Game Fan League

[Fayte]

"Zaizen copies Jiro's Volley master! So they go to 50, and Jiro+Gin stay at 46.5...But then, Final Hadokyuu activates. Since it can't be "added" to Zaizen, it can't be stolen/stopped."

-Final Hadoukyuu[Effect]: If the opponent is within 5 levels, Gin's team wins. (doubles only)
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead

Yes it can. I actually won that match.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

"Zaizen copies Jiro's Volley master! So they go to 50, and Jiro+Gin stay at 46.5...But then, Final Hadokyuu activates. Since it can't be "added" to Zaizen, it can't be stolen/stopped."

-Final Hadoukyuu[Effect]: If the opponent is within 5 levels, Gin's team wins. (doubles only)
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead

Yes it can. I actually won that match.

So, Zaizen both stops AND copies the effects from ALL his opponents?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

"Zaizen copies Jiro's Volley master! So they go to 50, and Jiro+Gin stay at 46.5...But then, Final Hadokyuu activates. Since it can't be "added" to Zaizen, it can't be stolen/stopped."

-Final Hadoukyuu[Effect]: If the opponent is within 5 levels, Gin's team wins. (doubles only)
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead

Yes it can. I actually won that match.

No, because it says 'added'. Final Hadokyuu doesn't 'add' anything, it's an auto win. The way both effects are written, I won the match.

 

[Fayte]

I don't see any mistake in the way I worded it. If the opponent has an effect, it is added to Zaizen INSTEAD of the person. He is a leech. I mean that's how it has been for every match prior to this one lol

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Well, up until now the effect has only been treated as working if it adds points, not for any effect. I think Sherlock even said that was how it worked a few pages back.

And if it can copy any effect, then that just makes it way too broken.

 

[Fayte]

Well, up until now the effect has only been treated as working if it adds points, not for any effect. I think Sherlock even said that was how it worked a few pages back.

And if it can copy any effect, then that just makes it way too broken.

Don't say something is broken just because you lost to it. It isn't broken. If the effect of the opponent has nothing to do with stat increases, and the opponents base stats are above Zaizen's, he already lost. Plus, that is his ONLY effect. Note: EFFECT, not Feat.

 

[Atobe the king]

Hmmm...

This probably wont end well lol...keep the inevitable discussion civil please ^_^

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Don't say something is broken just because you lost to it. It isn't broken. If the effect of the opponent has nothing to do with stat increases, and the opponents base stats are above Zaizen's, he already lost. Plus, that is his ONLY effect. Note: EFFECT, not Feat.

I didn't lose to it. I won the match.

I'm not saying it's broken because canceling and copying all effects is a ridiculous and broken effect. There's no reason one character should be that strong.

 

[Fayte]

I didn't lose to it. I won the match.

I'm not saying it's broken because canceling and copying all effects is a ridiculous and broken effect. There's no reason one character should be that strong.

You didn't win the match lol

And like I said, it is not broken nor is he "that" strong. There are so many ways around it. He can't take Aura's or Feats and he is only base level 20. What is the problem?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

In my opinion, it is poorly worded, and broken. Perhaps it would be okay in singles, but in both singles AND doubles...Eh.

We can't really argue one way or the other, so I think we might have to do a rematch.

So, let me attempt to make this effect clearer:

Zaizen(20)
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent gets boosted points by an aura, an effect, or a feat, that bonus is added to Zaizen instead.

The weak point here is, he can't negate/copy effects that aren't specifically made of +

or

-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead.(Singles only)

Fayte, you can change it to either of those two variants. That way Zaizen can keep up with characters normally without being too broken.

Choose any of those two, and edit the list with it.

Then, you two send me your lineups again, let's redo this.

...I personally still think that "add" would imply that it only counts for status effects, and Zaizen couldn't have copied the FH.

But I think fighting will get us nowhere, and no one is going to just give up their win. So let's redo this round shall we? Fayte, choose an effect, edit the list, post here telling us when you are done, and then both of you will send me your lineups again.

Is that okay with both of you?

---

You didn't win the match lol

And like I said, it is not broken nor is he "that" strong. There are so many ways around it. He can't take Aura's or Feats and he is only base level 20. What is the problem?

The problem Fayte, is that Feats aren't usually that strong, and that just about 7 characters in the league have auras. That's why he is broken, ESPECIALLY in doubles.

His effect simply destroys any kind of doubles pair(save for the golden) and really, throwing him in almost any doubles match is a guaranteed win.

It wouldn't be too bad if he could only use it in singles, but when he can both negate and copy someone's effect, he essentially becomes Shiraishi on steroids.

EDIT: 6 characters in the league have auras, plus the golden pair. Damn, my guess was sooo close. Hardly a workaround, especially in doubles. In singles, that's different. You have many workarounds there. But in doubles...Only 6 characters can actually avoid being copied.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Either of those proposed variants wouldn't actually change the result of the previous match, though, since neither of them let Zaizen copy Final Hadokyuu.

 

[Atobe the king]

I think that's an okay way to go about it...because as you said..who wants to give up the win.

As Hinata fan says..it's a bit unfair..but as Fayte says Zaizen's only a 20...a good amount of my players and other could crush him regardless of that effect so it isn't really broken.

