Discussion Goku vs Superman

[KnightLancer]

Well, actually, both Gog and Doomsday have superspeed as part of their powersets...

Doomsday has superspeed reflexes anyway, not the ability to propel himself at superfast speeds...

And Shaggy Man? I chalk that up to Plot-Induced-Stupidity...the same thing that allows the Flash to get hit. Ever.

But I won't continue this fight, it's just not worth keeping up. You can believe that Goku would beat Superman, Pre-Crisis Superman, Superman 1 Million, Superman Prime, Mr. Mxypltzk, Sentry, Galactus, the Living Tribunal, Dark Schneider, Tsunami-kami-sama, Mephisto, Ryoko with 3 Gems, Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, Odin, the Celestials, Silver Surfer, Dr. Doom with Preptime with help from Reed Richards, PC Superman, and Washuu, the Beyonder, or the goddamn Presence/One Above All/God or whoever anyone might bring up or have brought up against Goku.

I'll believe what I want believe.

It's obvious that no amount of arguing is ever going to win over either side. Unless of course, Alan Moore, Alex Ross, Mark Waid, Geoff Johns, Richard Donner, and Kurt Busiek summon the ghosts of Siegel and Shuster to get Toriyama and another manga artist of his choice to fight on some astral-physical battle plane in order to determine which fictional creation would win. Afterwards they'd all go beat up Michael Turner for drawing Supergirl like a Superskank.

All that aside, I am walking away. (In a figurative sense)

Hm...

Who was that guy who thought Smoker from One-Piece wouldn't beat Superman?

 

[ronson]

Why not start a Z vs precrisis superman?

But point noted KnightLancer, unless it happens not many people will switch sides. And obviously Goku wouldn't kill Washuu or Tsunami lol. Allt hey'd have to do is destroy Universe 3

 

[KnightLancer]

Oh and by the way, the screenplay (as in, what actually happens in the movie) for Bardock, Father of Goku was written by Takao Koyama, Toriyama is only credited for creating the characters, not writing the story itself.

Infact, Koyama wrote just about all the DBZ movies...

Courtesy of Anime News Network...

 

[Phenomenol]

Well, actually, both Gog and Doomsday have superspeed as part of their powersets...Doomsday has superspeed reflexes anyway, not the ability to propel himself at superfast speeds...And Shaggy Man? I chalk that up to Plot-Induced-Stupidity...the same thing that allows the Flash to get hit. Ever.

Gog and Doomsday only have superspeed when it comes to flight. Superman and his rogues don't even fight at superspeed like the Z Senshi do.

But I won't continue this fight, it's just not worth keeping up. You can believe that Goku would beat Superman, Pre-Crisis Superman, Superman 1 Million, Superman Prime, Mr. Mxypltzk, Sentry, Galactus, the Living Tribunal, Dark Schneider, Tsunami-kami-sama, Mephisto, Ryoko with 3 Gems, Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, Odin, the Celestials, Silver Surfer, Dr. Doom with Preptime with help from Reed Richards, PC Superman, and Washuu, the Beyonder, or the goddamn Presence/One Above All/God or whoever anyone might bring up or have brought up against Goku.

The characters that are in bold, Goku can beat!

The characters not in bold Goku would lose too.

 

[ronson]

There is no chance Goku could beat Washuu OR Tsunami. Plain and simple. They can travel betweern dimensions ffs, he would even land a hit on him. Not to mention the fact that they created the universe and was there before the start of time. Don't even say anything like that.

 

[Phenomenol]

There is no chance Goku could beat Washuu OR Tsunami. Plain and simple. They can travel betweern dimensions ffs, he would even land a hit on him. Not to mention the fact that they created the universe and was there before the start of time. Don't even say anything like that.

Goku can travel between dimensions, so what is your point?

Goku fights at lightspeed!

If Washuu and Tsunami aren't omnipotent they can't beat Goku.

 

[Roanapur]

Alright, I don't concede.

http://www.daizex.com/general/podcast/ (last podcast 0051)

There is no publication called "Super Otaku Magazine", unless you can provide proof that it exists.

I call forgery until proven otherwise.

