Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Asorx]

It's cool, I'm glad it got cleared up.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2016, Original Post Date: May 26, 2016 ---

How is CSK landing an attack on someone as fast as Laxus, when he couldn't even land an attack on base Mard? How will CSK protect Lucy from someone as fast as Laxus, or someone with the explosive power of FDKM Natsu.
The fact that CSK only runs on Lucy's energy means that all people have to to when facing him is dodge until Lucy runs out of energy, pretty simple to beat really. CSK Lucy loses that fight all day everyday.

Lucy can be in Horologinum and Laxus can die with one aoe atack.

 

[Shoutmon]

Lucy can be in Horologinum and Laxus can die with one aoe atack.

Can't Laxus just blitz through Horologium? What's that thing's defensive limit anyways?

 

[Crimson Ice]

S-Class is a title given to magues who show certain skills that others don't. The most important one being strength and power, but also responsibility, will or intelligence. It's not that "S-Class is not worth a damn anymore". It certainly is outdated, and were S-class exams taken again, Natsu, Gray and Gajeel would definetely pass. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are above Mira. I believe Natsu and DeS Gray to be above Mira, but Gajeel, without DF, is at most Mira level.

As for the poison debate, it is indeed interesting since we don't know what'd happen if Mira or Cobra tried to eat that poison. Maybe they'd end up in much the way Laxus ended up when he breathed Tempester's, maybe nothing'd happen or maybe even they'd power up. So far it's safe to assume Gajeel is the only person immune to magic particles, a natural counter. Still, anyone with Levy's mask would seemingly be as immune.



Agreed.

Nothing implies hype, portrayal or feat wise Mira is above Gajeel without DF. This isn't the Fighting Festival arc anymore Mira isn't Erza's equal and even then I doubt Erza is above Natsu, Gray and Gajeel anymore.

 

[Char]

Lucy can be in Horologinum and Laxus can die with one aoe atack.

Interesting point, we don't know Horologium's limitation as far as defense is concerned. It has tanked attacks of seemingly way more powerful characters than Lucy, therefore I think it could tank Laxus' attacks. Still, CSK is not hitting Laxus. Laxus is well above Etherias Mard Geer, let alone base.

CSK is definetely way below in that list. He's got the offensive, but he's missing some speed.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2016, Original Post Date: May 26, 2016 ---

Nothing implies hype, portrayal or feat wise Mira is above Gajeel without DF. This isn't the Fighting Festival arc anymore Mira isn't Erza's equal and even then I doubt Erza is above Natsu, Gray and Gajeel anymore.

I agree that Mira is above Gajeel, and that Mira is below Erza. Based on hype or portrayal, because, on feats, we still haven't seen the extent of Mira's improvement.

As for Natsu, Gray or Gajeel (base) being above Erza, I don't think so. Natsu, maybe, but I think there's a big gap between current base Natsu and current base Gajeel/Gray.

So it could go like this:

Erza > base Natsu > base Gajeel > base Gray
base Natsu > Erza > base Gajeel > base Gray

I'm more inclined to the second option. Feat wise, base Gajeel and base Gray should be around the same level, so their position is probably interchangeable.
Base Natsu beat Bluenote, well... no... he actually OHKOed him. That's SOME feat. I don't think base Gajeel or base Gray could achieve that. As for Erza... I'm not sure. But OHKOing someone a tier below Glidartz is incredible. As a matter of fact, I've seen people argue Bluenote = Hades, so that'd make the feat all the more impressive. In my opinion, Hades > > Bluenote, so that doesn't stand, but still: Bluenote was some foe back in Tenroujima, who was now fodderized by base Natsu. Base Natsu also OHKOed a god, didnt' he?

 

[Crimson Ice]

Interesting point, we don't know Horologium's limitation as far as defense is concerned. It has tanked attacks of seemingly way more powerful characters than Lucy, therefore I think it could tank Laxus' attacks. Still, CSK is not hitting Laxus. Laxus is well above Etherias Mard Geer, let alone base.

CSK is definetely way below in that list. He's got the offensive, but he's missing some speed.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2016, Original Post Date: May 26, 2016 ---

I agree that Mira is above Gajeel, and that Mira is below Erza. Based on hype or portrayal, because, on feats, we still haven't seen the extent of Mira's improvement.

As for Natsu, Gray or Gajeel (base) being above Erza, I don't think so. Natsu, maybe, but I think there's a big gap between current base Natsu and current base Gajeel/Gray.

