The BDSK are all more or less on the same level.
That has been established throughout the 100 year quest. Suzaku feats at first was used to hype up the BDSK. That's been happening in fairy tail for a long time. Every time there is a villain group Mashima uses one or two them to hype up the rest of the group without giving them feats. Jackal for the 9 demon gates, Brandish and God Serena for spriggans, etc. Not everyone in an arc is going to have a feats. Suzaku has the best feats of the BDSK no doubt. But stating he is strongest or above everyone else just because he has the most feats. We have to rely on statements as well when comparing the BDSK. Because not all of them have insane feats. Suzaku only stalemated Natsu, while Kirin and Misaki got compared to the strongest person fairy tail( magic power wise). Kirin was beating down Laxus, who had way less trouble than Natsu against the Diabolos trio. Misaki had gray and gajeel shivering just from magic power. Even Erza at the start of the their fight. Kirin and Misaki have more magic power than Suzaku as well as superior abilities and hax despite him being more durable and strength. Suzaku would lose in a fight against Miaski to her hax. Also if not I'm mistaken Mashima had ranked Natsu and Laxus in one of his videos recently. He put Laxus higher than Natsu aside from "MC buffs". Kirin beating down Laxus is more impressive than Suzaku stalemating Natsu who only used fire dragon king attacks and a technique he just recently developed. But if you can't accept Suzaku not being the strongest of the BDSK they're at least on the same level. There is No "Suzaku>>>>> Kirin > Misaki > Haku. " Question, would yall still think Suzaku was the strongest if he got bested and beat by Erza in their second round?
The only thing that put them on the same level is Madmole statement where he said PEHARPS, word used to express uncertainty or possibility, so it can't be used as a source to validate their absolute equality. Your examples don't even help you. Some of the 9 demon gates are easily stronger than others, it was said that Keith was the weakest, demons like Kyouka and Torafuzar are obviously stronger than Jackal, actually in no moment they were suggested as equals, Jackal wasn't even a good hypetool for them, the best tartarus fighters only fought later. For the spriggans while most of them were equalized God Serena by himself shouldn't be the case
Mashima himself ranked Serena above Laxus at a moment, this puts him above any spriggan not named August or Irene, even Larcade is arguably
Feats is what should matter the most in this series, but even by statement scaling nothing is saying Kirin is stronger than Suzaku outside of Kirin himself who proved to be a biased source, the non biased source aka Selene didn't even the guts to say he is anything beyond ONE OF THE strongest. And again the only thing saying BDSK are all relative is a PEHARPS. Why should the Gildarts comparison matter if Suzaku looks stronger than Gildarts himself? Natsu needed to use Dragon Scales against him to not be one shotted again, people like to downplay Natsu but the fact is at his non DF peak even Mashima don't knows who is stronger between him and Laxus, this was not even the first time he said that, only Natsu without MC buffs is weaker than Laxus and equal to Gray and Gajeel but against Suzaku Dragon King Scales is obviously a buff. Natsu power varies a lot and against Diabolos trio he certainly wasn't at his peak. Laxus is the one who have to leech Natsu feats to look impressive now.
Misaki blue dimension hax can be countred by people with high magic power which don't even needs to be solidly higher than hers like Erza while i have solid reasons to believe Suzaku easily counters it by being marginally above her, besides Kirin also should have countered blue dimension in their sparring match
And no there is no reason to accept that Suzaku isn't >>>>>>>>Kirin, the word PEHARPS does not save Kirn or any BDSK
If Erza have defeated him he probably wouldn't be really the strongest, but the reality is Erza did not defeated him and so his position wasn't debunked, but that's it, one thing is reality, other thing is a hypothetical scenario
The only thing that put them on the same level is Madmole statement where he said PEHARPS, word used to express uncertainty or possibility, so it can't be used as a source to validate their absolute equality. Your examples don't even help you. Some of the 9 demon gates are easily stronger than others, it was said that Keith was the weakest, demons like Kyouka and Torafuzar are obviously stronger than Jackal, actually in no moment they were suggested as equals, Jackal wasn't even a good hypetool for them, the best tartarus fighters only fought later. For the spriggans while most of them were equalized God Serena by himself shouldn't be the case
Mashima himself ranked Serena above Laxus at a moment, this puts him above any spriggan not named August or Irene, even Larcade is arguably
Feats is what should matter the most in this series, but even by statement scaling nothing is saying Kirin is stronger than Suzaku outside of Kirin himself who proved to be a biased source, the non biased source aka Selene didn't even the guts to say he is anything beyond ONE OF THE strongest. And again the only thing saying BDSK are all relative is a PEHARPS. Why should the Gildarts comparison matter if Suzaku looks stronger than Gildarts himself? Natsu needed to use Dragon Scales against him to not be one shotted again, people like to downplay Natsu but the fact is at his non DF peak even Mashima don't knows who is stronger between him and Laxus, this was not even the first time he said that, only Natsu without MC buffs is weaker than Laxus and equal to Gray and Gajeel but against Suzaku Dragon King Scales is obviously a buff. Natsu power varies a lot and against Diabolos trio he certainly wasn't at his peak. Laxus is the one who have to leech Natsu feats to look impressive now.
Misaki blue dimension hax can be countred by people with high magic power which don't even needs to be solidly higher than hers like Erza while i have solid reasons to believe Suzaku easily counters it by being marginally above her, besides Kirin also should have countered blue dimension in their sparring match
And no there is no reason to accept that Suzaku isn't >>>>>>>>Kirin, the word PEHARPS does not save Kirn or any BDSK
If Erza have defeated him he probably wouldn't be really the strongest, but the reality is Erza did not defeated him and so his position wasn't debunked, but that's it, one thing is reality, other thing is a hypothetical scenario
I'm pretty sure in chapter 91 of the fairy tail 100 year quest, when Selene was talking about Suzaku and his power level and she asked "Are there any others in the guild like Suzaku," Madmole replied "Th...There are three more." As well as later in the chapter Selene states "To start, bring Suzaku and those of his rank together." So yes they are more or less on the same level as Suzaku. Hypothetically a lot of people want Suzaku to be a lot stronger than he actually is just because he fought Natsu, when in reality... he isn't.
Suzaku would not be able to move in Misaki dimension. Erza telekinesis is what allowed her to move. And by Misaki reaction Kirin wasn't able to override her dimension like Erza did since they had similar magic power.
When Selene was talking about the strongest she brought up Laxus and Kirin, when Kiria was talking about the strongest she brought Erza, Laxus and Misaki despite her fancying over Suzaku for "defeating" human Selene in chapter 90. I don't underrate Suzaku nor Natsu I just don't put them at level yall want them to be at. Aside from DF Natsu being the strongest in the Guild, so there's that. It's clear as crystal Kirin is supposed to be the strongest knight, with Misaki as the second.
(Tho I don't know why where still discussing the BDSK power rankings, as we should be discussing the new arc we're in. Wed is supposed to be stronger than the BDSK. And we know Erza will beat him. Hopefully this arc is better than the last one)
The BDSK are all more or less on the same level.
That has been established throughout the 100 year quest. Suzaku feats at first was used to hype up the BDSK. That's been happening in fairy tail for a long time. Every time there is a villain group Mashima uses one or two them to hype up the rest of the group without giving them feats. Jackal for the 9 demon gates, Brandish and God Serena for spriggans, etc. Not everyone in an arc is going to have a feats. Suzaku has the best feats of the BDSK no doubt. But stating he is strongest or above everyone else just because he has the most feats. We have to rely on statements as well when comparing the BDSK. Because not all of them have insane feats. Suzaku only stalemated Natsu, while Kirin and Misaki got compared to the strongest person fairy tail( magic power wise). Kirin was beating down Laxus, who had way less trouble than Natsu against the Diabolos trio. Misaki had gray and gajeel shivering just from magic power. Even Erza at the start of the their fight. Kirin and Misaki have more magic power than Suzaku as well as superior abilities and hax despite him being more durable and strength. Suzaku would lose in a fight against Miaski to her hax. Also if not I'm mistaken Mashima had ranked Natsu and Laxus in one of his videos recently. He put Laxus higher than Natsu aside from "MC buffs". Kirin beating down Laxus is more impressive than Suzaku stalemating Natsu who only used fire dragon king attacks and a technique he just recently developed. But if you can't accept Suzaku not being the strongest of the BDSK they're at least on the same level. There is No "Suzaku>>>>> Kirin > Misaki > Haku. " Question, would yall still think Suzaku was the strongest if he got bested and beat by Erza in their second round?
