnt otherwise have on non pod beings. Simple as that.So once again, THANK YOU. As for breath of bless, it requires her to target someone directly. It can still be evaded in combat seeing as it's a projectile, it isn't an instant win. Galan was able to dodge a teleport snap from Merlin in less than a second, and we've seen how instantaneous Merlin's teleportation is. Also I was mocking and being sarcastic? So you can't detect sarcasm nor do you even know what mocking looks like. Please, show me where I was mocking. The exact quote.
Hah, that was one example of the "newer" events involving cursed Elizabeth, and it's not something I'm really clinging to, only adding to the list. It sure beats always, but always falling back on Derrieri's punch which couldn't even break her nose, render her unconscious or kill(though the girl sure looked murderous). I do owe you thanks for making me truly analyse Elizabeth's reaction to it, and it clearly took more than the impact of Derrieri's fist with her face to render her unconscious.
She got hit, she got knocked out. Any other damage she took wasn't a direct hit to the face, at least not blunt-force wise. That was the only example of a direct blunt hit to the face, and her durability proved poor.
Yes, she was able to rapidly heal that ONE hit while still dealing with Meliodas and it sure makes it less impressive to you as it doesn't offer you the excuse to claim even worse things. And my main point was that even in her weakened form, despite any never-ending tirade you guys will hold on how Derrieri knocked her out once, there are several other instances where she does make up for her lacking physical endurance with self-healing. So, in return, I find that punch with its entire context far less impressive than those moments.
It was never about anyone's love for any particular character, it was about you aligning yourself with a general idea that often sounds just as crazy, insulting or worse than those you do go against, then expect for it to not affect your credibility in front of those you get into debates with, if you didn't try to clarify your stance.
Here you go doing exactly what you claimed I did. First you ignore the exact insinuation to my noticing the crater(which came with the crumbling stones), then you mention it yourself. I took into consideration the fact that the damage from the burns looked worse, while also remembering that it's the magic/burning effect of Escanor's Sunshine that always hurts his opponents more than physical impact with crater edges or rocks. Elizabeth's been beaten bloody before she knew she could heal herself and still survived, without losing consciousness and while looking to dispel the enchantment over Meliodas and Diane cast by Ruin, she was wounded in that skirmish with Griamore and possessed Dreyfus and still got up to defend Mel and Gil by leaving with Hendricksen, after she figured out she could self-heal, she started tampering with her durability by defending herself like that. And yes, I will be talking about magic defense or resistance,if it can be linked to the story touching on elemental resistance/vulnerability, blessings, healing , buffing, debuffing and whatever can tamper with durability as a whole, and I can give examples in that respect; if you want to discuss them and know how to indicate those elements/aspects in this story, go ahead. If you want to make comparisons in the same vein, show me where did Gloxinia, in the absence of his healing abilities, displayed better durability to Elizabeth's(in general) to physical violence, since your favourite example of durability failure on Elizabeth's part is in the physical range. But at least objectively consider all the times she was faced with physical damage, not the only moment she didn't get to overcome it.
When was she wounded against Griamore? Post the scan. Also there's no specific mention of "magic resistance", only overall durability. If there is, show me a scan cause I forgot. Also all the times she was faced with physical damage huh. Aside from direct hits to the head? There's barely much to use, nothing of substance at least. There's chandlers slice, which rendered her immobile for a bit, theres the increase hit she took in the back which burned her, and a few other moments that weren't really liable to knock her out. Once again, and it's simple, whether the damage was due to a burn, or the blunt force, Gloxinia took a hit with far more power behind it, than Derriere's punch and remained conscious. His durability allowed him to take that damage. Both the effects of the blast, as well as the effects of the burn. A blast mind you, that caused an immense crater. (Something that also causes crumbling stones, blasts that is.) If you're trying to tell me that it was the heat rather than the sheer force of the blast that caused the immense crater, then I don't know what to tell ya.
I was pointing out that Ark doesn't simply chop through forests or landscape, it blasts them away like dynamite, meaning that it has the same effect, on all organic matter. With only the different requirements that the wielder should be naturally more powerful than the target, whereas with demons, the advantage helps with compensating for some of the power difference if the demon>the goddess. But the "burning"/disintegrating effect seems to remain regardless of the nature of the target.
And did I ever say, that the burning or disintegrating effect didnt remain? If so please post where I stated that. Again, youre not reading my message properly.
Also, I have no reason to be salty, you're trying to accuse me of being unable to read English by bringing up an exchange of replies from weeks ago and you make it look like the message of my reply is still evading you, even though you also quoted your own reply to it, where you were reiterating even clearer the idea I was criticising. I'm under the impression you're having more problems with your own English and the messages of your posts than you have with my English or I with yours, cause if you can afford sarcasm, you should recognise it when others use it too and what it's directed at.
