@Axi, There is four yes, that is what I was saying:
Natsu does nothing and dies as a unconscious, indecisive human.
Natsu becomes a demon and destroys dragon seed
Natsu becomes a dragon and destroys demon seed
Natsu stays human and destroys both seeds.
One seed cannot fuse with the other when Natsu is one or the other. That is simple, as a demon (it matters not), the dragon seed would be destroyed as it cannot fuse. That is why he was transforming into a full demon.
Like I said, the way to actually become a demon is for him to go into his heart and choose one of the seeds. Natsu actually has to bear a strong will and actually be willing to decide that he wants to be a demon. When he was conscious, Natsu never willingly choose to become a demon. So he simply could not have destroyed the dragon seed. He would have had access to some of END's powers and some of his own powers, depending on his mindset, until the seeds finished merging and he died.
If he was already transforming he was already choosing, his will was strong, that is why he went to kill Zeref because that is END’s will, which is the same as choice. It doesn’t matter since he was becoming a demon anyway and the dragon seed will be destroyed anyway. He would have had END’s power anyway as he was still changing and progressing in the transformation, thus the dragon seed would be destroyed when the transformation is complete.
I don't think that Ajeel is a good comparison of Laxus and Gray's powers. They each had different motives behind their attacks.
Laxus summoned a lighting bolt from the sky, and directed it straight towards Ajeel. That was meant to be a lethal attack, so yes, I would agree that Laxus would have oneshotted Ajeel with that lightning bolt (it still wouldn't be impressive because Ajeel is a low-tier Spriggan imo)
Gray, on the other hand, was trying to stop Ajeel's Sand Monster from catching up with the vehicle. To do that, he froze a large part of the land and encased everything in ice. Ajeel just happened to be caught in that ice because he was standing on top of the Sand Monster.
In other words, Gray wasn't necessarily aiming for Ajeel alone. He was trying to stop the Sand Monster from crushing the vehicle that everybody was in.
This is different from Laxus, who was putting all his power into killing a single target.
Besides, just because Ajeel tanked a casual punch from Natsu doesn't mean that Laxus > Natsu. You'd have to compare their full power to determine who would win in a fight.
Comparing Gray and Laxus' best fights against the Spriggans, I would say that they are relatively on the same level.
Laxus stop ajeel attack from devouring Team Natsu and makarov (although i understand he didn’t let them go all out) while gray couldn’t stop any of ajeel attacks and his attack where getting eased.
Wall>invel because of weakness magic even his puesdo form gave gray problem by making him switch with Juvia.
Laxus imo show a better performance than gray Laxus was dominateing wall in hand to hand combat despite being sick and a disadvantage. While gray pretty much couldn’t do anything be4 POF kicked in.
If he was already transforming he was already choosing, his will was strong, that is why he went to kill Zeref because that is END’s will, which is the same as choice. It doesn’t matter since he was becoming a demon anyway and the dragon seed will be destroyed anyway. He would have had END’s power anyway as he was still changing and progressing in the transformation, thus the dragon seed would be destroyed when the transformation is complete.
Natsu never made the choice to be a demon. Not once in this entire series. Natsu also went half-dragon in Dragon Cry, and he certainly didn't make any choice to become a dragon back then either. Natsu just went berserk over Lucy dying, and that gave him access to some of END's curse powers. When he calmed down, END's powers simply disappeared. Choosing one of the seeds required Natsu to go into his heart to make a decision. If it didn't, then Natsu would have continued to demonize as he was in a coma. He obviously didn't. At the end of the day, there is no evidence that Natsu would have continued to transform into a full demon before the seeds fused. Lucy's death would have made Natsu the most negative he's ever been, and those negative emotions still only managed to demonize just his hands. Just thinking about his friendship with Gray and Erza was able to snap him out of it, and that right there proves that Natsu's love for the guild is stronger than his negative emotions.
Even assuming Natsu doesn't die, there is still nothing to suggest END can use flames of savage emotions. Flames of savage emotions is something Natsu can only create by turning all the love he has for the guild into magic power. Not a curse power, because getting power from love is something only magic does. Natsu then takes this magic power, and uses it in his Fire Dragon King's demolition fist. This spell is also magic spell, not a curse. Everything about the final attacks that Natsu used against Zeref is in direct opposition of END's power. Right down to the contents of Makarov's speech telling him he must not bring hatred and anger into his fights. This entire scenario where END becomes strong enough to beat Zeref is a fanfiction.
