Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Firepower]

Jacob wouldn't have lot trouble to defeat Ajeel.

Yes, it's true that Ajeel showed us many more feats than Jacob did since he is the only Spriggan who had two fights. But based on what we've seen from Jacob's magic, Stealth, I'd say he is stronger than Ajeel.

Stealth gives the user the ability to vanish, erase, see and make unseen. In other words:

• He can make himself invisible.
• He can make others invisible (transport them to another place).
• He can see things which can't be seen.
• He can make objects invisible.

All these feats were showed in the fight against Lucy and Natsu. The only feat which is based on hype is his ability to kill people when they're vanished. But even if this hype is fake, I still think Jacob is stronger.

How could Ajeel attack Jacob when he is invisible? The only thing that can undo his camouflage is Light Magic, which was showed by Leo. Ajeel's Sand Magic wouldn't do a thing against his camouflage. And when Jacob is invisible, he could easily kill Ajeel.

Even though Transport won't give him the ability to kill its prisoners, he can still do things with them he wish. Transport is a very dangerous spell.

This feats aren't hype, they're real. Jacob just didn't use his magic the way he could use it. The fight against Natsu and Lucy was just awful and unbelievable. Jacob's magic is really hax, which is a fact.

Oh no worries about that. Have you seen the size of his attack in Alvarez as he was going after ft? Also Ajeel has the huge sandstorm that he uses to hide himself too. So invisibility is equal. But if Ajeel can feel out his sand to pinpoint where Jacob is then stealth is useless. Plus let's not forget regular swords don't cut Ajeel. Jacob hasn't proven to have a dagger of some kind of element that is capable of piercing through Ajeel. All Jacob has that gives him the win is is death teleport thing. Without it he is in deep shit. Very deep smelly doodoo.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Jacob wouldn't have lot trouble to defeat Ajeel.

Yes, it's true that Ajeel showed us many more feats than Jacob did since he is the only Spriggan who had two fights. But based on what we've seen from Jacob's magic, Stealth, I'd say he is stronger than Ajeel.

Stealth gives the user the ability to vanish, erase, see and make unseen. In other words:

• He can make himself invisible.
• He can make others invisible (transport them to another place).
• He can see things which can't be seen.
• He can make objects invisible.

All these feats were showed in the fight against Lucy and Natsu. The only feat which is based on hype is his ability to kill people when they're vanished. But even if this hype is fake, I still think Jacob is stronger.

How could Ajeel attack Jacob when he is invisible? The only thing that can undo his camouflage is Light Magic, which was showed by Leo. Ajeel's Sand Magic wouldn't do a thing against his camouflage. And when Jacob is invisible, he could easily kill Ajeel.

Even though Transport won't give him the ability to kill its prisoners, he can still do things with them he wish. Transport is a very dangerous spell.

This feats aren't hype, they're real. Jacob just didn't use his magic the way he could use it. The fight against Natsu and Lucy was just awful and unbelievable. Jacob's magic is really hax, which is a fact.

His threat to kill people in his "transport" was what I was referring to as hype. Ajeel can use Sand World to decrease Jacob's visibility as well. Literally, the only thing Jacob has that is effective is stealth and that does nothing to his power, defense, or speed. He is useless. Not to mention, he has low intelligence. Ajeel could hide in his sand and wait for Jacob to run out of MP while he is in his stealth. Plus, Ajeel is intangible to Jacob's knives + CQC, which is all he has. I really can't see Jacob winning with his feats. Ajeel wins in power, speed, versatility, and intelligence. I can't say defense because I don't know Jacob's durability as he was taken out by Natsu to be fair.

 

[BluePegasus]

His threat to kill people in his "transport" was what I was referring to as hype. Ajeel can use Sand World to decrease Jacob's visibility as well. Literally, the only thing Jacob has that is effective is stealth and that does nothing to his power, defense, or speed. He is useless. Not to mention, he has low intelligence. Ajeel could hide in his sand and wait for Jacob to run out of MP while he is in his stealth. Plus, Ajeel is intangible to Jacob's knives + CQC, which is all he has. I really can't see Jacob winning with his feats. Ajeel wins in power, speed, versatility, and intelligence. I can't say defense because I don't know Jacob's durability as he was taken out by Natsu to be fair.

How do you know that Ajeel can decrease his visibility with Sand World? I don't think a Spriggan would be so easy to counter. I agree with you that his intelligence is really low, because this is the reason why he lost to Natsu and Lucy. But Ajeel's intelligence isn't as high as Lucy's. It won't be easy to counter Jacob's Stealth. He is a Spriggan, so I don't think he'll 'run out' of magic power soon. He probably will find Ajeel and kill him.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

How do you know that Ajeel can decrease his visibility with Sand World? I don't think a Spriggan would be so easy to counter. I agree with you that his intelligence is really low, because this is the reason why he lost to Natsu and Lucy. But Ajeel's intelligence isn't as high as Lucy's. It won't be easy to counter Jacob's Stealth. He is a Spriggan, so I don't think he'll 'run out' of magic power soon. He probably will find Ajeel and kill him.

Considering the majority of the people like Fairy Tail mages and Spriggans couldn't see anything, I would think Jacob couldn't either.

Spoiler

Since you said it wouldn't be easy to counter a Spriggan like Jacob, then I guess it goes both ways. If anything it is harder to counter Ajeel since he technically has invisibility + intangibility, while Jacob only has invisibility.

 

[Firepower]

Plus Ajeel knew where ft members were because he said the sand tells so much, meaning that he can feel where they are because of the sand they are standing on. So stealth wouldn't be very useful against Ajeel. Without his transport magic he is not as good, but with it Jacob wins due to it being a hax.

