You post this so often, that it gets kinda old already...
But yea, if you read my question, you would know that I said "exlduding Flames of Savage Emotion".
In my opinion, the most Base Natsu can beat are Neinhart, Jacob, Brandish, and Ajeel. FDKM Natsu should be able to beat all of them with the exception of August, Irene, and God Serena due to his elemental advantage. As for DF Natsu, I think every member of the Spriggan 12 would lose.
I think similarly. Base Natsu should be able to handle Neinhart, Jacob and Ajeel(I dount about Brandish though, she is hax). FDKM Natsu could probably beat anyone excluding August, Irene, Larcade, Dimaria and (maybe) Brandish. 50/50 about God Serena.
And DF Natsu.. well, I think he can beat anyone except August and maybe Dimaria due to their haxes.
As i understand it, Freed specifically had Laxus go after Wahl because he could cure MBPs, and gave Laxus the runes to trick him into it. Though i suppose it is pretty convenient that someone in Alvarez had that ability. But everything in Alvarez is convenient. Convenient that Ultear could help with Dimaria, convenient that Bisca charged Jupiter at just the right time to save Erza from Azir, convenient that Horologium could save Natsu and Lucy from Transport, convenient that Lucy can rewrite Zeref's masterpiece END and bring Natsu back to life, again, just before Zeref enters Neo Eclipse, i could go on and on and on for pretty much any battle in Alvarez.
Uhuh, and deciding to call it "embarrassing" instead of just "outclassed by Natsu" totally wasnt just a shot at Laxus, right? And how about you calling the guy "completely useless"?
That guy "ran away" from you did he? Conceited much? Ever considered the possibility that he was just busy at the time? Or that he didnt see your post? Or maybe just didnt want to read one of your long ass comments? Or he just got sick of crap like this. Those possibilities seem a lot more plausible than him just "running away cause your points were soooo amazing". And would it have killed you to wait at least a bloody day before calling him out for not replying? Oh, but of course the length of time isnt important, because all you really cared about was insulting him to belittle his argument, like you are trying to do in this very comment.
Who says Mira has never seen Jura use magic? You forgetting that unlike team Natsu, Mirajane and the rest of FT had 3 months training where plenty of things couldve happened. The fact that Mira decided to comment on Jura's power means we have to automatically assume that she knew how powerful Jura was, otherwise her explaining it to Gajeel wouldnt make sense.
Oh, you mean Laxus dodging nukes? Yeah, simple scaling. Its like Mirajane smashing Juliet and Hyne, has Erza done it? No, but she could, cause we can scale her. You can call that stealing feats if you like, but its simply power scaling.
No it wasnt
Everyone is useless compared to natsu.
Dude i was talking about another conversation where he never replied after i pointed out the inconsistency.
And interestingly he has disappeared again. Sigh!
Its weird getting lectured by an obvious biased person
What ever nonsense you applied to maintain jura hype. Do the same for irene dues sema.
Lol. Power scaling
I believe laxus is faster than erza, this i produced right out of the place sun doesnt shine. And now all erza feats can be given laxus.
Fun facts for power scaling. You actually need a stable ground to do that. Not say bs like since laxus is faster than acno because i want him to be and then just give all acno feats to laxus
Yeah you missed all the dots.
You believe in laxus nuke hype right?
You believe laxus can causally kill ajeel right?
You know only person he could one shot. Not kill were individual members of raven tail right.
In other words for you
Gmg Laxus>> flare. One shot
Laxus >>> ajeel. One hit kill causally
You used the word low low diff for 8 springgans. Did you not? Ajeel and those rest 7 springgans get the same treatment. Right?
Now connect the dots.
Replace gmg laxus with current laxus
Replace raven tail with these 8 springgans.
According to you springgans will get much worse treatment.
No it wasnt
Everyone is useless compared to natsu.
Dude i was talking about another conversation where he never replied after i pointed out the inconsistency.
And interestingly he has disappeared again. Sigh!
Its weird getting lectured by an obvious biased person
What ever nonsense you applied to maintain jura hype. Do the same for irene.
Lol. Power scaling
I believe laxus is faster than erza, this i produced right out of the place sun doesnt shine. And now all erza feats can be given laxus.
Fun facts for power scaling. You actually need a stable ground to do that. Not say bs like since laxus is faster than acno because i want him to be and then just give all acno feats to laxus
Except you didnt call Laxus useless compared to Natsu, you said he was completely useless in this war.
Ye, i know you were talking about another argument. And lol at "interestingly he disappeared" couldnt just be cause he had stuff to do or something right? It has to be cause he couldnt reply to the "inconsistency" you pointed out? Ha, like i said, conceited.
Is it weird? Shouldnt be any weirder than any other time i've attempted to lecture you.
Why should i argue your case for you? I dont even know what your argument with MLG Bradman was about, but i do know that Mira explained Jura's strength to Gajeel, so logically she has knowledge of it.
Ha, you really love to compare Laxus to Acnologia dont you?
Blitzing Wahl while dying of MBPs>blitzing Ajeel who still managed to block the attack.
Landing a hit on super-powered Acnologia with 6 DS on your side>>Landing a hit on Eileen with Wendy on your side.
I have plenty of ground to stand on.
Of course this is just my opinion, what else did you expect? I witnessed events and they formed my opinion.
I'm not Hiro Mashima, unless it's something that blatantly happened in canon, anything I say is purely opinion.
As for the Raven Tail comparison, that was in a competition, of course he wasn't going to try and kill or severely injure them. Against Ajeel however, he was trying to save Makarov, his father, and Natsu and co. So yeah, the difference in power is logical.
Are you really just going to use that as an argument? Going by that logic there's no point in the rankings at all.
Besides, pretty much all of the Spriggan fights have had plot/PIS in them, Ishgar would have got curbed in a majority of battles if the Spriggans had been smart. To do these rankings fairly you have to analyse feats, determine whether any of them are suspect and then go from there.