So it could go like this:

Erza > base Natsu > base Gajeel > base Gray
base Natsu > Erza > base Gajeel > base Gray

I'm more inclined to the second option. Feat wise, base Gajeel and base Gray should be around the same level, so their position is probably interchangeable.
Base Natsu beat Bluenote, well... no... he actually OHKOed him. That's SOME feat. I don't think base Gajeel or base Gray could achieve that. As for Erza... I'm not sure. But OHKOing someone a tier below Glidartz is incredible. As a matter of fact, I've seen people argue Bluenote = Hades, so that'd make the feat all the more impressive. In my opinion, Hades > > Bluenote, so that doesn't stand, but still: Bluenote was some foe back in Tenroujima, who was now fodderized by base Natsu. Base Natsu also OHKOed a god, didnt' he?

There's no big gap between Natsu, Gray and Gajeel when in base. Natsu and Gray literally stalemate each other in base during the Avatar arc despite Natsu having the elemental advantage. And don't say 'Natsu wasn't serious' because neither was Gray. Nothing implies at ALL Mira is above Gajeel and in terms of base Gajeel was keeping up fine with Bradman in terms of physical combat unlike Erza with Ajeel so Gajeel may not be stronger in base but overall he's stronger.....Or did you forget about Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

 

[Stormsfury]

Lucy can be in Horologinum and Laxus can die with one aoe atack.

How can she summon Hologrim after she's summoned CSK?
What's going to stop Laxus from blitzing through Hologrim?
Laxus is faster then Mard, I'm pretty sure he can dodge CSK's AOE attacks that couldn't even hit base Mard.

 

[Char]

There's no big gap between Natsu, Gray and Gajeel when in base. Natsu and Gray literally stalemate each other in base during the Avatar arc despite Natsu having the elemental advantage. And don't say 'Natsu wasn't serious' because neither was Gray. Nothing implies at ALL Mira is above Gajeel and in terms of base Gajeel was keeping up fine with Bradman in terms of physical combat unlike Erza with Ajeel so Gajeel may not be stronger in base but overall he's stronger.....Or did you forget about Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

Gray or Gajeel don't have feats when in base that prove they'd be able to defeat Bluenote, or a giant god.

Gajeel was keeping up right against Bradman? eerr... OK?

Erza was at a disadvantage when space magic was unaccessible, but when she could use her magic again and summoned the wind + water armor, she had the upper hand. So, she was keeping up just fine against Ajeel. That is, of course, until Ajeel got serious.

As for Gajeel, at the beginning of their battle, he seems to be comfortable fighting Bradman. He seems to be capable of dodging his attacks graciously and landing hits. If it weren't, of course, due to the fact that Bradman is taking no damage at all. Until... what happens? Bradman goes from the deffensive to the offensive. Then, Gajeel can no longer keep up.

So, by analogy, we could say that both were fighting comfortably until the spriggans got serious. When Ajeel got serious, Erza was f*cked up, that's true. But please, don't say Gajeel was keeping up just fine against Bradman when he didn't even scratch him and he got damage, when Bradman got a bit serious he was f*cked up as well. Levy had to intervene, otherwise Gajeel would be pretty much done (similar to Bisca intervening). And if you take into account that Gajeel is a natural counter of Bradman's magic... He's clearly well below Bradman, at least in base.

I think Gajeel would lose miserably to Ajeel, unless Mashima makes up an excuse like "steel has no water in it, so it cannot be dried up". After all, Gajeel has a human body and the human body is made of water.

Similarly, Erza would lose miserably to Bradman, but that's only because she's not a natural counter.

 

[DemonKing888]

My ranking of the mages in ft:
1. Lucy with CSK
2. Laxus
3. FDKM Natsu
4. Gray
5. Erza/Mira
6. Mira/Erza
7. Gajeel
8. Lucy
9. Juvia (water body is op)
10. Freed
11. Wendy
The rest. I dont put Gildarts cuz we dont know how strong he is.

1). Laxus (obvious)
2). FDKM Natsu
3). Gildarts (although we don't know if he's above FDKM Natsu or Laxus)
4). Erza
5). DeS Gray
6). Mirajane
7). Base Natsu
8) Base Gajeel/Base Gray
9) Freed
10). Evergreen/Bickslow
11). Juvia/Lucy

How is Laxus ranked higher then FDKM Natsu? Now Base Natsu<Laxus is true. but FDKM Natsu has shown off more feats then Laxus. I would compare Laxus one Lightning attack on Ajeel as an spriggan level attack but FDKM Natsu has shown off attacks greater or equal to that one Lightning bolt.