So much hypocrisy in your statements, it's really becoming ridiculous, let me debunk you:
- You say that the BDSK were declared equal by Madmole but then you are going to push your agenda again to put Misaki and Kirin above Suzaku. This is pure hypocrisy because you don't want to accept that Suzaku has the best feats in BDSK. If Misaki had faced Dogramag with Erza you would have also declared them as the strongest so you can't accuse us of Suzaku wankers when you do the same with Erza and her opponents. If you want to declare them as equal then keep them as equal until the end instead of being dishonest.
- Mashima never ranked Laxus above Natsu without power-ups he said "Laxus or Natsu" which implies that he does not know who is stronger of the two. And it's ridiculous to believe the statements that suit you and to reshape them to your liking and to ignore others. Face it, you and the other Erza fans have been telling us for months that Hiro said that Erza was stronger than all versions of Natsu, you went so far as to say that she could have defeated Aldoron like Natsu did, you even said that Dragon Force Natsu can’t tank Meteor Blade, ignoring that Natsu at Base tanked several deadly attacks from Aldoron. If you believe that Mashima stated that Laxus or Erza are stronger than Natsu even without his MC buffs then you must also believe that God Serena is above Laxus, stated after the Gold Owl arc where this same God Serena was defeated by Jellal who everyone underestimates and views as fodder for Laxus, and you have to believe that Gray and Gajeel are equal to Natsu when Gajeel barely lost to LFD Natsu and when Gray has no feats that put him on par with Natsu even without Dragon Force or others power ups.
- How is Kirin beating Laxus' ass more impressive than Suzaku beating Natsu to the point where he needs special measures between focusing all his magic on defense or using the limited maze space to his advantage ? He would have won if Ignia had not arrived with his flames which protected Natsu at the last moment. Kirin couldn't even knock out Laxus even by hitting him with a random coffin and Laxus was able to eat his magic to defeat him it's a shame to declare this fraud as the strongest BDSK after that.
- If Erza surpasses Suzaku in this new arc it will just rank her higher, it won't take away from Suzaku's previous feats against Dogramag and Natsu and it won't put him below Misaki or Kirin. It's typical for the good guys to surpass the bad guys one or two arcs later after being beaten by them and again I'm sure that Diabolos and Selene will participate in this war between humans and dragons.
Sorry for my long rants but my god I'm disgusted with all this Erza/Laxus wank who didn't do anything special in 100YQ and who never faced even weakened DGs and then being accused Natsu or Suzaku wanker because that I present their CANONS feats instead of inventing headcanons and fake fights to debunk them like Erza fans or Laxus wankers do.
Sorry for my long rants but my god I'm disgusted with all this Erza/Laxus wank who didn't do anything special in 100YQ and who never faced even weakened DGs and then being accused Natsu or Suzaku wanker because that I present their CANONS feats instead of inventing headcanons and fake fights to debunk them like Erza fans or Laxus wankers do.
the problem is in the story. no one is allowed to fight the boss other than natsu. Erza, laxus or their opponents have very low chance of showing feats which will satisfy you
Cause pointing out that Erza, who was clearly outmatched by Mystogan and Laxus back in the day. (Looking at their performance during phantom arc and his rebellion specifically) Could have been compared to them, which wouldn't have made her their equal, but would have been true because she's a S class too.
I'm pretty sure in chapter 91 of the fairy tail 100 year quest, when Selene was talking about Suzaku and his power level and she asked "Are there any others in the guild like Suzaku," Madmole replied "Th...There are three more." As well as later in the chapter Selene states "To start, bring Suzaku and those of his rank together." So yes they are more or less on the same level as Suzaku. Hypothetically a lot of people want Suzaku to be a lot stronger than he actually is just because he fought Natsu, when in reality... he isn't.
Suzaku would not be able to move in Misaki dimension. Erza telekinesis is what allowed her to move. And by Misaki reaction Kirin wasn't able to override her dimension like Erza did since they had similar magic power.
When Selene was talking about the strongest she brought up Laxus and Kirin, when Kiria was talking about the strongest she brought Erza, Laxus and Misaki despite her fancying over Suzaku for "defeating" human Selene in chapter 90. I don't underrate Suzaku nor Natsu I just don't put them at level yall want them to be at. Aside from DF Natsu being the strongest in the Guild, so there's that. It's clear as crystal Kirin is supposed to be the strongest knight, with Misaki as the second.
(Tho I don't know why where still discussing the BDSK power rankings, as we should be discussing the new arc we're in. Wed is supposed to be stronger than the BDSK. And we know Erza will beat him. Hopefully this arc is better than the last one)
It was just fan translation, if you wanna do a serious statement scaling you must use official translations which i already provided with the links, some pics aren't working well here but i'm putting the link
Nothing debunks Suzaku superiority in official translations, the fan translation clearly omitted the ''perharps'', they usually don't change the entire meaning of phrases like the Kirin contender stuff, but for serious scaling you must use ''one of the strongest'' instead of contender. The fan translation even provoked a huge misconception about Signarios being stronger than God Serena when reality is he just said they were more frightening than him, due to their feats i have no reason to not assume that Signarios are just literally more frightening than him but weaker than him.
Backing to Suzaku i have no real reason to push Natsu agenda, he is far from being one of my favs, but if the fact is he is one of the strongest in the guild even without DF i can't do nothing but face reality, even the author himself confirms that MC buffed Natsu is Laxus tier. honestly what seems to me is othwerwise, it seems that there is a Laxus or Erza agenda trying to downgrade Suzaku but reality is that these agendas have to embitter the fact that feat scaling is against them and serious statetment scaling don't help them.
Erza power was overwriting Misaki dimension in the end, why wouldn't Suzaku do the same if he is stronger than Erza and Misaki? Nothing outside of pure headcanon put any of the BDSK above Suzaku, so by feats he is solidly above. Kirin also should have done that in their sparring match like i said, Misaki was just surprised with Erza, it wasn't like she said ''it never happened before'', but if this indeed never happened before it's just worse for Kirin, Suzaku should still have more magic power than Erza and Misaki.
Again Selene literally just said TWO OF THE STRONGEST, if she have said THE TWO STRONGEST you would have a point, but with the ''two of the'' she just menat that they were among the strongest in their respective guilds, not that both were top 1, assuming that is stretching and no serious scaling. Don't remember Kyria saying anything relevant, pretty sure she was quoting examples. Show me any direct and reliable statement of Kirin and Misaki ranking, thre isn't, your ranking is ABSOLUTE HEADCANON, they CAN'T leech Suzaku feats with official statements, face reality.
By feats Wed is barely above Misaki, he might be much stronger with his dragonized form but when CURRENT Erza beat him we can rank her higher, but this won't debuk Suzaku past feats
It was just fan translation, if you wanna do a serious statement scaling you must use official translations which i already provided with the links, some pics aren't working well here but i'm putting the link
Nothing debunks Suzaku superiority in official translations, the fan translation clearly omitted the ''perharps'', they usually don't change the entire meaning of phrases like the Kirin contender stuff, but for serious scaling you must use ''one of the strongest'' instead of contender. The fan translation even provoked a huge misconception about Signarios being stronger than God Serena when reality is he just said they were more frightening than him, due to their feats i have no reason to not assume that Signarios are just literally more frightening than him but weaker than him.
