Fantasy GMG Jellal VS Future Rogue

[Shasha23]

Let's see here.

Durability:
- F. Rogue tanked a LF attack from Natsu.
- Jellal tanked two DF hits from Natsu, and this was Pre 1st TS.


Speed:
- F. Rogue outspeeding Base Natsu I guess? His shadow form is everything.
- Jellal was outspeeding DF Natsu. Jellal easily ran circles around Jura with Meteor, something Laxus couldn't even do, and Laxus > F. Rogue in every stat. Jellal was reacting to Racer without Meteor and blitzed him with Meteor.

DC:
F. Rogue has nothing.
Jellal has Sema.

Yeah, such a close matchup.

Though choice..

Natsu's stats were way higher when he fought Rogue than when he fought Jellal, his LFD mode was probably stronger than the DF power he used to fight Jellal.
Again early series DF Natsu is weaker than 2nd origin LFD Natsu, who might I add was pissed off because he couldn't safe Lucy and watched her die before his very eyes.

Jellal was not out pacing Natsu while he used DF, Jellal couldn't do a thing against DF Natsu.
If Jellal ran circles around Jura then how did Jura hit him?
Laxus was not > Rogue
Jellal was reacting to Racer who was in prison for 8-9 years and didn't develop once.

!!!!Your biggest problem here is you trying to compare different time lines without power scaling correctly!!!!

as for DC your just in denial here, a breath from Natsu was strong enough to cover Tenrou and at that point he was weaker than Rogue, what do you thing a breath from Rogue would do since he was stronger?

this is not though at all, people are just pro Jellal that's all, they all blind to the truth even seen one claim Jellal is the strongest human..........LOL please

 

[Arjuna]

Natsu's stats were way higher when he fought Rogue than when he fought Jellal, his LFD mode was probably stronger than the DF power he used to fight Jellal.
Again early series DF Natsu is weaker than 2nd origin LFD Natsu, who might I add was pissed off because he couldn't safe Lucy and watched her die before his very eyes.

Jellal was not out pacing Natsu while he used DF, Jellal couldn't do a thing against DF Natsu.
If Jellal ran circles around Jura then how did Jura hit him?
Laxus was not > Rogue
Jellal was reacting to Racer who was in prison for 8-9 years and didn't develop once.

!!!!Your biggest problem here is you trying to compare different time lines without power scaling correctly!!!!

as for DC your just in denial here, a breath from Natsu was strong enough to cover Tenrou and at that point he was weaker than Rogue, what do you thing a breath from Rogue would do since he was stronger?

this is not though at all, people are just pro Jellal that's all, they all blind to the truth even seen one claim Jellal is the strongest human..........LOL please

Yeah in His DF Natsu was Faster than Meteor Jellal.

 

[Shasha23]

Actually in His DF Natsu was Faster than Meteor Jellal.

Did you read my post?
Why are you repeating the same things I said?

 

[Arjuna]

Did you read my post?
Why are you repeating the same things I said?

I didn't mean to repeat.Just included The Meteor.Sorry if it hurt You.

 

[Mirage]

Natsu's stats were way higher when he fought Rogue than when he fought Jellal, his LFD mode was probably stronger than the DF power he used to fight Jellal.

Nah. DF Natsu busted a tower while LF Natsu didn't have any noteworthy DC feats. They should be around the same level if anything.

Again early series DF Natsu is weaker than 2nd origin LFD Natsu, who might I add was pissed off because he couldn't safe Lucy and watched her die before his very eyes.

There are no feats suggesting this. You're just saying this because it's convenient for you.

Jellal was not out pacing Natsu while he used DF, Jellal couldn't do a thing against DF Natsu.

DF Natsu blitzed Jellal and Jellal was still keeping up with his pace. Goes to show that Jellal can react and keep up with his own speed level. Keep in mind that this is Pre 1st TS too.

If Jellal ran circles around Jura then how did Jura hit him?

Jura couldn't even land ONE physical hit on Jellal. He had to resort to using his rocks to hit him from afar, and he only managed to
hit him because Jellal was casting Grand Chariot while flying.

Laxus was not > Rogue

Are you kidding me? F. Rogue has no stats over Laxus, whatsoever. You're comparing a high tier to top tiers.

Jellal was reacting to Racer who was in prison for 8-9 years and didn't develop once.

So? Racer being in jail is honestly such a desperate argument and quite frankly, irrelevant. He's still the fastest character in the series. The fact that Jellal was able to still react to Racer while under his time-affecting magic WITHOUT meteor already puts Jellal >> F. Rogue in speed.