 

[Crimson Ice]

lol You're one to talk. The only evidence you have of Natsu being as strong as Erza since the Pahntom arc is that she said that he is as strong as her, even though he keeps getting whooped by her. Before the phantom arc was the Galuna island arc where Natsu fought Zalty which was actually Ultear in disguise. Erza was not around to see his fight and it wasn't even anything special. You tell me why Erza believes in the next arc that Natsu is as strong as her? Because he's always been scared of her because she would beat his ass when he's acting up. If you ask me that's just family love she got for Natsu believing he can do things. Why did I bring up the Edolas arc? That is still fresh in my mind after watching the anime recently, and when Natsu and Gray saw her and dressed in Knightwalker's clothes they were both stunned that the titania lost. That's one example. Second example would be how Erza decided to fight all 100 monsters in the gmg. Everyone was shocked yet, Laxus Gray and Natsu believed she could do it. If you read the mood at the time that seemed almost impossible. Laxus said something about just watch and enjoy, acknowledging her, not being the same guy who used to be mean before getting kicked out of ft.

You cannot fill in the holes of the unknown with wishful thinking. No one knew that Erza has fought Bacchus many times. You make claims that it was long ago, but no one knows that. Stop making stuff up. When was Erza ever in a shit tier? She was dominant over Natsu and Gray since they were small kids. Where do you come up with this stuff?

You need to see and feel what's going on in the story. During the gmg when Bacchus was first introduced, Erza made it clear that he is strong knowing how many times they fought she can guage that. She didn't talk like "Oh it's you I haven't seen you for a long time. Wow!" Okay see how the story is going. Stomping chariots is no feat, but the way he did it with such ease and power did surprise Erza on how much stronger he got. Not because he got much better yet is far weaker than her. No one gets surprised by that unless it's a kid that they haven't seen in a while that got stronger, like if it were Wendy that Srza hasn't seen for a while. For someone to be a close rival before and seeing how easily he did something that shocks her that means something. But you talk like Erza can guage Natsu who she is usually on jobs with, yet is busy fighting someone else that she isn't there to see Natsu. Here she is gauging Bacchus by what he is doing. I thought you said Erza didn't need to actually fight Natsu to know his strength.

When your own metal armor is breaking off because of your speed and power on impact, you yourself should be able to understand the power of those attacks and how strong lizard armor is, from how Bacchus armor was breaking into pieces. I do consider Elfman at least above average, but nothing spectacular, but his lizard armor defense was not mid tier defense. How strong is lizard armor? I don't know but obviously much stronger than regular metal that wasn't even being hit, yet shattered into pieces. All guilds were watching the fight between Elfman and Bacchus. Erza never said that she surpassed him. She was watching the fight knowing what Elfman was up against. No one though Elfman had a chance because of Erza's past with Bacchus. Gray was watching the fight and said he can see why Erza had a hard time in their fights. Gray can currently see his abilities. He got shocked to hear that he wasn't even near his full strength yet because he didn't drink at all. You did not hear Erza saying anything like,"Worry not, those fights with Bacchus were long ago. It wouldn't be the same today." Nothing like that was said so as to prove that Elfman got stronger. Nothing like that. Instead she was surprised by his speed and movement, seeing how he flew past Elfman so quickly yet land 7 hits in that one go. Mira did say that lizard armor is good against hand to hand combat. Therefore if someone doesn't have armor stronger than the one that Bacchus wears than they would get hurt. I wouldn't say Bacchus lacks physical strength. He was tossing Elfman around pretty easily and effortlessly before drinking to go full strength. Don't forget along with his speed and power, he is one of the smartest fighters and hardest to predict. Bacchus is a true s class Mage who at that time was stronger than the three ds mages you mentioned.

You tell me what is better evidence. Erza saying Natsu is as strong as her during the phantom arc, or Erza actually fighting Bacchus and can say that they are even? Give an answer without filling the unknown with wishful thinking.

So they only evidence I have of them being equal is a good reliable characters statement while you have nothing? Like I said whenever he gets whooped is a gag fight, don't repeat this point unless you address it mattering despite being a gag feat. So what if the fight between Natsu and Zalty wasn't much? Neither was Erza's fight, Ultear that point would beat both of them. Erza said it herself and had no reason to lie but you don't agree with it but that helps your argument. The Knighwalker part is irrelevant that doesn't prove she is way stronger than Natsu it proves that they both had a lot of fo faith in her nor I am debating that they were equal during Edolas. All of what you said doesn't disprove Natsu being weaker than Erza during the Phantom arc.


You're implying that fought all the time before Tenrou which was most likely not the case, one Lucy joined Natsu and Gray were with Erza a lot and would of most likely knew if she was fighting Bacchus. And yes BoS Erza is shit tier are you not reading my post correctly AGAIN? If you were to throw BoS Erza into the manga now she'd lose to the likes of Max. You need to start reading over my posts twice before you reply because I don't want this happening again.

What do you mean? Just because Erza was surprised doesn't mean Bacchus can't be much weaker than her, where did you come up with this nonsense. Erza was surprised because he grew much stronger that doesn't mean he's on her level now. Erza can gauge people and her being surprised means she was simply shocked by his growth, Erza and the guild never treated Bacchus as a major threat and neither did anyone else, the only big threats out of the other guilds were Jura and Kagura. You took one expression from Erza and turned it into some massive false hype.