Backing to Suzaku i have no real reason to push Natsu agenda, he is far from being one of my favs, but if the fact is he is one of the strongest in the guild even without DF i can't do nothing but face reality, even the author himself confirms that MC buffed Natsu is Laxus tier. honestly what seems to me is othwerwise, it seems that there is a Laxus or Erza agenda trying to downgrade Suzaku but reality is that these agendas have to embitter the fact that feat scaling is against them and serious statetment scaling don't help them.
Erza power was overwriting Misaki dimension in the end, why wouldn't Suzaku do the same if he is stronger than Erza and Misaki? Nothing outside of pure headcanon put any of the BDSK above Suzaku, so by feats he is solidly above. Kirin also should have done that in their sparring match like i said, Misaki was just surprised with Erza, it wasn't like she said ''it never happened before'', but if this indeed never happened before it's just worse for Kirin, Suzaku should still have more magic power than Erza and Misaki.
Again Selene literally just said TWO OF THE STRONGEST, if she have said THE TWO STRONGEST you would have a point, but with the ''two of the'' she just menat that they were among the strongest in their respective guilds, not that both were top 1, assuming that is stretching and no serious scaling. Don't remember Kyria saying anything relevant, pretty sure she was quoting examples. Show me any direct and reliable statement of Kirin and Misaki ranking, thre isn't, your ranking is ABSOLUTE HEADCANON, they CAN'T leech Suzaku feats with official statements, face reality.
By feats Wed is barely above Misaki, he might be much stronger with his dragonized form but when CURRENT Erza beat him we can rank her higher, but this won't debuk Suzaku past feats
Don't you think if Suzaku had more magic power than Misaki/Erza Natsu would have hinted at? I mean both Laxus and Gray made a statement on Kirin and Misaki Gildarts level magic power. Can't say the same for Suzaku. Anyway, Suzaku is not as strong as you make him out to be. He is on the same level as the rest of the BDSK. There is no gap between them buddy.
( Despite their AWFUL performance against Erza, God Serena admitted inferiority. He's the type of God who boasts about his strength. So he knows when someone stronger than him. As well as the fact Ennie claimed she can kill God Serena. And him being frightened says a lot.) Tip: when power scaling don't rely SOLELY on feats, a lot of the time people completely ignore the context that align with those feats.
Ex. Natsu and Erza would be far stronger than Laxus, Gildarts and everyone else because of their feats in the Alvarez Arc. My girl Lucy would be stronger than Gray because of her feats against Kiria. Tho I don't think she could beat him she would definitely give him a run for his money.
Gray would be stronger than Natsu, since he beat Hakune, and him and Natsu loss to her at first( Which obviously isn't true). Fairy tail has inconsistent scaling, and it's hard to scale when feats contradicts statements, vice versa.
Don't you think if Suzaku had more magic power than Misaki/Erza Natsu would have hinted at? I mean both Laxus and Gray made a statement on Kirin and Misaki Gildarts level magic power. Can't say the same for Suzaku. Anyway, Suzaku is not as strong as you make him out to be. He is on the same level as the rest of the BDSK. There is no gap between them buddy.
( Despite their AWFUL performance against Erza, God Serena admitted inferiority. He's the type of God who boasts about his strength. So he knows when someone stronger than him. As well as the fact Ennie claimed she can kill God Serena. And him being frightened says a lot.) Tip: when power scaling don't rely SOLELY on feats, a lot of the time people completely ignore the context that align with those feats.
Ex. Natsu and Erza would be far stronger than Laxus, Gildarts and everyone else because of their feats in the Alvarez Arc. My girl Lucy would be stronger than Gray because of her feats against Kiria. Tho I don't think she could beat him she would definitely give him a run for his money.
Gray would be stronger than Natsu, since he beat Hakune, and him and Natsu loss to her at first( Which obviously isn't true). Fairy tail has inconsistent scaling, and it's hard to scale when feats contradicts statements, vice versa.
So your only argument for Suzaku not having higher power is because it wasn't said so? Dude build his power level by himself without having to leech other people's feats and is penalized fot this Suzaku has better feats than Gildarts, stop insisting in downgrading him with just an PEHARPS and a self boast
Dude i showed the official God Srena statement, he just said ''You think i'm FRIGHTENING, they are worse'' No reason to assume he admitted inferiority if their performance don't back up with it and when he could have said that they are LITERALLY more frightening than him. God Serena is STRONGER than both sisters unless someone shows me a DIRECT and IRREFUTABLE statement about Serena inferiority. As of now no reason to think he was powerscaling himself lower, just praising them and Guiltina while downplaying Ishgar. Seriously this guy still thought Gods of Ishgar were relevants, ofcourse he would praise Guiltina for having Gold Owl.
Even adding context nothing helps you, you are just overreacting some statements that didn't even make a direct scaling. Two of the strongest is not the same of ''the two strongest'', ''perharps'' gives the idea of uncertainty and the word frightening don't means powerful or strong.
At Alvarez Natsu had some power ups which actually put him above anyone else, but Erza was weaker than Ajeel, she just have Wendy to counter Irene enchantments and give her slayer advantage in the end, even by feats Erza was below even Gajeel and Gray. Current 100YQ just scales Lucy to Brandish who is low end spriggan, and Kyria don't have to be stronger than Skullion, yes Gray is carried by Natsu rivalry but even Lucy feats are not enogh to rank her higher than Gray if you have good will with him. Both Natsu and Erza always jobs at arc beginning, i only rank their feats when they are serious, just like serious Erza curbstomped Luso while at the start of the arc she jobbed to her.
It's not just an opinion that Laxus and Kirin are just one of the strongest in their guild, it's exactly what Selene said in official translations, even fan translations just put Kirin as a mere contender, he cannot leech Suzaku feats with any of that.
The only one who said Kirin was the strongest Diabolos member was Kirin himself, so if one accepts his statement this one will have to accept God Serena saying he is stronger than Gildarts too. Both are visibly arrogants, Kirin even coped about being one shotted, disregarding one statement and accepting other is pure bias and double standards. But the fact is both aren't realible sources, Selene is the only who without any bias hyped Kirin, and her statement is far from enough to put Kirin above Suzaku.
Fairy Tail scaling can be bullshit specially after last chapter, but by feats Suzaku is superior and there is no reliable statement debunking this. Suzaku one shotted Erza and no, Erza have already fought is not a excuse, first thing Misaki did was damage Erza with hours of pain and Erza still soloed Misaki after taking hours of pain, so Suzaku>>>Kirin>=Misaki as Kirin should still be around her. Besides Suzaku one shotted both Erza and Natsu without a named attack. Yes Suzaku feats put him solidly above the rest of BDSK and no real statement disregard this. People overreact Madmole statement equalizing the BDSK but reality is that: when Selene asked if there were people as strong as Suzaku in the guild, Madmole said PERHARPS 3. He said ''perharps 3'', not ''certainly there are 3'', he just compared them because they were at same rank, no concrete and irrefutably evidence that all of them are equals.
Now about Battle of Fairy Tail, Mystogan said Gildarts was the strongest mage and Laxus only replied that Gildarts was never there so him and Mystogan were the two strongest mages. Mystogan didn't even defended Erza as much as he does in the anime, he just says she isn't weak as Laxus suggested, besides Tenrou also made it clear that Laxus was solidly above Erza. Erza only reached Laxus level in Aldoron arc
Yo, Godslayer, dope name. Welcome to the owning circle. What other contender other than Laxus and KIrin did she mention. You are now the 3rd volunteer, lets see if we can get an answer to that finally. Whom else did Selene state was a contender. I have waited for weeks, but i'm willing to wait a bit more. Oh, and what was your counter to MIsaki's statment? You seem to have forgotten it in your response. The assessment of a Dragon God, specifically the DG that all of Suzaku's impressive feats are against would seem to hold plenty of weight. In fact, could you explain to me why it doesn't for you?
Kirin saying he didn't really lose, because he couldn't cut loose in that enviroment is your counter argument? So are we debating every gag statment made or joke shown? Cause Gag Gajeel one-shot haku, and gag Laxus keeps one shotting Natsu and Gajeel soooooo. Lemme know if that's the genuine route you wanna go.