Lmao if that was sarcasm you have some improvements to make. Anyway, you loud and clear accused me of calling Hikari Are as well as the ark she used, damage inflicting, when I directly stated otherwise. Listen if English isn't your first language just let me know and I'll have no problem clarifying things. But this arrogance of yours surpasses even Escanor and that's quite something. FYI, the sentence "Because crumbling stone doesn't burn skin" is not a clear and concise English sentence. Which is why at times your messages can seem jumbled. Now there's nothing wrong like I said, with not being an English wiz, even native English speakers f*ck up. But just humble yourself and clarify things, or even ask me to clarify things if necessary instead of this annoying arrogance you portray. It certainly doesn't help your already lackluster arguments.
What do you think about Wild's PL? He's clearly stronger/faster than Ban and E.Meliodas and Ban is surely stronger than when he was 3k. But E.Meliodas is nowhere near Meliodas' actual PL in the real world and the gap between E.Meliodas and Wild isn't huge. And taking hits from a DK who is definitely holding back a lot doesn't put him much more than 50k for me, plus he's naturally "resistant" to much damage as we've seen with Hawk and Hawk mama. Also what's current Ban and E.Meliodas' PL?
My guess is :
Post Purgatory Ban - 35/40k
E.Meliodas - 25/30k
Wild - 50k+
Considering how he fought the Demon King several times and didn't take much damage even when he was flicked away, I would say he is low-mid tier commandment level. (30-40k)
All his PL is probably physical as well, which makes sense considering how he took a blow from a heavy nerfed Demon King.
I mean his attacks did nothing and all the DK had to do was pick him up and flick him around and the DK is nerfed and this has gone on for 120K plus times. But to be fair his body is pretty durable thanks to purgatory, so yeah 10K-20K sounds about right
But while I’m at it, Hawk’s power level is very contradictory. He’s at 30, yet takes op hits. It makes no sense when you consider that he didn’t grow up in purgatory and likely didn’t adapt as much as Wild. But hey, he’s mainly comedic effect
Estarossa with sunshine
Base at sunrise activated grace112k PL
Before 1130 am 195k PL
Before the one on his measurable PL around 1159am around 250k PL
Weakest State Night Mode : 60k
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Meliodas base AM state 145k PL
Meliodas advance AM state 190k PL
Meliodas haxx AM state around 230k PL
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Ludociel's around 125k PL
Zeldris advance demon mark around 120k PL
Zeldris's activated DK power - unscathable state like Escanor's "the one"
Ludociel's flash - can penetrate the unscathable including Zel's activated DK power and DK's ruler
I don't think anyone really doubts her overall magical power. Not too sure about the 100k part due to purge being able to affect beings even higher than the caster. Hell Zaratras poured all of his very being into purge, which is barely above 3k,and was able to completely purge a 30k+ demon.
Nonetheless, I don't think Elizabeth is very low either, since to affect them in the first place it had to be moderately impressive. If she's around 60k, then by exerting herself to the point of losing consciousness, it's no surprise she was even able to force them into phase 2 due to the nature of purge. But yea, her overall magic power is not low by any means. What is in question however, is other factors that make someone combat efficient like reaction speed, speed, durability, etc, as well as her overall power level compared to the top tiers.
Decided to move this to this thread, since this response was off-topic and I imagine others would love to discuss it for the 20th time whilst we have no spoilers
That comparison isn't note worthy to Elizabeth's situation.
All she did was put 100% of her magic power/effort into the purification spell, and because she had the level of magic power to do, was able to force Indura to phase 2. Zaratras on the other hand, along with Fraudrin acknowledged that with their level of magic power, they wouldn't be able to purge Dreyfus body, they simply weren't strong enough, so to comprise for the gap in power he sacrificed his life energy, which is a very unique situation compared to Elizabeth who just exerted herself. So you can't really say ''well we've seen weaker people due it to stronger people so Elizabeth could be lower than Indura..'' because that ignores the context.
It was clearly established in my opinion that Elizabeth had the power to affect the Indura, because either she was their equal, or above them in power until Phase 2 (I'd argue maybe slightly lower but could win in a 1v1). We saw Ludoshel's ark failed because he was too weak to take on the Indura, but then we saw Elizabeth's ark working, so to me it proves she's of a higher PL to Ludoshel and somewhat close to Phase 2 Indura.
I can already predict the whole Purification vs Offensive Ark argument coming from this, but it's nonsense to me. Ludoshel basically admitted to us that he found it impossible that the AA's were going to lose to the Indura, and couldn't do anything to change the outcome of the fight, and was panicking like mad until Elizabeth told him to step down and he was suddenly calm. I mean, HE even ASKED her for her power/assistance in eliminating the Indura and he personally dislikes her, so that tells me Elizabeth's ark would've just been as effective against the Indura until phase 2 if she went in with offensive ark/intent to kill, Ludoshel proves that with his request since he wanted to eliminate the Indura and not purify them.
So to me the Indura feat + Ludoshel's statement prove that she is AA tier + and near/slightly higher/lower than the Indura, because it makes no sense for purification to be better than ark, they are both just as effective as each other but lead to different outcomes: one purifies and the other hurts/kills.