Waiting for you to give me a F. Rogue speed feat that even comes close to what Jellal has achieved. Literally F. Rogue's best speed feat is keeping up with Base Natsu. That isn't impressive at all.

!!!!Your biggest problem here is you trying to compare different time lines without power scaling correctly!!!!

Scaling only applies to cross-verse matchups. You don't use scaling for characters that are from the same verse and who already have feats.

as for DC your just in denial here, a breath from Natsu was strong enough to cover Tenrou and at that point he was weaker than Rogue, what do you thing a breath from Rogue would do since he was stronger?

Denial? I'm the one backing up my arguments while you're just stating false statements.

Once again, scaling doesn't apply. Do you even know what DC and AoE mean? Show me F. Rogue's best DC feat. Right, he doesn't even have any DC.

White Shadow Dragon's Rough Silk is pretty dangerous since it one-shotted Natsu, but seeing as how Jellal is on a whole other level of speed from both Base Natsu and F. Rogue, I don't see the move landing at all.

this is not though at all, people are just pro Jellal that's all, they all blind to the truth even seen one claim Jellal is the strongest human..........LOL please

Even though I just debunked everything you said?

Yeah, sure.

Jellal isn't the strongest human Pre 2nd TS. I'd give that to Hades.

Tanking has such wide scope under your definition. Mard tanked a LFD attack and a DF attack, but it's clear that only the DF attack did any damage. Rogue wasn't damaged but Jellal was. You either compare durability thru the amount of damage they took by an equivalent attack or how big of an attack they took while taking equivalent damage. If that's impossible then you can scale or judge, but from the feats you gave it's either even or in Rogue's favour.

Tanking is tanking. You don't need to have no damage on you to tank an attack. As long as you're able to keep fighting, then you tanked the attack.

I believe I explained this to you once before. What you're referring to is called no-selling, where an attack does absolutely no damage to said character. Like Ezel not feeling a thing from Base Wendy's attacks. Enduring is more what the OS went through after Sema. They didn't tank the move but endured and survived it.

Jellal meteor got caught by DF Natsu. I think Meteor is faster than FRogue, but it's not much of a difference. It's not enough for Jellal to dominate the fight.

Kindly read my response to Sasha. There are multiple feats that tell us readers that Jellal is above F. Rogue in speed, and pretty much every stat.

 

[Brandish μ]

Tanking is tanking. You don't need to have no damage on you to tank an attack. As long as you're able to keep fighting, then you tanked the attack.

I believe I explained this to you once before. What you're referring to is called no-selling, where an attack does absolutely no damage to said character. Like Ezel not feeling a thing from Base Wendy's attacks. Enduring is more what the OS went through after Sema. They didn't tank the move but endured and survived it.


Kindly read my response to Sasha. There are multiple feats that tell us readers that Jellal is above F. Rogue in speed, and pretty much every stat.

I'm referring to the defn of tanking, which is to keep going. Basically this term encompasses everything from no-selling to almost-beaten. It's either a poor or lazy description of events. A comment on the damage one took is much more reflective. Rogue was seemingly unaffected, Jellal was hurt.

Yea I said Meteor is faster, but it's not like Jellal is going to be untouchable or anything. He's gonna get hit. Plus Jellal got 'caught' by DF Natsu. This is after Jellal claimed Natsu couldn't catch him and already got a head-start. It's clear DF Natsu > Meteor in speed.

 

[Mirage]

I'm referring to the defn of tanking, which is to keep going. Basically this term encompasses everything from no-selling to almost-beaten. It's either a poor or lazy description of events. A comment on the damage one took is much more reflective. Rogue was seemingly unaffected, Jellal was hurt.

1. DF > LFDM.
I don't want to hear the "LFDM > DF because of the timeskip" argument. It literally makes no sense. People just assume TS LFDM > Pre-TS DF simply because of a "TS", when they aren't any feats suggesting this.

DF Natsu busted a tower and LFDM did what? It's not like F. Rogue outright tanked a LFD Roar. He only took one random LFD attack, which he shrugged off, not tanked. Which also brings me to my next point.

2. Jellal took a straight up DF punch to the gut while F. Rogue shrugged off a LFDM attack with his forearm and blocked it. Blocking isn't the same thing as tanking, so there's also that.