Again is breaker metal supposed to be super impressive? Elfman had strong armor but nothing implies it could protect him from strikes coming from Jura tier opponents, in fact, Kagura (someone who you claim should be Bacchus level( was straight ripping through Erza's toughest armor. Gray was shocked because he was dominating Elfman without being at full power this doesn't prove he's above Gray, there have been times when a character has been shocked of mad nervous by one but has b beaten them. Like I said you took the minor hype Bacchus got and tried to make it into something major. To imply you need armor to break through Elfman's defense is laughable because any note worthy hand to hand fighter in FT would beat LEfman easily. Bacchus was strong but nowhere near the DS who are all physical fighter and would all beat him.

 

[Firepower]

So they only evidence I have of them being equal is a good reliable characters statement while you have nothing? Like I said whenever he gets whooped is a gag fight, don't repeat this point unless you address it mattering despite being a gag feat. So what if the fight between Natsu and Zalty wasn't much? Neither was Erza's fight, Ultear that point would beat both of them. Erza said it herself and had no reason to lie but you don't agree with it but that helps your argument. The Knighwalker part is irrelevant that doesn't prove she is way stronger than Natsu it proves that they both had a lot of fo faith in her nor I am debating that they were equal during Edolas. All of what you said doesn't disprove Natsu being weaker than Erza during the Phantom arc.


You're implying that fought all the time before Tenrou which was most likely not the case, one Lucy joined Natsu and Gray were with Erza a lot and would of most likely knew if she was fighting Bacchus. And yes BoS Erza is shit tier are you not reading my post correctly AGAIN? If you were to throw BoS Erza into the manga now she'd lose to the likes of Max. You need to start reading over my posts twice before you reply because I don't want this happening again.

What do you mean? Just because Erza was surprised doesn't mean Bacchus can't be much weaker than her, where did you come up with this nonsense. Erza was surprised because he grew much stronger that doesn't mean he's on her level now. Erza can gauge people and her being surprised means she was simply shocked by his growth, Erza and the guild never treated Bacchus as a major threat and neither did anyone else, the only big threats out of the other guilds were Jura and Kagura. You took one expression from Erza and turned it into some massive false hype.

Again is breaker metal supposed to be super impressive? Elfman had strong armor but nothing implies it could protect him from strikes coming from Jura tier opponents, in fact, Kagura (someone who you claim should be Bacchus level( was straight ripping through Erza's toughest armor. Gray was shocked because he was dominating Elfman without being at full power this doesn't prove he's above Gray, there have been times when a character has been shocked of mad nervous by one but has b beaten them. Like I said you took the minor hype Bacchus got and tried to make it into something major. To imply you need armor to break through Elfman's defense is laughable because any note worthy hand to hand fighter in FT would beat LEfman easily. Bacchus was strong but nowhere near the DS who are all physical fighter and would all beat him.

I'll end this right now. I have never read the manga until the the gmg arc, while the anime was on break. Now that I have read the phantom arc there's me re than enough evidence to end this. In the Phantom arc, Natsu fought the guy totomaru, which was a bad matchup becuase he controls fire and was using it to make Natsu punch his own face. After Natsu destroyed the source of the cannon, Gray arrived and froze totomaru, Elfman threw him into the sky. After that Natsu got the shit beaten out of him by Aria, who was toying with Natsu. Erza came to save his ass when Aria got behind him and was about to do the same thing he did when he caught Makarov off guard. That's when Aria said he won't hold back against Erza and took off the blindfold that help his power back. Natsu was standing trying not to get blown away by the sheer power of Aria. Erza went thrusting in and one shot Aria.

Erza took a Jupiter shot before getting there, which put her in a much worse condition than the small stuff totomaru did to Natsu. You cannot use excuses that the guild master Jose said Gajeel was his strongest, which was a complement to Gajeel for capturing Lucy again. The proof was not from words. It was in the fights. After Natsu got saved by Erza, because he was outclassed by phantom's s class Aria, he was even with Gajeel proving that Aria was stronger than Gajeel, and that Erza was very far ahead of Natsu during that arc. Natsu wasn't taken seriously against Aria even while in holding back his power blindfolded. Erza took Aria out in one shot, while Aria gave his best. That ends this discussion that Natsu was not anywhere near the level of Erza that time.

In the gmg, if you watched the anime, you should have seen how Erza's pupils and iris in her eyes were constantly changing in size, showing great concern of how strong Bacchus got. She looked like she shit her pants. But all you can say is Erza said Natsu was as strong as her. Therefore Bacchus did not lag behind Erza. Gray also said he can see why Bacchus is on parr with Erza, and freaked even more when he knew Bacchus was not even trying. You want to talk about the Elfman fight? Bacchus taking it easy, extra easy because he didn't even drink, but he was literally giving one hit at a time which sent Elfman flying into the wall. And each hit sent Elfman flying. Elfman was face down on the ground until he got up and used his lizard armor. Both Bacchus armor and Elfman's armor crumbled as you could see Bacchus purple armor in pieces and Lizard armor scales flying around also. Meaning he broke Elfman's armor. Why do you think Elfman's transformation went away? It's because he got beaten up and couldn't take anymore, the same time Bacchus exhausted himself. Bacchus got up off his knees, said a few words acknowledging Elfman for taking the pain, then he fell laying down from exhaustion. Elfman couldn't even get off his knees. After the fight Elfman was in the infirmary with his whole body in bandages. Mira said that lizard armor is perfect against hand to hand combatants, and also said that Bacchus can break lizard armor, which he did.

So your talk about Natsu having been as strong as Erza since the phantom arc is gone. I've given you a few pieces of evidence that showed Bacchus was still a good match against Erza. All youve said was that her fights with Bacchus were long ago, which is what you wish were true, but have no evidence to back it up. I said he demonstrated great strength, speed and skills, that even now Erza had concern in her eyes showing she still sees he is still up there. That's more evidence to prove he's still a good match against her, than you making up stories claiming it was long ago, and you said Erza was low tier at that time, which she never was because she was always stronger than Natsu and Gray since they were kids. If you don't tap I keep going.