Sooooo, how are you getting around the multiple statements about the BDSK being equals. Did you bring a supporting argument? Madmole saying perhaps would carry more weight if he was the team leader introducing the idea of BDSK, but we learned about it from Skullion, who was actually in the know. An Madmole is shown as just reacting to the news. So everything after that point is conjecture on your part. Can you provide Suzaku stating he's stronger, or that they aren't his equals? We got opinions on the heirarchy from Misaki and Kirin, did either of them think Suzaku is above them or worth mentioning in the conversation. Cuase from what I see, your argument is you don't like scaling. Which is less an argument and more of a personal issue. Cause his fellows scale to those feats, by virtue of being his equals, and a counter argument of "well their just his euqal in status" would be a good argument if this wasn't FT and we didn't know the ranks in the guilds are based on abilitiy and power. Thats how it works. Though if you have any of those, feel free to provide them.
God Serena being stronger than the GIldarts he saw in Alvarez isn't a stretch. In fact, since Gildarts revealed he's always wanted the chance to see who's stronger. Why wouldn't God Seren be knowledgable of Gildarts of the West and why would he think he is weaker than him. His making that statement flows with his character perfectly. Now if you have some reason for us to believe he's interacted with Gildarts since joining Gold Owl then we can really dive into and debate his throw away opinion. Did you have something to make it like, an actual argument.
So far biggest win of this post was convincing @Garmadooon it was safe to poke his head back out.
the problem is in the story. no one is allowed to fight the boss other than natsu. Erza, laxus or their opponents have very low chance of showing feats which will satisfy you
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
sorry for interrupting.
but what?
when was erza outmatched in "(Looking at their performance during phantom arc and his rebellion specifically)"
Mystogan looked slightly weaker than laxus in ff arc. erza and laxus exchange was a stalemate in ff arc. what more feats do you have?
WELCOME BACK!!!! Erza looked weaker than Laxus and she looked weaker than Mystogan, and Jellal literally bodied her. Whats up with the question? Mystogan and Laxus had a slightly equal exchange, if you ingore Laxus absolutely tanking all his big spells. An since we haven't had a ton of "amazing" mystogan spells revealed later, and Laxus had an entire arsenal of spells he wasn't using. Yeah. Erza countered one base lightning bolt but needed her lightning armor. That isn't enought to claim looking equal. Especially when he turns aroung and 2v1s Natsu and Gajeel right after.
So much hypocrisy in your statements, it's really becoming ridiculous, let me debunk you:
- You say that the BDSK were declared equal by Madmole but then you are going to push your agenda again to put Misaki and Kirin above Suzaku. This is pure hypocrisy because you don't want to accept that Suzaku has the best feats in BDSK. If Misaki had faced Dogramag with Erza you would have also declared them as the strongest so you can't accuse us of Suzaku wankers when you do the same with Erza and her opponents. If you want to declare them as equal then keep them as equal until the end instead of being dishonest.
- Mashima never ranked Laxus above Natsu without power-ups he said "Laxus or Natsu" which implies that he does not know who is stronger of the two. And it's ridiculous to believe the statements that suit you and to reshape them to your liking and to ignore others. Face it, you and the other Erza fans have been telling us for months that Hiro said that Erza was stronger than all versions of Natsu, you went so far as to say that she could have defeated Aldoron like Natsu did, you even said that Dragon Force Natsu can’t tank Meteor Blade, ignoring that Natsu at Base tanked several deadly attacks from Aldoron. If you believe that Mashima stated that Laxus or Erza are stronger than Natsu even without his MC buffs then you must also believe that God Serena is above Laxus, stated after the Gold Owl arc where this same God Serena was defeated by Jellal who everyone underestimates and views as fodder for Laxus, and you have to believe that Gray and Gajeel are equal to Natsu when Gajeel barely lost to LFD Natsu and when Gray has no feats that put him on par with Natsu even without Dragon Force or others power ups.
- How is Kirin beating Laxus' ass more impressive than Suzaku beating Natsu to the point where he needs special measures between focusing all his magic on defense or using the limited maze space to his advantage ? He would have won if Ignia had not arrived with his flames which protected Natsu at the last moment. Kirin couldn't even knock out Laxus even by hitting him with a random coffin and Laxus was able to eat his magic to defeat him it's a shame to declare this fraud as the strongest BDSK after that.
- If Erza surpasses Suzaku in this new arc it will just rank her higher, it won't take away from Suzaku's previous feats against Dogramag and Natsu and it won't put him below Misaki or Kirin. It's typical for the good guys to surpass the bad guys one or two arcs later after being beaten by them and again I'm sure that Diabolos and Selene will participate in this war between humans and dragons.
Sorry for my long rants but my god I'm disgusted with all this Erza/Laxus wank who didn't do anything special in 100YQ and who never faced even weakened DGs and then being accused Natsu or Suzaku wanker because that I present their CANONS feats instead of inventing headcanons and fake fights to debunk them like Erza fans or Laxus wankers do.
I read all your posts, you didn't provide an argument for Suzaku being above anybody. Did you have one? Cause this sounds allot like a long rant about scaling, and the end result is still kinda, get over it? All the BDSK scale to Suzaku's feats against Selene. You've had weeks and have yet to debunk that, and now you're getting all hyped because buddy is making a big deal of the word Perhaps. Is your arguement you think only Suzaku could have supported Natsu in that fight? is there a reason?
Mashima saying he doesn't know who's stronger means Natsu hasn't surpassed Laxus without MC buffs. Meaning outside of DF, it's a toss up at best. How is that a win for you? i"m listening dude. Mashima ranked the DS and God Serena made the list, but Suzaku didn't though. He's weaker than Natsu and Laxus. Natsu as we were told needs the MC buffs to outrank Laxus. This is straight from Mashima. Your arguent is scaling doesn't matter, just feats. Now personally. I agree with Mashima, with 8 different lacrima and DS attributes i'm putting GS above a ton of folks in power. Now what?
It was just fan translation, if you wanna do a serious statement scaling you must use official translations which i already provided with the links, some pics aren't working well here but i'm putting the link
Nothing debunks Suzaku superiority in official translations, the fan translation clearly omitted the ''perharps'', they usually don't change the entire meaning of phrases like the Kirin contender stuff, but for serious scaling you must use ''one of the strongest'' instead of contender. The fan translation even provoked a huge misconception about Signarios being stronger than God Serena when reality is he just said they were more frightening than him, due to their feats i have no reason to not assume that Signarios are just literally more frightening than him but weaker than him.
Backing to Suzaku i have no real reason to push Natsu agenda, he is far from being one of my favs, but if the fact is he is one of the strongest in the guild even without DF i can't do nothing but face reality, even the author himself confirms that MC buffed Natsu is Laxus tier. honestly what seems to me is othwerwise, it seems that there is a Laxus or Erza agenda trying to downgrade Suzaku but reality is that these agendas have to embitter the fact that feat scaling is against them and serious statetment scaling don't help them.
Erza power was overwriting Misaki dimension in the end, why wouldn't Suzaku do the same if he is stronger than Erza and Misaki? Nothing outside of pure headcanon put any of the BDSK above Suzaku, so by feats he is solidly above. Kirin also should have done that in their sparring match like i said, Misaki was just surprised with Erza, it wasn't like she said ''it never happened before'', but if this indeed never happened before it's just worse for Kirin, Suzaku should still have more magic power than Erza and Misaki.
Again Selene literally just said TWO OF THE STRONGEST, if she have said THE TWO STRONGEST you would have a point, but with the ''two of the'' she just menat that they were among the strongest in their respective guilds, not that both were top 1, assuming that is stretching and no serious scaling. Don't remember Kyria saying anything relevant, pretty sure she was quoting examples. Show me any direct and reliable statement of Kirin and Misaki ranking, thre isn't, your ranking is ABSOLUTE HEADCANON, they CAN'T leech Suzaku feats with official statements, face reality.
By feats Wed is barely above Misaki, he might be much stronger with his dragonized form but when CURRENT Erza beat him we can rank her higher, but this won't debuk Suzaku past feats
Did you provide something that debunks that? Cause so far your entire counter argument comes down to the c-string guy saying PErhaps instead of certainly. An that aint it.