Yea I said Meteor is faster, but it's not like Jellal is going to be untouchable or anything. He's gonna get hit. Plus Jellal got 'caught' by DF Natsu. This is after Jellal claimed Natsu couldn't catch him and already got a head-start. It's clear DF Natsu > Meteor in speed.

I don't see him getting touched, that's what feats tell me.

DF Natsu >= Pre 1st TS Jellal with Meteor in speed? Sure.

Now? No, Jellal has gotten new feats we need to go by, or else we're just downplaying characters.

Jellal outsped Jura when Laxus couldn't.
Jellal was reacting to Racer and also blitzed him.
F. Rogue was keeping up with Base Natsu.

How is F. Rogue going to tag Jellal when Racer couldn't even do anything?

Jellal was reacting to Racer WITHOUT meteor. Do you even understand that? That means even Base Jellal is > F. Rogue in speed. Meteor is overkill.

See the difference in speed? Someone like Jellal is too much for F. Rogue, where he outclasses him in every stat. Characters like Jura are more around F. Rogue's level.

 

[Brandish μ]

1. DF > LFDM.
I don't want to hear the "LFDM > DF because of the timeskip" argument. It literally makes no sense. People just assume TS LFDM > Pre-TS DF simply because of a "TS", when they aren't any feats suggesting this.

DF Natsu busted a tower and LFDM did what? It's not like F. Rogue outright tanked a LFD Roar. He only took one random LFD attack, which he shrugged off, not tanked. Which also brings me to my next point.

2. Jellal took a straight up DF punch to the gut while F. Rogue shrugged off a LFDM attack with his forearm and blocked it. Blocking isn't the same thing as tanking, so there's also that.

I literally made not timeskip arguments don't even know you brought it up.

At least you've gone further than just to call it tanking. However you're comparisons don't show Jellal has better durability, which is what you're implying. Jellal got hurt by more powerful attacks... yes I agree. But that tells us nothing because FRogue took no damage.

I don't see him getting touched, that's what feats tell me.

DF Natsu >= Pre 1st TS Jellal with Meteor in speed? Sure.

Now? No, Jellal has gotten new feats we need to go by, or else we're just downplaying characters.

Jellal outsped Jura when Laxus couldn't.
Jellal was reacting to Racer and also blitzed him.
F. Rogue was keeping up with Base Natsu.

How is F. Rogue going to tag Jellal when Racer couldn't even do anything?

Jellal was reacting to Racer WITHOUT meteor. Do you even understand that? That means even Base Jellal is > F. Rogue in speed. Meteor is overkill.

See the difference in speed? Someone like Jellal is too much for F. Rogue, where he outclasses him in every stat. Characters like Jura are more around F. Rogue's level.

Look I'll just concede here over Meteor being too fast to be hit. At any rate he has never stayed in Meteor for long.

Jellal's 'reacting' is a reflexes/agility thing where you can move out of the way or dodge. This happened in CQC. Do you even understand that? This is not like having a race. Can Jellal dodge FRogue's attacks without Meteor? Sure, some. FRogue is a much better CQC fighter than Racer...

 

[Mirage]

I literally made not timeskip arguments don't even know you brought it up.

Just in case.

Gotta be precautionary out here.

At least you've gone further than just to call it tanking. However you're comparisons don't show Jellal has better durability, which is what you're implying. Jellal got hurt by more powerful attacks... yes I agree. But that tells us nothing because FRogue took no damage.

Again, F. Rogue took no damage because:

1. He blocked the attack with his arm, not tank.
2. Random LFD attack.

Look I'll just concede here over Meteor being too fast to be hit. At any rate he has never stayed in Meteor for long.

You're treating Meteor like it's a huge drainer spell similar to Sema. I never saw Jellal exhausted after using Meteor, once.

It's like saying Laxus can't use Lightning Body for awhile because he hasn't shown to be in it for more than 30 seconds.

Jellal's 'reacting' is a reflexes/agility thing where you can move out of the way or dodge. This happened in CQC. Do you even understand that? This is not like having a race. Can Jellal dodge FRogue's attacks without Meteor? Sure, some. FRogue is a much better CQC fighter than Racer...

It's still falls under the speed category though...

What proof do you even have that F. Rogue is a better CQC fighter than Racer? All Racer relies on is his speed and CQC, while F. Rogue relies on mostly spells. So again, why is F. Rogue > Racer in CQC?

If anything, they're both average in CQC. Someone who's good in CQC are characters like Laxus, Erza, Kagura etc.

What matters here is not their "skill" level in CQC, but the speed of their strikes, and clearly Racer's strikes >>> F. Rogue's in speed.