POF is somewhat different to this, however there are clearly varying degrees. Savage Emotions is at the top of this by far, followed by Erza beating Kyoka, and then probably the Deus Sema incident. Erza did require POF to break Deus Sema, but she also had every bone in her body broken moments before. Thus, at least to me, since Laxus/Gildarts > broken-bones Erza, they should both be able to break Deus Sema. I also want to note that the manga said Erza had "Makarov's power", so it could be argued Erza was actually just amped with residual power like Natsu earlier in the arc (only nowhere near as powerful as Igneel's MP >>> Makarov's MP).
No its not impressive. Because with mbp laxus shouldnt have magic at all. But interestingly his mp wasnt being effected by it at all. His organs were somehow damaged. So basically plot forcing a victory. Again werid you will use earn here. That is like saying erza earned her victory against koyoka.
So being able to fight a Spriggan who is immune to your element whilst you're half-dying isn't impressive?
Are you really trying to say MBP's weren't affecting Laxus' Magic Power? Because if so, you're flat out wrong here. The entire point of MBP's is that they consume the Ethernano inside a mage. Hell, Wahl even says:
Also stop being so picky about the word earned. Me saying "they earned it" was clearly my opinion.
You have a reputable person who implied it. Before that natsu was shiting himself looking at brandish. Why is this? Do you still think brandish >>> natsu.
Ajeel called august insane after that.
His god complex wasnt even dented a little bit.
I mean, Brandish is pretty much confirmed to be able to organ burst Natsu... that said in a power rating, no, Natsu is stronger. With this being said, I don't get your point here. Natsu and co. were shitting themselves purely because of her MP, on the other hand Ajeel shat himself when the nuke was about to hit and August felt it was deadly enough to intervene.
And LMFAO at trying to use Ajeel to invalidate what August said. This might genuinely be the strangest argument I've actually seen on MH. Let me ask you, why would August lie about Laxus one-shotting Ajeel? He is the commander of the Spriggans, he doesn't have anything to gain by needlessly cautioning his own comrade and hyping the enemy. Likewise, why the hell would you trust what Ajeel said? You yourself admit that he has a god complex, and no one with a god complex is going to admit they almost got one-shotted/killed by someone they saw as fodder.
I think I should remind you that Ajeel even said he'd solo Ishgar ffs.
Even without these traits, Ajeel is clearly not a good source to draw info from in this scenario since August has a better knowledge of magic. Why should we listen to the overconfident idiot who thought he could solo Ishgar when the Magic King thought he was going to be severely injured/killed?
Oh, and congrats btw, you killed your own argument with that last sentence. You've basically admitted that Ajeel's god complex is so severe that almost being killed/severely injured didn't impact it. Thus, we shouldn't take his word over August's.
And of course to understand what this actually means. Laxus only even could one shot one of his enemies in the entire series. That is without killing them. That was individual member of raven tail. You honestly think ajeel or any springgans are so below laxus that he could do worse to them which he couldnt to raven tail members. And a causal hit didnt kill any members. Yet here he is supposed to be able to kill them.
As I pointed out above, the scenarios between Raven Tail and Ajeel are completely different. Against Raven Tail it was just a competition, yes they were enemies of Fairy Tail, but they weren't outright threatening to kill anyone during their fight. Ajeel on the other hand was threatening Laxus' family and was about to cover them with a sand wave, thus he dropped a nuke on them.
Also why bring up Raven Tail from the pre-skip? Everyone had a ridiculous growth in the one-year-timeskip, pre-skip is almost always irrelevant now.
You mean Irene? Sure, she has no reason to lie, problem is that her Deus Sema hype was instantly destroyed once a broken-bones Erza destroyed it. Besides, I'm skeptical that any human has even tried to destroy Deus Sema in mid-air like Erza did, since who jumps towards a meteor that's about to crash down?
Also, the Spriggans in general tend to hype up their ultimate moves only for them to get instantly de-hyped. Look at Bradman, DiMaria and Invel. Bradman's so called "ultimate curse" was swam out of by base Gajeel, DiMaria was so confident that Age Seal was unbeatable when we now know Ultear and E.N.D can interfere with it, and Invel hyped up his Kamui only to have it smashed to pieces.
And why are you bringing in zeref here. Unless you think gildart is weaker than jellal. Or you think zeref might not know that irene will go after erza.
Dude... are you purposefully just ignoring what I've said in previous posts? You even argued against me about this, stop playing dumb.
I brought Zeref up because his statement suggests/hints that Laxus and Jellal are on the level, at the very least in terms of speed. As for why he didn't mention Gildarts, Gildarts doesn't have any speed enhancing spells like Meteor and Lightning Body, so it's not surprising that he expected Jellal or Laxus to arrive first.
By the way, trying to discount the hype Zeref gave Laxus is an incredibly bad argument because Zeref quite clearly knows a lot about the main Ishgar mages. Hell, Invel knew Gray's entire life story and August knew about Jellal's past, so Zeref knowing the combat ability of Jellal and Laxus isn't outlandish at all.
And about Erza/Irene, what are you even asking here? They were never involved in his statement and I'm fairly certain I never brought them up here, so why are you asking about them in relation to Zeref?
Ajeel thought of the running gangs as fodder. You think he used his second strongest attack there. Lol
That is as impressive as kagura taking out wahl missles.
Even ignoring the argument of Sands of Death being Ajeel's second strongest move, to compare Sands of Death to Wahl's nameless missile barrage is ludicrous. Named attacks are always more powerful than nameless attacks if the characters are even close to comparable.
As for the argument about it being Ajeel's second strongest move, it's due to the colossal AoE and the nature of the sand. Had Makarov and co. been covered it would have drained the moisture out of them. I also do want to note that even though Ajeel saw them as fodder, he was fully intent on killing them before they escaped, so him stepping up his game isn't outlandish. Besides, other than Sand World, what else would top it?
Natsu faught alot
And then he died
And then he got up took fh zeref
You know how he did that. Pof
That is it
Gildart can never do it
Laxus can never dream of it
Or are you ready to say that gray can also do the savage flame level attack. Because we already saw him being equal to natsu
Correction, what let Natsu pull of Savage Emotions was the biggest case of POF in Fairy Tail by a long shot. Also, you say that he got up and beat FH Zeref as if he did that with a massive hole in his chest, Lucy re-writing the book healed him.