 

[KnightLancer]

Well, there is an "Otaku Magazine"...

They might have changed names or something...

But yeah, Super Otaku Magazine doesn't get any direct hits in Google, or any references or links with those 3 words together... Unless it's some japanese-only magazine that is only referred to by it's Japanese name...

Phenomenol, by your saying that a character's lack of omnipotency means they'd be beaten by Goku, does that mean you think Goku is omnipotent, or at least as close to it as you can get without actually being so?

Tsunami would rape Goku, so would the Dr. Doom/Mr. Fantastic/Washuu trio, PC Superman, Superman 1 Million, Superman Prime, Silver Surfer, Galactus, and really, most of the people you bolded.

Well, actually, Washuu or any of the Supermen would destroy Goku on their own if they bothered to try. With Washuu helping ridiculous super-geniuses like Doom, Richards, and the super-smart Superdick PC Superman, Goku's going to be in for some serious humiliation, probably involving barrels, nudity, and a lovely gorilla bride-to-be.

I mean come on...GALACTUS? He has the power to warp reality itself, he destroys galaxies as a by-product of his fights if he really bothers to get serious. Silver Surfer, Galactus' herald who only has a fraction of Galactus' power would own Goku so badly it's not even funny. And Dark Schneider? What with his tons of auto-shields, monster regen, FTL fighting speed, and ridiculously powerful attacks, you think Goku would beat THAT GUY?!

JEEZ...

EDIT: Wait, the interview WAS a forgery. Straight from the exact same forum where the link led to.

It should. It and it's "brothers"(as in the other interviews from the same "source") were made up on a forum a long time ago, apparently as an attempt to bring others to the "fanboy religions" of he who made them. Razz This, the interview of Toriyama saying "Paikuhan is ugly and that Piccolo will be stronger than him", and the one where it's stated by Toriyama that ssj2 Gohan's powerlevel was 250 million are the three ol' fake interviews I remember from there. I think it's clear how ignorant the one who made them up was from numerous things such as name inconsistancy and focuses on things interviews would never be about(you can tell by how much they focus on things like "who's stronger than who"(and back then people still believed that the official power for ssj Goku was 15 million, rather than 150 million, so I guess ssj2 Gohan being 250 million would seem right back then, but the fact is that would make him less than twice as strong as ssj Goku was lol)).

Nevermind that the interviewer's name doesn't sound like any Japanese person's name (and that the interviewer is hardly ever identified other than by the name of the publication itself)... eww. Just eww. Confused

Yeah yeah, great proof trying to use an obvious fake for your argument. Oi, Phenomenol, try getting some real proof next time instead of trying to pass off bullshit as evidence. I mean really now, the guy who posted the interview was wondering about its authenticity himself.

 

[Phenomenol]

Alright, I don't concede.There is no publication called "Super Otaku Magazine", unless you can provide proof that it exists.

I call forgery until proven otherwise.

Prove that the interview doesn't exist? Especially when I gave you a source HOLDING the interview.

Tsunami would rape Goku, so would the Dr. Doom/Mr. Fantastic/Washuu trio, PC Superman, Superman 1 Million, Superman Prime, Silver Surfer, Galactus, and really, most of the people you bolded. Well, actually, Washuu or any of the Supermen would destroy Goku on their own if they bothered to try. With Washuu helping ridiculous super-geniuses like Doom, Richards, and the super-smart Superdick PC Superman, Goku's going to be in for some serious humiliation, probably involving barrels, nudity, and a lovely gorilla bride-to-be.

Goku > ANY Superman/Silver Surfer/Dr. Doom/Galactus. I ACTUALLY read comics.

I mean come on...GALACTUS? He has the power to warp reality itself, he destroys galaxies as a by-product of his fights if he really bothers to get serious. Silver Surfer, Galactus' herald who only has a fraction of Galactus' power would own Goku so badly it's not even funny. And Dark Schneider? What with his tons of auto-shields, monster regen, FTL fighting speed, and ridiculously powerful attacks, you think Goku would beat THAT GUY?! JEEZ...