The overall message of that statement is still Ishgar is weak compared to others, and he literally uses himself the Guild Master, and the aces. What makes it not a statement on their rankings?
You just said the Author himself confirmed MC buffed Natsu is Laxus tier, but somehow we have an agenda? How is it an agenda if the Author agrees?? Sounds like we picked up exactly what he was putting down my dude.
That's not what was said though. We are told what happened with her sparring with Kirin and no mention is made of Suzaku impressing her in any way. An we have Misaki specificaly talking about strength 2-3 times already? She never mentions him, everything you just said is in fact, headcannon.
You guys keep arguing this, she didn't say two of the strongest. She called each a contender for the strongest. Who else did she mention? An by virtue of us being told their equals, they scale to all those feats. It's interesting that the people with the biggest issue with this, are the ones who are crying about scaling.
Yo, Godslayer, dope name. Welcome to the owning circle. What other contender other than Laxus and KIrin did she mention. You are now the 3rd volunteer, lets see if we can get an answer to that finally. Whom else did Selene state was a contender. I have waited for weeks, but i'm willing to wait a bit more. Oh, and what was your counter to MIsaki's statment? You seem to have forgotten it in your response. The assessment of a Dragon God, specifically the DG that all of Suzaku's impressive feats are against would seem to hold plenty of weight. In fact, could you explain to me why it doesn't for you?
Kirin saying he didn't really lose, because he couldn't cut loose in that enviroment is your counter argument? So are we debating every gag statment made or joke shown? Cause Gag Gajeel one-shot haku, and gag Laxus keeps one shotting Natsu and Gajeel soooooo. Lemme know if that's the genuine route you wanna go.
Sooooo, how are you getting around the multiple statements about the BDSK being equals. Did you bring a supporting argument? Madmole saying perhaps would carry more weight if he was the team leader introducing the idea of BDSK, but we learned about it from Skullion, who was actually in the know. An Madmole is shown as just reacting to the news. So everything after that point is conjecture on your part. Can you provide Suzaku stating he's stronger, or that they aren't his equals? We got opinions on the heirarchy from Misaki and Kirin, did either of them think Suzaku is above them or worth mentioning in the conversation. Cuase from what I see, your argument is you don't like scaling. Which is less an argument and more of a personal issue. Cause his fellows scale to those feats, by virtue of being his equals, and a counter argument of "well their just his euqal in status" would be a good argument if this wasn't FT and we didn't know the ranks in the guilds are based on abilitiy and power. Thats how it works. Though if you have any of those, feel free to provide them.
God Serena being stronger than the GIldarts he saw in Alvarez isn't a stretch. In fact, since Gildarts revealed he's always wanted the chance to see who's stronger. Why wouldn't God Seren be knowledgable of Gildarts of the West and why would he think he is weaker than him. His making that statement flows with his character perfectly. Now if you have some reason for us to believe he's interacted with Gildarts since joining Gold Owl then we can really dive into and debate his throw away opinion. Did you have something to make it like, an actual argument.
So far biggest win of this post was convincing @Garmadooon it was safe to poke his head back out.
Selene don't need to name any contender because we all know them and because she never talked about contenders, she just said that both Laxus and Kirin were among the strongest of their guilds
But even regarding contender as the official translation (which isn't) let's see what cambridge dictionary says about what is a contender: Someone who compete with other people to try to win something. Not even in fan translations Selene had the guts to say Kirin is indeed the strongest, she put him as MERE contender who could be even weaker than Haku. Any of the BDSK could be a contender, official translations also just put him as one of the strongest. About Misaki statement what you wanna me to say? That she fought and equally matched Kirin? How this put her or Kirin above Suzaku, she said the only one who she fought at full power was Kirin, fine, Suzaku shouldn't have fought her then. If she have said ''Me and Kirin are the strongest BDSK'' you would have a point, but her actual statement don't prove anything.
Kirin was one shotted, how the heck the enviroment would save him from loosing? Besides both literally have the same kind of magic and Misaki admitted defeat even when he was also making excuses for her. Gag? Kirin didn't seemed to be joking while making excuses for his loss, he just seemed to be a cocky character like many before him. Kirin didn't even used a gag face, besides there is a gag moment which signario fans overreact and i can still debunk it.
Multiple? I only saw the Madmole's perharps and Misaki saying she can match Kirin, and i don't know how a word that is literally used to show that you are not certain about something carries any weight. But Suzaku don't need to say anything neither need that someone hypes him, his feats are already superior to any BDSK or Gildarts, lack of statements don't proof anything, just means that he don't need to leech feats. If statements don't go against feat scaling so no reason to deny feat scaling. The proof of Suzaku being stronger lies on his feats, Misaki damaged Erza with hours of pain and still lost while Suzaku one shotted her. Bro look at what i'm saying about scaling, if you wanna do statement scaling you must use official translations and have a direct and reliable statement, just that, nothing about personal preferences, i'm just pointing that the statements used don't lead anywhere.
At least it seems you don't have double standards with God Serena statement, a lot of people have. About Serena being stronger than Gildarts at any moment i don't have any single proof, only about laxus, i'm just taking the majority consensus this time, 99% of the people you ask will say that God Serena just made a boastful claim because he is arrogant.
Selene don't need to name any contender because we all know them and because she never talked about contenders, she just said that both Laxus and Kirin were among the strongest of their guilds
But even regarding contender as the official translation (which isn't) let's see what cambridge dictionary says about what is a contender: Someone who compete with other people to try to win something. Not even in fan translations Selene had the guts to say Kirin is indeed the strongest, she put him as MERE contender who could be even weaker than Haku. Any of the BDSK could be a contender, official translations also just put him as one of the strongest. About Misaki statement what you wanna me to say? That she fought and equally matched Kirin? How this put her or Kirin above Suzaku, she said the only one who she fought at full power was Kirin, fine, Suzaku shouldn't have fought her then. If she have said ''Me and Kirin are the strongest BDSK'' you would have a point, but her actual statement don't prove anything.
Kirin was one shotted, how the heck the enviroment would save him from loosing? Besides both literally have the same kind of magic and Misaki admitted defeat even when he was also making excuses for her. Gag? Kirin didn't seemed to be joking while making excuses for his loss, he just seemed to be a cocky character like many before him. Kirin didn't even used a gag face, besides there is a gag moment which signario fans overreact and i can still debunk it.
Multiple? I only saw the Madmole's perharps and Misaki saying she can match Kirin, and i don't know how a word that is literally used to show that you are not certain about something carries any weight. But Suzaku don't need to say anything neither need that someone hypes him, his feats are already superior to any BDSK or Gildarts, lack of statements don't proof anything, just means that he don't need to leech feats. If statements don't go against feat scaling so no reason to deny feat scaling. The proof of Suzaku being stronger lies on his feats, Misaki damaged Erza with hours of pain and still lost while Suzaku one shotted her. Bro look at what i'm saying about scaling, if you wanna do statement scaling you must use official translations and have a direct and reliable statement, just that, nothing about personal preferences, i'm just pointing that the statements used don't lead anywhere.
At least it seems you don't have double standards with God Serena statement, a lot of people have. About Serena being stronger than Gildarts at any moment i don't have any single proof, only about laxus, i'm just taking the majority consensus this time, 99% of the people you ask will say that God Serena just made a boastful claim because he is arrogant.
Who is the other contender. Who is the other candidate. Who else is mentioned, cause if you say cotenders and only mention two people. TheiThey are the contenders.
So do so. Cause right now, you're counter argument is the guy saying he would have won if he had more space to go all out, and that makes him unreliable to you lol. MIsaki admitted defeat, but did she mention Suzaku as being above her? Cuase that was the focus, her brag about Kirin, not anything about her conversation at the dinner table. Is that the entirety of your argument? Cause before Laxus absorbed ELexion he was getting pummelled when Kirin created those openings.