If Gildarts and Laxus got that amount of POF, maybe they could do that, but using Savage Emotions as an argument to downplay them is horrendous because Savage Emotions made no sense. It was completely anomalous.
That what happened with erza. She was tripping on pof that how she did
Here you are ignoring pof. So you can just say look erza is broken. And she did it. So obviously laxus should be able it to do it too.
And its not rock. Its a magical rock. Its durability depends on irene mp. Just like erza swords. Or igneel durablity depends on igneel mp.
Your entire arguments ignore pof for erza. Thus dehyping dues sema.
I'm ignoring POF? The above says otherwise. Also, I'm de-hyping in-mid-air Deus Sema, I don't doubt it's destructive power when it lands, but pretending it's some indestructible death rock is wanking it. We've clearly seen that someone with POF/was amped easily cut through it despite having ever bone in her body broken (bar her right arm). Gildarts, a man who specializes in destroying stuff, and Laxus, who's lightning is destructive, should be able to destroy it.
If you disagree with this, fair enough, it is just my opinion and we do seem to have different ways of ranking things, but if that's the case stop bringing this up because you're not going to convince me to change my mind.
Nope, because Savage Emotions is the biggest POF BS power up in the manga. Had regular base Natsu beat FH Zeref then I would agree, but he had an immense POF boost that hasn't been matched as of yet.
Erza hype! Were you sleeping when irene was shitting bricks when erza just destroyed a rock. You probably were in awe of august sleeping face when he implied nuke could do something.
Again you show your bais. Where is irene in the zeref and august hype statement. Why did you not include when did irene hype her.
Instead of you accusing me of bias, how about actually showing me the panel of Irene hyping Erza? My previous statement on this was me saying that I don't remember Erza being hyped and asking you for a panel. Once again, show me the panel of Irene hyping Erza. Defend your argument instead of being rude.
I am ready for inference sure. For both sides. Unlike you i wont just give all benefit of doubts to laxus and take all from the other side.
For example you ready to make up things like collision point dues sema is not as worse as the explosion released after it.
But refuse to even talk.about that wahl only lost because of lightening weakeness.
LMAO. You know that last part is completely false because I literally said I forgot Wahl was weak to lightning.
"I did forget about Wahl being weak to lightning, so my bad there.
About Wahl having PIS though... all of the Spriggans did, and some to a more stupid extent. At the end of the day, my point is that Laxus had to be half-dead and suffering MBP attacks for Wahl to give him trouble, and even then Laxus was contending amazingly well."
I'm genuinely amazed that your being this ingenuous. Calling me biased when your blatantly ignoring my arguments and statements is grade A comedy.
As for saying I'm giving Laxus the benefit of the doubt, I am as far as hype goes, as the hype comes from credible sources that have no reason to lie. On the other hand, you won't even show me a scan of Irene hyping Erza, and yet you say I'm taking hype away from her. And if you're complaining about how I'm analyzing their feats I don't understand, I've openly said that Red Lightning was an asspull, likewise how Erza smashing Deus Sema was an asspull. The difference is about detail, Red Lightning was at least hinted to have odd properties about it given how Wahl couldn't analyse before he died. On the other hand, Erza was hinted to have "Makarov's power"/POF.
Oh, and about the Deus Sema point, the dangerous part of Deus Sema is the blast wave. Now, if the Meteor lands on you on the ground then yes that's awful because you're getting hit by the object + blast wave. However, if you slice it in mid-air it won't be that bad as a blast wave won't be unleashed.
Stop arguing about the term "earned". I've said plenty enough that they earned it IN MY OPINION.
I am not Hiro Mashima, anything I say that isn't blatantly canon is my opinion. Now stop complaining about word choice and actually defend your own points.
As I said above, Ajeel was the one to dismiss this hype.
You know, the same Ajeel that thought he could solo Ishgar and easily beat team Natsu. Dude has an ego the size of a planet. Him dismissing that hype is clearly him displaying his massive god complex.
Seriously, why are you dismissing August's word when he's a magical genius and has nothing to gain from lying?
Yup, that's why he was contending with a Spriggan 12 member despite being MBP riddled and having attacks throughout their fight. That's why after this he went on to beat a Historia of Hades in Hargeon only hours later.
I don't even like Laxus but your downplay of him is awful.
'Let me give you a question: if broken bones Erza can destroy Deus Sema, why can't Laxus or Gildarts?'
Depends
If wrecked natsu can defeat zeref with infinit mp. Why cant erza or gray?
The worst part of Deus Sema is if you get hit at the point where it touches the ground, as you're not only getting hit by the object, but you're at the epicenter of the blast wave. But in mid-air hitting Deus Sema won't cause a blast wave and, so long as you have sufficient force, you can cut through it.
This being said, this doesn't even matter, as both Gildarts and Laxus can destroy it from a range, they don't need to get close.
1) irene laughs at his mp. But i am not suprised you did not mention her. Beside his magic nullifies magic. And also this attack did nothing to him. In other words august doesnt give a sht about gildart magic. Probably didnt even try to stop it. He never surpassed natsu heat lol. Yes and apparently so did brandish
Irene and August are said to be equals and both have enough MP to affect the entire country of Fiore. Irene isn't laughing at August's MP, and vice-versa. Suggesting anything more is wank, regardless of which side. That said, I feel I should remind you that it was Irene who backed off when August stood up against her.
Gildarts' attack did nothing?
August nullified it after he got cubed, had nullifying not been part of his magic the fight might have ended there.
And yes, August did surpass Natsu's heat resistance as he couldn't negate the full extent of it.
Not sure what you're trying to say or what you're asking for with the Brandish part of your statement.
2) not its not just a rock. Unless you think aconologia arm is just flesh and bones. Thus can easily be hacked by a metal. Do you think bluenote can stop dues sema as well
First off, Laxus and August never met. Second off, no, Gildarts didn't make August shit himself but that's no mark against him because no one but Acno has made August shit himself. Third off, Irene wasn't shitting herself about Erza's power, it was the fact that her child was busting a meteor despite her condition.
