Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

So do you think people can hide the amount of MP they have because that’s the only way this makes sense, yes I get that someone’s not going to react to someone around the same level as them (even though Laxus did later on) you would think they would know the other person’s power level

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2023 ---

I’ll ask you the same question do you think characters can hide the amount of MP they have

I would say yeah they would via in base form/casual state.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2023 ---

Natsu beat someone with infinite MP because he had Savage Flames which raised the heat to unbelievable levels which in real life would be comparable to Planck temperatures which breaks down physics in this case time. And heat can translate to power too.

 

[Axiomus]

Savage flames is a fan-made term. Nowhere innthe manga do the words "Savage flames" ever show up. What Natsu used to beat Zeref was a FDK destruction fist. Zeref thought the flames were sacred fire, but then realized it was raging flames of emotion. Anyways, Natsu's MP is finite. A finite amount of MP can make FDK Destruction Fist hot enough to burn time and defeat Fairy Heart.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2023 ---

What I want to know is how could Gray sense how strong Misaki is before she did anything while Laxus had to fight Kirin for awhile but he figured out how strong he is

Honestly, this can probably be explained away by Misaki being the type of person to flex her MP, but Kirin is not.

 

[WoWfan]

that is what we are going with since those flames are something no other flame did with them being the hottest flames and can burn time. FDK Destruction Fist did not beat Zeref the first time even with Dragon Force. raging flames of emotion is a rather clanky term for Savage Flames, The hottest flames which translates to power and which breaks down physics is basically reality warping right there, so things like infinity can be rather iffy in that regard.

 

[Axiomus]

Again, savage flames is a fan-made term. Raging flames of emotion is the actual thing Zeref said. Natsu isnt using a new type of fire here. He's simply using Flames of Emotion to make his FDK Destruction Fist stronger. All this proves is that Flames of Emotion can make FDK hotter than Dragon Force.

Breaking down physics is nothing special. Mages regularly create matter and energy, and violate all sorts of conservation laws. Bluenote's has a black hole. At the end of the day Natsu has a limited amount of magic power, is generating a limited amount of physical force and heat....And is stronger than FH Zeref

 

[WoWfan]

Savage Flames in this case is the strongest and hottest flames Natsu utilized, no other Flames of Emotions had done before. Not entirely as matter and energy does not come from nothing as they come from the atmosphere and within as well to form magic. So? Black Holes can be formed by comprehending physics too, just beyond the event horizon and to the singularity point are where physics no longer matter. Natsu’s is special since Planck Temperatures breaks down physics on a macro scale.

 

[Axiomus]

Again, "savage flames" is an entirely fan-made term. Natsu doesn't have a type of fire called "Savage flames". He used an FDK Destruction Fist and increased it's power with flames of emotion. Natsu has always used Flames of Emotion to make his flames hotter. Planck temperature doesn't break down physics. Objects gain mass as they gain energy. Planck temperature is just when particles gain so much energy their mass essentially become indistinguishable from black holes. None of which actually matters. At the end of the day, Natsu is using a finite amount of magic power to do what he's doing. No excuse is changing the fact that he's simply stronger than FH Zeref despite having lower, infinitely lower, MP.

 

[WoWfan]

That is what we call his hottest flames, flames that are not like his other types of flames. Planck Temperatures do break down physics, strange things happen that the fundamental forces become unified. What you are thinking about black holes is infinite temperature. It does as reality warping can do things that don’t follow said rules. Incorrect as Natsu was using hax with ample power to defeat Zeref.

 

[Axiomus]

The only difference is that it's hotter. Fire gets hot.

Conventional physics is just our theories. The actual physics of how the universe works dont ever break. We just dont understand them fully, so our theories break. But we already know our theories are wrong because relativity contradicts quantum mechanics, so this isnt actually a surprise. Conventional laws of physics break down inside a black hole too.

Planck temperature is a theoretical limit on how much energy the universe can have. Heat is energy. Particles gain mass as they gain energy. Anything that gains sufficient mass will collapse into a black hole. No, this isnt infinite temperature. Planck temperature is just a calculation of the maximum amount of heat possible before all the mass of the universe collapses into a black hole. Conventional laws of physics dont breakdown at planck temperature. They only break down once you exceed it. Also, planck temperature doesnt burn time. The universe was at planck temperature shortly after the big bang. Time existed and moved forward. That's how things cooled down. The article you cited actually mentions this in the paragraph above. The author is simply being imprecise when it says conventional physics breaks down at planck T.

Anyways, none of this matters. Even if Natsu managed to reach planck temperature, he's still using a finite amount of MP to generate a finite amount of heat....and beating a guy with infinite MP.