But let's say purification is superior to offensive ark when against Demons. Why didn't the AA then use any type of purification? They were in a desperate situation and from the looks of it Ludoshel was about to be killed, so why didn't he immediately switch to that tactic, purify and then immediately kill their defensive-less forms? Logically, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do that if the whole purification > offensive ark makes sense AND half this forum believes Elizabeth's ark is inferior to his (but by feats it's not).
And even if you say ''lol it's just a purification feat, it doesn't prove Elizabeth could kill the Indura with offensive ark since her purification might be her strongest weapon''. What does that take away from Elizabeth? It still means she can purify Indura level demons or maybe higher in a 11, then offensive ark their defensive-less bodies for the kill the instant they are purified of all their darkness.
If Elizabeth (Goddess) did end up having a 100-120k PL (which is what I predict she is with the Indura) then practically all of it would be Magic/Spirit, whilst a little or some would be physical. It would make sense that way, since her magic seems much more powerful than Ludoshel's, but he's currently done better feats than her when it comes to physical stats.
You might not agree that her PL is that high, but it's already established (imo) that she is AA tier minimum (PL wise), since Goddess wings = power and Elizabeth's seem equal/bigger or larger than Ludoshel's depending on the angle/detail of the image, so that tells us that Nakaba is putting her around Ludoshel's level, or slightly higher (10-20k).
Decided to move this to this thread, since this response was off-topic and I imagine others would love to discuss it for the 20th time whilst we have no spoilers
That comparison isn't note worthy to Elizabeth's situation.
All she did was put 100% of her magic power/effort into the purification spell, and because she had the level of magic power to do, was able to force Indura to phase 2. Zaratras on the other hand, along with Fraudrin acknowledged that with their level of magic power, they wouldn't be able to purge Dreyfus body, they simply weren't strong enough, so to comprise for the gap in power he sacrificed his life energy, which is a very unique situation compared to Elizabeth who just exerted herself. So you can't really say ''well we've seen weaker people due it to stronger people so Elizabeth could be lower than Indura..'' because that ignores the context.
It was clearly established in my opinion that Elizabeth had the power to affect the Indura, because either she was their equal, or above them in power until Phase 2 (I'd argue maybe slightly lower but could win in a 1v1). We saw Ludoshel's ark failed because he was too weak to take on the Indura, but then we saw Elizabeth's ark working, so to me it proves she's of a higher PL to Ludoshel and somewhat close to Phase 2 Indura.
I can already predict the whole Purification vs Offensive Ark argument coming from this, but it's nonsense to me. Ludoshel basically admitted to us that he found it impossible that the AA's were going to lose to the Indura, and couldn't do anything to change the outcome of the fight, and was panicking like mad until Elizabeth told him to step down and he was suddenly calm. I mean, HE even ASKED her for her power/assistance in eliminating the Indura and he personally dislikes her, so that tells me Elizabeth's ark would've just been as effective against the Indura until phase 2 if she went in with offensive ark/intent to kill, Ludoshel proves that with his request since he wanted to eliminate the Indura and not purify them.
So to me the Indura feat + Ludoshel's statement prove that she is AA tier + and near/slightly higher/lower than the Indura, because it makes no sense for purification to be better than ark, they are both just as effective as each other but lead to different outcomes: one purifies and the other hurts/kills.
But let's say purification is superior to offensive ark when against Demons. Why didn't the AA then use any type of purification? They were in a desperate situation and from the looks of it Ludoshel was about to be killed, so why didn't he immediately switch to that tactic, purify and then immediately kill their defensive-less forms? Logically, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do that if the whole purification > offensive ark makes sense AND half this forum believes Elizabeth's ark is inferior to his (but by feats it's not).
And even if you say ''lol it's just a purification feat, it doesn't prove Elizabeth could kill the Indura with offensive ark since her purification might be her strongest weapon''. What does that take away from Elizabeth? It still means she can purify Indura level demons or maybe higher in a 11, then offensive ark their defensive-less bodies for the kill the instant they are purified of all their darkness.
If Elizabeth (Goddess) did end up having a 100-120k PL (which is what I predict she is with the Indura) then practically all of it would be Magic/Spirit, whilst a little or some would be physical. It would make sense that way, since her magic seems much more powerful than Ludoshel's, but he's currently done better feats than her when it comes to physical stats.
You might not agree that her PL is that high, but it's already established (imo) that she is AA tier minimum (PL wise), since Goddess wings = power and Elizabeth's seem equal/bigger or larger than Ludoshel's depending on the angle/detail of the image, so that tells us that Nakaba is putting her around Ludoshel's level, or slightly higher (10-20k).