But do you know what Laxus has done? Made Ajeel shit himself despite only using a casual nuke.
Of course this is just my opinion, what else did you expect? I witnessed events and they formed my opinion.
I'm not Hiro Mashima, unless it's something that blatantly happened in canon, anything I say is purely opinion.
As for the Raven Tail comparison, that was in a competition, of course he wasn't going to try and kill or severely injure them. Against Ajeel however, he was trying to save Makarov, his father, and Natsu and co. So yeah, the difference in power is logical.
Are you really just going to use that as an argument? Going by that logic there's no point in the rankings at all.
Besides, pretty much all of the Spriggan fights have had plot/PIS in them, Ishgar would have got curbed in a majority of battles if the Spriggans had been smart. To do these rankings fairly you have to analyse feats, determine whether any of them are suspect and then go from there.
POF is somewhat different to this, however there are clearly varying degrees. Savage Emotions is at the top of this by far, followed by Erza beating Kyoka, and then probably the Deus Sema incident. Erza did require POF to break Deus Sema, but she also had every bone in her body broken moments before. Thus, at least to me, since Laxus/Gildarts > broken-bones Erza, they should both be able to break Deus Sema. I also want to note that the manga said Erza had "Makarov's power", so it could be argued Erza was actually just amped with residual power like Natsu earlier in the arc (only nowhere near as powerful as Igneel's MP >>> Makarov's MP).
Using feats and hype to judge a character is weird? Better tell the rest of MH that, because if that's the case we're all being weird.
So being able to fight a Spriggan who is immune to your element whilst you're half-dying isn't impressive?
Are you really trying to say MBP's weren't affecting Laxus' Magic Power? Because if so, you're flat out wrong here. The entire point of MBP's is that they consume the Ethernano inside a mage. Hell, Wahl even says:
Also stop being so picky about the word earned. Me saying "they earned it" was clearly my opinion.
I mean, Brandish is pretty much confirmed to be able to organ burst Natsu... that said in a power rating, no, Natsu is stronger. With this being said, I don't get your point here. Natsu and co. were shitting themselves purely because of her MP, on the other hand Ajeel shat himself when the nuke was about to hit and August felt it was deadly enough to intervene.
And LMFAO at trying to use Ajeel to invalidate what August said. This might genuinely be the strangest argument I've actually seen on MH. Let me ask you, why would August lie about Laxus one-shotting Ajeel? He is the commander of the Spriggans, he doesn't have anything to gain by needlessly cautioning his own comrade and hyping the enemy. Likewise, why the hell would you trust what Ajeel said? You yourself admit that he has a god complex, and no one with a god complex is going to admit they almost got one-shotted/killed by someone they saw as fodder.
I think I should remind you that Ajeel even said he'd solo Ishgar ffs.
Even without these traits, Ajeel is clearly not a good source to draw info from in this scenario since August has a better knowledge of magic. Why should we listen to the overconfident idiot who thought he could solo Ishgar when the Magic King thought he was going to be severely injured/killed?
Oh, and congrats btw, you killed your own argument with that last sentence. You've basically admitted that Ajeel's god complex is so severe that almost being killed/severely injured didn't impact it. Thus, we shouldn't take his word over August's.
As I pointed out above, the scenarios between Raven Tail and Ajeel are completely different. Against Raven Tail it was just a competition, yes they were enemies of Fairy Tail, but they weren't outright threatening to kill anyone during their fight. Ajeel on the other hand was threatening Laxus' family and was about to cover them with a sand wave, thus he dropped a nuke on them.
Also why bring up Raven Tail from the pre-skip? Everyone had a ridiculous growth in the one-year-timeskip, pre-skip is almost always irrelevant now.
"Reputable member"
You mean Irene? Sure, she has no reason to lie, problem is that her Deus Sema hype was instantly destroyed once a broken-bones Erza destroyed it. Besides, I'm skeptical that any human has even tried to destroy Deus Sema in mid-air like Erza did, since who jumps towards a meteor that's about to crash down?
Also, the Spriggans in general tend to hype up their ultimate moves only for them to get instantly de-hyped. Look at Bradman, DiMaria and Invel. Bradman's so called "ultimate curse" was swam out of by base Gajeel, DiMaria was so confident that Age Seal was unbeatable when we now know Ultear and E.N.D can interfere with it, and Invel hyped up his Kamui only to have it smashed to pieces.
Dude... are you purposefully just ignoring what I've said in previous posts? You even argued against me about this, stop playing dumb.
I brought Zeref up because his statement suggests/hints that Laxus and Jellal are on the level, at the very least in terms of speed. As for why he didn't mention Gildarts, Gildarts doesn't have any speed enhancing spells like Meteor and Lightning Body, so it's not surprising that he expected Jellal or Laxus to arrive first.
By the way, trying to discount the hype Zeref gave Laxus is an incredibly bad argument because Zeref quite clearly knows a lot about the main Ishgar mages. Hell, Invel knew Gray's entire life story and August knew about Jellal's past, so Zeref knowing the combat ability of Jellal and Laxus isn't outlandish at all.
And about Erza/Irene, what are you even asking here? They were never involved in his statement and I'm fairly certain I never brought them up here, so why are you asking about them in relation to Zeref?
Even ignoring the argument of Sands of Death being Ajeel's second strongest move, to compare Sands of Death to Wahl's nameless missile barrage is ludicrous. Named attacks are always more powerful than nameless attacks if the characters are even close to comparable.
As for the argument about it being Ajeel's second strongest move, it's due to the colossal AoE and the nature of the sand. Had Makarov and co. been covered it would have drained the moisture out of them. I also do want to note that even though Ajeel saw them as fodder, he was fully intent on killing them before they escaped, so him stepping up his game isn't outlandish. Besides, other than Sand World, what else would top it?
Correction, what let Natsu pull of Savage Emotions was the biggest case of POF in Fairy Tail by a long shot. Also, you say that he got up and beat FH Zeref as if he did that with a massive hole in his chest, Lucy re-writing the book healed him.