FDKM's Aura alone is enough to affect an large area
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/18.

Laxus could be equal to FDKM but he isn't greater then it.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Gray or Gajeel don't have feats when in base that prove they'd be able to defeat Bluenote, or a giant god.

Gajeel was keeping up right against Bradman? eerr... OK?

Erza was at a disadvantage when space magic was unaccessible, but when she could use her magic again and summoned the wind + water armor, she had the upper hand. So, she was keeping up just fine against Ajeel. That is, of course, until Ajeel got serious.

As for Gajeel, at the beginning of their battle, he seems to be comfortable fighting Bradman. He seems to be capable of dodging his attacks graciously and landing hits. If it weren't, of course, due to the fact that Bradman is taking no damage at all. Until... what happens? Bradman goes from the deffensive to the offensive. Then, Gajeel can no longer keep up.

So, by analogy, we could say that both were fighting comfortably until the spriggans got serious. When Ajeel got serious, Erza was f*cked up, that's true. But please, don't say Gajeel was keeping up just fine against Bradman when he didn't even scratch him and he got damage, when Bradman got a bit serious he was f*cked up as well. Levy had to intervene, otherwise Gajeel would be pretty much done (similar to Bisca intervening). And if you take into account that Gajeel is a natural counter of Bradman's magic... He's clearly well below Bradman, at least in base.

I think Gajeel would lose miserably to Ajeel, unless Mashima makes up an excuse like "steel has no water in it, so it cannot be dried up". After all, Gajeel has a human body and the human body is made of water.

Similarly, Erza would lose miserably to Bradman, but that's only because she's not a natural counter.

Gray literally stalemates Natsu.........



Can you read? Like I'm serious doubting ANYONE'S ability to read in this thread. I SAID PHYSICALLY PHYSCIALLY. I didn't say it the first time but since none of you could figure it out I'm going to have to make is even clearer.



Ajeel was toying with her before her magic was inaccessible and called her a warm up.


Bradman took damage when he tried to choke Gajeel and he headbutted him, the only reason Bradman hasn't taken damage was due to intangibility. Bradman never physically overwhelmed Gajeel and only overpowered him due to his weird magic.


Both were fighting a Spriggan fine before they got serious, difference in Erza was at full power when Gajeel still has his Iron Shadow Dragon Mode and potentially his Steel Dragon Mode. Gajeel wouldn't lose to Ajeel.

 

[Char]

Gray literally stalemates Natsu.........



Can you read? Like I'm serious doubting ANYONE'S ability to read in this thread. I SAID PHYSICALLY PHYSCIALLY. I didn't say it the first time but since none of you could figure it out I'm going to have to make is even clearer.

Phisically as in without using magic? Martial arts? Magues like Natsu or Gray usually combine martial arts with magic. What does it matter if they're equal on martial arts? The moment Natsu uses a roar he's going to outclass Gray.

On a side note, wasn't that DeS Gray who fought Natsu back in Avatar? They fought phisically, but they combined magic in their attacks ( Chapter 428, page 6, Natsu blocks Gray's punch, it ices Natsu's arm. Then Natsu kicks Gray and Gray tanks it. Flames come out of his leg).

So, yeah, we could say, according to that chapter, DeS Gray = Base Natsu. Although that chapter proves pretty much nothing: no impressive feats from either, they were just warming up, etc.

When we talk about superiority or inferiority, we don't mean in martial arts, we mean as a mague, as a whole, as in "what'd happen if they fought". Now can base gray or base gajeel one-shot Bluenote or a giant god? I don't think so.

Ajeel was toying with her before her magic was inaccessible and called her a warm up.

He was being overzealous. Personality matters in a battle. He wasn't so happy when Erza began to actually damage him. Hold on, Ajeel is superior to Erza, just in case you might have though I was implying the contrary. I'm just saying that, in analogy, Gajeel's fight is "similar".

Bradman took damage when he tried to choke Gajeel and he headbutted him, the only reason Bradman hasn't taken damage was due to intangibility. Bradman never physically overwhelmed Gajeel and only overpowered him due to his weird magic.

Yes, that is correct. Gajeel might well be above Bradman as far as hand to hand combat goes, but how is that a factor? If his magic outclasses him, and they are magues, then Bradman is above Gajeel.