Well of course considering Zaratra's magical ability is barely 1200k. But overall entire life-energy, is linked to full magical power. Hence why after Gustaf used the last remaining ounce of his power to save Jericho, he died. Zaratra's overall life-power, WAS his magical power, which is 3k. Also Elizabeth used ark on the Induras? When? I thought she only used purge? And yes he did ask for her assistance in assisting them but as we once discussed before, she could've assisted in more ways than just direct combat. Could be to distract them while he attacks, could be to provide cover fire, could be to heal, could be to suppress them with purge while the other's attack. Many other ways for her to have assisted rather than blasting them in the face with ark. The AA's also could just not be proficient in purification, after all we've constantly gotten praise regarding Elizabeth's white magic abilities such as healing but we've never once seen them use those tactics. If you dont regularly use something, then you cant truly maximize your potential in that area. Unlike them however, Elizabeth uses white magic regularly. I don't count her purifying the Indura's as a long lasting feat since we have no indication she can purify a regular demon. "Let there be light" was used to purify the Indura's, considering it was excess darkness not natural to demon's regular state. Same with Melascula whose true form was just a regular snake, so purifying the excess darkness was possible. That is the reason I think she even knew to use purify.
Would that same spell work on regular demons? We really don't know. And yes, the reason Ludoshell was happy she came was because she is more than capable of providing an opening
Elizabeth with her purifying, showed more than capable of stalling the Induras, which would've allowed the 4AA to strike during that moment as he stated "now's our chance!". This is what I mean when I say that she could've assisted in the battle in multiple ways.
Well of course considering Zaratra's magical ability is barely 1200k. But overall entire life-energy, is linked to full magical power. Hence why after Gustaf used the last remaining ounce of his power to save Jericho, he died. Zaratra's overall life-power, WAS his magical power, which is 3k.
His PL was only 3k without any sacrifice of life-energy
I imagine with it he momentarily raised his PL, then the purge took affect, subsequently losing his life etc.
So I'm confused why you associated Zaratras sacrifice of life energy to Elizabeth merely exerting herself against the Indura? I don't see the correlation or relevance.
It's a purification ability but it's classed as ark - and from the name, which has reference to Christianity and God in religion, it seems to be a spell/ability that seems exclusive to Elizabeth, since she is daughter of God and Ludoshel instantly could tell what she was doing when using the spell.
Individually, Ludoshel's ark proved to be useless and didn't do any damage, even to a Phase 1 Indura Derriere that didn't even take him seriously and ended up allowing his ark to hit her.
[
That's just one example, there are other instances where his ark hits her at a point blank rage (etc) and it does nothing.
So her being a distraction wouldn't work, because:
A) Indura are beasts and react on instinct, and because of that they are highly unpredictable and inconsistent with their behaviour. Any normal individual would immediately eliminate an enemy at the first opportunity, but Monspiet in Indura kept 2AA's under his tentacles barely alive because Ludoshel was a source of entertainment for him. And you have to distract 2 Indura, who are very dangerous - seems unlikel to happen.
B) Ludoshel can't hurt the Indura by himself, not even with his grace, since that is just speed.
Sariel and Tarmiel? Monspiet was right there, and if Elizabeth tried anything I'm pretty sure he would react and go after her (or Derriere).
Ludoshel? I mean, he received some damage, but he seemed to be standing fine, so healing didn't seem to be necessary, and would once again accomplish nothing by himself with his ark. So healing would've just denied the inevitable.
Possibly. Elizabeth using ''Let There Be Light'' and making the Indura's desperate and on the possible threshold of defeat, where the AA's ark would have greater effectiveness now, does mean that Ludoshel could've done some damage and maybe even killed them. I mean, Ludoshel was even going to attack when Elizabeth was holding them back, but from the looks of it, due to his comments of telling her that the demons are not worthy of her ''salvation'' and mercy, he didn't want her to purify them and instead wanted to outright eliminate them, which indicates he wanted her to use offensive ark, and not purification.
But the context of the situation and Ludoshel comments suggests that though?
I mean, we've already established fairly, that:
A) Ludoshel can't individually harm the Indura's, so he needs assistance if he wants to do that.
B) Sariel and Tarmiel can't ideally help unless him or Elizabeth free them, but doing so means they have to bypass both Indura and THEN have time to heal them, or even stall enough for them to heal themselves, seems unreliable and unlikely to happen at best, especially when you consider Ludoshel was getting physically overwhelmed, and it's fairly acceptable that Elizabeth is weaker than him in physical stats from current feats. So because of that, the only way to bypass the Indura seems to be through a magic approach rather than speeding to save the AA. So once again we're forced back to offensive ark.
C) Ludoshel's comment ASKED for her assistance in specifically eliminating the Indura. From the translation, which I do not trust 100% without FKS approval, had Ludoshel specifically saying that she came ''at the perfect time. Let us combine our powers and destroy these hideous beasts once and for all.''
And mind you, the second she appeared his attitude went from:
This:
To (Being Calm):
So considering the context of the situation, his request, and what he wants to fulfil (their destruction, or in simple terms, death) - He's VERY highly suggesting that he wants them to combine their ark in a offensive manner in order to kill the Indura. He never suggested purification, and the second she went for that route he tried to talk her out of it.