He did when he became a demon because being a demon means you have the will for it to kill Zeref. He wasn’t going to die as a demon you are assuming that. Since the dragon seed would be destroyed, no proof he was dying as a demon, he was living as a demon. And thus he can use Savage Flames as END from negative emotions since it is the greatest power of curses. Doesn’t stop him in this situation
He did when he became a demon because being a demon means you have the will for it to kill Zeref. He wasn’t going to die as a demon you are assuming that. Since the dragon seed would be destroyed, no proof he was dying as a demon, he was living as a demon. And thus he can use Savage Flames as END from negative emotions since it is the greatest power of curses. Doesn’t stop him in this situation
He never became a demon. Even when he was using END's power, he was mostly human. He won't die as a full demon, but there's nothing to suggest Natsu could have ever become a full demon without going into his heart and choosing to become one. Greatest power of curse =/= greatest power of magic. Natsu's love for his guild is far stronger than any negative emotions he had.
He was becoming a demon which is the same as being a demon as he was not dying. It doesn’t matter as he would not be human for long. The fact that he was still transforming the whole time says otherwise. Negative emotions are the greatest power for curse, plus people recognized the threat of end to Zeref
He was becoming a demon which is the same as being a demon as he was not dying. It doesn’t matter as he would not be human for long. The fact that he was still transforming the whole time says otherwise. Negative emotions are the greatest power for curse, plus people recognized the threat of end to Zeref
Not anymore than turning half dragon in Dragon Cry. Natsu was way more transformed as a dragon, and even then it was nowhere near permanent. Natsu just had some of END's powers when he was mad over Lucy's fake death. It went away when he calmed down. He couldn't become a full demon without going into his heart and choosing a seed.
Greatest power of curses isn't equal with the greatest power of magic.There's no Acnologia level demon running around. Zeref himself never recognized END's power as a threat to himself. Literally never said once that he was confident in END's power in being able kill him. In fact, Zeref said he was confident Natsu would choose to destroy END, and that he hoped it was Natsu that will face him. He also sent Natsu to be trained by Igneel instead of just waiting for END's power to grow. Says a lot.
That is different as Natsu has antibodies which prevents the dragonification, turning into a demon is different, try again. There is no proof of Natsu only using some of END’s power nor does it state that he is stuck in mid transformation, now who’s assuming. END has been stated to be the greatest threat to Zeref by others, Zeref wanted END to awaken and his power is perfect for ending Zeref’s immortality. Zeref says a lot of things, that was before he hoped for END to be awaken. That does not prove that Igneel could have Natsu kill him
That is different as Natsu has antibodies which prevents the dragonification, turning into a demon is different, try again. There is no proof of Natsu only using some of END’s power nor does it state that he is stuck in mid transformation, now who’s assuming. END has been stated to be the greatest threat to Zeref by others, Zeref wanted END to awaken and his power is perfect for ending Zeref’s immortality. Zeref says a lot of things, that was before he hoped for END to be awaken. That does not prove that Igneel could have Natsu kill him
Even with the antibodies, Natsu was more dragonized than he was demonized. Doesn't help your case. END's power was nowhere near permanent either, as merely remembering his friendship with Gray and Erza was enough to snap him out of it. Even when Natsu was using END's power, he was still mostly human. END's power wasn't permanent either. It was entirely dependent on Natsu's mood. The fact that Igneel said that the only way to choose one of the seeds is to decide on what you wanted to be is proof that the demonization would have never been complete. Natsu never made the choice to be a demon.
Zeref's opinion is quite frankly the only one that matters, and Zeref has stated that he believes Natsu will choose to destroy END and that he hopes that he will face Natsu instead of END. By the way, Zeref never stated that he hope END would be awakened. Not once. To anybody. Zeref's entire plan relied on Igneel to train Natsu to be strong enough to kill him instead of relying on END's power. This is way more relevant than whatever opinions Mard Geer, or whoever else, had on END. Zeref was END's creator, and understood the most about it. Nobody else really had a clue.
That is different and you know what, it doesn’t matter, because the demon would transform into a full demon regardless what you thinks mostly human or not he would still be a demon which disregards your point. And Zeref’s opinion contradicts itself, have your not realized that yet, it is the opinions of others that matters and others opinions state that END is a threat to Zeref, this he is powerful enough to kill Zeref
Laxus stop ajeel attack from devouring Team Natsu and makarov (although i understand he didn’t let them go all out) while gray couldn’t stop any of ajeel attacks and his attack where getting eased.
Wall>invel because of weakness magic even his puesdo form gave gray problem by making him switch with Juvia.
Laxus imo show a better performance than gray Laxus was dominateing wall in hand to hand combat despite being sick and a disadvantage. While gray pretty much couldn’t do anything be4 POF kicked in.