Go back to the orignal mention of the DDSK. As previously mentioned you haven't undone that. I mean you give me a pragraph about lack of proof, but your counter argument is "ignore the statments". You want me to ignore Madmole because they added Perhaps, but last i checked that word doesn't do anything to counter the statement being made in that sentence. We also have Misaki who as you mentioned is a very honest witness, and did she mention anything about Suzaku? Cause Era is taking over her dimension and pushing her to the brink, and if as you insisted this is something Suzaku has done before why was no mention made of him? We're directly told that Kirin pushed her to her limits. Kirin directly states he's the strongest. Selene names him as candidate. An you have yet to provide an instance of a second contender from Diablos despite all your hair splitting. Is it that there isn't one? Cause what feat contradicts Kirin being stronger exactly??
What double standards? You mean me pointing out statements and standing on that? We are told that God Serena is boastful, that's not something people are just deciding. You on the other hand are insisting that Kirin is unreliable because he thinks he can take Laxus. I guess since we never see Suzaku claim he's stronger than his peers, and his peers don't seem too nonplussed or impressed there isn't another option i guess.
Who is the other contender. Who is the other candidate. Who else is mentioned, cause if you say cotenders and only mention two people. TheiThey are the contenders.
So do so. Cause right now, you're counter argument is the guy saying he would have won if he had more space to go all out, and that makes him unreliable to you lol. MIsaki admitted defeat, but did she mention Suzaku as being above her? Cuase that was the focus, her brag about Kirin, not anything about her conversation at the dinner table. Is that the entirety of your argument? Cause before Laxus absorbed ELexion he was getting pummelled when Kirin created those openings.
Go back to the orignal mention of the DDSK. As previously mentioned you haven't undone that. I mean you give me a pragraph about lack of proof, but your counter argument is "ignore the statments". You want me to ignore Madmole because they added Perhaps, but last i checked that word doesn't do anything to counter the statement being made in that sentence. We also have Misaki who as you mentioned is a very honest witness, and did she mention anything about Suzaku? Cause Era is taking over her dimension and pushing her to the brink, and if as you insisted this is something Suzaku has done before why was no mention made of him? We're directly told that Kirin pushed her to her limits. Kirin directly states he's the strongest. Selene names him as candidate. An you have yet to provide an instance of a second contender from Diablos despite all your hair splitting. Is it that there isn't one? Cause what feat contradicts Kirin being stronger exactly??
What double standards? You mean me pointing out statements and standing on that? We are told that God Serena is boastful, that's not something people are just deciding. You on the other hand are insisting that Kirin is unreliable because he thinks he can take Laxus. I guess since we never see Suzaku claim he's stronger than his peers, and his peers don't seem too nonplussed or impressed there isn't another option i guess.
I already explained the concept of contender, there is no need to explictly say who is aso a contender, by statements alone there is no way to define who is the strongest that's why i use feats, without feats i couldn't say nothing about Suzaku.
It's impossible to say that Suzaku is inferior through feats so you are overrelying on statements even when they don't help you. You wanna a direct statement about Misaki inferiority to Suzaku, but if i ask if there is any DIRECT statement about Suzaku inferiority to her you will provide any? Misaki fighting Kirin is a thing, Suzaku has nothing to do with that, there is no direct comparison. The only one Suzaku explicitly admitted inferiority is Georg if you wanna know, one direct admission of inferiority, there is any of him about Kirin and Misaki? And yes Kirin is bad loser which turns him an unreliable source
You didn't understood my counter argument then. Fairy Tail is a series where i found a lot of very fraudulent statements, after last i chapter i could even went full Joker and say ignore statements, but the fact is i don't even need to do this.I say the opposite, read the entire statement. We are making statement scaling so every single word is a object of scrutiny, so the moment Madmole said PEHARPS he opened margin to say Suzaku is still much stronger than rest of the BDSK. Since is just ''perharps'' this take could have been entirely wrong if feats PROVED that they were all equals, but for some reason(Laxus agenda) we aren't debating feats, we are just debating statements. By statements alone there is nothing definitive, this is what i'm trying to highlight. There is no comparison to Suzaku with Misaki fighting Kirin, a candidate to be the strongest is not the same of being strongest, simple like that. The only direct statement was made by Kirin himself who proved to be a bad loser and a cocky guy, you can revisit the entire series again and you see that every cocky statement was wrong.
I was talking about people who disregards God Serena statement about him being stronger than Gildarts while overreacting Kirin statement, then i was admitting that at least you were more fair than them. And it's not just me, even the majority who defends Kirin can't deny that he is cocky.
Other thing ''The overall message of that statement is still Ishgar is weak compared to others, and he literally uses himself the Guild Master, and the aces. What makes it not a statement on their rankings? '' It's a statement about Ishgar ranking not Gold Owl ranking, he just praised the Gold Owl elite and downplayed Ishgar because of them as he still thinks that the GoI are the top dogs. In this case i use the literality to say signarios and Duke are just more frightening than God Serena but weaker than him as they don't have feats to back up being stronger and the statement didn't even help much as i could just use its literality.
WELCOME BACK!!!! Erza looked weaker than Laxus and she looked weaker than Mystogan, and Jellal literally bodied her. Whats up with the question? Mystogan and Laxus had a slightly equal exchange, if you ingore Laxus absolutely tanking all his big spells. An since we haven't had a ton of "amazing" mystogan spells revealed later, and Laxus had an entire arsenal of spells he wasn't using. Yeah. Erza countered one base lightning bolt but needed her lightning armor. That isn't enought to claim looking equal. Especially when he turns aroung and 2v1s Natsu and Gajeel right after.
thanks
when did she look weaker than laxus? when did jellal bodied her? all i remember that when jellal was using thought projection, he got low diffed by erza. than he tricked her into letting her guards down and that is when he put bind snake on her. so when did jellal bodied erza?
you are correct. laxus looks stronger, and one can say reasonably stronger than mystogan.
and yes, Yeah. Erza countered one base lightning bolt but needed her lightning armor (a low level armor). laxus countered erza kick, she countered his attack at point blank. seems pretty equal at this point.
and do you know erza couldnt have 2v1s Natsu and Gajeel. in previous arcs Erza one shotted unsealed Aria. in the next arc it took Cobra, Racer and Hoteye in a sneak attack to take her out, while Natsu and Grey were taken out by Racer alone.
Both Natsu and Erza always jobs at arc beginning, i only rank their feats when they are serious, just like serious Erza curbstomped Luso while at the start of the arc she jobbed to her.
Now about Battle of Fairy Tail, Mystogan said Gildarts was the strongest mage and Laxus only replied that Gildarts was never there so him and Mystogan were the two strongest mages. Mystogan didn't even defended Erza as much as he does in the anime, he just says she isn't weak as Laxus suggested, besides Tenrou also made it clear that Laxus was solidly above Erza. Erza only reached Laxus level in Aldoron arc
Erza/Laxus stans: Suzaku is not the strongest BDSK ! They were stated as equal !
Also Laxus stans: Kirin is the strongest BDSK because Selene said so !
Also also Erza stans: Misaki is much stronger than Suzaku and Haku because she faced Kirin ! And she has Gildarts level magic power while Suzaku doesn't so she would one shot him with the blue dimension !
How can you contradict yourself twice in the same sentence bro It's okay to disagree but damn I can't stand hypocrisy. I’m criticized for claiming Suzaku as the strongest BDSK but then these same people will put Kirin well above the other BDSKs.
thanks
when did she look weaker than laxus? when did jellal bodied her? all i remember that when jellal was using thought projection, he got low diffed by erza. than he tricked her into letting her guards down and that is when he put bind snake on her. so when did jellal bodied erza?
you are correct. laxus looks stronger, and one can say reasonably stronger than mystogan.
and yes, Yeah. Erza countered one base lightning bolt but needed her lightning armor (a low level armor). laxus countered erza kick, she countered his attack at point blank. seems pretty equal at this point.
and do you know erza couldnt have 2v1s Natsu and Gajeel. in previous arcs Erza one shotted unsealed Aria. in the next arc it took Cobra, Racer and Hoteye in a sneak attack to take her out, while Natsu and Grey were taken out by Racer alone.