To make you feel better, in this Alvarez arc Natsu showed more than Erza. The past is different.

 

[iDooom]

The funniest part about this thread is that Natsu has yet to show that he's stronger than the likes of Ajeel or Erza. Jacob proved that he was the weakest Spriggan so far by failing to damage Lucy and Loke with repeated attacks. Jacob's invisibility hax isn't particularly powerful or hard to deal with. And Natsu got quite a bit of help from Makarov and Lucy.

Thus far, there isn't any evidence that Natsu's finisher is stronger than red lightning or nakagami. It should be obvious that Natsu's FDKM now isn't the same as the FDKM that he used against Zeref.

So far the Spriggans rank:
Serena/Dimaria/Wahl/Ajeel > Dimaria (no Age Seal) > Jacob

 

[Firepower]

The funniest part about this thread is that Natsu has yet to show that he's stronger than the likes of Ajeel or Erza. Jacob proved that he was the weakest Spriggan so far by failing to damage Lucy and Loke with repeated attacks. Jacob's invisibility hax isn't particularly powerful or hard to deal with. And Natsu got quite a bit of help from Makarov and Lucy.

Thus far, there isn't any evidence that Natsu's finisher is stronger than red lightning or nakagami. It should be obvious that Natsu's FDKM now isn't the same as the FDKM that he used against Zeref.

So far the Spriggans rank:
Serena/Dimaria/Wahl/Ajeel > Dimaria (no Age Seal) > Jacob

Makarov punched Jacob to get him out. He didn't grab him instead. Just like how Lucy kicked him which sent him flying into the tables. That Might mean that Makarov is still weaker than the spriggan. Back to the point. Natsu's attack was very impressive. After being able to requip, and using her water sword she cut Ajeel a few times. Then came the sandstorm for Ajeel to hide. The only attack he hit Erza with was a raining sand dagger attack. After that he grabbed her by the neck and it would have ended there. Jupiter shot helped, and Erza finished him. Both Natsu and Erza had the power to finish their opponents with some help. But seeing as one attack was all it took to badly hurt Erza that makes her look worse.

Jacob was using only punches and kicks, with an invisible whip. Ajeel had sand that was drying Erza while she wasn't able to requip. Raining sand dagger attack, and then held her by the neck which sapped her of energy.

Natsu took punches and kicks and had a very impressive demolition fist. Erza got hit by one magic attack and was down. It can be argued that Ajeel's one attack was stronger. Lucy was able to take Jacob's attacks too. I said before that Erza vs Ajeel was very odd because she usually tanks everything and it is hard to finish her, so for her to be taken out by that alone is odd. Unless all that sand drying thing sapped her strength at the beginning when she wasn't able to requip. If that attack didn't injure her so much I'd agree that Natsu hasn't proven to be there yet.

No one has proven to be stronger than anyone yet. The Jupiter shot gave some good damage. Jacob got punched but wasn't as hurt as Ajeel from the assist. Therefore using his own power to finish Jacob showed more than Erza finishing Ajeel, who took damage from Jupitor as shown in that chapter. Which one is stronger if they fight are not determined yet. But the one that showed more is Natsu. Funny huh?

 

[Crimson Ice]

I'll end this right now. I have never read the manga until the the gmg arc, while the anime was on break. Now that I have read the phantom arc there's me re than enough evidence to end this. In the Phantom arc, Natsu fought the guy totomaru, which was a bad matchup becuase he controls fire and was using it to make Natsu punch his own face. After Natsu destroyed the source of the cannon, Gray arrived and froze totomaru, Elfman threw him into the sky. After that Natsu got the shit beaten out of him by Aria, who was toying with Natsu. Erza came to save his ass when Aria got behind him and was about to do the same thing he did when he caught Makarov off guard. That's when Aria said he won't hold back against Erza and took off the blindfold that help his power back. Natsu was standing trying not to get blown away by the sheer power of Aria. Erza went thrusting in and one shot Aria.

Erza took a Jupiter shot before getting there, which put her in a much worse condition than the small stuff totomaru did to Natsu. You cannot use excuses that the guild master Jose said Gajeel was his strongest, which was a complement to Gajeel for capturing Lucy again. The proof was not from words. It was in the fights. After Natsu got saved by Erza, because he was outclassed by phantom's s class Aria, he was even with Gajeel proving that Aria was stronger than Gajeel, and that Erza was very far ahead of Natsu during that arc. Natsu wasn't taken seriously against Aria even while in holding back his power blindfolded. Erza took Aria out in one shot, while Aria gave his best. That ends this discussion that Natsu was not anywhere near the level of Erza that time.

In the gmg, if you watched the anime, you should have seen how Erza's pupils and iris in her eyes were constantly changing in size, showing great concern of how strong Bacchus got. She looked like she shit her pants. But all you can say is Erza said Natsu was as strong as her. Therefore Bacchus did not lag behind Erza. Gray also said he can see why Bacchus is on parr with Erza, and freaked even more when he knew Bacchus was not even trying. You want to talk about the Elfman fight? Bacchus taking it easy, extra easy because he didn't even drink, but he was literally giving one hit at a time which sent Elfman flying into the wall. And each hit sent Elfman flying. Elfman was face down on the ground until he got up and used his lizard armor. Both Bacchus armor and Elfman's armor crumbled as you could see Bacchus purple armor in pieces and Lizard armor scales flying around also. Meaning he broke Elfman's armor. Why do you think Elfman's transformation went away? It's because he got beaten up and couldn't take anymore, the same time Bacchus exhausted himself. Bacchus got up off his knees, said a few words acknowledging Elfman for taking the pain, then he fell laying down from exhaustion. Elfman couldn't even get off his knees. After the fight Elfman was in the infirmary with his whole body in bandages. Mira said that lizard armor is perfect against hand to hand combatants, and also said that Bacchus can break lizard armor, which he did.