I don't see how Gray getting his attack erased would prove that he is weaker than Laxus. Gray's spells are made of ice and Ajeel uses Sand Magic. One property of sand is removing moisture from objects. So it makes sense that Ajeel can dry up Gray's ice with his sand, which is why Ajeel said "dessicate".
At most, Ajeel and Gray were just exchanging attacks, which is how a fight works.
And besides, Ajeel's devouring sand attack was stopped by a surprise attack from Laxus. Ajeel wasn't aware of Laxus' arrival, so he had no way to counter that move.
Also, Laxus had arial advantage. It is entirely possible that Ajeel could have maneuvered his sand to dodge Laxus' lightning bolt and trap Laxus in the sand, had Laxus been fighting on the ground. Ajeel's sand can't reach as high as the airship.
As for Wahl's Weakness Soldiers, they weren't causing any problems for Gray. The only reason why everybody in the group switched opponents was because it was more energy efficient (to save magic power). Gray was simply using intelligence in that battle to have a tactical advantage. It'd be a huge waste of energy for them to fight all those weakness soldiers at a disadvantage, especially since the robots have elements that are a perfect counter to their magic.
And I don't think Laxus was dominating Wahl at all. Wahl didn't suffer any significant damage or injury until Laxus used Red Lightning, which was a PoF move.
On the other hand, Gray was thrashing Invel in base form using hand-to-hand combat. And immediately after defeating Invel, he had to fight END, who is several tiers above Wahl and Invel.
But fair enough, you are entitled to your own opinions at the end of the day.
That is different and you know what, it doesn’t matter, because the demon would transform into a full demon regardless what you thinks mostly human or not he would still be a demon which disregards your point. And Zeref’s opinion contradicts itself, have your not realized that yet, it is the opinions of others that matters and others opinions state that END is a threat to Zeref, this he is powerful enough to kill Zeref
What is different? You say the fact that Natsu was had some demonization meant that he made a choice. That's simply not true. Natsu managed to dragonize without ever making the decision to become a dragon, and the form was not permanent. Natsu also never made the decision to become a demon, and the form was not permanent either. You can say it's different because Igneel stopped the dragon seed from growing, but it really isn't. The important point is that Igneel said that the way to choose one of the seeds was to decide what he wanted to be, and Natsu simply didn't make the choice to be a demon. Not even when he was using END's power. He wouldn't have been able to destroy the dragon seed and become a full demon. END's power would disappear the moment Natsu stopped feeling negative emotions, which would have happened when he saw that Lucy was alive even if Erza hadn't stopped him.
Even if Natsu somehow managed to turn into a full demon and not die (already a huge stretch), he still has no way of countering Fairy Heart. Flames of Savage Emotions is a magic power. Natsu turned the love he had for his guild into magic power. The specific attack Natsu used to burn time was Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist, a part of his dragon slaying magic. Saying that negative emotions is the strongest power for curses is irrelevant and meaningless. Negative emotions like hatred and sorrow are not equal to love. That's why Natsu's love for his guild made his Fire Dragon Demolition Fist stronger than Zeref's negative emotions made his Black Exploding Flame Blade. If Fairy Heart's infinite magic power and Zeref's 400 years of negative emotions couldn't make Zeref's flames as hot as Natsu's, what makes you think Natsu's grief over Lucy's fake-death would be able to? It's not as if Natsu's negative emotions at that time were unstoppable, both in the physical and mental sense. Physically, Natsu's anger didn't make him strong enough to hurt Erza. Mentally, merely remembering his friendship with Gray and Erza was able to quell his rage. Power of feelings is the ability to turn emotions into power, and Natsu's love for his guild is the strongest emotion Natsu has in his disposal.
I've actually gone and re-read all the statements regarding END. Not only has Zeref never expressed confidence that END could kill him, but actually none of the other Spriggan 12 have said END could kill him either. August and Irene simply didn't care and was more worried about Acnologia. Invel called END a hindrance, and was confident enough that he could take out END out even without Gray's devil slaying magic. So honestly the only person who said END could defeat Zeref is Mard Geer, and that guy really didn't have a clue about who END truly was. Literally couldn't recognize END when he was standing right in front of him. Zeref has never contradicted himself on this subject either. He never said that END's demon powers could kill him, and also never said that he wishes for END to be revived.
You forget that he didn’t care what he was when transformed, that means he made a choice. The partial demon transformation was in complete, that’s why. Being a full demon would have destroyed the seed anyway. Plus END can counter DH by his flames with the power of emotions. Heat till time is distorted and then kill Zeref. Invel states that END is a threat to Zeref, read again, and Zeref express confidence by congraduating that they almost resurrected END. Again, Zeref contradicts, you are stretching there
