Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[sobreno]

61k for Zel and 60k for Estarossa but these would change exponentially once they unleash their true power.

We will see that but for now, they are officially at that level.

 

[Tragicdeath]

We will see that but for now, they are officially at that level.

I know but is it safe to assume Escanor and Mael have the same base PL? We know for a fact they share the same grace, sunshine, which has 5 x 6 x 30 minutes factor rate.

 

[sobreno]

I know but is it safe to assume Escanor and Mael have the same base PL? We know for a fact they share the same grace, sunshine, which has 5 x 6 x 30 minutes factor rate.

Yes.

 

[TarXan]

Ludoshel in my opinion should be higher. 70k/equivalent to the masters (or maybe even Zeldris but that's a maybe not tbh).

Ludociel’s magic power barely did anything to Zeldris tho

70k is a bit far fetched, I think he’s 60k to 65k

 

[sobreno]

Ludociel’s magic power barely did anything to Zeldris tho

70k is a bit far fetched, I think he’s 60k to 65k

Yep, he is in the 60K range like Zeldoris and Estarossa.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Ludociel’s magic power barely did anything to Zeldris tho

70k is a bit far fetched, I think he’s 60k to 65k

And Zeldris magic did nothing to Ludoshel - he effortlessly blocked it, and that's with the possibility that Zeldris might have used the Demon King's magic in the attack.

I don't know why people are so surprised that neither opposition did that much against each other. A high-tier Goddess should be the equivalent to a high-tier demon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2018 ---

Zeldoris and Estarossa are in the 60K range, so nope.

Yep, he is in the 60K range like Zeldoris and Estarossa.

Estarossa probably hiding his true power - so I won't comment beyond him at 60k.
Zeldoris base is 60k, 2nd mark + DK's power puts him much higher.

The Strongest Archangel (High-tier Goddess) should roughly be the equivalent to one of the highest-tiered demons. Hence why I say Ludoshel should be equal to Zeldoris - unless he uses the DK's power, but then we don't know how strong that fraction truly is, so its debatable.

 

[sobreno]

And Zeldris magic did nothing to Ludoshel - he effortlessly blocked it, and that's with the possibility that Zeldris might have used the Demon King's magic in the attack.

I don't know why people are so surprised that neither opposition did that much against each other. A high-tier Goddess should be the equivalent to a high-tier demon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2018 ---

Estarossa probably hiding his true power - so I won't comment beyond him at 60k.
Zeldoris base is 60k, 2nd mark + DK's power puts him much higher.

The Strongest Archangel (High-tier Goddess) should roughly be the equivalent to one of the highest-tiered demons. Hence why I say Ludoshel should be equal to Zeldoris - unless he uses the DK's power, but then we don't know how strong that fraction truly is, so its debatable.

Probably, you are right but for now, it is safe to say that they are on 60K range until further confirmation.

 

[TarXan]

And Zeldris magic did nothing to Ludoshel - he effortlessly blocked it, and that's with the possibility that Zeldris might have used the Demon King's magic in the attack.

I don't know why people are so surprised that neither opposition did that much against each other. A high-tier Goddess should be the equivalent to a high-tier demon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2018 ---

Estarossa probably hiding his true power - so I won't comment beyond him at 60k.
Zeldoris base is 60k, 2nd mark + DK's power puts him much higher.

The Strongest Archangel (High-tier Goddess) should roughly be the equivalent to one of the highest-tiered demons. Hence why I say Ludoshel should be equal to Zeldoris - unless he uses the DK's power, but then we don't know how strong that fraction truly is, so its debatable.

Uhhh there’s a massive difference between blocking an attack with a barrier & just straight up taking in point blank without receiving damage

Ludociel’s blast was immense but Zeldris tanked it

I don’t thinkso the Demons were able to hold their own against the alliance

 

[OtakuFreak]

Uhhh there’s a massive difference between blocking an attack with a barrier & just straight up taking in point blank without receiving damage

Ludociel’s blast was immense but Zeldris tanked it

I don’t thinkso the Demons were able to hold their own against the alliance

Ludoshel still effortlessly blocked it - and the context matters here, he was protecting people other than himself.