Both were fighting a Spriggan fine before they got serious, difference in Erza was at full power when Gajeel still has his Iron Shadow Dragon Mode and potentially his Steel Dragon Mode. Gajeel wouldn't lose to Ajeel.

Erza was at full power when she began to actually hurt Ajeel, that is, when she summoned the best counter armor against Ajeel (Wind armor + water sword). I'm willing to see how Steel-Shadow Gajeel can actually touch an intangible body. I'm also willing to see his DF, although I don't know how his DF would be an advantage to intangibility.

Yes, Gajeel would definetely lose to Ajeel. As long as Gajeel has a human body. I mean, during their first encounter, DeS Gray, Stardress Lucy, base Natsu, base Erza, mest and Makarov had to run away from him. Then Erza fought him and was on the verge of losing, hadn't it been for Bisca. Ajeel is not a very powerful spriggan, but he's an extremely powerful wizard who vastly outclasses Gajeel (current feats). Maybe Steel-Shadow Gajeel could do something against Ajeel, but pull off a win? Let's remember not only does Ajeel dry you out to death, he's also intangible as far as you don't use water/wind.

 

[Jko]

It's really like you don't read my posts carefully at all. I'm not even going to tell you what's wrong with your reply, you figure it out......

As for the Gajeel thing Mira isn't allowing anything. You people act like being S-Class is worth a damn anymore. Also for magic barrier particles isn't regular poison.

This is exactly what you said...

Gajeel is physically on par with Bradman in base

You're trying to say Gajeel was equal to Bradman physically in base which is wrong as Bradman rekt Gajeel so hard he needed fodder to save him . In no way was Gajeel on par with Bradman when he hasn't even laid a scratch on him . Read your own words carefully before you post

Also MCB don't work on Mira since she has an Etherious takeover now .

 

[Axiomus]

CSK should be around Mard Geer's level. I don't have Meteor Blade as a superior attack to something like Momento Mori. CSK's feats are actually smaller than some attacks like Ikusa-Tsunagi's slash and he's never been shown taking down impressive opponents with it, so there's a tendency to exaggerate his DC. CSK's attacks should be respectable, but they are not the strongest in the series. They are neither the largest aoe, nor have they taken down the strongest opponents.

FDK mode Natsu has equal offensive feats to Laxus, maybe even arguably better. However, Natsu is lacking in durability feats whereas Laxus can take hits from someone like Walh. We should be able to see the limits of Natsu's durability once he fights August. Gray and Erza should be around base Natsu's level. FDK mode Natsu outclasses them.

 

[Boomburst]

There's no big gap between Natsu, Gray and Gajeel when in base. Natsu and Gray literally stalemate each other in base during the Avatar arc despite Natsu having the elemental advantage. And don't say 'Natsu wasn't serious' because neither was Gray. Nothing implies at ALL Mira is above Gajeel and in terms of base Gajeel was keeping up fine with Bradman in terms of physical combat unlike Erza with Ajeel so Gajeel may not be stronger in base but overall he's stronger.....Or did you forget about Gajeel's Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

Dude you can't go off of Gray and Natsu trading a few punches and use that to determine who's stronger. It was extremely obvious that neither of them were trying to do any real damage. And since we can't go off of what happened in their fight because of that, then that leaves us with only feats to base their strength off of, in which case Natsu leaves Gray a mile behind. I know Gray has gotten stronger but I sincerely doubt he's as strong as Natsu.

 

[Tinitus]

Erza and Gray are around Base Natsu level, so yeah they are as strong as him from portrayal. Natsu has more combat feats than August, does that mean Natsu is stronger than him? We have to look at portrayal here, because some characters don't great the same treatment as Natsu does in showing his power. so Gray is = Natsu, same with Erza= Natsu. FDK Mode Natsu is above both Erza and Gray though.

On another note, why is Mirajane being overhyped here? What has she done to be above Erza, Gray and Gajeel on some lists?

Mirajane's best feats are against Freed, after that she's all hype.

Gajeel has bettter durability, endurance, offensive attacks, speed with shadows, all around more physically stronger.

Gray can own Mirajane with his DeS so that definitely puts him above Mira and is superior to him in fair amount of stats.

Erza has always shown to be superior and has much better combat feats from all stats.

 

[The President]

Dude just cause God Serena needed to use his full power to beat four of the strongest mages from Ishgar does not mean in anyway that he's weak as a Spriggan.