If Gildarts and Laxus got that amount of POF, maybe they could do that, but using Savage Emotions as an argument to downplay them is horrendous because Savage Emotions made no sense. It was completely anomalous.
I'm ignoring POF? The above says otherwise. Also, I'm de-hyping in-mid-air Deus Sema, I don't doubt it's destructive power when it lands, but pretending it's some indestructible death rock is wanking it. We've clearly seen that someone with POF/was amped easily cut through it despite having ever bone in her body broken (bar her right arm). Gildarts, a man who specializes in destroying stuff, and Laxus, who's lightning is destructive, should be able to destroy it.
If you disagree with this, fair enough, it is just my opinion and we do seem to have different ways of ranking things, but if that's the case stop bringing this up because you're not going to convince me to change my mind.
Nope, because Savage Emotions is the biggest POF BS power up in the manga. Had regular base Natsu beat FH Zeref then I would agree, but he had an immense POF boost that hasn't been matched as of yet.
Instead of you accusing me of bias, how about actually showing me the panel of Irene hyping Erza? My previous statement on this was me saying that I don't remember Erza being hyped and asking you for a panel. Once again, show me the panel of Irene hyping Erza. Defend your argument instead of being rude.
LMAO. You know that last part is completely false because I literally said I forgot Wahl was weak to lightning.
"I did forget about Wahl being weak to lightning, so my bad there.
About Wahl having PIS though... all of the Spriggans did, and some to a more stupid extent. At the end of the day, my point is that Laxus had to be half-dead and suffering MBP attacks for Wahl to give him trouble, and even then Laxus was contending amazingly well."
I'm genuinely amazed that your being this ingenuous. Calling me biased when your blatantly ignoring my arguments and statements is grade A comedy.
As for saying I'm giving Laxus the benefit of the doubt, I am as far as hype goes, as the hype comes from credible sources that have no reason to lie. On the other hand, you won't even show me a scan of Irene hyping Erza, and yet you say I'm taking hype away from her. And if you're complaining about how I'm analyzing their feats I don't understand, I've openly said that Red Lightning was an asspull, likewise how Erza smashing Deus Sema was an asspull. The difference is about detail, Red Lightning was at least hinted to have odd properties about it given how Wahl couldn't analyse before he died. On the other hand, Erza was hinted to have "Makarov's power"/POF.
Oh, and about the Deus Sema point, the dangerous part of Deus Sema is the blast wave. Now, if the Meteor lands on you on the ground then yes that's awful because you're getting hit by the object + blast wave. However, if you slice it in mid-air it won't be that bad as a blast wave won't be unleashed.
Stop arguing about the term "earned". I've said plenty enough that they earned it IN MY OPINION.
I am not Hiro Mashima, anything I say that isn't blatantly canon is my opinion. Now stop complaining about word choice and actually defend your own points.
As I said above, Ajeel was the one to dismiss this hype.
You know, the same Ajeel that thought he could solo Ishgar and easily beat team Natsu. Dude has an ego the size of a planet. Him dismissing that hype is clearly him displaying his massive god complex.
Seriously, why are you dismissing August's word when he's a magical genius and has nothing to gain from lying?
No real speed feat? LMFAO, then what are these?
He also blitzes assault Wahl and dodges energy blasts in Lightning Body:
And he's got hype from Zeref as being at least near, if not on par, with Jellal in terms of speed.
His attack power was enough to make Ajeel shit himself and convince August that a casual nuke would have killed/severely injure Ajeel.
Oh, and keep in mind that was a casual nuke and his body was riddled by MBP's.
Yup, that's why he was contending with a Spriggan 12 member despite being MBP riddled and having attacks throughout their fight. That's why after this he went on to beat a Historia of Hades in Hargeon only hours later.
I don't even like Laxus but your downplay of him is awful.
I've already countered this above.
The worst part of Deus Sema is if you get hit at the point where it touches the ground, as you're not only getting hit by the object, but you're at the epicenter of the blast wave. But in mid-air hitting Deus Sema won't cause a blast wave and, so long as you have sufficient force, you can cut through it.
This being said, this doesn't even matter, as both Gildarts and Laxus can destroy it from a range, they don't need to get close.
Irene and August are said to be equals and both have enough MP to affect the entire country of Fiore. Irene isn't laughing at August's MP, and vice-versa. Suggesting anything more is wank, regardless of which side. That said, I feel I should remind you that it was Irene who backed off when August stood up against her.
Gildarts' attack did nothing?
August nullified it after he got cubed, had nullifying not been part of his magic the fight might have ended there.
And yes, August did surpass Natsu's heat resistance as he couldn't negate the full extent of it.
Not sure what you're trying to say or what you're asking for with the Brandish part of your statement.
Magical or not, if broken-bones Erza can smash it then Gildarts and Laxus should easily be able to.
As for the Bluenote question, stop being ridiculous. He's fodder now and has no spells that are destructive enough.
First off, Laxus and August never met. Second off, no, Gildarts didn't make August shit himself but that's no mark against him because no one but Acno has made August shit himself. Third off, Irene wasn't shitting herself about Erza's power, it was the fact that her child was busting a meteor despite her condition.
But do you know what Laxus has done? Made Ajeel shit himself despite only using a casual nuke.
Write less. We cant keep writing essays here.
What the hell
Natsu and erza were both pof at extreme extend. Why are you scaling them out of your ass. Thus saying laxus can do what erza can. But no one can do what natsu does because more bs in natsu case. You cant miss nonsense here lol
No there was no residual power thing. It was like savage emotion power like thing.
Ajeel didnt shit himself. He was mostly surprised that why. Kinda like acno was against irene nuke.
His god complex wasnt hit. Meaning he didnt think much of the nuke.
August just saved him because he is like a grandfather.
Irene hyped erza when she said no human can stop dues sema. Then shat herself when she saw erza doing it. You can see irene expression in the explosion.
Why would there be a difference in getting hit on the head by a meteor. Or a metoer falling on a sword
In raven tail. He even used a roar aginst flare i belive. I might be wrong
Here he was completely causal.