And considering how Elizabeth's ark was very effective against the Indura and made them desperate, I have no doubt in my mind that Elizabeth and Ludoshel combining their ark in multiple ways (offensively) could end up killing Indura, even at Phase 2.
So here's my question, because of the context and Ludoshel's request, do you still believe he wanted her to just be a distraction, or to provide support by healing when he couldn't do anything individually and doing anything other than outright killing them seems dangerous?
The AA's also could just not be proficient in purification, after all we've constantly gotten praise regarding Elizabeth's white magic abilities such as healing but we've never once seen them use those tactics. If you dont regularly use something, then you cant truly maximize your potential in that area. Unlike them however, Elizabeth uses white magic regularly.
Sure, that's a possibility. Because after all, if Elizabeth specialised into purification, then it's natural she will be more proficient in that area of ark, but at the same time, if the argument of purification > offensive ark was really true regardless the level of efficiency of the practitioner, then why didn't the AA use purification immediately? They are still the Four Archangels, and I imagine that even if they were less skilled in purification, if it was known to have higher levels of effectiveness against demons, then surely they would go for the purification route regardless of their skill in it, correct? I mean, Ludoshel was desperate and looking for a solution to his problem, and that happened to be Elizabeth.
I don't count her purifying the Indura's as a long lasting feat since we have no indication she can purify a regular demon. "Let there be light" was used to purify the Indura's, considering it was excess darkness not natural to demon's regular state. Same with Melascula whose true form was just a regular snake, so purifying the excess darkness was possible. That is the reason I think she even knew to use purify.
But at the same time, another ark ability that is classed as purification and is used by the Druids (Purge) can remove demonic entities from a host, and if directly used on a Demon's original and true form, can outright kill them.
We see Hendrickson and Zaratras outright killing Red & Grey Demons with purge, and yet they didn't have any visible and excess darkness, so that tells me that purification can end up killing demons, if the intent is there.
For arguments sake, let's say Elizabeth uses ''Let There Be Light'' on Meliodas, she could (this is just hypothetical) purify his Assault Mode, bringing him back to his base, which should be 60k, then immediately slap him with some critical and offensive ark, which would do heavy damage since he's defenseless.
Or better yet, purifying him with the intent to kill, rather than to save could end up outright killing him (like how purge does to fodder demons) if it ended up working.
Would that same spell work on regular demons? We really don't know. And yes, the reason Ludoshell was happy she came was because she is more than capable of providing an opening
Elizabeth with her purifying, showed more than capable of stalling the Induras, which would've allowed the 4AA to strike during that moment as he stated "now's our chance!". This is what I mean when I say that she could've assisted in the battle in multiple ways.
As mentioned above, Ludoshel never directly wanted her to be of assistance to him by purifying them. He wanted her power in order to kill the Indura, and from the Chapter, it looks like the best way to go about that is with offensive ark.
Him taking advantage of her stalling the desperate Indura and trying to kill them whilst they are immobile is more of Ludoshel just improvising and working around the situation. He never wanted her to purify or use that spell, he was heavily against it, but because she ended up doing it anyway, then you might as well work around it right?
I mean, he didn't want her to purify, but even if she does, if they are left purified and defenseless, then they are easily kill-able. Not a optimal situation, but definitely something Ludoshel can work around.
Not only was Ludoshell surprised at what they were doing,which why would he be surprised at 2 soldiers following their commanders wishes when thats what you're supposed to do in the first place? His expectations were for them to follow their normal duties of eliminating the threat. Not only that, but Sariel and Tamriels answered that they were "acting of their own free will". They made that choice to help her, they didnt HAVE to. Ludoshell himself defying her wishes at every turn is example enough. Mel and Zeldris are different as they were given the positions "representative" and "commander" respectively. Elizabeth has no such position. What she does have, is a royal title. Titles and positions can be very different things.
All the Four Archangels are of a equal rank, so Ludoshel has no jurisdiction on ordering Sariel and Tarmiel, he can certainly ask them for favours, but from a technical stand point, they had no obligation to follow his word, merely respect it.
And fair enough, it does seem like Sariel and Tarmiel were acting on their free will, but if so, why did they help Elizabeth and not Ludoshel? If she has no authority over them, then there is no real consequence (other than her reaction) to all 3AA killing the Indura rather than 2 of them purifying them with Elizabeth.
I mean, they STILL made the decision to help her when Ludoshel screamed at her that the Supreme Goddess would never forgive us for this. Why do something that you know the leader of your clan isn't going to like?
Sure, they were acting on their free will, but at the same time they said they were Elizabeth's allies through and through, which suggests that they have heavy respect for her. AND since she didn't give them a direct order, they had the free will to help or not.
Plus, when it came to the Indura situation, the burden and responsibility fell on Elizabeth and none of the AA, so it proves to an extent that she had the authority to dictate what was happening back there.