So your talk about Natsu having been as strong as Erza since the phantom arc is gone. I've given you a few pieces of evidence that showed Bacchus was still a good match against Erza. All youve said was that her fights with Bacchus were long ago, which is what you wish were true, but have no evidence to back it up. I said he demonstrated great strength, speed and skills, that even now Erza had concern in her eyes showing she still sees he is still up there. That's more evidence to prove he's still a good match against her, than you making up stories claiming it was long ago, and you said Erza was low tier at that time, which she never was because she was always stronger than Natsu and Gray since they were kids. If you don't tap I keep going.

To make you feel better, in this Alvarez arc Natsu showed more than Erza. The past is different.

You haven't ended a single thing, this is literally you trying to force your opinion on me because of something the AUTHOR said through Erza. Jose calling Gajeel the strongest is valid, you think Jose, someone who pride him and his guild on strength call Gajeel the strongest for just taking Lucy. Why wasn't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You have done nothing but try and force feed me your opinion simply because you can't comprehend Natsu and Erza being on par in the Phantom arc.


Why are you bring up anime filler? You literally start off by saying in the anime, as far I am concerned in the manga Erza showed slight concern a couple of times if you think that is enough to place Bacchus over Gajeel, Gray, Natsu, Sting and Rouge you have a weird way of looking at things.A character statement held more weight than a couple of reactions Gray was shocked, Elfman was getting his ass beat. Again that's all good but a couple of reactions aren't strong enough to say he's above people like that, especially when one of those people one shot him. In fact, this was the same arc when everyone was shitty their briefs over Jura even when Laxus was fighting him and look what happened, a couple of shocked faces isn't going to help especially when Bacchus lost the match everyone was hyping up in. Again you literally just explained to me how Bacchus lost to Elfman, yes I am aware that Elfman only beat him by outlasting him, yes I am aware that Elfman as beaten up, but the point still stands Bacchus lost. when you're saying he's on par with folks like Kagura who casually ripping through the armor the took Jupiter head on, their offensive powers are not even comparable. Mind you Kagura wasn't even going all out. Bacchus didn't perform well enough to say he can hang with the people you're suggesting while he wasn't portrayed as a threat either if Bacchus was as strong as you said Sabertooth would be looked out for him the same way they did Kagura and Jura. Bacchus portrayal and overall feats aren't comparable to the people you placed him with.

What evidence have you shown, you showed a couple of shocked faces? That's some decent portrayal but the arc made it clear the only two big threats outside Saber for FT were Jura and Kagura. YOU HAVE COMPLETELY BEEN IGNORING MY POINT. I SAID ERZA BACK THEN WOULD BE A LOW TIER IN THE GMG ARC. You can claim she was stronger than Natsu and Erza back then, but guess what? I NEVER DENIED THAT. While I only claimed that they were equal to that one arc, like this is another case of you reading my posts carefully. While you also keep brining up anime filler, guess what, THAT IS FILLER .

 

[Firepower]

You haven't ended a single thing, this is literally you trying to force your opinion on me because of something the AUTHOR said through Erza. Jose calling Gajeel the strongest is valid, you think Jose, someone who pride him and his guild on strength call Gajeel the strongest for just taking Lucy. Why wasn't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You have done nothing but try and force feed me your opinion simply because you can't comprehend Natsu and Erza being on par in the Phantom arc.


Why are you bring up anime filler? You literally start off by saying in the anime, as far I am concerned in the manga Erza showed slight concern a couple of times if you think that is enough to place Bacchus over Gajeel, Gray, Natsu, Sting and Rouge you have a weird way of looking at things.A character statement held more weight than a couple of reactions Gray was shocked, Elfman was getting his ass beat. Again that's all good but a couple of reactions aren't strong enough to say he's above people like that, especially when one of those people one shot him. In fact, this was the same arc when everyone was shitty their briefs over Jura even when Laxus was fighting him and look what happened, a couple of shocked faces isn't going to help especially when Bacchus lost the match everyone was hyping up in. Again you literally just explained to me how Bacchus lost to Elfman, yes I am aware that Elfman only beat him by outlasting him, yes I am aware that Elfman as beaten up, but the point still stands Bacchus lost. when you're saying he's on par with folks like Kagura who casually ripping through the armor the took Jupiter head on, their offensive powers are not even comparable. Mind you Kagura wasn't even going all out. Bacchus didn't perform well enough to say he can hang with the people you're suggesting while he wasn't portrayed as a threat either if Bacchus was as strong as you said Sabertooth would be looked out for him the same way they did Kagura and Jura. Bacchus portrayal and overall feats aren't comparable to the people you placed him with.

What evidence have you shown, you showed a couple of shocked faces? That's some decent portrayal but the arc made it clear the only two big threats outside Saber for FT were Jura and Kagura. YOU HAVE COMPLETELY BEEN IGNORING MY POINT. I SAID ERZA BACK THEN WOULD BE A LOW TIER IN THE GMG ARC. You can claim she was stronger than Natsu and Erza back then, but guess what? I NEVER DENIED THAT. While I only claimed that they were equal to that one arc, like this is another case of you reading my posts carefully. While you also keep brining up anime filler, guess what, THAT IS FILLER .