He's not weak as a Spriggan.

I can also agree that Laxus improved a lot, at least in DC, since he was able to pretty much create a nuke. I think he would've been able to create one before the timeskip, maybe not of these proportions though. What I do not agree is that Jura's potential is lower than Laxus'. I think they have a close potential, what differs is the amount of training and possibly their age (prime).

Compare Raging Bolt to the casual bolts he used on Ajeels Sand Tsunami and Wahl. The latter are way larger. Juras potential is clearly lower then Laxuses, prior to the first time skip Jura was as old (or older?) then current Laxus and yet his power wasnt even comparable to GMG Laxus, let alone the current one.

About God Serena, the problem seems to be that you consider him "weak". For me, he's the strongest spriggan after August, Irene, Dimaria and probably Brandish. You consider him weak, but I don't know what you base on. Maybe the fact that he was ridiculuously one-shotted by Acnologia. Maybe it appears to you that he had to use his full power to defeat the four gods of Ishval. In my honest opinion, he was toying with them until he got tired. I can agree, if you will, that the four wizard saints may be equal to base Serena; but I can't agree with you on saying his attacks are weak "because they didn't knock them down" or that they prove to be Wendy level. I mean, this is ridiculous. Jura alone would sh*t on DF Wendy.

I don't consider him weak in the slightest. He's just clearly not as powerful as some people portray him as. Characters of Natsus and Laxuses caliber wouldn't struggle that much with him, but that's because they are within the top 10 strongest characters in the manga. Serena is still powerful though, taking out the Ishval Saints is not an easy feat, especially how easily Serena did it. Your logic is what implied Serenas attacks are piss weak, because you insisted that the Ishval Saints could still stand up if they had wanted to do it. I disagreed.

You seem to rely a lot on feats, for example, for putting Laxus above Hyberion when I think they're equals. I'd like to see more feats from Hyberion that would prove he's actually on Laxus' tier, but unfortunately I don't think that'll happen.

Naturally, feats > everything else.

BTW, you also say Erza's improved a lot, but I don't see feats that prove so. I've only seen one new armor of hers, other than that, she hasn't showed anything too impressive.

Makarov deemed that Erza and the other memebers of Team A wouldn't stand a chance against Ajeel and yet Erza alone is now strong enough to provide him with a Mid-Diff battle. This is because Makarov wasn't up-to-date on the growth of the characters and assumed they weren't that much more powerful then their Pre-TS selves.

 

[Boomburst]

Erza and Gray are around Base Natsu level, so yeah they are as strong as him from portrayal. Natsu has more combat feats than August, does that mean Natsu is stronger than him? We have to look at portrayal here, because some characters don't great the same treatment as Natsu does in showing his power. so Gray is = Natsu, same with Erza= Natsu. FDK Mode Natsu is above both Erza and Gray though.

On another note, why is Mirajane being overhyped here? What has she done to be above Erza, Gray and Gajeel on some lists?

Mirajane's best feats are against Freed, after that she's all hype.

Gajeel has bettter durability, endurance, offensive attacks, speed with shadows, all around more physically stronger.

Gray can own Mirajane with his DeS so that definitely puts him above Mira and is superior to him in fair amount of stats.

Erza has always shown to be superior and has much better combat feats from all stats.

That August analogy makes no sense at all. We have yet to see August fight, but he's been hyped as the most powerful mage in the world. Of course we don't expect Natsu to be stronger than him. Gray has had almost 500 chapters worth of development where we readers can get a good idea of what he's capable of and what he's not.

Gray is as strong as Natsu based on portrayal? Huh? Portrayal of what? We have yet to see very much of Grays new strength at all. Natsu, however, we have a very good idea of how strong he is and based in that, it just doesn't seem realistic that Gray is at the same level. Are you telling me Gray could have one shot Bluenote and the God of war?

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2016, Original Post Date: May 27, 2016 ---

He's not weak as a Spriggan.



Compare Raging Bolt to the casual bolts he used on Ajeels Sand Tsunami and Wahl. The latter are way larger. Juras potential is clearly lower then Laxuses, prior to the first time skip Jura was as old (or older?) then current Laxus and yet his power wasnt even comparable to GMG Laxus, let alone the current one.