 

[Axel Stone]

Natsu's stats were way higher when he fought Rogue than when he fought Jellal, his LFD mode was probably stronger than the DF power he used to fight Jellal.
Again early series DF Natsu is weaker than 2nd origin LFD Natsu, who might I add was pissed off because he couldn't safe Lucy and watched her die before his very eyes.

Jellal was not out pacing Natsu while he used DF, Jellal couldn't do a thing against DF Natsu.
If Jellal ran circles around Jura then how did Jura hit him?
Laxus was not > Rogue
Jellal was reacting to Racer who was in prison for 8-9 years and didn't develop once.

!!!!Your biggest problem here is you trying to compare different time lines without power scaling correctly!!!!

as for DC your just in denial here, a breath from Natsu was strong enough to cover Tenrou and at that point he was weaker than Rogue, what do you thing a breath from Rogue would do since he was stronger?

this is not though at all, people are just pro Jellal that's all, they all blind to the truth even seen one claim Jellal is the strongest human..........LOL please

-Natsu's LFD mode which is strictly his own power is not > DF Natsu.
-Natsu's DF Mode was allowed for him to absorb Etherion<-- a magical power. Stated to be a nation-destroying Magic that is capable of transcending space-time. That much amount of magical fuel is excessively greater than Natsu using LFD.
-Laxus has superior feats to Rogue in every department.
-Racer despite his regressive development has shown to be the fastest character in the series, when he was toying around with Erza amongst others.
Tone down your rudeness and accusations.

 

[Coné]

Jellal is superior in all stats, so he wins mid to high diff.

Gotta be precautionary out here.

Gotta be careful out here in the woods

 

[Holt]

Jellal is good and all but I'd give this to future rogue possibly high difficulty. Future rogue was very capable. Natsu was unable to defeat him until he got a power up from Atlas flame and this is considering Future rogue didn't even use Dragon force (which should be possible for him).
He also has dual slayer magic and the pesky shadows.
GMG Jellal would certainly put up a great fight but it won't be enough.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Jellal is superior in all stats, so he wins mid to high diff.


Gotta be careful out here in the woods

I don't see how GMG Jellal is superior in all stats... If that is the case, then he would beat Future Rogue with Low Difficulty which is not the case. In fact, he was even proven to be quite 'nervous' after sensing the amount of magical energy in Future Rogue. Therefore, that argument is baseless unless you can show me evidence or proof to back it up. Taking down all of Oración Seis solo wouldn't be sufficient enough of a feat to argue otherwise because he used technically finished them off using one attack, Sema in this case, in which the casting time is long enough for Future Rogue to dodge. Even if it were to hit Future Rogue, saying that it will critically injure him or kill him would require a lot of explaining.

 

[Coné]

I don't see how GMG Jellal is superior in all stats... If that is the case, then he would beat Future Rogue with Low Difficulty which is not the case. In fact, he was even proven to be quite 'nervous' after sensing the amount of magical energy in Future Rogue. Therefore, that argument is baseless unless you can show me evidence or proof to back it up. Taking down all of Oración Seis solo wouldn't be sufficient enough of a feat to argue otherwise because he used technically finished them off using one attack, Sema in this case, in which the casting time is long enough for Future Rogue to dodge. Even if it were to hit Future Rogue, saying that it will critically injure him or kill him would require a lot of explaining.

No... Jellal might be superior in all stats but that doesn't mean that he beats him low diff...
So Future Rogue has more Magical Power than Jellal. Which doesn't really indicate anything tbh.

For speed, we got Jellal keeping up with both Cobra and Racer without Meteor and blitzing them with Meteor. He also blitzed Jura whereas Laxus only managed to keep up with him. Or is Laxus slower than someone who was as fast as LFD Natsu? I don't think so, so Jellal is faster than Future Rogue.
For attack potency, Jellal has Grand Chariot and Sema. What does Future Rogue have? The feat of affecting LFD Natsu who was inferior to Jellal? So Jellal also has more attack potency than Future Rogue.
For durability, Jellal tanked 2 hits from DF Natsu before trying to cast Abyss Break. DF Natsu also has the feat of destroying the Tower of Heaven and he has a town busting feat against Zero with a weaker version of Dragon Force. So there's that. Future Rogue's durability feats? Defending against LFD Natsu's attacks, which doesn't even account for durability but yet for attack potency, tanking base Natsu's attacks and being trashed by Atlas Flame-empowered Natsu, who's more or less as strong as DF Natsu. So Jellal has better durability than F Rogue.