You tell me. Natsu fighting Aria and being made fun of. He didn't take his blindfold off so he wasn't at full power. He didn't put effort against Natsu. Natsu gets saved by Erza. He was getting blown away from Aria's power when he took his blindfold off and was gonna get serious. Erza was too strong for him that she went head on and one shot him. Still hurt from the Jupiter shot, she forced herself to fight Jose. Natsu went on to fight Gajeel in an even fight, proving the shit coming out of Jose's mouth was nothing more than a complement for recapturing Lucy. Words or actions are more important?

You want to talk about my evidence. Your evidence is a guess that it was long ago and that Erza was low tier. That makes no sense. Wishful thinking too.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2016 ---

You haven't ended a single thing, this is literally you trying to force your opinion on me because of something the AUTHOR said through Erza. Jose calling Gajeel the strongest is valid, you think Jose, someone who pride him and his guild on strength call Gajeel the strongest for just taking Lucy. Why wasn't Juvia called the strongest when she knocked out Lucy? You have done nothing but try and force feed me your opinion simply because you can't comprehend Natsu and Erza being on par in the Phantom arc.


Why are you bring up anime filler? You literally start off by saying in the anime, as far I am concerned in the manga Erza showed slight concern a couple of times if you think that is enough to place Bacchus over Gajeel, Gray, Natsu, Sting and Rouge you have a weird way of looking at things.A character statement held more weight than a couple of reactions Gray was shocked, Elfman was getting his ass beat. Again that's all good but a couple of reactions aren't strong enough to say he's above people like that, especially when one of those people one shot him. In fact, this was the same arc when everyone was shitty their briefs over Jura even when Laxus was fighting him and look what happened, a couple of shocked faces isn't going to help especially when Bacchus lost the match everyone was hyping up in. Again you literally just explained to me how Bacchus lost to Elfman, yes I am aware that Elfman only beat him by outlasting him, yes I am aware that Elfman as beaten up, but the point still stands Bacchus lost. when you're saying he's on par with folks like Kagura who casually ripping through the armor the took Jupiter head on, their offensive powers are not even comparable. Mind you Kagura wasn't even going all out. Bacchus didn't perform well enough to say he can hang with the people you're suggesting while he wasn't portrayed as a threat either if Bacchus was as strong as you said Sabertooth would be looked out for him the same way they did Kagura and Jura. Bacchus portrayal and overall feats aren't comparable to the people you placed him with.

What evidence have you shown, you showed a couple of shocked faces? That's some decent portrayal but the arc made it clear the only two big threats outside Saber for FT were Jura and Kagura. YOU HAVE COMPLETELY BEEN IGNORING MY POINT. I SAID ERZA BACK THEN WOULD BE A LOW TIER IN THE GMG ARC. You can claim she was stronger than Natsu and Erza back then, but guess what? I NEVER DENIED THAT. While I only claimed that they were equal to that one arc, like this is another case of you reading my posts carefully. While you also keep brining up anime filler, guess what, THAT IS FILLER .

Go back to page 9 comment #168 you said Erza and Natsu were about the same strength. Yo gmg didn't start until after the Tenrou team was out for seven years. Before they went missing they were the strongest. After 7 years they did not get stronger did not age. They were behind in power. In three months, for them it was one day because the celestial spirit world moves slower. They got second origin, which gave them power they might have gotten had they trained like the others. Are you saying when they got back after seven years those were the times Erza fought Bacchus? Because the only time the Tenrou team were shit tier were the first three months after the skip. That was not the time Erza fought Baccus. She fought him when they ran into each other on their own jobs. What arc was Erza shit tier? And how the hell was Natsu as strong as Erza in the phantom arc after she beat a serious Aria who made Natsu look like shit? So Natsu was always weaker then Erza then caught up to her in the phantom arc, which isn't true, then Erza got stronger than him since then?

I'm not trying to ignore your comments. Tell me which arc was it Erza was weak. I think you got the whole thing mixed up

 

[Ultimateasus]

Well Aria uses wind which is strong against fire as mentioned in the fight with Erigor. Also that was the same Natsu who was losing to Gajeel because he didn't eat fire yet.

Even though I agree that Erza was stronger than Natsu before (currently I think he surpassd her).

Also are we discussing that Baccus is strong? I mean the guy who was foderized by Ichiya and Sting and lose to Elfman?
Overhyping characters is common in this manga, no need to take it that seriously.

 

[Firepower]

Well Aria uses wind which is strong against fire as mentioned in the fight with Erigor. Also that was the same Natsu who was losing to Gajeel because he didn't eat fire yet.

Even though I agree that Erza was stronger than Natsu before (currently I think he surpassd her).

Also are we discussing that Baccus is strong? I mean the guy who was foderized by Ichiya and Sting and lose to Elfman?
Overhyping characters is common in this manga, no need to take it that seriously.

I don't think wind or fire have any advantages against one another. Just like how water stops fire, but it's not based on the element if it's stronger. That all depends on the Mage.

Bacchus is strong. He got caught off guard against Sting and Ichiya. Mira was stronger than Elfman during the Tenrou arc, but Mira was caught off guard when they surprised her by saying they were getting married. That's how Elfman defeated her. Makarov had both types of off guard moments at the same time when Aria defeated Makarov. Makarov was shocked to know that Lucy was kidnapped, and at the same time Aria sneaked behind him and got Makarov. By no means was Elfman stronger than Mira. Aria a was not stronger than Makarov either, but caught Makarov off guard from behind.