So, essentially my counter to this argument is:
A) They only had ''free will'' because Elizabeth never gave Sariel and Tarmiel direct orders, she just told Ludoshel to step down and stay out of the way.
B) Helping Elizabeth has no real benefit, except pleasing her and if there is no consequence in ignoring her wishes, just kill the Indura, it's the most beneficial and logical decision to do, but they didn't do that, because I believe that since Elizabeth was the princess, they followed her word rather than Ludoshel's, even when she didn't order them to.
Then why do the AA follow her orders and wishes for the most part? Except Ludoshel and his vendetta of genocide for all Demon-Kind, the other AA seem obedient to her will, and will follow her.
If she had no authoritative position over them, why do so? Especially when some of her decisions, like saving the Indura rather than killing them, are non-beneficial for the Goddesses?
His PL was only 3k without any sacrifice of life-energy
I imagine with it he momentarily raised his PL, then the purge took affect, subsequently losing his life etc.
So I'm confused why you associated Zaratras sacrifice of life energy to Elizabeth merely exerting herself against the Indura? I don't see the correlation or relevance.
Nothing stating that it momentarily raised his PL. He said he used "all of his life energy" which equates to total magical power. I made the comparison due to the fact that a significantly lower power level being can affect a higher level demon with purge. Well at least purge it from a host.
It's a purification ability but it's classed as ark - and from the name, which has reference to Christianity and God in religion, it seems to be a spell/ability that seems exclusive to Elizabeth, since she is daughter of God and Ludoshel instantly could tell what she was doing when using the spell.
Individually, Ludoshel's ark proved to be useless and didn't do any damage, even to a Phase 1 Indura Derriere that didn't even take him seriously and ended up allowing his ark to hit her.
[
That's just one example, there are other instances where his ark hits her at a point blank rage (etc) and it does nothing.
So her being a distraction wouldn't work, because:
A) Indura are beasts and react on instinct, and because of that they are highly unpredictable and inconsistent with their behaviour. Any normal individual would immediately eliminate an enemy at the first opportunity, but Monspiet in Indura kept 2AA's under his tentacles barely alive because Ludoshel was a source of entertainment for him. And you have to distract 2 Indura, who are very dangerous - seems unlikel to happen.
B) Ludoshel can't hurt the Indura by himself, not even with his grace, since that is just speed.
They could've combined graces as they've done before. Even against Estarossa they stated they couldnt use their graces to it's maximum potential due to their hosts bodies. They were a lot of things they didn't display
Sariel and Tarmiel? Monspiet was right there, and if Elizabeth tried anything I'm pretty sure he would react and go after her (or Derriere).
Ludoshel? I mean, he received some damage, but he seemed to be standing fine, so healing didn't seem to be necessary, and would once again accomplish nothing by himself with his ark. So healing would've just denied the inevitable.
We know Ludoshell had more to show. Distracting them as Elizabeth goes in to heal is certainly possibly. We already know hes above the other AA's, yet he still hasn't displayed anything on their level in terms of dimensional creation, and from his own words, he wasnt giving it his all. But its far more likely he wanted her aid in keeping them back with purification while the other's striked.
Possibly. Elizabeth using ''Let There Be Light'' and making the Indura's desperate and on the possible threshold of defeat, where the AA's ark would have greater effectiveness now, does mean that Ludoshel could've done some damage and maybe even killed them. I mean, Ludoshel was even going to attack when Elizabeth was holding them back, but from the looks of it, due to his comments of telling her that the demons are not worthy of her ''salvation'' and mercy, he didn't want her to purify them and instead wanted to outright eliminate them, which indicates he wanted her to use offensive ark, and not purification.
What? He only got mad after she uttered the words "i'm going to save them", then he realized her actual intention for the spell.
We have no clue that if she hadn't had said that, he would've stated "Nice strategy lady Elizabeth! Keep them back while we strike with the full might of our graces!" But he was mainly angry about her intention not her spell.
But the context of the situation and Ludoshel comments suggests that though?
I mean, we've already established fairly, that:
A) Ludoshel can't individually harm the Indura's, so he needs assistance if he wants to do that.
B) Sariel and Tarmiel can't ideally help unless him or Elizabeth free them, but doing so means they have to bypass both Indura and THEN have time to heal them, or even stall enough for them to heal themselves, seems unreliable and unlikely to happen at best, especially when you consider Ludoshel was getting physically overwhelmed, and it's fairly acceptable that Elizabeth is weaker than him in physical stats from current feats. So because of that, the only way to bypass the Indura seems to be through a magic approach rather than speeding to save the AA. So once again we're forced back to offensive ark.
C) Ludoshel's comment ASKED for her assistance in specifically eliminating the Indura. From the translation, which I do not trust 100% without FKS approval, had Ludoshel specifically saying that she came ''at the perfect time. Let us combine our powers and destroy these hideous beasts once and for all.''