Racer wasn't able to dodge Sema and its casting only takes three panels. It was also assumed that Jura wouldn't be able to dodge it, the same Jura who has the same combat speed as Laxus. How's Future Rogue dodging that?

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

No... Jellal might be superior in all stats but that doesn't mean that he beats him low diff...
So Future Rogue has more Magical Power than Jellal. Which doesn't really indicate anything tbh.

Yeah, it pretty much does. Nobody says that a character is superior in all stats lightly. That is a pretty bold statement alone. Do you even know how many stats there are? If you were to be superior in all stats, you should have no problem defeating the other opponent. Give me an example of someone who is superior in all stats, yet it would result in a High Difficulty fight.

Magical Power is probably the most important stat in Fairy Tail... Just like how Intelligence is the most important in Deathnote. I know Durability, Speed, and other stats are important too but to say that Future Rogue having more Magical Power than Jellal, yet it does not indicate anything, is a very weak statement.

For speed, we got Jellal keeping up with both Cobra and Racer without Meteor and blitzing them with Meteor. He also blitzed Jura whereas Laxus only managed to keep up with him. Or is Laxus slower than someone who was as fast as LFD Natsu? I don't think so, so Jellal is faster than Future Rogue.

Future Rogue is already fast in his shadow form like many of you keep boasting about. Except this time, Future Rogue is clearly seen to be quick in speed with his White Shadow Dragon's Sword Horn. Even if it is not as fast as Racer, he can use the same technique that Gray did because Rogue does not lack in intelligence like other characters. Basically, he just needs to get outside of Racer's range and use the beam he used against Future Lucy to one-shot him. It is as easy as that. Racer is already proven to be slow with the exception of his slowing magic which is more like an illusion. Future Rogue is definitely faster than Cobra as well.

For attack potency, Jellal has Grand Chariot and Sema. What does Future Rogue have? The feat of affecting LFD Natsu who was inferior to Jellal? So Jellal also has more attack potency than Future Rogue.

Grand Chariot and Sema are is not superior to Future Rogue whatsoever. You are confusing AoE with Attack Damage. AoE is only useful in anything other than a 1v1 like Jellal vs. Oración Seis. Otherwise, all you need is pure damage to defeat your opponent. At this point, it seems like you are trying to win the argument. Future Rogue's attack potency is way higher than Jellal with his White Shadow Dragon's Rough Silk. He also has other strong attacks like Shadow Dragon's Blade or Shadow Dragon's Crushing Fang.

For durability, Jellal tanked 2 hits from DF Natsu before trying to cast Abyss Break. DF Natsu also has the feat of destroying the Tower of Heaven and he has a town busting feat against Zero with a weaker version of Dragon Force. So there's that. Future Rogue's durability feats? Defending against LFD Natsu's attacks, which doesn't even account for durability but yet for attack potency, tanking base Natsu's attacks and being trashed by Atlas Flame-empowered Natsu, who's more or less as strong as DF Natsu. So Jellal has better durability than F Rogue.

Jellal was half-struggling with DF Natsu... So that does not prove anything. Plus, this is DF Natsu from Tower of Heaven Arc... Are you really saying Tower of Heaven DF Natsu > GMG LFD Natsu? That would be completely absurd. The fact is that Future Rogue held his own against Natsu without any damage inflicted on him for 3 fights. Natsu was clearly losing the fight. Future Rogue should have equal or more durability than Jellal. If not, he can still use his shadow form for intangibility like most of you stress in other threads. Attacks like Shadow Dragon's Vortex would completely swallow Jellal while Shadow Dragon's Eruption would allow him to dodge attacks and inflict heavy damage immediately afterwards.

Racer wasn't able to dodge Sema and its casting only takes three panels. It was also assumed that Jura wouldn't be able to dodge it, the same Jura who has the same combat speed as Laxus. How's Future Rogue dodging that?

Casting only takes three panels... That seems pretty long if you ask me. Future Rogue can use his destructive attacks in less than one if that. Racer not being able to dodge Sema does not mean anything because Future Rogue has intangibility + speed. Jura in incredibly slow in speed. He is like Elfman or Torafusa. I can't care less about combat speed because Future Rogue is quick in that respect as well. I can give you that some of these characters have quick reflexes but that is different because so does Future Rogue and everyone else that we've seen prove themselves of it.