Bacchus was caught off guard twice. Sting came diving at him from behind. Ichiya did the same thing that Elfman did to Mira. Bacchus beat the crap out of Elfman that after the fight Elfman had full body bandages. It was one sided Elfman didn't touch him once. Bacchus was hitting him sending him flying all over the place. Elfman was face down. Bacchus was breaking the lizard armor hurting Elfman. That's why Elfman lost his takeover and fell on his knees. It's hard to call that a victory, when the other guy never got hit and was playing around the whole time, never taking it seriously that he just decided to exhaust himself and see how that would go.

 

[Arjuna]

"Before Ichiya and Nichiya can explain about their first meeting, Bacchus starts the battle quickly by slapping Nichiya in the face, immediately taking him out of the battle. Ichiya is shocked as he believed his Edolas counterpart to have the same battle power as him. Bacchus and Rocker act fast as they get the chance while attacking Ichiya with Drill 'n Rockand Under Moonlight.[3]

Ichiya uses his Perfume Magic
This makes Ichiya fall down, seemingly defeated. At the moment Ichiya falls down, he recalls how Nichiya was an Exceed who cannot fight yet still agreed to battle alongside him upon his asking. Thinking of him, Ichiya regains his strength and returns to battle, dedicated to beat his opponents.[4]Ichiya begins to activate his Power Perfume and quickly becomes muscular and subsequently defeats Rocker and Bacchus by smashing them against a wall using Smiling Smash, shocking the crowd."
I don't see anywhere it is mentioned that Ichiya caught Bacchus offguard.

 

[Firepower]

"Before Ichiya and Nichiya can explain about their first meeting, Bacchus starts the battle quickly by slapping Nichiya in the face, immediately taking him out of the battle. Ichiya is shocked as he believed his Edolas counterpart to have the same battle power as him. Bacchus and Rocker act fast as they get the chance while attacking Ichiya with Drill 'n Rockand Under Moonlight.[3]

Ichiya uses his Perfume Magic
This makes Ichiya fall down, seemingly defeated. At the moment Ichiya falls down, he recalls how Nichiya was an Exceed who cannot fight yet still agreed to battle alongside him upon his asking. Thinking of him, Ichiya regains his strength and returns to battle, dedicated to beat his opponents.[4]Ichiya begins to activate his Power Perfume and quickly becomes muscular and subsequently defeats Rocker and Bacchus by smashing them against a wall using Smiling Smash, shocking the crowd."
I don't see anywhere it is mentioned that Ichiya caught Bacchus offguard.

I got my source from the anime where Ichiya used his perfum to get big, but couldn't be seen with all the smoke. When the were about to drop on him from an air attack, the smoke cleared and Ichiya did some gay pose and a few words to match. That got the two to freeze midair and was thinking wtf. That's when the attack came.

But if the manga is different from the anime, then Bacchus really isn't anything special. I'll check on that later.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2016 ---

@natsulucy just checked both anime and manga. In the anime Bacchus and the other guy literally had their air attack just stop midair when Ichiya gave his pose which caught them off guard. Same as Mira who was fighting Elfman when Evergreen said they were getting married which shocked Mira, caught her off guard and lost the fight. She was making Elfman look like a joke the whole time.

In the manga it does not show that they were caught off guard to Ichiya. Therefore Ichiya did beat them fair and square. When I adjust my power ranking Bacchus will no longer be there. Thanks

 

[reesestl]

I don't think wind or fire have any advantages against one another. Just like how water stops fire, but it's not based on the element if it's stronger. That all depends on the Mage.

Bacchus is strong. He got caught off guard against Sting and Ichiya. Mira was stronger than Elfman during the Tenrou arc, but Mira was caught off guard when they surprised her by saying they were getting married. That's how Elfman defeated her. Makarov had both types of off guard moments at the same time when Aria defeated Makarov. Makarov was shocked to know that Lucy was kidnapped, and at the same time Aria sneaked behind him and got Makarov. By no means was Elfman stronger than Mira. Aria a was not stronger than Makarov either, but caught Makarov off guard from behind.

Bacchus was caught off guard twice. Sting came diving at him from behind. Ichiya did the same thing that Elfman did to Mira. Bacchus beat the crap out of Elfman that after the fight Elfman had full body bandages. It was one sided Elfman didn't touch him once. Bacchus was hitting him sending him flying all over the place. Elfman was face down. Bacchus was breaking the lizard armor hurting Elfman. That's why Elfman lost his takeover and fell on his knees. It's hard to call that a victory, when the other guy never got hit and was playing around the whole time, never taking it seriously that he just decided to exhaust himself and see how that would go.

Come on, not all off-guard is same. Bacchus was in the GMG and he should have a reasonable expectation of being ambushed by the enemy. Same with Makarav, but he was shocked by Lucy's kidnapping. No such handicap for Bacchus. Plus Aria is special in the way that he has no presence at all commented by Makarov. No such case with Sting or Ichiya. In fact, i will say, I chiya has the strongest presence...lol! And most importantly, this a well thought out plan and the Aria's ambush was well prepared. The whole attack on FT and luring them in barging into the PL guildhouse was all for that moment.

Lets see the case of Mira. Elfman did not defeat her. He just managed to get past her. There was nothing real at stake here for Mirajane. Elfman is her weakness and it just had an emotional impact. We again, see, Wahl exploiting that weakness in this arc with those ridiculous Elfman copies. Ichiya is what one can describe as out and proud in how he is. He is well-known to have his peculiarities. Plus anyone watching the GMGs should know that, even if they had no foreknowledge. And anyway you can't not have known of Ichiya's personality. Plus much was at stake. If you caught off-guard so often in an important fight of stakes and when is the order of the day, it just sounds like an excuse.