I don't consider him weak in the slightest. He's just clearly not as powerful as some people portray him as. Characters of Natsus and Laxuses caliber wouldn't struggle that much with him, but that's because they are within the top 10 strongest characters in the manga. Serena is still powerful though, taking out the Ishval Saints is not an easy feat, especially how easily Serena did it. Your logic is what implied Serenas attacks are piss weak, because you insisted that the Ishval Saints could still stand up if they had wanted to do it. I disagreed.



Naturally, feats > everything else.



Makarov deemed that Erza and the other memebers of Team A wouldn't stand a chance against Ajeel and yet Erza alone is now strong enough to provide him with a Mid-Diff battle. This is because Makarov wasn't up-to-date on the growth of the characters and assumed they weren't that much more powerful then their Pre-TS selves.

Lol I'm not completely sure but I THINK that Ajeel getting hit by a cannon capable of destroying an entire country MAY have had a slight affect on the outcome of the battle...just, you know, maybe just the tiniest bit... -_-

 

[Char]

On another note, why is Mirajane being overhyped here? What has she done to be above Erza, Gray and Gajeel on some lists?

Based on portrayal, I guess. Not above Erza though, slightly below, I think most of us pretty much agree on that.

Mirajane's best feats are against Freed, after that she's all hype.

You probably meant Mirajane's only feats :P Nah, it's based on portrayal: rank, comparison to Erza's level, etc.

Gajeel has bettter durability, endurance, offensive attacks, speed with shadows, all around more physically stronger.

Feat wise, not portrayal wise. And feats are what matters, but they're not appliable if the other part hasn't shown anything. And post-time skip Mira hasn't shown anything, really. Gajeel hasn't shown much other than some hand-to-hand against Bradman.

Gray can own Mirajane with his DeS so that definitely puts him above Mira and is superior to him in fair amount of stats.

I agree on the fact Gray could beat Mira, but not based on "power", based on "magic compatibility". Gray's magic is very effective against demon Mirajane.

Erza has always shown to be superior and has much better combat feats from all stats.

Shown, as in feats, yes; but hype/portrayal wise, they've always been stated to be equals. Mira's never had too many feats to compare...

I don't consider him weak in the slightest. He's just clearly not as powerful as some people portray him as. Characters of Natsus and Laxuses caliber wouldn't struggle that much with him, but that's because they are within the top 10 strongest characters in the manga. Serena is still powerful though, taking out the Ishval Saints is not an easy feat, especially how easily Serena did it. Your logic is what implied Serenas attacks are piss weak, because you insisted that the Ishval Saints could still stand up if they had wanted to do it. I disagreed.

But the thing is, we haven't seen Natsu or Laxus fight Serena. Due to hype and portrayal (Ooba stated that the four gods of ishval massively outclassed Jura), and taking into account Jura was stated to be the strongest human at that moment (although we know probably surpassed by Laxus and Glidartz), I came to think that the four gods of Ishval were amazingly powerful. I would've never thought we'd be currently ranking Natsu and Laxus above Hyberion. And I still don't, for the record. In my opinion, Hyberion is probably Laxus tier, but that's another story, and based on feats, most of you will disagree with me. We haven't seen real full power Hyberion, or Wolfheim, or Warrod, to be able to rank them, but we have seen the extent of Laxus' attacks.

What we haven't seen is full power Serena. Maybe the extent of his power is similar or surpasses that of FDKM Natsu or Laxus. We'll never know that as he died before showing his true potential. Last but not least, the succession of attacks of Serena's was quick, and deadly; but we're talking about some of the 4 most powerful magues of Ishgar; so the fact that "they were capable of standing up" does not mean that Serena's attacks are weak. It means that the 4 W saint's endurance is considerable. After all we're talking about 1 VS 4, and Serena wasn't going all out. It'd make sense to say Serena's attacks are extremely powerful, even if he was not full power, but these 4's endurance is considerable.

As for feats > everything else, that'd stand if you compared feats and feats, not feats and portrayal. Hyberion hasn't shown his full power, but Laxus has, so they can't be properly compared. Based on portrayal, Hyberion should be superior; based on feats, Laxus is simply a monster.

Makarov deemed that Erza and the other memebers of Team A wouldn't stand a chance against Ajeel and yet Erza alone is now strong enough to provide him with a Mid-Diff battle. This is because Makarov wasn't up-to-date on the growth of the characters and assumed they weren't that much more powerful then their Pre-TS selves.