See how annoying it is when I use intangibility for everything? This is exactly how baseless it is especially since 90% of users use that in other threads. But it seems like this time, I have the opportunity to use it.

 

[Axiomus]

Doesn't future Rogue turn into light when he does that thing to cut Natsu? I see that as being faster than meteor by a whole lot. However, since we don't see Rogue ever abusing this attack like Jellal does with meteors speed, Jellal should be faster most of the time. Though this probably wouldn't be that huge of an issue since Rogue's WSD Silk is basically beams of shadows and light... which are fast moving objects in their own right.

I have no idea how to scale Rogue's DC to Jellal's, so I'm not even going to try. I do think beating all of Oracion Seis is more impressive than beating LFD Natsu. Though Rogue seemed to have the upper hand against AF-Natsu until Atlas himself gave a hand (no pun intended), so that kind of throws me off again.

I would say if we see the twin dragons go up against a Spriggan and win...that's going to change my opinion on Rogue a lot. That should make Rogue somewhat of a Ishgar Saint level.

 

[Coné]

Yeah, it pretty much does. Nobody says that a character is superior in all stats lightly. That is a pretty bold statement alone. Do you even know how many stats there are? If you were to be superior in all stats, you should have no problem defeating the other opponent. Give me an example of someone who is superior in all stats, yet it would result in a High Difficulty fight.

I obviously mean the most important stats such as attack potency, durability, reaction speed, combat speed and movement speed.

Magical Power is probably the most important stat in Fairy Tail... Just like how Intelligence is the most important in Deathnote. I know Durability, Speed, and other stats are important too but to say that Future Rogue having more Magical Power than Jellal, yet it does not indicate anything, is a very weak statement.

How does the amount of Magical Power reflect the character's combat ability? If F Rogue with more MP than Jellal can't pull attacks on the same scale, having more MP is kind of a useless stat in the battle.

Future Rogue is already fast in his shadow form like many of you keep boasting about. Except this time, Future Rogue is clearly seen to be quick in speed with his White Shadow Dragon's Sword Horn. Even if it is not as fast as Racer, he can use the same technique that Gray did because Rogue does not lack in intelligence like other characters. Basically, he just needs to get outside of Racer's range and use the beam he used against Future Lucy to one-shot him. It is as easy as that. Racer is already proven to be slow with the exception of his slowing magic which is more like an illusion. Future Rogue is definitely faster than Cobra as well.

And Meteor Jellal is much faster than Cobra and Racer together. He's faster than F Rogue, and it's not that close. Also, having a light form means jackshit since we don't know if it actually has the same properties as real light.

Grand Chariot and Sema are is not superior to Future Rogue whatsoever. You are confusing AoE with Attack Damage. AoE is only useful in anything other than a 1v1 like Jellal vs. Oración Seis. Otherwise, all you need is pure damage to defeat your opponent. At this point, it seems like you are trying to win the argument. Future Rogue's attack potency is way higher than Jellal with his White Shadow Dragon's Rough Silk. He also has other strong attacks like Shadow Dragon's Blade or Shadow Dragon's Crushing Fang.

No, I'm not confusing anything. White Shadow Dragon's Rough Silk wasn't even enough to take LFD Natsu down and Sema is just a meteor. The AoE you're getting is from the explosion it caused afterwards, because the meteor has its own Potential Energy. Meaning that if it falls on F Rogue, it's defeating him for sure.

Jellal was half-struggling with DF Natsu... So that does not prove anything. Plus, this is DF Natsu from Tower of Heaven Arc... Are you really saying Tower of Heaven DF Natsu > GMG LFD Natsu? That would be completely absurd. The fact is that Future Rogue held his own against Natsu without any damage inflicted on him for 3 fights. Natsu was clearly losing the fight. Future Rogue should have equal or more durability than Jellal. If not, he can still use his shadow form for intangibility like most of you stress in other threads. Attacks like Shadow Dragon's Vortex would completely swallow Jellal while Shadow Dragon's Eruption would allow him to dodge attacks and inflict heavy damage immediately afterwards.

Jellal tanked a couple of DF Natsu's attacks. The same DF Natsu who destroyed the Tower of Heaven, which is a town busting feat by itself. And yeah, ToH DF Natsu actually has better feats than GMG LFD Natsu. Just like Tenrou LFD Natsu is well above GMG LFD Natsu. Also, F Rogue's intang is clearly limited since Natsu managed to touch him and Jellal wouldn't just be standing there waiting to be hit by F Rogue's attacks. He would dodge them since he has superior speed.