 

[WoWfan]

And that there is more to what the fire can affect, it doesn’t matter if they are “theories” or not as even conventional physics is still used today for almost everyday things such as engineering, architecture or technology. Planck Temperature says otherwise or inside singularities or even faster than light which breaks causality and be essentially time travel. Black holes are different from singularities which is where the former inside stretches space and time to unbelievable degree while singularities are were tou try to divide by zero. Relativistic and Quantum mechanics just expand our understanding of the universe on both a small and close to lightspeed. Planck Temperature is the upper limits for which physics models can operate where all matter is accelerated to lightspeed, the paragraph above says it would affect time and space. incorrect as going beyond even that to an infinite degree would lead to black hole such as the one before the big bang. Not at all as such temperatures warp reality to allow him to beat Zeref with hax, the image before tells you otherwise. Not so as that is only at a planck scale, not relativistic scale which would happen here, not so as he would havr corrected himself.

EDIT: Also this Video which is from the same people talks about how physics breaks down at Planck Temperature, a split second “after” the universe was born.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2023 ---

Besides that at that point Zeref was definitely contender to being one of the strongest beings around, even stronger than the DGs as his nerfed state could damage even Aldoron in it’s dragon form, something that required the GS to kill itself before it could complete the task.

 

[Axiomus]

The article you linked is talking about temperatures above planck. The guy is saying we dont have a theory to describe what happens above planck, but that doesnt mean it's impossible. He goes on to say we know that black holes and the beginning of the universe contain singularities, which have infinite heat. The video you linked barely talks about the planck temperature.

Planck temperature is not the temperature of the beginning of the universe. That's the temperature of the singualrity at the moment of the big bang. Planck temperature is the temperature of the universe a split second after the big bang. It has a finite value of 10^32 K. This is why I say none of this matters. Natsu is still using a finite amount of MP to generate a finite amount of heat.

 

[WoWfan]

the only thing it talks about above planck temperture is infinite degrees which are singularities in black holes, they are in the same article, in the previous one the Planck Temperature still breaks down physics, he said the rules would have to change, not that there isn’t. That is still the same group that talks about this, and said that it is at a split moment after the big bang at planck temperatures. No, that is the temperature after the big bang at the smallest moment, the temperature of the singularity is infinite heat, or rather be considered negative temperature. It does matter because with physics breaking down it is warping reality, thus hax against Zeref With burning time.

 

[Axiomus]

I dunno why you are still arguing this. Planck temperature is 10^32K. That's a finite number. Even if Natsu is reaching planck temperatures (which itself is a reach), he's still using a finite amount of MP to create a finite amount of heat.

Natsu just hits harder than Zeref. If he didnt, his punch wouldnt have overpowered Zeref's. If all Natsu was doing was burning time and magic, but his punch was physically weaker than Zeref's, Zeref would have still won that exchange.

 

[WoWfan]

(Technically higher) Sure but that amount of heat which would translate to power would be universal in attack potency, which is necessary against someone like Zeref who was going to destroy and create a new universe, and combined with reality warping would give it hax worthiness. That was the point of overcoming Zeref’s defenses, it’s two fold, both power and hax.

 

[Axiomus]

Scaling Natsu to universal (lol) just means every character stronger than him scales higher. Even if Natsu has universal (lol) attack power, that's still a finite amount of power. Natsu is still beating Zeref with infinitely less magic power than Zeref has.

Natsu just made his flames really hot. That's not hax. That's using raw power to overcome the hax of rewinding time.

 

[WoWfan]

Not even so, Natsu has not reached that level at all since Zeref’s fight because his heat resistance reached its limits with the flames heat and burns even him. That doesn’t make his power any less affective especially with reality warping which makes stats or amount of MP. His flames were stated to burn time itself. Something no flames did before even in reality.

 

[Axiomus]

Ignia's flames burned Natsu too.

 

[WoWfan]

But Ignia’s are special, he even said that with his element against he was at a disadvantage againsf even water, that is wwhy he has special flames.

 

[Axiomus]

Special in what way? They're just hot.

They also gave Natsu the strength to stomp Mercphobia physically. Natsu with Ignia's flames would stomp the Natsu that beat Zeref. Both have flames hot enough to burn each other, but Natsu with Ignia's flames is on a whole different level when it comes to stats.

 

[WoWfan]

His are special as in his particular fire is what burns water as any other flame is at a disadvantage to it otherwise. Because his flames belongs to Ignia’s which is special at to burn anything. No as Ignia’s never shown to burn time like Natsu’s can simply by turning up the heat to its max. Natsu’s shown before that to have trouble with water, much like that of Ignia’s before utilizing his special flames.

https://official.lowee.us/manga/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest/0020-014.png

 

[Darklord#10]

If Natsu punches you with fire dragon flames and you tank it, you are more impressive than someone who gets knocked out by a punch with fire dragon king flames.

This doesn't make sense to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 27, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 27, 2023 ---

World of God is irrelevant if he can't show feats for characters. They remain nothing but hype.