To be honest, I think Makarov underestimates all of his "children"... He's overprotective. He was rather surprised when he saw Gray and Lucy's new MP and techniques. I think pre-ts Erza would've given Ajeel an easy-to-mid diff, whereas post-ts gave him a mid-diff. The gap is not that wide, in my opinion. Feat-wise, I don't think she's shown anything too impressive post-time skip.

Gray is as strong as Natsu based on portrayal? Huh? Portrayal of what? We have yet to see very much of Grays new strength at all. Natsu, however, we have a very good idea of how strong he is and based in that, it just doesn't seem realistic that Gray is at the same level. Are you telling me Gray could have one shot Bluenote and the God of war?

Exactly my point.

Lol I'm not completely sure but I THINK that Ajeel getting hit by a cannon capable of destroying an entire country MAY have had a slight affect on the outcome of the battle...just, you know, maybe just the tiniest bit... -_-

He wasn't implying Erza might have beaten Ajeel at all. He's just implying Erza gave him some difficulty that pre-ts Erza, according to Makarov's knowledge, wouldn't have been able to.

As for Jupiter, it's not country level, it is small town-level at most. Etherion may be country level.

 

[Tinitus]

That August analogy makes no sense at all. We have yet to see August fight, but he's been hyped as the most powerful mage in the world. Of course we don't expect Natsu to be stronger than him. Gray has had almost 500 chapters worth of development where we readers can get a good idea of what he's capable of and what he's not.

Gray is as strong as Natsu based on portrayal? Huh? Portrayal of what? We have yet to see very much of Grays new strength at all. Natsu, however, we have a very good idea of how strong he is and based in that, it just doesn't seem realistic that Gray is at the same level. Are you telling me Gray could have one shot Bluenote and the God of war?

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2016, Original Post Date: May 27, 2016 ---

Lol I'm not completely sure but I THINK that Ajeel getting hit by a cannon capable of destroying an entire country MAY have had a slight affect on the outcome of the battle...just, you know, maybe just the tiniest bit... -_-

You're using combat feats as your main of argument.

Gray has had 500 chapters worth of development? Funny you say that when we don't see development in him for atleast half of those 500 chapters.
It's not a strange concept, that characters improve their strengths.

Yeah protrayal shown in the Avatar arc, protrayal shown fighting side to side. It's realistic that Gray is at the very least on Base natsu level. It's realistic that Erza is at the very least on Base natsu level. Denying this is overrating Natsu in his base form.

Natsu defeated God of War with FDKK, not with base. Bluenote is a great feat. Maybe Gray or Erza can oneshot Bluenote or not, we wouldn't know.

 

[Boomburst]

Based on portrayal, I guess. Not above Erza though, slightly below, I think most of us pretty much agree on that.



You probably meant Mirajane's only feats :P Nah, it's based on portrayal: rank, comparison to Erza's level, etc.



Feat wise, not portrayal wise. And feats are what matters, but they're not appliable if the other part hasn't shown anything. And post-time skip Mira hasn't shown anything, really. Gajeel hasn't shown much other than some hand-to-hand against Bradman.



I agree on the fact Gray could beat Mira, but not based on "power", based on "magic compatibility". Gray's magic is very effective against demon Mirajane.



Shown, as in feats, yes; but hype/portrayal wise, they've always been stated to be equals. Mira's never had too many feats to compare...



But the thing is, we haven't seen Natsu or Laxus fight Serena. Due to hype and portrayal (Ooba stated that the four gods of ishval massively outclassed Jura), and taking into account Jura was stated to be the strongest human at that moment (although we know probably surpassed by Laxus and Glidartz), I came to think that the four gods of Ishval were amazingly powerful. I would've never thought we'd be currently ranking Natsu and Laxus above Hyberion. And I still don't, for the record. In my opinion, Hyberion is probably Laxus tier, but that's another story, and based on feats, most of you will disagree with me. We haven't seen real full power Hyberion, or Wolfheim, or Warrod, to be able to rank them, but we have seen the extent of Laxus' attacks.

What we haven't seen is full power Serena. Maybe the extent of his power is similar or surpasses that of FDKM Natsu or Laxus. We'll never know that as he died before showing his true potential. Last but not least, the succession of attacks of Serena's was quick, and deadly; but we're talking about some of the 4 most powerful magues of Ishgar; so the fact that "they were capable of standing up" does not mean that Serena's attacks are weak. It means that the 4 W saint's endurance is considerable. After all we're talking about 1 VS 4, and Serena wasn't going all out. It'd make sense to say Serena's attacks are extremely powerful, even if he was not full power, but these 4's endurance is considerable.