Casting only takes three panels... That seems pretty long if you ask me. Future Rogue can use his destructive attacks in less than one if that. Racer not being able to dodge Sema does not mean anything because Future Rogue has intangibility + speed. Jura in incredibly slow in speed. He is like Elfman or Torafusa. I can't care less about combat speed because Future Rogue is quick in that respect as well. I can give you that some of these characters have quick reflexes but that is different because so does Future Rogue and everyone else that we've seen prove themselves of it.

Three panels isn't long at all. And it's like 4 panels to cast and to fall. F Rogue's attacks wouldn't have that much effect on Jellal since they weren't enough to one-shot GMG Natsu and again, F Rogue's intangibility is limited. And Jura isn't incredibly slow. He kept up with GMG Laxus, who's faster than F Rogue as far as I'm concerned, and blitzed Orga.

See how annoying it is when I use intangibility for everything? This is exactly how baseless it is especially since 90% of users use that in other threads. But it seems like this time, I have the opportunity to use it.

I've never used it as a main argument because how limited intangibility in the FTverse is.

 

[Axel Stone]

No... Jellal might be superior in all stats but that doesn't mean that he beats him low diff...
So Future Rogue has more Magical Power than Jellal. Which doesn't really indicate anything tbh.

For speed, we got Jellal keeping up with both Cobra and Racer without Meteor and blitzing them with Meteor. He also blitzed Jura whereas Laxus only managed to keep up with him. Or is Laxus slower than someone who was as fast as LFD Natsu? I don't think so, so Jellal is faster than Future Rogue.
For attack potency, Jellal has Grand Chariot and Sema. What does Future Rogue have? The feat of affecting LFD Natsu who was inferior to Jellal? So Jellal also has more attack potency than Future Rogue.
For durability, Jellal tanked 2 hits from DF Natsu before trying to cast Abyss Break. DF Natsu also has the feat of destroying the Tower of Heaven and he has a town busting feat against Zero with a weaker version of Dragon Force. So there's that. Future Rogue's durability feats? Defending against LFD Natsu's attacks, which doesn't even account for durability but yet for attack potency, tanking base Natsu's attacks and being trashed by Atlas Flame-empowered Natsu, who's more or less as strong as DF Natsu. So Jellal has better durability than F Rogue.

Racer wasn't able to dodge Sema and its casting only takes three panels. It was also assumed that Jura wouldn't be able to dodge it, the same Jura who has the same combat speed as Laxus. How's Future Rogue dodging that?

Jellal is not faster than F.Rogue, he doesn't have the durability as F.Rogue, he doesn't have the MP or knowledge as F.Rogue does, and F.Rogue is far more versatile. Keeping up with Cobra isn't impressive without Cubelios helping him. Racer who was fastest character in the manga only when no one knows of his weakness, but he was pretty much fodder at that point because of his regressive use of magic and plus of Jellal knowing his weakness.

Why do people constantly use this as an argument? He didn't blitz a serious Jura. Jura was toying around him from the start and only started to get serious once he found out Mystogan's identity. So blitzing a non-serious Jura isn't even that impressive.

So apparently get your ass kicked, failure to get back up, and struggling to even stand up means to "tank" an attack nowadays? what kind of flawed use of tanking are you even going by?

Assumption means nothing. Jura can counter Sema with Mt.Fuji.

F.Rogue wins this mid-diff.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

How does the amount of Magical Power reflect the character's combat ability? If F Rogue with more MP than Jellal can't pull attacks on the same scale, having more MP is kind of a useless stat in the battle.

This is exactly what I'm trying to explain in my last post. The problem with scaling attacks and determining it's size is that it does not mean anything. AoE is separate from actual magic power. Yes they are related but not the same. Future Rogue having more MP is not useless because it proves he has more MP worth in his attacks than Jellal. Yes, his attacks aren't as big but the concentration of magical energy is definitely higher as we see it penetrates the body plus it is used against characters that have improved immensely compared to characters from different arcs.

And Meteor Jellal is much faster than Cobra and Racer together. He's faster than F Rogue, and it's not that close. Also, having a light form means jackshit since we don't know if it actually has the same properties as real light.

Either way, Future Rogue is fast himself. Saying that he cannot keep up with meteor is essentially saying that he is slower than Natsu/Jura which is definitely not the case as we can see purely from Future Rogue's capabilities.