And mind you, the second she appeared his attitude went from:
This:
To (Being Calm):
So considering the context of the situation, his request, and what he wants to fulfil (their destruction, or in simple terms, death) - He's VERY highly suggesting that he wants them to combine their ark in a offensive manner in order to kill the Indura. He never suggested purification, and the second she went for that route he tried to talk her out of it.
And considering how Elizabeth's ark was very effective against the Indura and made them desperate, I have no doubt in my mind that Elizabeth and Ludoshel combining their ark in multiple ways (offensively) could end up killing Indura, even at Phase 2.
So here's my question, because of the context and Ludoshel's request, do you still believe he wanted her to just be a distraction, or to provide support by healing when he couldn't do anything individually and doing anything other than outright killing them seems dangerous?
We've seen Sariel's Tornado do MUCH more than just create a barrier. It can create hill sized tornado's with ease, as well as slide apart an 88k level demon. Same with Tariels water pillar. Now just imagine that, but with Elizabeth weakening the Indura's with her purification, lowering their defenses and allowing the other's to use their graces to the max, including Ludoshell who has much more he could've shown. THIS is why I don't understand what you mean by context. Ludoshell stated "now's our chance" while she was purifying, why would he state that if it was just gonna be useless anyway? Her purification weakened the Indura's dramatically, and as we've seen time and time again, if your defenses are lowered, you're far more vulnerable.
Sure, that's a possibility. Because after all, if Elizabeth specialised into purification, then it's natural she will be more proficient in that area of ark, but at the same time, if the argument of purification > offensive ark was really true regardless the level of efficiency of the practitioner, then why didn't the AA use purification immediately? They are still the Four Archangels, and I imagine that even if they were less skilled in purification, if it was known to have higher levels of effectiveness against demons, then surely they would go for the purification route regardless of their skill in it, correct? I mean, Ludoshel was desperate and looking for a solution to his problem, and that happened to be Elizabeth.
As you've stated "let there be light", seems to be exclusive to Elizabeth. And it was indeed a very powerful purification spell. The strongest we've seen. As for a regular purge, you still have to touch the opponent to perform a regular purge. At least from what we've seen. They certainly would never have gotten the chance without Elizabeth distracting them as such.
But at the same time, another ark ability that is classed as purification and is used by the Druids (Purge) can remove demonic entities from a host, and if directly used on a Demon's original and true form, can outright kill them.
We see Hendrickson and Zaratras outright killing Red & Grey Demons with purge, and yet they didn't have any visible and excess darkness, so that tells me that purification can end up killing demons, if the intent is there.
For arguments sake, let's say Elizabeth uses ''Let There Be Light'' on Meliodas, she could (this is just hypothetical) purify his Assault Mode, bringing him back to his base, which should be 60k, then immediately slap him with some critical and offensive ark, which would do heavy damage since he's defenseless.
Or better yet, purifying him with the intent to kill, rather than to save could end up outright killing him (like how purge does to fodder demons) if it ended up working.
Yea I stated she couldn't purify a normal demon, however purge erases them, a much more direct attack. When Elizabeth uses purification she removes the darkness from them entirely, excess darkness that is. From all the times we've seen purge, it is not in the business of direct darkness removal. Also the thing is, the gap between Hendrickson and the grey demon was not abysmal. Zaratras couldn't even phase Fraudrin, until he used the full extent of his power, which was 3k, but even that was only able to expel him. But unlike Elizabeth, Zaratras didn't purify Fraudrin of any darkness, he simply forced him out of his host by zapping him out. Hendrickson on the other hand has a magic level of 1300k, while grey demons range from 2700-3200. That gap is far closer, than the gap between Zaratras and Fraudrin, and it's the reason that it could kill a higher demon, due to the reasonably not too high gap in power. So let's say purification or purge can work on someone, let's say, up to twice as strong. It stands to explain how she could purge the Induras. Fraudrin on the other hand, was up to 25 times stronger, than Zaratas's magical level hence he couldnt be budged. However using his full power, he was able to force Fraudrin to jump out of the body. Note however, he couldn't harm Fraudrin in any way. Also the problem with the other regular purge, is that it requires physical touch. Hendrickson had to gain assistance from his entire squad because he couldn't even get near the grey demon in the first place. Elizabeth is the only one who's been shown to perform long range purification. Most likely the only one with the skill to do so. But purification and straight up purging seem to accomplish different things. As for using "let there be light" on Assault Mel, he doesn't fit the qualifications really. All of that darkness is simply his natural state. Attempting to purge him is a different matter, altho even that is questionable considering the difference in power. Getting close to him in the first place would be suicidal.
As mentioned above, Ludoshel never directly wanted her to be of assistance to him by purifying them. He wanted her power in order to kill the Indura, and from the Chapter, it looks like the best way to go about that is with offensive ark.
Him taking advantage of her stalling the desperate Indura and trying to kill them whilst they are immobile is more of Ludoshel just improvising and working around the situation. He never wanted her to purify or use that spell, he was heavily against it, but because she ended up doing it anyway, then you might as well work around it right?