As for feats > everything else, that'd stand if you compared feats and feats, not feats and portrayal. Hyberion hasn't shown his full power, but Laxus has, so they can't be properly compared. Based on portrayal, Hyberion should be superior; based on feats, Laxus is simply a monster.



To be honest, I think Makarov underestimates all of his "children"... He's overprotective. He was rather surprised when he saw Gray and Lucy's new MP and techniques. I think pre-ts Erza would've given Ajeel an easy-to-mid diff, whereas post-ts gave him a mid-diff. The gap is not that wide, in my opinion. Feat-wise, I don't think she's shown anything too impressive post-time skip.



Exactly my point.



He wasn't implying Erza might have beaten Ajeel at all. He's just implying Erza gave him some difficulty that pre-ts Erza, according to Makarov's knowledge, wouldn't have been able to.

As for Jupiter, it's not country level, it is small town-level at most. Etherion may be country level.

Yea my bad, I was thinking about Etherion. Jupiter is still pretty damn strong though

By "mid diff" battle, I thought he was talking about Erza mid diffing Ajeel, which is utterly ridiculous. But now I see he probably meant the other way around lmao. That would make a lot more sense

 

[Tinitus]

Based on portrayal, I guess. Not above Erza though, slightly below, I think most of us pretty much agree on that.



You probably meant Mirajane's only feats :P Nah, it's based on portrayal: rank, comparison to Erza's level, etc.



Feat wise, not portrayal wise. And feats are what matters, but they're not appliable if the other part hasn't shown anything. And post-time skip Mira hasn't shown anything, really. Gajeel hasn't shown much other than some hand-to-hand against Bradman.



I agree on the fact Gray could beat Mira, but not based on "power", based on "magic compatibility". Gray's magic is very effective against demon Mirajane.



Shown, as in feats, yes; but hype/portrayal wise, they've always been stated to be equals. Mira's never had too many feats to compare...



But the thing is, we haven't seen Natsu or Laxus fight Serena. Due to hype and portrayal (Ooba stated that the four gods of ishval massively outclassed Jura), and taking into account Jura was stated to be the strongest human at that moment (although we know probably surpassed by Laxus and Glidartz), I came to think that the four gods of Ishval were amazingly powerful. I would've never thought we'd be currently ranking Natsu and Laxus above Hyberion. And I still don't, for the record. In my opinion, Hyberion is probably Laxus tier, but that's another story, and based on feats, most of you will disagree with me. We haven't seen real full power Hyberion, or Wolfheim, or Warrod, to be able to rank them, but we have seen the extent of Laxus' attacks.

What we haven't seen is full power Serena. Maybe the extent of his power is similar or surpasses that of FDKM Natsu or Laxus. We'll never know that as he died before showing his true potential. Last but not least, the succession of attacks of Serena's was quick, and deadly; but we're talking about some of the 4 most powerful magues of Ishgar; so the fact that "they were capable of standing up" does not mean that Serena's attacks are weak. It means that the 4 W saint's endurance is considerable. After all we're talking about 1 VS 4, and Serena wasn't going all out. It'd make sense to say Serena's attacks are extremely powerful, even if he was not full power, but these 4's endurance is considerable.

As for feats > everything else, that'd stand if you compared feats and feats, not feats and portrayal. Hyberion hasn't shown his full power, but Laxus has, so they can't be properly compared. Based on portrayal, Hyberion should be superior; based on feats, Laxus is simply a monster.



To be honest, I think Makarov underestimates all of his "children"... He's overprotective. He was rather surprised when he saw Gray and Lucy's new MP and techniques. I think pre-ts Erza would've given Ajeel an easy-to-mid diff, whereas post-ts gave him a mid-diff. The gap is not that wide, in my opinion. Feat-wise, I don't think she's shown anything too impressive post-time skip.



Exactly my point.



He wasn't implying Erza might have beaten Ajeel at all. He's just implying Erza gave him some difficulty that pre-ts Erza, according to Makarov's knowledge, wouldn't have been able to.

As for Jupiter, it's not country level, it is small town-level at most. Etherion may be country level.

So if you agree that Mira is on Erza's level on portrayal but doesn't have as much feats;
Why can't we accept that Gray is on Natsu level due to protrayal at base? when we see their portrayals far more than Mira does on Erza.

Seems like a double standard here.