No, I'm not confusing anything. White Shadow Dragon's Rough Silk wasn't even enough to take LFD Natsu down and Sema is just a meteor. The AoE you're getting is from the explosion it caused afterwards, because the meteor has its own Potential Energy. Meaning that if it falls on F Rogue, it's defeating him for sure.

Well of course that attack was not enough to take down LFD Natsu. The question is would Sema have the same effect or greater? It probably wouldn't do anything. I know that the AoE is caused from the explosion following but that does not imply that it is stronger than Future Rogue's attacks. A meteor defeating Future Rogue because it lands on him is baseless because someone like Gildarts can already destroy mountains. Future Rogue being killed by the amount of weight or gravitational potential energy means nothing.

Jellal tanked a couple of DF Natsu's attacks. The same DF Natsu who destroyed the Tower of Heaven, which is a town busting feat by itself. And yeah, ToH DF Natsu actually has better feats than GMG LFD Natsu. Just like Tenrou LFD Natsu is well above GMG LFD Natsu. Also, F Rogue's intang is clearly limited since Natsu managed to touch him and Jellal wouldn't just be standing there waiting to be hit by F Rogue's attacks. He would dodge them since he has superior speed.

You can argue however way you want on this. But clearly Tartaros Natsu is stronger than he was in the Tower of Heaven Arc. He even went against Mard Geer. Yes, he was using Dragon Force but my point here is that even his Base Form is stronger than his DF form in the Tower of Heaven Arc. Mard Geer would kill Tower of Heaven Jellal with No Difficulty. We saw Future Rogue pulling Natsu into the ground with him so that shows that Natsu could have lost to his shadow form had Ultear not been there to provide support.

Three panels isn't long at all. And it's like 4 panels to cast and to fall. F Rogue's attacks wouldn't have that much effect on Jellal since they weren't enough to one-shot GMG Natsu and again, F Rogue's intangibility is limited. And Jura isn't incredibly slow. He kept up with GMG Laxus, who's faster than F Rogue as far as I'm concerned, and blitzed Orga.

Okay, fine. Three panels is short to you. But the fact is that Future Rogue can still use his attacks before Jellal. Therefore, he is quick enough to actually stop Jellal from casting Sema, putting him at a disadvantage.

I've never used it as a main argument because how limited intangibility in the FTverse is.

You might not have used it as a main argument but the amount of times you and other users mentioned it was way greater than any other feat that was displayed.

 

[Coné]

Jellal is not faster than F.Rogue, he doesn't have the durability as F.Rogue, he doesn't have the MP or knowledge as F.Rogue does, and F.Rogue is far more versatile. Keeping up with Cobra isn't impressive without Cubelios helping him. Racer who was fastest character in the manga only when no one knows of his weakness, but he was pretty much fodder at that point because of his regressive use of magic and plus of Jellal knowing his weakness.

Why do people constantly use this as an argument? He didn't blitz a serious Jura. Jura was toying around him from the start and only started to get serious once he found out Mystogan's identity. So blitzing a non-serious Jura isn't even that impressive.

So apparently get your ass kicked, failure to get back up, and struggling to even stand up means to "tank" an attack nowadays? what kind of flawed use of tanking are you even going by?

Assumption means nothing. Jura can counter Sema with Mt.Fuji.

F.Rogue wins this mid-diff.

Jellal's faster than Laxus. Do you seriously think that Future Rogue's faster than Laxus? Future Rogue's best tanking feats was with LFD Natsu. GMG LFD Natsu is small town level at best. Not superior to ToH DF Natsu. Who cares about MP and knowledge when Jellal has a city buster and something that forced Jura to use his best defensive spell? Future Rogue has nothing on that level and he's not more versatile than Jellal since Jellal has Darkness Magic, Heavenly Body Magic and he has mastered four elements (Abyss Break). Blitzing Racer and Cobra was barely Jellal's best speed feat. He was too fast for Jura to react, the same Jura who blitzed Orga and kept up with Laxus.

He wasn't toying with Jellal. He might have been surprised the first time, but the second time, Jura had no excuses of "not being serious". Jellal is faster than both Laxus and Jura, and we have in-panel proof of that.

He didn't get his ass kicked. @Chaos explained this rather well above. He took a couple of DF Natsu's attacks and casted Abyss Break afterwards (his strongest spell). He took the attacks head on and kept fighting. This is proof of durability no matter how you see it

Sema actually has PE which we can use to get its potency. Mt Fuji takes longer to charge and there's actually no evidence that it's as strong as Sema.

He doesn't, and I've proved why.