But i guess the issue here is that gin had a broken effect which Zaizen copied lmao.

If both agree to this method then yay for me and thanks guys for making my job as mod oh so easy.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Either of those proposed variants wouldn't actually change the result of the previous match, though, since neither of them let Zaizen copy Final Hadokyuu.

Yes, but it could be argued that then Fayte's strategy might have been different had he known the effect beforehand.

Believe me, I really want your victory to stick. If Fayte wins, I'll lose my chance at being N1.

But I have to impartial here.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Yes, but it could be argued that then Fayte's strategy might have been different had he known the effect beforehand.

Believe me, I really want your victory to stick. If Fayte wins, I'll lose my chance at being N1.

But I have to impartial here.

I understand your point, but if I can make a brief argument in my favor here by bringing up precedence.

Way back at the start of Season 1, Ravsieg and I played and inadvertently discovered that we both had Amane on our team. When I made my replacement pick, you simply plugged that in to the previous match rather than having a rematch. My strategy with my team certainly would have been different in that case, too.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that there was a precedence established back in Season 1 for not doing a rematch.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

S3) Oni(50) vs Kamio(15.5)= Oni. Winner: Hinata Fan
D2) Gin+Kaidoh(20.5+16.5) vs Kirihara+Oshitari(23+18.5)=KiOs. Winner: Ravsieg
S2) Chinen(10.5) vs Fuji(25)=Fuji. Winner: Ravsieg
D1)Jackal(10)+Shishido(7.5) vs Kintaro(23)+Kite(21.5)=KiKi.Winner: Ravsieg.
S1)Amane(10) vs...Amane? What? Both have Amane? GLITCH.
Uh we'll have to fix this until next round. Winner: Tie due to glitch.

That was the original VS Ravsieg match. The reason there was no relining up was that simply, was that if you had Kurobane from the beginning your strategy really wouldn't have changed. You got Kurobane as a substitute. He wasn't stronger than Amane, he was weaker. There would be no point in hiding him in doubles. You would have used the exact same strategy.

More importantly, that was because Ravsieg had won that match 3-1 already, and that only decided whether it would make it 3-2 or 4-1.

Had the match been tied at 2-2, I would have demanded a rematch.

I understand your precedent, but they are completely different scenarios. Rav vs you had its result settled. Fayte vs You can be decided based on a ruling.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Fair enough. If that's your decision, then I'll have to abide by it.

Once the decision is made I'll go along with the rematch.

 

[Fayte]

but as Fayte says Zaizen's only a 20...a good amount of my players and other could crush him regardless of that effect so it isn't really broken.

But i guess the issue here is that gin had a broken effect which Zaizen copied lmao.

That is exactly it lol

Okay how about this (I'm noticing people are only complaining about my team)

Zaizen, the only character with 1 ANYTHING (feat, effect, aura) In the entire league, I will nerf. Just so everyone stops CRYING over something to do with my team,

-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead of the person. If playing doubles, Zaizen only takes the effect of the higher opponent when a giant space ape is doing a handstand at the exact moment of a solar eclipse on a Sunday before church during the year of the dragon.

How is that? Are the requirements enough for my level 20 character to not be broken?

Or would you rather me take Sherlock's suggestion and argue that both of your doubles characters were "arrogant" thus making Zaizen stronger and winning anyway?

 

[Atobe the king]

Oh come now Fayte...no need to be so antagonistic..it won't fix this situation..only prolong it and make it worse...

I say simply make it a singles only effect and come up with another feat or something.

 

[Fayte]

Oh come now Fayte...no need to be so antagonistic..it won't fix this situation..only prolong it and make it worse...

I say simply make it a singles only effect and come up with another feat or something.

It is stupid that I have to change anything. He is fine the way he is. Changing him in the way you are suggesting is like saying,

"Dude don't increase Zaizen 3 points! are you insane? that is broken! You need to decrease the opponent 3 points!"

Like, really?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

That is exactly it lol

Okay how about this (I'm noticing people are only complaining about my team)

Zaizen, the only character with 1 ANYTHING (feat, effect, aura) In the entire league, I will nerf. Just so everyone stops CRYING over something to do with my team,

-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead of the person. If playing doubles, Zaizen only takes the effect of the higher opponent when a giant space ape is doing a handstand at the exact moment of a solar eclipse on a Sunday before church during the year of the dragon.

How is that? Are the requirements enough for my level 20 character to not be broken?

Or would you rather me take Sherlock's suggestion and argue that both of your doubles characters were "arrogant" thus making Zaizen stronger and winning anyway?

Actually, he is not even close to being the only character with only 1 something in the entire league.

Akazawa, chinen, higashitaka, Kaneda...

...Also, Jiro is not arrogant! He is on drugs!

So Fayte, from your attempt at being ironic I'll assume you wanna take this effect:
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead.(Singles only)
Unless you actually want to include the whole eclipse thing, I'm totally cool with that.

How about that?

-Witty Name Here[Feat]:Zaizen gets boosted 3 points.
-Extra Baggage[Feat]:If playing against the weakest or second weakest member of a school, Zaizen gets boosted 5 points.
-Apathy[Effect]: If the opponent has an Effect, it is added to Zaizen instead.(Singles only)

Is that good enough for you? That makes him usable in doubles, and very useful in singles.