Do you seriously think ajeel is that below laxus? Wow.
If huge plot is involved. Like in laxus vs wahl case. Or erza vs koyoka case. Then you dont.
That is why you have never said
Tartarus erza = mard > blind dump deaf erza> koyoka
Because you know this forced plot thing.
Mbp should effect laxus mp. Right. But somehow he improved 10 times as much as jura. Bs. Either wahl is gmg minerva tier. Or laxus won purely on plot nonsense just like erza did against koyoka.
Why i am.dismissing august hype because i know its not true
Ajeel god complxex wasnt hit. I assure you if he saw aconologia he will lose his god complex.
And the implicatiom of laxus being that able to causally kill ajeel is complete bs. And will never happen in manga.
Laxus is not that above a springgan like gmg laxus was a bove flare. It serves nothing to the plot. It will never be used in manga. Nor will you ever find proof of it in the manga.
Also irene had no reason to lie. Just like wahl has no reason to lie about eitherion. And this how you people normally do it. I have never seen anyone say that tenrou zencrow could destroy bluenote black hole.
When you destroy a spell. You have to over power it. Gildart over powered natsu flames. And crashed them. Gildart over powered bluenote black hole and crashed it. Natsu over power zeref black magic and burnt it. Erza over powered aria magic and cut it. And now pof erza over powered deus sema and destroyed it. Like always in this manga. Aoe will not do shit. You need power. Power that laxus nor gildart has ever shown.
Erza produced after image fighting historia. Look it up
Laxus in lb blitz wahl i know.
Erza in normal armor kinda blitz ajeel. Look it up. It happened right after marin stopped helping ajeel.
So i agree lb laxus > normal armor erza
Souring and red pant would be far above normal erza. Lb laxus has no feats of being faster then red pant erza.
Lol. Do you think zeref was talking about speed. Seriously. Hahahaha
He was mostly talking about strength.
He probably thought gildart will go after august. And irene will go after erza.
Otherwise he will have mentioned gildart too. And no i assure you he was not talking about speed. That just silly.
Dude your downplay of erza is awful. I mean the way you scaled out of nowhere that natsu pof is enough more that no one can do it. Even though he was seriously spent and injured from before. But unfortunately erza pof just fell into that small gap where laxus and gildart can do it.
Again i repeat can zancrow destroy bluenote black hole. That would mean wahl etheriom can destroy dues sema.
Lol. He didnt bother about being cubed because he knew it would do nothing to him. Thus he didnt try to tank it. Otherwise he would have nullified it before.
That magic wasnt fire. Lol
If it was natsu wouldnt negate. He will eat it. It was heat based magic. Natsu tried to negate the heat. If it was fire you would have seen df natsu afterwards.
Brandish in known as nation demolisher.
Why not. Bluenote has that black hole. Dues sena is just a rock thats all, right? Big enough aoe he should be able to do it apprently.
So basically we have ignore irene deus sema hype . We have also have to make things up that basically her child doing these things. Caused her that much shock
Dude this is dehyping.
The entire page was about how awesome feat it was. And you are just gonna. Ignore it.
I said that irene will laugh because you keep on omitting her.
All ajeel moves after sand world were above sand of death. That was when he was actually serious. I like how people use aoe. But for some reason they never say gmg minerva nuke > red lightening.
I try not be rude. But i do tend to go that why when i get bs replies like
Calling sand of world ajeel second strongest move then laughing as if such stupidity is obvious truth.
Damn. Too long.
No need to reply to all te crap
If you want to reply
Just tell me
How are you scalling erza pof and natsu pof. This allowing laxus and gildart to get erza feat.
Do you think dues sema just requires aoe. No actual power to take out. Is this some uniques spell completely different from other spells which have been over powered.
Do you seriously think laxus is that strong compared to ajeel. Why is he that strong. What plot importance does that have.
Except you didnt call Laxus useless compared to Natsu, you said he was completely useless in this war.
Ye, i know you were talking about another argument. And lol at "interestingly he disappeared" couldnt just be cause he had stuff to do or something right? It has to be cause he couldnt reply to the "inconsistency" you pointed out? Ha, like i said, conceited.
Is it weird? Shouldnt be any weirder than any other time i've attempted to lecture you.
Why should i argue your case for you? I dont even know what your argument with MLG Bradman was about, but i do know that Mira explained Jura's strength to Gajeel, so logically she has knowledge of it.
Ha, you really love to compare Laxus to Acnologia dont you?
Blitzing Wahl while dying of MBPs>blitzing Ajeel who still managed to block the attack.
Landing a hit on super-powered Acnologia with 6 DS on your side>>Landing a hit on Eileen with Wendy on your side.
I have plenty of ground to stand on.
My point was laxus wqs useless compared to natsu. Thus why is he usning the word earn.
I dont know what it was. But it would have been nice if he agreed or disagreed.
You have point there.
Because then you wont look completely bias. Thus arguing against you feels more like banging ones head against a wall.
Yes mira only will talk about jura power if she knew it
Just like irene will only say that about deus sema if she knew the strongest human august couldnt stop it.
Because i know you secretly believe laxus can one shot him
Ah
You missed laxus used lb. While erza was in normal armor. You also missed that we have no proof of laxus being slower due mbp.
You missed that aconilogia is pretty much allowing people to hit him. Hell gajeel did it all by himself.
That is not a ground mate. Thats an ocean
In my opinion, the most Base Natsu can beat are Neinhart, Jacob, Brandish, and Ajeel. FDKM Natsu should be able to beat all of them with the exception of August, Irene, and God Serena due to his elemental advantage. As for DF Natsu, I think every member of the Spriggan 12 would lose.
No it wasnt
Everyone is useless compared to natsu.
Dude i was talking about another conversation where he never replied after i pointed out the inconsistency.
And interestingly he has disappeared again. Sigh!
Its weird getting lectured by an obvious biased person
What ever nonsense you applied to maintain jura hype. Do the same for irene dues sema.
Lol. Power scaling
I believe laxus is faster than erza, this i produced right out of the place sun doesnt shine. And now all erza feats can be given laxus.