Demons held their own against the alliance because specific events weakened Stigma and strengthened the demons.

 

[sobreno]

Ludoshel still effortlessly blocked it - and the context matters here, he was protecting people other than himself.

Demons held their own against the alliance because specific events weakened Stigma and strengthened the demons.

It is the Demons that were the cause of those events, so it is in their books of merit.

 

[OtakuFreak]

It is the Demons that were the cause of those events, so it is in their books of merit.

Not all were demons.

 

[sobreno]

Not all were demons.

Like?

 

[OtakuFreak]

Like?

Gloxinia and Dolor's betrayal. Whilst demons had an influence the ULTIMATE decision was on them.

Gods cursing Goddess Elizabeth and Meliodas. SD indirectly weakened her alliance.

Elizabeth allowing Monspiet and Derriere to live + Ludoshel refusing to help her.

Nerobasta allowing the gate to be transformed - she could've stopped it but didn't.

etc etc

 

[sobreno]

Gloxinia and Dolor's betrayal. Whilst demons had an influence the ULTIMATE decision was on them.

Gods cursing Goddess Elizabeth and Meliodas. SD indirectly weakened her alliance.

Elizabeth allowing Monspiet and Derriere to live + Ludoshel refusing to help her.

Nerobasta allowing the gate to be transformed

etc etc

Well, they don't have a choice, Zeldoris said: " join us or die ". They choose to live and join them. That is a good strategy point on the Demons part.

They had Meliodas ( a Demon ) for them, so that is fair where there is zero Goddess on the Demon army. Besides, no one can kill him ( in the Demon Army ) besides the Gods, so it was the only way to put Meliodas down for good.

Nerobasta was controlled by Gowther ( a Demon ), so once again, it is on their merit.

Agree on the Elizabeth part but guess what? It is the Goddess's fault to have a pacifist in their rank inside a Holy War of death against the Demons.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Well, they don't have a choice, Zeldoris said: " join us or die ". They choose to live and join them. That is a good strategy point on the Demons part.

They had Meliodas ( a Demon ) for them, so that is fair where there is zero Goddess on the Demon army. Besides, no one can kill him ( in the Demon Army ) besides the Gods, so it was the only way to put Meliodas down for good.

Nerobasta was controlled by Gowther ( a Demon ), so once again, it is on their merit.

Agree on the Elizabeth part but guess what? It is the Goddess's fault to have a pacifist in their rank inside a Holy War of death against the Demons.

Dolor would've ascertained death if he declined. Gloxinia wouldn't have. Even if they both chose death they wouldn't have strengthened the demon army whilst weakening the Goddesses. It was their decision to ultimately join the demons, death was a choice (or staying with the Goddesses was Gloxinia's choice) for both of them.

Killing Meliodas and Elizabeth still weakened the alliance from the SD's perspective (tho it was purely beneficial for the demons).

Nerobasta wasn't controlled for the entire duration - only at the start, She had an opportunity herself to physically stop them, but she was too much of a coward to do so.

Yeah, it is the Goddesses fault for allowing Elizabeth on the battlefield. Eventhough she contributed in many ways - she indirectly crippled the war effort by allowing the enemy to live and potentially return to the battlefield against the Goddesses. Who's fault is it? I'd place it on the Supreme Deity - maybe she should've been very strict with Elizabeth and told her to stay in the celestial realm so her pacifistic ways wouldn't disrupt the war effort. Or even directly interrupted the fight after Indura and tell everybody to eliminate Monspiet/Derriere. I mean, if she directly told them in that moment to kill them then not even Meliodas or Elizabeth can contest such an order.

Goddesses also indirectly fuelled the humans to actively hate them and plan their revenge in the form of murdering their fodder-warriors.(secretly being in alliance with demons was more of a convenience. People like Rou always wanted revenge regardless of the context).

 

[sobreno]

Dolor would've ascertained death if he declined. Gloxinia wouldn't have. Even if they both chose death they wouldn't have strengthened the demon army whilst weakening the Goddesses. It was their decision to ultimately join the demons, death was a choice (or staying with the Goddesses was Gloxinia's choice) for both of them.

Killing Meliodas and Elizabeth still weakened the alliance from the SD's perspective (tho it was purely beneficial for the demons).