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you just negated Suzaku best feat. he defeated Natsu and Erza when they were jobbing.
do you think if Gildarts also joined Natsu team vs Hades after bluenote, there would be some difference?
In Aldron arc only Laxus increased power was mentioned in the manga. the statements seems to imply that laxus caught up with erza in Aldron arc.
Hades made short work of Erza in chapter 244 while Laxus was getting the upper hand for most part of their fight in chapter 245, it was pretty clear he was above Erza confirming what he thought in Battle of Fairy Tail. Even in GMG Jura was stated to be stronger than Erza and Mira together but Laxus soloed him.
Suzaku feat was not at beginning of the arc, Erza already jobbed to Youko and Natsu already jobbed to Hakune, when Suzaku one shotted Erza Gray confirmed that he was at a DIFFERENT LEVEL, so Gray quote reinforce his feat and even roasts statement scalers here, Gray says the guy is a level above people there, how this don't apply to Erza who was just one shotted? This same Erza hold her own against Misaki, you know, Erza before Heavenly Body enchantment still fought Misaki while Suzaku simply one shotted her. Suzaku>>>Misaki by statement scaling, i forgot to make this reasoning yesterday https://cdn.readfairytail.com/file/mangap/1175/10080000/16.jpeg Then Natsu got SERIOUS by that and was one shotted the same way. In Aldoron arc Suzaku tries to one shot again, but BECAUSE of the FDKM scales he couldn't, Natsu had to adapt to Suzaku otherwise the result would be the same, this was even pointed in the chapter.
Gildarts would likely force Hades to use his Devil Heart earlier which would have ended ugly for Fairy Tail team, so maybe it was better he wasn't there
Laxus statement was to say that he mastered his red lightning, yes it was a power increase, but not very power increase needs a statement. It is crystal clear that in Alvarez Erza did not have enchantments without Wendy help right? So she using enchantments like Belserion Sword in Mercphobia arc is enough to say that she had a power increase. In Aldoron arc she used Belserion Sword again and showed a new enchantment that uses both Gray and Natsu magics. Still Mercphobia arc she didn't fodderized Kyria like Laxus did, so even if she was holding back against Kyria the impression is that she had a huge power progression from an arc to the other, then we have the additional enchantment with Natsu and Gray magic. And if you read the fight again you will notice that Erza was portrayed as the underdog of the fight who like Rocky Balboa manged somewhat a stalemate, just look at how Laxus trahsed Erza lightning armor at the start. Besides there is a difference between assuming that Erza or any charcter growed through a new gimmick than assuming that Erza growed doing dogshit, seriously some Signario defenders basically claim that she had a Zenkai boost against the Signarios when she just had lesser difficulty against them than against Misaki, Signarios are simply weaker than Misaki and WEAKER THAN GOD SERENA, they are just more frightening than him end of the case.
Hades made short work of Erza in chapter 244 while Laxus was getting the upper hand for most part of their fight in chapter 245, it was pretty clear he was above Erza confirming what he thought in Battle of Fairy Tail. Even in GMG Jura was stated to be stronger than Erza and Mira together but Laxus soloed him.
Suzaku feat was not at beginning of the arc, Erza already jobbed to Youko and Natsu already jobbed to Hakune, when Suzaku one shotted Erza Gray confirmed that he was at a DIFFERENT LEVEL, so Gray quote reinforce his feat and even roasts statement scalers here, Gray says the guy is a level above people there, how this don't apply to Erza who was just one shotted? This same Erza hold her own against Misaki, you know, Erza before Heavenly Body enchantment still fought Misaki while Suzaku simply one shotted her. Suzaku>>>Misaki by statement scaling, i forgot to make this reasoning yesterday https://cdn.readfairytail.com/file/mangap/1175/10080000/16.jpeg Then Natsu got SERIOUS by that and was one shotted the same way. In Aldoron arc Suzaku tries to one shot again, but BECAUSE of the FDKM scales he couldn't, Natsu had to adapt to Suzaku otherwise the result would be the same, this was even pointed in the chapter.
Gildarts would likely force Hades to use his Devil Heart earlier which would have ended ugly for Fairy Tail team, so maybe it was better he wasn't there
Laxus statement was to say that he mastered his red lightning, yes it was a power increase, but not very power increase needs a statement. It is crystal clear that in Alvarez Erza did not have enchantments without Wendy help right? So she using enchantments like Belserion Sword in Mercphobia arc is enough to say that she had a power increase. In Aldoron arc she used Belserion Sword again and showed a new enchantment that uses both Gray and Natsu magics. Still Mercphobia arc she didn't fodderized Kyria like Laxus did, so even if she was holding back against Kyria the impression is that she had a huge power progression from an arc to the other, then we have the additional enchantment with Natsu and Gray magic. And if you read the fight again you will notice that Erza was portrayed as the underdog of the fight who like Rocky Balboa manged somewhat a stalemate, just look at how Laxus trahsed Erza lightning armor at the start. Besides there is a difference between assuming that Erza or any charcter growed through a new gimmick than assuming that Erza growed doing dogshit, seriously some Signario defenders basically claim that she had a Zenkai boost against the Signarios when she just had lesser difficulty against them than against Misaki, Signarios are simply weaker than Misaki and WEAKER THAN GOD SERENA, they are just more frightening than him end of the case.
Yea I mean it's not like Erza and the rest of team Natsu had literally just gone through tough battles and been fighting the entire arc while Laxus was fresh off his feat. (Tho Laxus was definitely stronger than Erza at that point since he claimed he was close to Gildarts level.)
Didn't Laxus believe Evergreen could beat Erza in the battle of fairy tail?
When Mirajane made that statement she didn't even know about Erza second origin ( no one did).
Like you said Erza and Natsu jobbs at the beginning of the Arcs. Against Suzaku, he caught her off guard and she was exhausted of her fight against Youko. We saw how a SERIOUS Erza does against one of his peers.
The fight was pretty much even after Erza stopped holding back in chapter 45.
Didn't Ennie mention she can kill God Serena?
And him being frightened like she could do it says a lot.
Yea I mean it's not like Erza and the rest of team Natsu had literally just gone through tough battles and been fighting the entire arc while Laxus was fresh off his feat. (Tho Laxus was definitely stronger than Erza at that point since he claimed he was close to Gildarts level.)
Didn't Laxus believe Evergreen could beat Erza in the battle of fairy tail?
When Mirajane made that statement she didn't even know about Erza second origin ( no one did).
Like you said Erza and Natsu jobbs at the beginning of the Arcs. Against Suzaku, he caught her off guard and she was exhausted of her fight against Youko. We saw how a SERIOUS Erza does against one of his peers.
The fight was pretty much even after Erza stopped holding back in chapter 45.
Didn't Ennie mention she can kill God Serena?
And him being frightened like she could do it says a lot.
I know hey were already tired but rest of the team joined together against Hades, the difference in portrayal was pretty clear. It was Hades claim, but i would say he was inaccurate, pre-timeskip Gildarts was post-timeskip Jura level, he probably just found them similar from what he knew.