Galactus has NEVER warped reality in any of his battles. Galactus Vs. Tyrant fight did NOT destroy any galaxies it was simply Hyperbole. Galactus has been beaten by weaklings too many times to even look at Goku. Silver Surfer has been knocked out TOOO many times to beat Goku, Goku would also KO the Surfer. Dark Schneider does NOT fight at FTL speeds, his auto shields has been ripped by weak attacks and has ALMOST been killed by having his arm and legs torn off by a crappy attacks. Goku defeats him easily.

EDIT: Wait, the interview WAS a forgery. Straight from the exact same forum where the link led to. Yeah yeah, great proof trying to use an obvious fake for your argument. Oi, Phenomenol, try getting some real proof next time instead of trying to pass off bullshit as evidence. I mean really now, the guy who posted the interview was wondering about its authenticity himself.

Really? Did anyone on that forum ACTUALLY PROVE that the interview was fake? No they did not, considering the source that I put up STILL holds the interview. It is fact until disproven.

 

[KnightLancer]

Considering that they, ya know, locked the thread you created labeled "Super Otaku Magazine real??!!" (Implying that you're not even sure of its veracity yourself...)

That, and apparently the entire membership of the Daizenshuu EX forum, the forum that it was posted on, considers it fake. Excluding you of course, because you must be right, and everybody else who says otherwise must be wrong.

And there's no information concerning any "Super Otaku Magazine" to be found. All the evidence points to that interview being 100% bullshit.

Quite frankly, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the interview, and the magazine itself is real. Just like how the burden of proof is on crazy conspiracists to prove UFOs are real, and not on everyone else to prove that UFOs are fake.

Hahaha...

This reminds me of a "Kids in the Hall" sketch, or some other sketch comedy show, where a scientist misuses his entire grant on women and parties, and tries to pass off a Golden Retriever as a new species of wolf...

 

[Roanapur]

The burden of proof is on you to show that it does exist, Phenomenol.

I can't prove a negative.

 

[KnightLancer]

Hm, no comeback Phenom?

 

[ronson]

Yeh well, Phenom is retarded. I mean as much as i like Goku, the majority of the people you mentioned he couldn't beat.

And inregards to the omnipotent business, they can turn in to that state instanteneously.

Ryoko with 3 gems? I'm not sure how powerful that is, she doesn't seem all that strong in any of the animes.

Knight, do you like Tenchi X?

 

[Phenomenol]

Forget about the magazine.....

DBZ still fights at faster than lightspeeds and their is tons of examples proving this in the Manga/Anime.

1. Goku (as a child) was trained by Mr. Popo to "move FASTER than lightning!"

2. Ki blasts are faster than light(Ki blasts ARE light)!.

3. Goku fought Yakkon the "Light Eater". A single beam of light can not escape his absorption powers giving him the properties of a Black hole.

The list goes on...........

@Ronson: You obviosuly don't know much about comics or crappy ass Tenchi Muyo! Goku kicks their @#$. I actually read/seen the characters Knight listed. care to prove me wrong.

 

[Roanapur]

1. Goku (as a child) was trained by Mr. Popo to "move FASTER than lightning!"

trained to do something =/= actually being able to do it

2. Ki blasts are faster than light(Ki blasts ARE light)!.

No they aren't.

They're ki energy in it's purest form, from my understanding. They give off light, but aren't light themselves.

3. Goku fought Yakkon the "Light Eater". A single beam of light can not escape his absorption powers giving him the properties of a Black hole.

Can you explain this in more detail?

Was this "black hole" actually employed against, and failed to dispose of, Goku?

 

[Phenomenol]

trained to do something =/= actually being able to do it

Goku came out more powerful than Mr. Popo after the training! That means he was faster than lightning.

No they aren't. They're ki energy in it's purest form, from my understanding. They give off light, but aren't light themselves.

WRONG!!! Ki blasts are light and they move at lightspeed.

Can you explain this in more detail? Was this "black hole" actually employed against, and failed to dispose of, Goku?

Yes, Yakkon continued to suck the "LIGHT (Goku Super Saiya-jin form/energy)" Goku wasn't even sucked in by Yakkon's black hole properties. Light can not escape yakkon's absorption powers.