I mean, he didn't want her to purify, but even if she does, if they are left purified and defenseless, then they are easily kill-able. Not a optimal situation, but definitely something Ludoshel can work around.
As I said before, he only got mad after she uttered the words "I'm going to save them". Then he understood her intentions for the spell. There is nothing that stated he wanted her assistance in an offensive manner, or that he even expected for her to directly hurt them. Him taking advantage of her stalling is him accepting the fact that she has no intention to let them come to harm and just went about his way regardless.
Here we have Meliodas, telling both Drole and Gloxnina to watch over goddess Elizabeth and to protect her. That's right, as supposed "100K" Goddess needs protection, but not just from one person, but two people. She has OP magic sure, but she in and of herself is not High Tier. If she was high tier Mel wouldn't need to assign body guards to her. That'd be as smart as saying that Escanor needs protection
Here we have Meliodas, telling both Drole and Gloxnina to watch over goddess Elizabeth and to protect her. That's right, as supposed "100K" Goddess needs protection, but not just from one person, but two people. She has OP magic sure, but she in and of herself is not High Tier. If she was high tier Mel wouldn't need to assign body guards to her. That'd be as smart as saying that Escanor needs protection
Mainly it also show's how Mel thinks of her. That action shows that he doesnt really see her as the type to participate directly in the war alongside him as an equal. But rather something that can be harmed if not careful. A fragile sort of flower. He didnt state, "you two go and join Elizabeth to protect the forest!" he classified Elizabeth along the same group to be protected. Now one could argue that he's just being a protective boyfriend, and while thats part of it, it also show's his state of mind in seeing her as something that cannot keep up with such a brutal war. Something that requires the protection of those whose strength he acknowledges. But honestly she's gotten more of this type of treatment than most characters
Here we have Meliodas, telling both Drole and Gloxnina to watch over goddess Elizabeth and to protect her. That's right, as supposed "100K" Goddess needs protection, but not just from one person, but two people. She has OP magic sure, but she in and of herself is not High Tier. If she was high tier Mel wouldn't need to assign body guards to her. That'd be as smart as saying that Escanor needs protection
How is Meliodas saying he wants Gloxinia and Drole to protect Elizabeth mean anything lol?
He's in love with her and desperate to protect her from any danger, and the same goes for the other way around.
I mean she told him that she doesn't want him to get hurt anymore and went up to take on the Indura herself. According to your logic this must mean Meliodas is weaker than Indura right lol?
My sister could be a champion in martial arts but I'd still ask for her friends to look over her lol - doesn't mean fuck.
Mainly it also show's how Mel thinks of her. That action shows that he doesnt really see her as the type to participate directly in the war alongside him as an equal. But rather something that can be harmed if not careful. A fragile sort of flower. He didnt state, "you two go and join Elizabeth to protect the forest!" he classified Elizabeth along the same group to be protected. Now one could argue that he's just being a protective boyfriend, and while thats part of it, it also show's his state of mind in seeing her as something that cannot keep up with such a brutal war. Something that requires the protection of those whose strength he acknowledges. Seems the manga has been very clear on where Elizabeth stands compared to the higher tiers
It's natural that in a relationship you show protective concern for your significant other. Elizabeth does it for Meliodas, does this mean he isn't 142k because she went to go handle Indura instead of him?
No LOL.
And the manga hasn't made it clear yet. Where is her confirmed PL in her Goddess form? Where is her full backstory and explanation of powers?
Until Nakaba reveals these things, then no one's opinion is confirmed. I believe she is AA tier or higher because of the Indura feat, and others believe she is commandment tier.
If the manga made it clear, like how Meliodas power is crystal clear then there wouldn't be a huge differentiation of opinion. Like I think she's 120k max and Schmitty believes she's trash.
How is Meliodas saying he wants Gloxinia and Drole to protect Elizabeth mean anything lol?
He's in love with her and desperate to protect her from any danger, and the same goes for the other way around.
I mean she told him that she doesn't want him to get hurt anymore and went up to take on the Indura herself. According to your logic this must mean Meliodas is weaker than Indura right lol?
My sister could be a champion in martial arts but I'd still ask for her friends to look over her lol - doesn't mean fuck.
What he doesn't love drole or glox? Face it, if she didn't need backup then he wouldn't give it to her. If she's 100K then she should be protecting them, not the other way around. Does Mel not love any other members of the sins, because he never asked for backup for them. Fact is, she needed back up according to Mel. You guys jump on the train whenever she receives praise, but when its stated that she needs help you guys are nowhere to be found
Which is why she was executed for treason, not Ludoshel or Sariel and Tarmiel who sided with her. I mean think about it- Sariel and Tarmiel help Elizabeth out, but they aren't punished once.
. I'm under the impression you're having more problems with your own English and the messages of your posts than you have with my English or I with yours, cause if you can afford sarcasm, you should recognise it when others use it too and what it's directed at.