Bacchus beat the crap out of Elfman, but that was ELfman's strategy. ANd anyway Elfman is not that strong. Even if I accept your claim that Elfman's win was no real victory, that just shows he is in Elfman's class, maybe slightly stronger or weaker than him.

And "gay pose" is a punchable excuse for Bacchus. That just the fault in his personality where he wagers about women and gets shocked by "gay pose". His false machismo makes him weaker and is his responsibility.

 

[Firepower]

Come on, not all off-guard is same. Bacchus was in the GMG and he should have a reasonable expectation of being ambushed by the enemy. Same with Makarav, but he was shocked by Lucy's kidnapping. No such handicap for Bacchus. Plus Aria is special in the way that he has no presence at all commented by Makarov. No such case with Sting or Ichiya. In fact, i will say, I chiya has the strongest presence...lol! And most importantly, this a well thought out plan and the Aria's ambush was well prepared. The whole attack on FT and luring them in barging into the PL guildhouse was all for that moment.

Lets see the case of Mira. Elfman did not defeat her. He just managed to get past her. There was nothing real at stake here for Mirajane. Elfman is her weakness and it just had an emotional impact. We again, see, Wahl exploiting that weakness in this arc with those ridiculous Elfman copies. Ichiya is what one can describe as out and proud in how he is. He is well-known to have his peculiarities. Plus anyone watching the GMGs should know that, even if they had no foreknowledge. And anyway you can't not have known of Ichiya's personality. Plus much was at stake. If you caught off-guard so often in an important fight of stakes and when is the order of the day, it just sounds like an excuse.

Bacchus beat the crap out of Elfman, but that was ELfman's strategy. ANd anyway Elfman is not that strong. Even if I accept your claim that Elfman's win was no real victory, that just shows he is in Elfman's class, maybe slightly stronger or weaker than him.

I already said that Bacchus will not be in my list thanks to natsulucy providing good evidence.

If I remember correctly the rules in Tenrou were that the one they fight will decide if they pass or not. I thought Makarov said you cannot pass the test by running past them. It had nothing to do with presence. Mira admitted she was defeated and also had a band aid because of getting caught off guard. When Erza and Mira were cooking that's when Mira told Erza that she was caught off guard when they said they were getting married. In the anime, Bacchus literally had his momentum stop midair because those guys were caught off guard by Ichiya who posed all of the sudden. If you don't believe me, watch it yourself. But I already said that its confirmed in the manga that Ichiya posed, but no panel showed the two caught off guard.

Elfman's strategy as a last resort was to endure the match. And honestly Bacchus did not have to hit Elfman either. If Bacchus chose not to attack, Elfman would have to have transformed into something with attack power to actually try and win.

Again I said to natsulucy already that Ichiya's win in the manga was legit. I said Baccus will be removed from my list when I make another one or adjust the original.

 

[Arjuna]

I got my source from the anime where Ichiya used his perfum to get big, but couldn't be seen with all the smoke. When the were about to drop on him from an air attack, the smoke cleared and Ichiya did some gay pose and a few words to match. That got the two to freeze midair and was thinking wtf. That's when the attack came.

But if the manga is different from the anime, then Bacchus really isn't anything special. I'll check on that later.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2016 ---

@natsulucy just checked both anime and manga. In the anime Bacchus and the other guy literally had their air attack just stop midair when Ichiya gave his pose which caught them off guard. Same as Mira who was fighting Elfman when Evergreen said they were getting married which shocked Mira, caught her off guard and lost the fight. She was making Elfman look like a joke the whole time.

In the manga it does not show that they were caught off guard to Ichiya. Therefore Ichiya did beat them fair and square. When I adjust my power ranking Bacchus will no longer be there. Thanks

So the Animie expanded the fight.I will put Bacchus to be on the levels of Elfman.

 

[Firepower]

So the Animie expanded the fight.I will put Bacchus to be on the levels of Elfman.

I wouldn't go that far.

 

[reesestl]

I already said that Bacchus will not be in my list thanks to natsulucy providing good evidence.

If I remember correctly the rules in Tenrou were that the one they fight will decide if they pass or not. I thought Makarov said you cannot pass the test by running past them. It had nothing to do with presence. Mira admitted she was defeated and also had a band aid because of getting caught off guard. When Erza and Mira were cooking that's when Mira told Erza that she was caught off guard when they said they were getting married. In the anime, Bacchus literally had his momentum stop midair because those guys were caught off guard by Ichiya who posed all of the sudden. If you don't believe me, watch it yourself. But I already said that its confirmed in the manga that Ichiya posed, but no panel showed the two caught off guard.

Elfman's strategy as a last resort was to endure the match. And honestly Bacchus did not have to hit Elfman either. If Bacchus chose not to attack, Elfman would have to have transformed into something with attack power to actually try and win.

Again I said to natsulucy already that Ichiya's win in the manga was legit. I said Baccus will be removed from my list when I make another one or adjust the original.

FIrst thing, Natsulucy's and your response loaded after I had posted and then I re-edited some. So, sorry if that annoyed you.

Presence I said, about Aria during the PLord fight not tenrou. After he suddenly stood behind Makarov, where did he come from, this guy has no "kehai" which I translate as presence.

ANd we are quibbling over Mira. Yes she said she had lost, and yes, there is another scene; where both Elfman and Ever come and report we have defeated Mira. Everyone is shocked and ask how. At that Elfman says he can't reveal it as a man and Ever says "we managed to find a momentary opening and slipped through". But I think we agree in substance what happened b/w Mira and those two.

As i said, Bacchus may be stronger than Elfman. And, that victory was imo more about FT has to win than anything else.