Nerobasta wasn't controlled for the entire duration - only at the start, She had an opportunity herself to physically stop them, but she was too much of a coward to do so.

Yeah, it is the Goddesses fault for allowing Elizabeth on the battlefield. Eventhough she contributed in many ways - she indirectly crippled the war effort by allowing the enemy to live and potentially return to the battlefield against the Goddesses. Who's fault is it? I'd place it on the Supreme Deity - maybe she should've been very strict with Elizabeth and told her to stay in the celestial realm so her pacifistic ways wouldn't disrupt the war effort. Or even directly interrupted the fight after Indura and tell everybody to eliminate Monspiet/Derriere. I mean, if she directly told them in that moment to kill them then not even Meliodas or Elizabeth can contest such an order.

Goddesses also indirectly fuelled the humans to actively hate them and plan their revenge in the form of murdering their fodder-warriors.(secretly being in alliance with demons was more of a convenience. People like Rou always wanted revenge regardless of the context).

But they choose to join, which proved that the intimidation from Zeldoris worked in the Demon's favour. He likely didn't need to do that for Gloxinia since he was already full of hatred toward Humans.

Yeah, I agree but the Demons doesn't hide that it was Meliodas's fault ( mainly ) if they lost in this war. And it benefits them that the SD is an idiot that kill her own asset.

SD isn't omniscient, she didn't knew that Elizabeth broke her law when she did that, someone must have informed. The fault is at Elizabeth, she knew the risk and the law ( of her Clan by her own mother ) in this war, yet like an idiot, she chooses to help the enemy, very clever.

True but the Humans would never attack the stigma without the Demons's opening and opportunity. So the Demons indirectly causes that situation in their favours yet again.
Nerobasta can't do anything and she knows it, Gowther can easily blackout her if she does anything stupid, I don't blame her to be afraid in that situation.

 

[OtakuFreak]

But they choose to join, which proved that the intimidation from Zeldoris worked in the Demon's favour. He likely didn't need to do that for Gloxinia since he was already full of hatred toward Humans.

Yeah, I agree but the Demons doesn't hide that it was Meliodas's fault ( mainly ) if they lost in this war. And it benefits them that the SD is an idiot that kill her own asset.

SD isn't omniscient, she didn't knew that Elizabeth broke her law when she did that, someone must have informed. The fault is at Elizabeth, she knew the risk and the law ( of her Clan by her own mother ) in this war, yet like an idiot, she chooses to help the enemy, very clever.

True but the Humans would never attack the stigma without the Demons's opening and opportunity. So the Demons indirectly causes that situation in their favours yet again.
Nerobasta can't do anything and she knows it, Gowther can easily blackout her if she does anything stupid, I don't blame her to be afraid in that situation.

Supreme Deity is Elizabeth's mother, she should have had a sense of her personality and how she would react during a war. She was too lenient on allowing Elizabeth to join the fight and should have placed more restrictions on her or had a close eye on her.

As for Nerobasta. She could have done something, even if it was just to stall for time. Gowther and Mera are mid tier commandment users and like she said, are not pure battle types. We also don't know how specifically strong a divine lance corporal is so she might have been able to handle them (albeit probably die).

I'm just saying that the Goddesses and other races crippled their power and helped the Demons in the long-run. Even if such events had demon interaction, it wasn't 100% their effort.

 

[TarXan]

Ludoshel still effortlessly blocked it - and the context matters here, he was protecting people other than himself.

Demons held their own against the alliance because specific events weakened Stigma and strengthened the demons.

I mean a large portion of Ludociel’s power & fighting style comes from using magic

Zeldris tanked that in 61k form

Ludociel should not be 70k

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2018 ---

Assault Meliodas

Magic - 7k
Strength - 125k
Spirit - 10k

 

[Tragicdeath]

I mean a large portion of Ludociel’s power & fighting style comes from using magic

Zeldris tanked that in 61k form

Ludociel should not be 70k

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2018 ---

Assault Meliodas

Magic - 7k
Strength - 125k
Spirit - 10k

I think he has 142k PL in assault mode.

 

[TarXan]

I think he has 142k PL in assault mode.

That should add up to 142k no ?