Fun facts for power scaling. You actually need a stable ground to do that. Not say bs like since laxus is faster than acno because i want him to be and then just give all acno feats to laxus
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Yeah you missed all the dots.
You believe in laxus nuke hype right?
You believe laxus can causally kill ajeel right?
You know only person he could one shot. Not kill were individual members of raven tail right.
In other words for you
Gmg Laxus>> flare. One shot
Laxus >>> ajeel. One hit kill causally
You used the word low low diff for 8 springgans. Did you not? Ajeel and those rest 7 springgans get the same treatment. Right?
Now connect the dots.
Replace gmg laxus with current laxus
Replace raven tail with these 8 springgans.
According to you springgans will get much worse treatment.
Ya u just misinterpreted my whole statements I said extreme low-low diff for all the 8 sprrigans not all spriggan will get oneshotted. U don't have to get killed to get oneshotted. Current laxus is far above GMG laxus the main cast in FT\isghar after the 1 year gap got a huge power boost don't blame me blame hiro for making them that OP. So yes some of spriggan a are get no diff-low diff by laxus if being generous I'll say wahl is the only one becuase he immune to regular lighting
My point was laxus wqs useless compared to natsu. Thus why is he usning the word earn.
I dont know what it was. But it would have been nice if he agreed or disagreed.
You have point there.
Because then you wont look completely bias. Thus arguing against you feels more like banging ones head against a wall.
Yes mira only will talk about jura power if she knew it
Just like irene will only say that about deus sema if she knew the strongest human august couldnt stop it.
Because i know you secretly believe laxus can one shot him
Ah
You missed laxus used lb. While erza was in normal armor. You also missed that we have no proof of laxus being slower due mbp.
You missed that aconilogia is pretty much allowing people to hit him. Hell gajeel did it all by himself.
That is not a ground mate. Thats an ocean
This'll prob be my last comment for now, no sense drawing out this meaningless convo. I'll skip over the first parts too since there isnt much to comment on.
Eileen's comment on Deus Sema was hyperbole, just like August's was when he said no one but his mother can defeat him. Unless you believe Acnologia cant beat August cause he's not his mum. Classic villains wanking their own strength.
If Erza ever does anything relevant in her Flight Armor, i'll factor that into her power level, until then its Nakagami and Benisakura all the way.
MBPs weakened Laxus' health and ate away at his magic power, so much so that Wahl was surprised that he was both alive, and had top tier MP. Would having more MP make LB faster? Imo yes, it would, but if you wanna disagree thats fine. But even Laxus' MBP speed feats still outclass Erza's imo,
Sure, maybe Acno is letting people hit him... but Natsu couldnt(lets just hope there isnt some hidden meaning to that like with August).
But anyway, plenty of nice, firm ground to stand on, more than enough for me to feel comfortable saying Laxus can evade nukes on the scale of the ones Erza dodged.
Edit: Erza didnt doge the nukes in Flight Armor anyway, so it doesnt matter
You post this so often, that it gets kinda old already...
But yea, if you read my question, you would know that I said "exlduding Flames of Savage Emotion".
That could be true. I can't really disagree with you here. Push come to shove, I think Natsu has a chance at beating Jacob (provided he goes all out). Either way, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I wouldn't have wrote essays had you actually defended your points using scans. Actually, more to the point, I wouldn't have wrote essays had you not started shit talking me to other users.
What the hell
Natsu and erza were both pof at extreme extend. Why are you scaling them out of your ass. Thus saying laxus can do what erza can. But no one can do what natsu does because more bs in natsu case. You cant miss nonsense here lol
No there was no residual power thing. It was like savage emotion power like thing.
The POF Natsu got was miles worse than Erza busting the Meteor.
FH Zeref had infinite power and unprecedented control over time and space, he even one-shotted Natsu. Then Lucy re-writes the Book of E.N.D, Natsu gets back up, and he overwhelms FH Zeref in base. Natsu overpowered infinite power. This is clearly major bullshit. But it's worse when you consider Zeref without FH actually tangoed with IgNatsu earlier in the arc. Basically, Flames of Savage Emotions doesn't make any sense at all, it overpowered infinite power and puts base Natsu as above FDKM Natsu and IgNatsu. Keep in mind that Natsu had to train for a full year in order to harness Igneel's remaining power and the FDK mode. Flames of Savage Emotions fucked up Fairy Tail's logic badly.
As for Erza, there IS a possibility of that POF actually being residual power from Makarov, she even asks him for his strength. This being said, I'm not treating that as an excuse or explanation for POF as it isn't 100% canon, I was simply mentioning that it is a possibility.
Even ignoring that though, FH Zeref literally had infinite power and it was overpowered by base Natsu. Deus Sema may have had magic in it, but it wasn't anywhere near the level that FH Zeref had. Therefore, base Natsu overpowering FH Zeref was a worse case of POF.
Ajeel didnt shit himself. He was mostly surprised that why. Kinda like acno was against irene nuke.
His god complex wasnt hit. Meaning he didnt think much of the nuke.
August just saved him because he is like a grandfather.
So you're saying that the King of Magic's observation is discredited because Ajeel, THE MAN WHO THOUGHT HE COULD SOLO ISHGAR, said August was overestimating the enemy/underestimating him? You're taking the opinion of someone who got taken out by Elfman and Lisanna over someone who almost destroyed the whole of Fiore and casually murked Jellal + CS?
Congratulations, this is the stupidest (manga) argument I have ever seen.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I literally see no point in going further than this. I've explained numerous times why you'd be crazy to take Ajeel's point of view over August's here and you won't accept it. If you're not going to budge on something that's so heavily hinted it's basically canon, I see no reason in wasting my time. Especially not when you've shit talked me to other people, acted like a child when I didn't reply within a day, and have been generally ingenuous in your arguments.
Fairy Tail's Strongest Power Couples (I just used the ones hinted in that cover page):
1. Jerza
2. Miraxus
3. Nalu
4. Gruvia
5. Zervis
6. Gale
7. Elfgreen
Anyone else want to try?