Ok Laxus seriously downplayed Fairy Tail and wanked Evergreen, but i'm taking manga Mystogan personal scaling as a better source, he stated that Gildarts was the strongest and denied that Erza was weak, but didn't put her at the same level of him and Laxus as he did in the anime. https://cdn.readfairytail.com/file/mangap/1166/10119000/19.jpg
Seems fair, but Mira fans will cry with this
Offguard? She reacted to the attack, here it's clear that she realized that the attack was coming https://cdn.readfairytail.com/file/mangap/1175/10080000/13.jpeg And like i said they already jobbed before this, Gray confirmed that Suzaku was a level above Erza, and Natsu should even had a rage boost. Erza best feat in Alvarez was when she had BROKEN BONES, being tired from fighting Youko is not a excuse after this, even because against Misaki she took hours of pain and still defeated her. By Gray statement Suzaku is above the same Erza who hold her own against Misaki, Heavenly Body enchantment is a power up, but she still fought Misaki before this power up, and the same Gray compared Erza and Misaki to Gildarts and Laxus to say that they were close, or at least not one shot material for the other, so even by statements Suzaku>>>Misaki=Kirin
I knew someone here would overreact this gag moment, seriously God Serena was making a gag face, but even taking this gag moment seriously all i can see is a Alchemy Doll worried about being discarded after failling his mission. Enny asked Duke, the one who revived him, if Duke said yes Serena would be doomed even if he defeated Enny, but can he even go against Duke's will as an Alchemy Doll? Besides Enny can think what she wants, but this don't prove anything, everyone here can see that her performance was bad and not enough to compete with Serena. All what signarios have is more frightening quote and their opinion downplaying Serena, but you know who also downplayed him? Ajeel, then Hiro confirmed that God Serena was stronger (ranked him above Laxus who is obviously above Ajeel)
I knew someone here would overreact this gag moment, seriously God Serena was making a gag face, but even taking this gag moment seriously all i can see is a Alchemy Doll worried about being discarded after failling his mission. Enny asked Duke, the one who revived him, if Duke said yes Serena would be doomed even if he defeated Enny, but can he even go against Duke's will as an Alchemy Doll? Besides Enny can think what she wants, but this don't prove anything, everyone here can see that her performance was bad and not enough to compete with Serena. All what signarios have is more frightening quote and their opinion downplaying Serena, but you know who also downplayed him? Ajeel, then Hiro confirmed that God Serena was stronger (ranked him above Laxus who is obviously above Ajeel)
I already explained the concept of contender, there is no need to explictly say who is aso a contender, by statements alone there is no way to define who is the strongest that's why i use feats, without feats i couldn't say nothing about Suzaku.
It's impossible to say that Suzaku is inferior through feats so you are overrelying on statements even when they don't help you. You wanna a direct statement about Misaki inferiority to Suzaku, but if i ask if there is any DIRECT statement about Suzaku inferiority to her you will provide any? Misaki fighting Kirin is a thing, Suzaku has nothing to do with that, there is no direct comparison. The only one Suzaku explicitly admitted inferiority is Georg if you wanna know, one direct admission of inferiority, there is any of him about Kirin and Misaki? And yes Kirin is bad loser which turns him an unreliable source
You didn't understood my counter argument then. Fairy Tail is a series where i found a lot of very fraudulent statements, after last i chapter i could even went full Joker and say ignore statements, but the fact is i don't even need to do this.I say the opposite, read the entire statement. We are making statement scaling so every single word is a object of scrutiny, so the moment Madmole said PEHARPS he opened margin to say Suzaku is still much stronger than rest of the BDSK. Since is just ''perharps'' this take could have been entirely wrong if feats PROVED that they were all equals, but for some reason(Laxus agenda) we aren't debating feats, we are just debating statements. By statements alone there is nothing definitive, this is what i'm trying to highlight. There is no comparison to Suzaku with Misaki fighting Kirin, a candidate to be the strongest is not the same of being strongest, simple like that. The only direct statement was made by Kirin himself who proved to be a bad loser and a cocky guy, you can revisit the entire series again and you see that every cocky statement was wrong.
I was talking about people who disregards God Serena statement about him being stronger than Gildarts while overreacting Kirin statement, then i was admitting that at least you were more fair than them. And it's not just me, even the majority who defends Kirin can't deny that he is cocky.
Other thing ''The overall message of that statement is still Ishgar is weak compared to others, and he literally uses himself the Guild Master, and the aces. What makes it not a statement on their rankings? '' It's a statement about Ishgar ranking not Gold Owl ranking, he just praised the Gold Owl elite and downplayed Ishgar because of them as he still thinks that the GoI are the top dogs. In this case i use the literality to say signarios and Duke are just more frightening than God Serena but weaker than him as they don't have feats to back up being stronger and the statement didn't even help much as i could just use its literality.
I didn't ask you to explain the concept on Contender. I asked who else was mentioned as a contender. You wrote me several paragraphs about the importance of the word Perhaps and how it affected your opinion of the statement, why is this so difficult for you? You insist he was just one of the candidates Selene met, please provide the other candidates she stated or bow out on this point my guy. You aren't important enough to decide statements don't matter, so it's up to you to counter them. Please do so.
You're a bad loser, you insist that statements don't matter because you lack a counter to them. That makes you an unreliable debater. See how ridiculous that sounds as an argument. Provide a statement of Suzaku being superior to the other BDSK. You insist this is a thing, so please provide supporting evidence. See, her mentioning her performance against Kirin as a stand alone statement isn't very powerful if it was in the manga all alone. When we add Selene's comment about the fact he's the other contender for the strongest. Then we add his blatant statement he is the strongest in the Guild, Sensei paints a picture. You've yet to really offer a counter to this other than, @GodSlayer666 doesn't think statements should be used to make an argument. Problem is that holds about as much weight in the grand scheme of things as @Garmadooon not liking scaling arguments, jack and shit.
Perhaps isn't a strong enough word to make that statement work for you. It just shows that Madmole is unsure about how it breaks out. Skullion wasn't, and Selene hasn't been presented to be either. We can totally discuss feats, you got upset because i insisted that they bolster the entire group. An they do. Suzaku is able to speed blitz Erza, so was Laxus, who was in turn blitzed by Kirin. Misaki also blitzed Erza. Suzaku was unable to best Natsu, and this is without DF or a massive MC boost, so this is a Natsu who is below Laxus. Kirin was partnered with Laxus and Laxus only gained the power advantage after eating a dragon soul. So we can extrapolate pretty well, what did you wanna use?
I didn't say he wasn't cocky, i mean he was made as an anti Laxus.
So you are assuming and infering that he does not mean they are stronger than him. why?
Dude by statements Kirin is outright the strongest BDSK. While Misaki is treated as the second. Misaki another BDSK hyped up Kirin. Suzaku was in no way was hyped up to be the strongest. Suzaku attacked her without warning she only blocked it because she fast enough. The good guys always lose the first round and then win the second. Thats been happening since the beginning of OG fairy tail. Even now I'm pretty sure Erza, Laxus, Natsu are stronger than the BDSK.
I'm giving it the benefit of a doubt DESPITE their awful performance against Erza the sisters are undoubtedly stronger than God Serena. Especially with their hax.
thanks
when did she look weaker than laxus? when did jellal bodied her? all i remember that when jellal was using thought projection, he got low diffed by erza. than he tricked her into letting her guards down and that is when he put bind snake on her. so when did jellal bodied erza?
you are correct. laxus looks stronger, and one can say reasonably stronger than mystogan.
and yes, Yeah. Erza countered one base lightning bolt but needed her lightning armor (a low level armor). laxus countered erza kick, she countered his attack at point blank. seems pretty equal at this point.
and do you know erza couldnt have 2v1s Natsu and Gajeel. in previous arcs Erza one shotted unsealed Aria. in the next arc it took Cobra, Racer and Hoteye in a sneak attack to take her out, while Natsu and Grey were taken out by Racer alone.
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you just negated Suzaku best feat. he defeated Natsu and Erza when they were jobbing.
do you think if Gildarts also joined Natsu team vs Hades after bluenote, there would be some difference?
In Aldron arc only Laxus increased power was mentioned in the manga. the statements seems to imply that laxus caught up with erza in Aldron arc.
I suggest going back and watching those fights. Erza and Jellal were pretty close until he absorbed his projection and then the fight was all him. Erza's kick is only equal to lowlevel lightning bolt to you my guy. She kicked him, which had no effect, she then equipped a specialized armor for a passive bolt. An yeah, we see Erza duel Natsu and shes taking it seriously. She didn't put him down effortlessly. An to date she has no comparable feat.
Suzaku has better feats than Gildarts, stop insisting in downgrading him with just an PEHARPS and a self boast
It's okay to disagree but damn I can't stand hypocrisy. I’m criticized for claiming Suzaku as the strongest BDSK but then these same people will put Kirin well above the other BDSKs.