DBZ fight at lightspeeds/Faster.

 

[KnightLancer]

So Ki blasts are really giant lasers now?

Because it was my understanding that Ki =/= Light.

Also, lightning is not as fast as light.
Lightning can only go up to 100,000 miles per hour in the atmosphere. Slow compared to actual lightspeed.

(http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/news/sty/2003/lightning_kills062003.htm)

And Yakkon is a light eating monster from a planet of darkness. As in, his power is to specifically absorb light. Black holes suck in light because of their incredible gravity, a completely different phenomenon from what Yakkon does.
If he did have the properties of a black hole, how is the earth didn't get super-compressed and sucked into him? Oh yeah, because he doesn't have the properties of a black hole, all he can do is suck up light.
Hell, Dr. Light can draw in light, does that suddenly mean he has abilities like the characteristics of a black hole?

Saying Yakken absorbs light therefore Yakkon = Black Hole is total bullshit.

Quit pulling stuff out of your ass Phenom.
---
And you really think Goku would beat Tsunami? A multiversal level Goddess who can wield enough power, that when she had a minor fight with another Goddess Tokimi, they destroyed a quarter of a galaxy? Tsunami, who, with Washuu and Tokimi, created the universe? I mean, really now. You think Goku wouldn't beat the Beyonder (who's just a cosmic cube anyway), but WOULD beat Tsunami, who's at least on-par with the Beyonder?

Jeez...

 

[Phenomenol]

So Ki blasts are really giant lasers now?

Because it was my understanding that Ki =/= Light.

Also, lightning is not as fast as light.
Lightning can only go up to 100,000 miles per hour in the atmosphere. Slow compared to actual lightspeed.

(http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/news/sty/2003/lightning_kills062003.htm)

And Yakkon is a light eating monster from a planet of darkness. As in, his power is to specifically absorb light. Black holes suck in light because of their incredible gravity, a completely different phenomenon from what Yakkon does.
Hell, Dr. Light can draw in light, does that suddenly mean he has abilities like the characteristics of a black hole?

Quit pulling stuff out of your ass Phenom.

Ki blasts are light!!! They move at lightspeed as you already saw how fast they instantly blow up the moon and hit space.

Also Goku was only a damn child when he was moving FASTER than lightning (not lightning speed). Lightning is half the speed of light and Goku was FASTER than that, period.

Wrong!!! Whenever light cannot escape Yakkon's ABSORPTION powers that means he has the properties of a Black hole, you moron.

DBZ= Faster than light speeds!!!

 

[Roanapur]

Ki blasts are light!!! They move at lightspeed as you already saw how fast they instantly blow up the moon and hit space.

But that's inconsistent with other events in the series.

It also doesn't prove that DBZ characters can move at FTL speeds.

Also Goku was only a damn child when he was moving FASTER than lightning (not lightning speed). Lightning is half the speed of light and Goku was FASTER than that, period.

That's some funny math, Phenom.

Actual light moves at 186,000 miles per second, yet lightning moves at 100,000 miles per hour. 60 seconds per minute with 60 minutes per hour.

That means that light is 3,600 times faster than lightning.

Wrong!!! Whenever light cannot escape Yakkon's ABSORPTION powers that means he has the properties of a Black hole, you moron.

But if his power specifically absorbs light....

 

[Phenomenol]

That's some funny math, Phenom.

Actual light moves at 186,000 miles per second, yet lightning moves at 100,000 miles per hour. 60 seconds per minute with 60 minutes per hour.

That means that light is 3,600 times faster than lightning.

His power specifically absorbs light....

Guess you don't have any common sense? Master Roshi with a power level of 312 was able to INSTANTLY destroy the moon. Goku later with a power level in the thousands shot a Kamehameha at Radditz who OUTRAN the attack. Think...

Who cares about the damn math.........

Goku as a child in early Dragonball was able to move "FASTER" than lightning. Goku only got stronger as the series went on and immediately broke the light barrier later on. Any moron wit half a brain cell can see that.

Yakkon's absorption powers specifically absorbed light!!!! light cannot escape his sucktion powers!!!

DBZ= FTL fighting.