Fairy Tail's Strongest Power Couples (I just used the ones hinted in that cover page):
1. Jerza
2. Miraxus
3. Nalu
4. Gruvia
5. Zervis
6. Gale
7. Elfgreen
Anyone else want to try?
This is my last post on the matter, and even then, I'm only taking this up to a certain point.
I wouldn't have wrote essays had you actually defended your points using scans. Actually, more to the point, I wouldn't have wrote essays had you not started shit talking me to other users.
The POF Natsu got was miles worse than Erza busting the Meteor.
FH Zeref had infinite power and unprecedented control over time and space, he even one-shotted Natsu. Then Lucy re-writes the Book of E.N.D, Natsu gets back up, and he overwhelms FH Zeref in base. Natsu overpowered infinite power. This is clearly major bullshit. But it's worse when you consider Zeref without FH actually tangoed with IgNatsu earlier in the arc. Basically, Flames of Savage Emotions doesn't make any sense at all, it overpowered infinite power and puts base Natsu as above FDKM Natsu and IgNatsu. Keep in mind that Natsu had to train for a full year in order to harness Igneel's remaining power and the FDK mode. Flames of Savage Emotions fucked up Fairy Tail's logic badly.
As for Erza, there IS a possibility of that POF actually being residual power from Makarov, she even asks him for his strength. This being said, I'm not treating that as an excuse or explanation for POF as it isn't 100% canon, I was simply mentioning that it is a possibility.
Even ignoring that though, FH Zeref literally had infinite power and it was overpowered by base Natsu. Deus Sema may have had magic in it, but it wasn't anywhere near the level that FH Zeref had. Therefore, base Natsu overpowering FH Zeref was a worse case of POF.
So you're saying that the King of Magic's observation is discredited because Ajeel, THE MAN WHO THOUGHT HE COULD SOLO ISHGAR, said August was overestimating the enemy/underestimating him? You're taking the opinion of someone who got taken out by Elfman and Lisanna over someone who almost destroyed the whole of Fiore and casually murked Jellal + CS?
Congratulations, this is the stupidest (manga) argument I have ever seen.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I literally see no point in going further than this. I've explained numerous times why you'd be crazy to take Ajeel's point of view over August's here and you won't accept it. If you're not going to budge on something that's so heavily hinted it's basically canon, I see no reason in wasting my time. Especially not when you've shit talked me to other people, acted like a child when I didn't reply within a day, and have been generally ingenuous in your arguments.
Dude didnt you read your own comment
The stupidest argument you will ever read is saying since pof natsu bs >> pof erza bs
Thus laxus can do all erza can
But i doubt you can see that
Important part.
The hype was implied was for five seconds. And was forgotten. No one has yet said laxus is second strongest. Hell no one seems to treat laxus any difference from erza still
And of course he has done nothing since wahl. Not even wnough to get a special mention in the manga.
And he might not even do more than cobra now
Basically laxus capabilities will only be known by laxus wankers. Pretty much it.
Says why are ignoring it. While simultaneously ignore deus sema hype.
Of course did not even reply to end part. Which.the only thing i asked.
As expected
Ya u just misinterpreted my whole statements I said extreme low-low diff for all the 8 sprrigans not all spriggan will get oneshotted. U don't have to get killed to get oneshotted. Current laxus is far above GMG laxus the main cast in FT\isghar after the 1 year gap got a huge power boost don't blame me blame hiro for making them that OP. So yes some of spriggan a are get no diff-low diff by laxus if being generous I'll say wahl is the only one becuase he immune to regular lighting
No i did not. If you dont understand what your statements implies its not my problem
You clearly agrees with august. That ajeel can be killed causally by laxus. In a one hit.
You clearly treated all the 8 springgans the same way. Whatever ajeel suffers. All springgans suffers the same.
No, mishma is a doing an ok job. You just are horrible at understanding how he deals with power.
That why you believe
Gmg laxus >> flare
Current laxus >>> ajeel
Gmg laxus > gmg main chars (other than natsu)
Current laxus >>>>> main chars (other than natsu)
Dude didnt you read your own comment
The stupidest argument you will ever read is saying since pof natsu bs >> pof erza bs
Thus laxus can do all erza can
But i doubt you can see that
Important part.
The hype was implied was for five seconds. And was forgotten. No one has yet said laxus is second strongest. Hell no one seems to treat laxus any difference from erza still
And of course he has done nothing since wahl. Not even wnough to get a special mention in the manga.
And he might not even do more than cobra now
Basically laxus capabilities will only be known by laxus wankers. Pretty much it.
Says why are ignoring it. While simultaneously ignore deus sema hype.
Of course did not even reply to end part. Which.the only thing i asked.
As expected
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
No i did not. If you dont understand what your statements implies its not my problem
You clearly agrees with august. That ajeel can be killed causally by laxus. In a one hit.
You clearly treated all the 8 springgans the same way. Whatever ajeel suffers. All springgans suffers the same.
No, mishma is a doing an ok job. You just are horrible at understanding how he deals with power.
That why you believe
Gmg laxus >> flare
Current laxus >>> ajeel
Gmg laxus > gmg main chars (other than natsu)
Current laxus >>>>> main chars (other than natsu)
How are u gonna tell me what I'm trying to say? Tf?? I clearly told u what I meant. but ur telling everyone that isn't what I meant? I didn't know u can read people thoughts . Yes i do believe that ajeel gets no diff by laxus that fact that august has to save him and his reaction proves it all. 2. Who said all 8 spriggans are getting oneshotted?? I said no diff -low diff that's isn't the same thing for all spriggans.
Except hiro had some inconsistencies in power levels so ur logic doesn't apply here because current laxus is way above GMG laxus
Fairy Tail's Strongest Power Couples (I just used the ones hinted in that cover page):
1. Jerza
2. Miraxus
3. Nalu
4. Gruvia
5. Zervis
6. Gale
7. Elfgreen
Anyone else want to try?
. Yes i do believe that ajeel gets no diff by laxus that fact that august has to save him and his reaction proves it all. 2. Who said all 8 spriggans are getting oneshotted?? I said no diff -low diff that's isn't the same thing for all spriggans.